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 Topic: What is the most secular & sexually liberal country in the world?

 (Read 47623 times)
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  • Re: What is the most secular & sexually liberal country in the world?
     Reply #90 - December 23, 2009, 07:04 AM
    Most secular would probably be China or Japan in the sense that religion plays no role in the public and political arenas
    Most irreligious, Sweden (83%) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irreligion_by_country
    Most sexually liberal, Netherlands? France? Spain? Actually, if you think about it the UK should make it to the top 5

    BTW, if you check the map in the Wikipedia article you will find that Iraq is the least religious in the Middle East which I, as an Iraqi, believe is somewhat true. Having in lived in both Jordan and Egypt for about a year, I definitely felt that religion was more "in the air" so to speak in those countries than it is in Iraq. For instance, Hijab is much less prevalent in Iraq specially before the war.
  • Re: What is the most secular & sexually liberal country in the world?
     Reply #91 - December 23, 2009, 09:10 AM
    I think Saddam was secular which might be why iraq is the least religious in the mideast
  • Re: What is the most secular & sexually liberal country in the world?
     Reply #92 - December 23, 2009, 09:23 AM
    I really doubt Saddam was secular. I think Iraqis themselves used to be way more secular before he came to power.
  • Re: What is the most secular & sexually liberal country in the world?
     Reply #93 - December 23, 2009, 09:52 AM
    Quote from: Iraqi Atheist on December 23, 2009, 07:04 AM
    Most secular would probably be China or Japan in the sense that religion plays no role in the public and political arenas
    Most irreligious, Sweden (83%) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irreligion_by_country
    Most sexually liberal, Netherlands? France? Spain? Actually, if you think about it the UK should make it to the top 5

    BTW, if you check the map in the Wikipedia article you will find that Iraq is the least religious in the Middle East which I, as an Iraqi, believe is somewhat true. Having in lived in both Jordan and Egypt for about a year, I definitely felt that religion was more "in the air" so to speak in those countries than it is in Iraq. For instance, Hijab is much less prevalent in Iraq specially before the war.


    The problem I have with the religious question from wikipedia is that it doesn't include the issue of whether the people surveyed consider themselves spiritual but non-religious. In the case of the United States, there is  a growing number who are atheist but there is an even larger move by people towards more non-denominationalism.
    "It's just a job. Grass grows, birds fly, waves pound the sand. I beat people up." - Muhammad Ali
  • Re: What is the most secular & sexually liberal country in the world?
     Reply #94 - December 23, 2009, 09:58 AM
    Quote from: BlackDog on December 23, 2009, 09:23 AM
    I really doubt Saddam was secular. I think Iraqis themselves used to be way more secular before he came to power.


    Saddam was definitely secular, judging from some of his activities.  At least in his rise to power, he was.
    "Modern man's great illusion has been to convince himself that of all that has gone before he represents the zenith of human accomplishment, but can't summon the mental powers to read anything more demanding than emoticons. Fascinating. "

    One very horny Turk I met on the net.
  • Re: What is the most secular & sexually liberal country in the world?
     Reply #95 - December 23, 2009, 11:13 AM
    Quote from: BlackDog on December 23, 2009, 09:23 AM
    I really doubt Saddam was secular. I think Iraqis themselves used to be way more secular before he came to power.

    He was secular. Period. There are even videos of him and his brother Sabawi telling off Baath Part Members for praying in the mosque and being too religious. Plus any Christian in Iraq can tell you that they had imperfect-yet-decent freedoms under his regime.
    The only exception is his "faith campaign" which he initiated in the 90s which included introducing compulsory Islamic Education in schools.

    At any rate, he was a ruthless Stalinesque dictator. I hope he suffered a painful death.
  • Re: What is the most secular & sexually liberal country in the world?
     Reply #96 - December 23, 2009, 11:18 AM
    he banned the internet as well, you were saying? then how did a lot of the businesses function?
  • Re: What is the most secular & sexually liberal country in the world?
     Reply #97 - December 23, 2009, 11:27 AM
    Quote from: liberated on December 23, 2009, 11:18 AM
    he banned the internet as well, you were saying? then how did a lot of the businesses function?

    What business? the country was a joke. He banned private internet use (except for a few closely-monitored heavily-censored government-run cafes). He also banned Satellite TV and Mobile phones. He banned foreign banks and credit cards so Iraq was a cash nation. The GDP Per Capita was $800 as compared to about $40,000 in the UK and $10,000 in Mexico for instance.
  • Re: What is the most secular & sexually liberal country in the world?
     Reply #98 - December 23, 2009, 12:11 PM
    Do you consider the invasion by america to be a good decision then?
  • Re: What is the most secular & sexually liberal country in the world?
     Reply #99 - December 24, 2009, 12:20 AM
    It's not that simple. We all know what America's intentions were. All Iraqis knew this but most of them considered it a lesser evil. So yes at the beginning I did want the US to invade and during the first year after the war I did support the occupation. My father thought that we were going to be "the next Dubai". We knew there was a price for getting rid of Saddam but we didn't know it was gonna be this steep.
    The war was completely botched up. There's a great documentary "No End in Sight". If anybody has an interest in studying how the war was conducted. A fiasco is too weak a word to describe it.
    Some people benefited from the war. A school teacher used to earn $5 a month while now they make around $800. Same for all government employees. The standards of life have improved dramatically. However, around a quarter of a million died; millions  were displaced like myself. I don't think they would tell you it was a "good decision".

    Looking back, I probably would've still wanted the US to invade. 
  • Re: What is the most secular & sexually liberal country in the world?
     Reply #100 - December 24, 2009, 12:23 AM
    Funny how I thought the exact same thing and I live in the West. Damn he was a piece of shit wasn't he.

    I'm not sure what to think now though, looking back I mean.
  • Re: What is the most secular & sexually liberal country in the world?
     Reply #101 - December 24, 2009, 12:27 AM
    Have things really improved there though and calmed down now or is it still Chaos? Is oil revenue flowing in yet?
    Take the Pakman challenge and convince me there is a God and Mo was not a murdering, power hungry sex maniac.
  • Re: What is the most secular & sexually liberal country in the world?
     Reply #102 - December 24, 2009, 12:58 AM
    Quote from: pakman on December 24, 2009, 12:27 AM
    Have things really improved there though and calmed down now or is it still Chaos? Is oil revenue flowing in yet?

    Oh yeah there's no denying it. Apart from security, every aspect of life has improved or at least that's the way I see it. GDP Per has risen about 500%-600%. Real Median Income adjusted for inflation has also exponentially increased. Internet access is very high specially in urban areas. There are now more than 12 million mobile phone users (population is 30 million). Cinemas and theaters are being opened. There are huge investment and construction projects.
  • Re: What is the most secular & sexually liberal country in the world?
     Reply #103 - December 24, 2009, 01:03 AM
    Hoorayy
    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: What is the most secular & sexually liberal country in the world?
     Reply #104 - December 24, 2009, 01:50 AM
    And what's the security situation like these days?
  • Re: What is the most secular & sexually liberal country in the world?
     Reply #105 - December 24, 2009, 02:17 AM
    Shit
  • Re: What is the most secular & sexually liberal country in the world?
     Reply #106 - December 24, 2009, 02:23 AM
    @Iraqi Atheist

    Did Shia kill Sunnis as well? Suicide attacks I mean. Or by other means. And I'm referring to civilian casualties.
  • Re: What is the most secular & sexually liberal country in the world?
     Reply #107 - December 24, 2009, 02:44 AM
    Oh yes they did and in large numbers. The killing of Shiites by Sunnis did happen and vice versa. We were forced to abandon our house because we were Shiites living in a Sunni neighborhood. One morning we found an envelope in our driveway containing a bullet shell and a note saying "you Shiite Murtadoon get out of this neighborhood or you'll face you inevitable destiny, death". Seriously.

    However, the targeting of Sunnis was much more organized and was committed partly by government elements. The media reported it as gunmen disguised as police when in fact they were in most cases actual police. I would guess that for every Shiite killed, 2-3 Sunnis were killed (I'm talking about pure sectarian violence not the total death count)

    Not to mention ID killings when people were executed simply for having a Sunni/ Shiite first name or surname. For about a year nobody named Ali or Hussein would've dared to enter Adhamiyah and vice versa. I personally lost a friend this way. He had a Sunni name and his minibus was ambushed in Hay-AlAmil.
    It peaked in late 06 and the first half of 07 and then gradually disappeared. Right now ID Killings are virtually non-existent.
  • Re: What is the most secular & sexually liberal country in the world?
     Reply #108 - December 24, 2009, 04:06 AM
    Murtadoon? Is that an actual word?
  • Re: What is the most secular & sexually liberal country in the world?
     Reply #109 - December 24, 2009, 04:08 AM
    Quote from: liberated on December 24, 2009, 04:06 AM
    Murtadoon? Is that an actual word?

    Yes. It's an Arabic word. The plural of Murtad which means apostate in Arabic. Some Sunnis (I would argue most of them) consider Shiites apostates who are practicing a flawed version of Islam .
  • Re: What is the most secular & sexually liberal country in the world?
     Reply #110 - December 24, 2009, 08:21 AM
    @Iraqi Atheist
    By that logic all non-Sunni muslims are going to hell as well? For shirk? According to Shia, objectively, are all non-Shia muslims and non-muslims going to hell? Reading the quran, it seems anybody who is not muslim is pretty much going to hell. Even if you believe in a monotheistic god, which frankly, I think most religious people do, whatever their religion. The "There can only be one God" argument.

    But I have never been taught that all non-Shia go to hell- I have never actually been taught that non-muslims go to hell. For example, Ghandi who was a Hindu, as in adherent to Hinduism is well-respected amongst the Shia, maybe because of his struggle and maybe, mostly, because he respected Hussein and Hassan. But the man was most definitely not a Muslim, in fact I read that his son became a muslim and Ghandi objected, his son later reverted back to Hinduism. So if you are Sikh, or if you believe in a God, the God, then you go to heaven? But this can't be right? If so, why are people asked to convert when marrying a muslim person? And interchanging God with Allah is not correct. You are usually corrected, and asked to use God's "name" Allah.

    I used to believe this was Al-Lah the God, ie God. But I think that's wrong? It is in fact Allah. Not a word to be broken up? And Il-lah is spelled differently? Please correct me on this, it has always been confusing.
  • Re: What is the most secular & sexually liberal country in the world?
     Reply #111 - December 24, 2009, 08:32 AM
    Quote from: BlackDog on December 24, 2009, 08:21 AM
    The "There can only be one God" argument.


    Nah, you're thinking of Highlander. Although both do involve choppin off heads and shit.
    fuck you
  • Re: What is the most secular & sexually liberal country in the world?
     Reply #112 - December 24, 2009, 08:33 AM
    lol  Cheesy
  • Re: What is the most secular & sexually liberal country in the world?
     Reply #113 - December 24, 2009, 09:27 AM
    most secular most sexually opened Huh?

    I'ed say Palestine every one here is shouting at god and getting fucket   grin12

    on a more serious level, the USSR formally and what is now Russia seem to have  good prospects
    japan is open and secular also and definitely can compete for the title


  • Re: What is the most secular & sexually liberal country in the world?
     Reply #114 - December 24, 2009, 09:29 AM
    lmao @ I'ed say Palestine every one here is shouting at god and getting fucket   
  • Re: What is the most secular & sexually liberal country in the world?
     Reply #115 - December 27, 2009, 05:30 AM
    Quote from: BlackDog
    @Iraqi Atheist
    By that logic all non-Sunni muslims are going to hell as well? For shirk? According to Shia, objectively, are all non-Shia muslims and non-muslims going to hell? Reading the quran, it seems anybody who is not muslim is pretty much going to hell. Even if you believe in a monotheistic god, which frankly, I think most religious people do, whatever their religion. The "There can only be one God" argument.

    But I have never been taught that all non-Shia go to hell- I have never actually been taught that non-muslims go to hell. For example, Ghandi who was a Hindu, as in adherent to Hinduism is well-respected amongst the Shia, maybe because of his struggle and maybe, mostly, because he respected Hussein and Hassan. But the man was most definitely not a Muslim, in fact I read that his son became a muslim and Ghandi objected, his son later reverted back to Hinduism. So if you are Sikh, or if you believe in a God, the God, then you go to heaven? But this can't be right? If so, why are people asked to convert when marrying a muslim person? And interchanging God with Allah is not correct. You are usually corrected, and asked to use God's "name" Allah.

    I used to believe this was Al-Lah the God, ie God. But I think that's wrong? It is in fact Allah. Not a word to be broken up? And Il-lah is spelled differently? Please correct me on this, it has always been confusing.

    Sorry just noticed your post. I don't know about the Quran's take on non-Muslims nor do I want to. It's a book written by men so it's bound to be self-contradictory.
    As for Sunni opinion on Shia, as I told you many consider them Heretics or Apostates. That's what Bin Laden has repeatedly said. I have personally heard a Friday Prayers Qhutba by a Sunni Sheikh who was asked about Shia and literally said "Most likely they will go to hell but I pray otherwise".
  • Re: What is the most secular & sexually liberal country in the world?
     Reply #116 - December 27, 2009, 09:53 AM
    Many sunnis have also told me that shiites are 'extremely misguided' or 'false' to say the least.
    "Modern man's great illusion has been to convince himself that of all that has gone before he represents the zenith of human accomplishment, but can't summon the mental powers to read anything more demanding than emoticons. Fascinating. "

    One very horny Turk I met on the net.
  • Re: What is the most secular & sexually liberal country in the world?
     Reply #117 - December 28, 2009, 04:37 AM
    Many ideas of secularism posted here scare me a lot. My country has countless problems and we are definitely very conservative - a lot more than people think. But I'm sometimes very glad to live here. My hijabi friend can go to university and nobody cares what she is wearing, my jewish friend can come with his kippah on and no-one cares, catholics wearing their crosses, christians going to african religion meetings... nobody cares. I prefer living in a relaxed society than one who controls people's clothing. That sounds very weird to me.

    And Japan is not really that liberal as it seems. Japanese society's views on sex are very different than Western ones for sure, but it's neither as liberal nor as oppressive as it may seem to an unattentive eye.

    also, it really varies in what exactly "sexually liberal" means to any of us. It's really a big "depends".




    on a further note: the iraqi insight was really interesting. It's nice to know these things we don't hear often through the eyes of someone who experienced it all.
    tea and cake or death!!!

    "Dear Josh, we came by to fuck you, but you were not home. Therefore... you are gay."  Ghost World
  • Re: What is the most secular & sexually liberal country in the world?
     Reply #118 - December 28, 2009, 09:34 PM
    Holland and Sweden.
    "The ideal tyranny is that which is ignorantly self-administered by its victims. The most perfect slaves are, therefore, those which blissfully and unawaredly enslave themselves."
  • Re: What is the most secular & sexually liberal country in the world?
     Reply #119 - December 28, 2009, 09:36 PM
    I think it also depends a lot on the individual and his/her views but in general I get the impression Holland is by far the most secular and sexually liberal country in the world.
    "The ideal tyranny is that which is ignorantly self-administered by its victims. The most perfect slaves are, therefore, those which blissfully and unawaredly enslave themselves."
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