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Theme Changer

 Topic: Did things backwards, but new here

 (Read 3907 times)
  • 1« Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Did things backwards, but new here
     OP - November 21, 2009, 12:39 AM
    I've already posted on the thread about crucifixes in Italian public schools, but I thought I should do a little introduction here.

    I am not Muslim or an ex-Muslim; I am an atheist and was raised Catholic. I married a Jewish man who, like me, is now an agnostic/atheist.  I tutor an Iranian Muslim woman in English and my son (age 21) is dating a Muslim girl (age 20).  We are in the US.  The girlfriend seems to be a very nice girl (I've only met her a few times) and knew my son in high school.  Her father is Pakistani and her mother is American but converted to Islam before she had her only child.  They lived in England until Sally (son's girlfriend) was 3 and then they moved to the US.  Here's the part I don't like: the father is, according to my son (who gets his info from mother and daughter) bi-polar and kind of a jerk.  He has been very insulting to his daughter ("you're a whore" etc.) for nothing.  My son is not Muslim and is, in fact, nominally Jewish (although actually also an atheist), so both mother and daughter will not let the father know about him.  Right now, the father is out of the country for about 18 months.

    The whole situation is distressing to me.  But I guess there's nothing to worry about at least until the father gets home. . . chances are they will break-up as a natural course of things before then anyway.  But I don't like keeping secrets from people, although I guess I see the necessity of this one.  lipsrsealed Huh?

    So I guess my point is: isn't it really stupid and awful how much religion gets in the way of what would otherwise be a perfectly normal thing?   
  • Re: Did things backwards, but new here
     Reply #1 - November 21, 2009, 12:45 AM
    welcome fellow exchristian! I am also new here.

    It is not the way you live your life that is important, it is how well you enjoy it that matters.
  • Re: Did things backwards, but new here
     Reply #2 - November 21, 2009, 12:47 AM
    Yeah, it is. And welcome to the forum. Smiley
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Did things backwards, but new here
     Reply #3 - November 21, 2009, 12:49 AM
    Welcome Lilith Smiley

    Cool username. I *loved* finding out about "Lilith", "Adam"'s first wife, when I first found about her several years ago.  Wink

    As for your son's relationship, I think what you are anticipating is probably what will end up happening, given the other factors. It's good that he has such supportive parents, not everyone has that.
     cheers
    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
  • Re: Did things backwards, but new here
     Reply #4 - November 21, 2009, 11:46 AM
    Thanks for the welcome, everyone  Smiley

    Allat, "Lilith" is a name fraught with interesting and sinister connotations, isn't it?  I skimmed your link--I had no idea there was such a history, only a vague idea that she was Adam's first wife and something about being a demon. 
  • Re: Did things backwards, but new here
     Reply #5 - November 21, 2009, 11:52 AM
    Ninurta, I have to say that I never really felt terribly Christian, even when I was a child.  I don't think I ever really, truly believed without question.  In second grade Sunday school, when the nun told us that unbaptized babies would never go to heaven, I remember feeling quite horrified at the unfairness of it.  Even to a 7 year old, that seemed too unfair to accept without question.  So my esteem for the church was eroding already.  By the time I was 13, I had had it and never set foot in a church again (well, except for friend's weddings and such).
  • Re: Did things backwards, but new here
     Reply #6 - November 21, 2009, 12:27 PM
    Quote from: Lilith on November 21, 2009, 11:52 AM
    Ninurta, I have to say that I never really felt terribly Christian, even when I was a child.  I don't think I ever really, truly believed without question.  In second grade Sunday school, when the nun told us that unbaptized babies would never go to heaven, I remember feeling quite horrified at the unfairness of it.  Even to a 7 year old, that seemed too unfair to accept without question.  So my esteem for the church was eroding already.  By the time I was 13, I had had it and never set foot in a church again (well, except for friend's weddings and such).


    I think for most Christians there is difficulty first with the idea of original sin, then followed by the trinity/divinity of Jesus with most likely information on how the new testament was collated was the nail in the coffin. For me it was pretty much in that order.
    "It's just a job. Grass grows, birds fly, waves pound the sand. I beat people up." - Muhammad Ali
  • Re: Did things backwards, but new here
     Reply #7 - November 21, 2009, 12:53 PM
    Quote from: Lilith on November 21, 2009, 12:39 AM
    So I guess my point is: isn't it really stupid and awful how much religion gets in the way of what would otherwise be a perfectly normal thing?   



    Yes it is, it's also pretty stupid that one can define someone as 'nominally Jewish' and an atheist??? So, someone who believes and doesnt believe at the same time? Sounds pretty nominally wacky.
    Ha Ha.
  • Re: Did things backwards, but new here
     Reply #8 - November 21, 2009, 01:06 PM
    I probably should have said "culturally Jewish".  

    Do you usually sound so hostile?
  • Re: Did things backwards, but new here
     Reply #9 - November 21, 2009, 01:50 PM
    Welcome to the forum lillith. Afro
  • Re: Did things backwards, but new here
     Reply #10 - November 21, 2009, 02:08 PM
    Quote from: Lilith on November 21, 2009, 11:52 AM
    Ninurta, I have to say that I never really felt terribly Christian, even when I was a child.  I don't think I ever really, truly believed without question.  In second grade Sunday school, when the nun told us that unbaptized babies would never go to heaven, I remember feeling quite horrified at the unfairness of it.  Even to a 7 year old, that seemed too unfair to accept without question.  So my esteem for the church was eroding already.  By the time I was 13, I had had it and never set foot in a church again (well, except for friend's weddings and such).

    To be honest with you, that's common, I was the same way. I meant as in practicing christian.
    It is not the way you live your life that is important, it is how well you enjoy it that matters.
  • Re: Did things backwards, but new here
     Reply #11 - November 21, 2009, 09:27 PM
    Quote from: Lilith on November 21, 2009, 01:06 PM
    I probably should have said "culturally Jewish".  

    Do you usually sound so hostile?

    He frequently does.  Wink
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Did things backwards, but new here
     Reply #12 - November 22, 2009, 12:17 AM
    Quote from: ninurta on November 21, 2009, 02:08 PM
    To be honest with you, that's common, I was the same way. I meant as in practicing christian.


    Right.  Yeah, I stopped going to church when I was 13.  I came from a long line of Catholics on both sides of my family--my uncle was a priest and I had a cousin who almost became a nun but stopped just short of her final vows. 
  • Re: Did things backwards, but new here
     Reply #13 - November 22, 2009, 12:18 AM
    Quote from: osmanthus on November 21, 2009, 09:27 PM
    He frequently does.  Wink


    Oh, okay.  Then I won't take it personally  Wink
  • Re: Did things backwards, but new here
     Reply #14 - November 22, 2009, 12:23 AM
    Quote from: kaiwai on November 21, 2009, 12:27 PM
    I think for most Christians there is difficulty first with the idea of original sin, then followed by the trinity/divinity of Jesus with most likely information on how the new testament was collated was the nail in the coffin. For me it was pretty much in that order.


    Right you are.  The whole concept of original sin is just bonkers  Roll Eyes Smiley  And then the whole "body and blood of Christ" thing for communion is pretty woo too  idiot2
  • Re: Did things backwards, but new here
     Reply #15 - November 22, 2009, 12:33 AM
    Tom Lehrer's "Vatican Rag"  dance

    "Get in line in that processional,
     step into that small confessional,
     there the guy who's got religion'll
     tell you if your sin's original.

     If it is, try playing it safer,
     drink the wine and chew the wafer.
     2, 4, 6, 8,
     time to transubstantiate."
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Did things backwards, but new here
     Reply #16 - November 22, 2009, 12:34 AM
    Tom Lehrer is the shit.  cool2

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3f72CTDe4-0
    I chose to get circumcised at 17, don't tell me I never believed.
  • Re: Did things backwards, but new here
     Reply #17 - November 22, 2009, 12:47 AM
     Grin  Oh, gosh, that brings back memories of kneeling in church during communion--it seemed interminable.  I would usually get nauseous and feel like I was going to faint.   
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