Be honest. This is Islam.
Not it is not. And I am honest.
At the very least you know there is extreme ikhtilaf on this issue.
"Ikhtilaf" is a healthy thing. People are not supposed to be a herd of sheeps.
The Ghazalian position probably wouldn't apply to Kim's family in the eyes of the scholar-gods because they had a chance to see Islam in action and learn it from Kim's presence. The Ghazalian opinion means for those who have no real life contact with Muslims and all they know of Islam is rumours or one-sided information (as if Robert Spencer was their only interaction with Islam).
Yes.
On top of that, there are a lot of scholars that reject the Ghazalian position, saying that in the modern age, people have the means and opportunity to learn about Islam without the presence of a Muslim neighbour or relative. There is the internet; the Quran is in every bookstore; many big cities or countries have Islamic shows or satellite channels; there are mosques in every major western city and many other smaller cities and towns.
They are entitled to their opinions of course. The Quran says that only those who rejected the genuine message of Islam would be going to Hell.
Kim had very valid Islamic reasons for this to be a fear for her, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with something that meant so much to her emotionally being the gateway for her to examine or re-examine her faith.
No she did not have any valid Islamic reasons. It was all a confusion on her part and learning Islam from average, traditional Muslims.
When non-Muslims use an emotional experience or reaction to learn about Islam and embrace it, Muslims praise them.
No they do not. At least I do not.
Yes like how sperm comes from between the ribs and stuff.
The Quran does not say that sperm comes from between the ribs. That is an old charge and Muslims have debunked it over and over. You seem very out-dated with your views on Islam.
Did you actually just say that the name calling and death threats and the conspiracy theories created about this girl were justified b/c a few Muslim sisters claim that she was rude to them?
No. I am saying that she was rude to Muslims who appraoched her. She insulted them which does not reflect very well on her character.
It is understandable that people called her a cock sucking whore, an agent of zionism, and threatened to kill her?
Not it is not. I am talking about people who got merely upset with her decision.
Look, converts to Islam, especially from Christianity in third world countries, receive similar treatment and threats. It is not unique to Muslims at all.
I'm sure not. I'm 100% sure that there would be no death threats, conspiracy theories about the "evil Jewz" or haram terms like "cock sucking whore" thrown at that person. I know this b/c we have had Muslim members, we've had doubting Muslims who decided to stay in Islam and no o ne ever reacted towards that person the way you are justifying the actions of Muslims towards this girl.
1. I am not justifying any of these actions. I only meant that some members would be upset.
2. "evil Jewz"? Well some Jews always banish Muslims as "evil" and "terroristic".
3. You are generalizing here. Many Muslims were nice to her but she was rude to them.
And so the inability of some Muslims to control their emotions justifies what they are doing to her. Got it.
No you did not get it, I did not say anything like that and I never justified those actions.
Anyone who has to threaten someone with torture in order to get obsequiousness from them is desperate. And a despot.
God does not threaten people with torture to get worship from them. People are sent to Hell because they rejected their Creator which is am immeasurable sin.
"And as for those who deny the truth - verily, God does not stand in need of anything in all the worlds." [3:97]
God is not desperate for your worship or obedience. He does not need it. He only demands it becuse it is His right.
The Owner of the world cannot be a despot. God is the Owner of the world because He created it. Therefore He must have unlimited authority. Nothing wronmg with that.
Happily, this jealous, insecure deity
You are confusing between God and Yahweh.
doesn't exist.
He does exist, unfortunately for you.
And my parents deserve my respect, but they don't deserve obedience. I'm an adult, not a robot.
But God is far greater than your parents, with all the respect. So respecting God entails worshipping Him.
So you are a progressive Muslim who doesn't believe in hijab being fard? That's interesting.
Yes I am. Thank you.
I personally know quite a few Muslims who do drink alcohol.
Yes I do know some of them too. Does not make it right.
LOL, this is always what converts are told when they object to the rape of slaves,
Why the "LOL"?
Islam forbids slavery.
Rape? be serious.
the killing of Jews,
Islam does not command the "killing of Jews". Fighting in Islam is only accepted in self defense.
and the arcane lifestyle they are pressured to adopt.
I am not sure what arcane lifestyle you are talking about. My life is far from arcane. You probably converted to some talibanistic "Islam".
Are you not a sunni Muslim, perhaps? You do not accept the hadith? For the hadith are clear on the preference of which foot to use and if one is honest, one knows that this translates, in reality, to extreme peer pressure to Muslims to act on these "preferences" of allah against the left hand and left foot so that they become fard.
Yes I do not accept the Hadith because they are inauthentic and were invented hundreds of years after the death of Muhammad. The Quran does not order such trivial matters.
Now, now, you should stop. You and I and every person on this forum knows very well the volumes and volumes of literature and the hadiths that rule that a person who does not pray all five is committing kufr, and that it is a major sin not to pray the five in their time. Honesty - isn't that a supposed virtue in Islam? Don't be ashamed of your religion. This is what Islam - or at least the dominant sunni version of it - says, and people should take it or leave it, not pretend that it is something that it isn't, so that they can gather as many numbers as possible.
You are very hysterical and seem to have deep hate for Islam. Anyway. I am never ashamed of my religion. If I were I would not have come here in the first place. I am proud of being a Muslim. I am saying that genuinely.
Prayer is a virtue. I never denied. I only said that those who cannopt pray 5 times a day, or find it so tiresome, can pray at their convenience. That is what the Quran says. The "Hadiths" and "volumes and volumes of literature" only represent the views of their medioeval authors. If Sunnis would like to believe these "Hadiths" and "volumes and volumes of literature" then that is their problem, not Islam's.
Yes, but the difference is that atheism doesn't call for the execution of those who decide to believe in invisible friends,
Islam does not call for the execution of those who decide to believe in superstitious materialism. Verse after the verse the Quran guarantees freedom of religion and thought.
"There shall be no coercion in matters of faith. Distinct has now become the right way from [the way of] error" [2:256]
"And say: "The truth [has now come] from your Sustainer: let, then, him who wills, believe in it, and let him who wills, reject it." [18:29]
"Unto you, your moral law, and unto me, mine !" [109:6]
and atheists don't utter death threats against those people or call them cock sucking whores or agents of Zionism.
You probably have never heard of Communists.
You're more likely to hear "Oh, how unreasonable. Pity, that."
And when Muslims say these same thing to those who reject their religion you launch your crusade here on them. Double standards?
Regards,
Topic: Famous Muslim to infamous Murtad