The Climate Crisis--Do you Agree?

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The Climate Crisis--Do you Agree?
OP - December 12, 2009, 05:51 AM

I've recently seen two documentaries regarding the Climate Crisis and Global Warming. They both made some pretty good points. As far this topic goes, I am frankly indifferent of taking any position simply because I do not know enough to take a solid position as of right now. I am however, interested in hearing your opinion/arguments either for, or against this topic. After our discussion, I'm hoping to have a better understanding of this issue.

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Re: The Climate Crisis--Do you Agree?
Reply #1 - December 12, 2009, 07:08 AM

I'm frankly quite indifferent to it myself and also not very knowledgable. There is just so much hype coming from the left and environmentalists that I can't trust them at the same time I can't trust the right. For a scientific issues it's just too politicized.

Also.. I work in heavily oil dependent Alberta and my current projects involve mainly oilfield sites... so people here are generally pretty much against any sort of greenhouse caps imposed on Canada because it directly effects our industry and this province. And if it comes down to my job and global warming.. well you know...

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Re: The Climate Crisis--Do you Agree?
Reply #2 - December 12, 2009, 08:27 AM

Human beings probably are warming the glode, but i don't like the notion of the state expanding it's sphere of influence to "fix" the problem.
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Re: The Climate Crisis--Do you Agree?
Reply #3 - December 12, 2009, 10:49 AM

The whole global warming scheme just reminds me of the way the Catholic Church used to operate. It uses scaremongering and even lying at times to scare people about a coming Armageddon (someone admitted this on the BBC), it uses our ability to feel guilt, by saying that we are killing polar bears when we drive and stuff (the way the church would make people feel guilty about masturbation), you have indulgences in a different form (instead of praying to compensate for sins, you know pay extra for them). Then there is the forcing people to buy certain products and not others and the luxurious limos seen at Copenhagen and travel expenses by air to promote 'Age of stupid' (when allegedly flying was a major cause of global warming) reminds me of the way the cardinals and the bishops were. And like the Church they love parting people from their wealth.

In short I am not going to deny that something is happening, I am just unsure about what it is that is happening and who to trust. According to some studies, the changes in climate are apparently normal fluctuations. The eco loons and the whole green church are not to be trusted it seems, from the way they operate.

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Re: The Climate Crisis--Do you Agree?
Reply #4 - December 12, 2009, 11:04 AM

It most certainly is and evidently is a problem. Even those who deny it admit that it is occurring, but say that it is natural and not because of man.

Another more imminent threat to mankind however, is the disappearance of bees, which will be causing a problem in the near future.

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Re: The Climate Crisis--Do you Agree?
Reply #5 - December 12, 2009, 12:07 PM

Israeli scientists came up with a vaccine that protect the bees from the virus that was wiping them out. We are saved for now.

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Re: The Climate Crisis--Do you Agree?
Reply #6 - December 12, 2009, 12:14 PM

A lecturer at uni said 99.9% of scientists believe it is a serious issue, just like 99.9% believe in evolution.

Hence why politicians seems to be doing things the general population might think is excessive. The Economist thinks there is a problem but the research should be continuous and just as important as actions being taken.

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Re: The Climate Crisis--Do you Agree?
Reply #7 - December 12, 2009, 12:33 PM

It is serious, no doubt about that. The question is whether it is all man made.. I do think that we contributed.

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Re: The Climate Crisis--Do you Agree?
Reply #8 - December 12, 2009, 01:40 PM

I'm quite sure we have contributed to climate change but I have doubts that it is anywhere near the scales the climatologists claim.

Quote from: aliadiere on December 12, 2009, 11:04 AM
It most certainly is and evidently is a problem. Even those who deny it admit that it is occurring, but say that it is natural and not because of man.

Another more imminent threat to mankind however, is the disappearance of bees, which will be causing a problem in the near future.

No it wont, that's just another exaggerated story. NewScientist debunked this myth:

Quote
The first tenet - that bees are responsible for the production of a large fraction of our food - is simply untrue. Pollinators are important for many crops, but it is a myth that humanity would starve without bees.

About 70 per cent of the 115 most productive crops, including most fruits and oilseeds, are animal-pollinated. These account for nearly 2.5 billion tonnes of food a year, about a third of global agricultural production. However, few of these crops depend on animal pollination completely, owing largely to their capacity for self-pollination

Source: http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20427316.800-the-truth-about-the-disappearing-honeybees.html

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Re: The Climate Crisis--Do you Agree?
Reply #9 - December 12, 2009, 05:24 PM

Quote from: ras111 on December 12, 2009, 12:33 PM
It is serious, no doubt about that. The question is whether it is all man made.. I do think that we contributed.

+1. I do think that the climate changes are normal fluctuations of the Earth. Granted that we have been keeping track of Earth's climate for only about couple of centuries or so. The fluctuations may work in a larger span--like for example the whole polar shift happening every 100,000 years (or more?).

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Re: The Climate Crisis--Do you Agree?
Reply #10 - December 12, 2009, 06:22 PM

Yes. Climate changes periodically. Naturally.

But this current one is not a natural one. It's man made. That is what evidence points to.

Life on Earth will I am sure will survive climate changes as it has done for millions of years.

But humanity will struggle and suffer.

So it's our own interest to act in way that reduces this suffering.

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Re: The Climate Crisis--Do you Agree?
Reply #11 - December 12, 2009, 07:12 PM

Nut job conspiracy theorists

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NUutE-82vtc&feature=sub

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Re: The Climate Crisis--Do you Agree?
Reply #12 - December 12, 2009, 07:27 PM

the problem is that our affect on climate is causing a change over time. We won't greatly see these affects till couple of thousand years but that is the thing. It will affect our grandchildren farther down the centuries. Do we live the future mankind with a Sh*t hole planet?
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Re: The Climate Crisis--Do you Agree?
Reply #13 - December 12, 2009, 08:24 PM

Quote from: ras111 on December 12, 2009, 10:49 AM
In short I am not going to deny that something is happening, I am just unsure about what it is that is happening and who to trust. According to some studies, the changes in climate are apparently normal fluctuations. The eco loons and the whole green church are not to be trusted it seems, from the way they operate.

It's got nothing to do with "eco loons". They may jump on the bandwagion but they aren't the main drivers.

It has everything to do with the best science we have available today. According to that there is more than one component, but the anthropogenic component is the major one. The reason there is so much opposition to these findings is simple: people don't want to believe it.

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Re: The Climate Crisis--Do you Agree?
Reply #14 - December 12, 2009, 10:01 PM

Quote from: _truth_ on December 12, 2009, 07:27 PM
the problem is that our affect on climate is causing a change over time. We won't greatly see these affects till couple of thousand years but that is the thing. It will affect our grandchildren farther down the centuries. Do we live the future mankind with a Sh*t hole planet?

The evidence is it's happening right now.

We should act on it.

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Re: The Climate Crisis--Do you Agree?
Reply #15 - December 12, 2009, 11:21 PM

Quote from: Rubaiyat on December 12, 2009, 10:01 PM
The evidence is it's happening right now.

We should act on it.

yes its happening now, but not a greater scale than it will if we don't take care of it now
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Re: The Climate Crisis--Do you Agree?
Reply #16 - December 13, 2009, 01:06 PM

The most decisive factor we leave out in this is the bloody obvious one we cant never ignore:

The Sun!

Solar activity has always been a factor in climate change throughout Earth's 4.5 billion years existence.

Look the earth is warming up, we dont know if its just us or nature or both, but it is an issue worth to be taken seriously to at least mitigate any problematic consequences wherever it comes.

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Re: The Climate Crisis--Do you Agree?
Reply #17 - December 13, 2009, 01:50 PM

atheist.pk: The same scientists from Duke university who discovered the Sun's effect on global warming, also stated that it is not significant to mitigate the effect of humans on global warming.

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Re: The Climate Crisis--Do you Agree?
Reply #18 - December 13, 2009, 09:28 PM

Quote from: atheist.pk on December 13, 2009, 01:06 PM
The most decisive factor we leave out in this is the bloody obvious one we cant never ignore:

The Sun!

Solar activity has always been a factor in climate change throughout Earth's 4.5 billion years existence.

Look the earth is warming up, we dont know if its just us or nature or both, but it is an issue worth to be taken seriously to at least mitigate any problematic consequences wherever it comes.

Actually we do know, and we know what the relative proportions are from the various factors. As I said earlier, the anthropogenic factors are the main ones driving the current changes. If people don't want to believe that because it makes them uncomfortable then too bad.

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Re: The Climate Crisis--Do you Agree?
Reply #19 - December 16, 2009, 01:17 AM
An interesting film on this topic:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jqxENMKaeCU
(linking is disabled, just copy/paste in your browser to watch on youtube)
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