Muslimeen lays the smack down on Darwin

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Re: Muslimeen lays the smack down on Darwin
Reply #60 - December 26, 2009, 02:46 AM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al_Wala%27_Wal_Bara%27

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Re: Muslimeen lays the smack down on Darwin
Reply #61 - December 26, 2009, 02:49 AM

This mean keeping everything under wraps? Never to air your dirty laundry? Or your neighbor's for that matter.
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Re: Muslimeen lays the smack down on Darwin
Reply #62 - December 26, 2009, 02:52 AM

Quote from: Rubaiyat on December 25, 2009, 10:54 PM
It's propaganda. But it's accurate.

Propaganda of dawahganda, LOL. It's too bad there's no one out there who has a similar set up for the most outrageous statements of the Gush Enumium or other far-right wing groups to add that to the conversation, but I think that we know - or at least those of us who lived in the region, where you can pick up Israeli TV along with the full gamut of 300 Arab channels - that realistically, the Israelis tend to NOT broadcast this type of stuff on their channels, where as Arabsat or Nilesat are saturated with it. Does that mean people in Israeli society aren't saying it? I would think not, but I think what it would mean is that these same types of statements - say about HIV or about Palestinians or about science or whatever - aren't acceptable in the mainstream Israeli society as they are in mainstream Arab society. I think that is the difference. Of course MEMRI's mainly showing a very bad side of Muslims, but then again, we have MCB and CAIR and a ton of liberals to show us all the wonderful side of Islam too.

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Re: Muslimeen lays the smack down on Darwin
Reply #63 - December 26, 2009, 03:01 AM

Quote from: BlackDog on December 26, 2009, 02:49 AM
This mean keeping everything under wraps? Never to air your dirty laundry? Or your neighbor's for that matter.

It is haram to discuss another Muslims faults in public or even with another person. Of course people do it all the time - it's called gossip or mass media, LOL - but it's still haram. Besides the straight prohibitions of gossip, there are also hadiths to the effect that he who hides the faults of others will have his faults hidden on the day of judgment, and he who exposes other people's faults will have his exposed to the people and also on the day of j. It's even worse if you're doing it in the company of non-Muslims. You have to have husn a-dhann for the Muslims. If you talk about faults of Muslims, then you are handing ammunition to the kafireen to attack the deen of allah, and you have to be loyal to the body, etc etc etc. Even talking about walaa wa baraa with non-Muslims is not approved of by a lot of people , and you will hear them talk about it in a wishy washy way that it "just means you hate haram things."

In the face of Non-Muslims, you must affect a stance of arrogance and you defend the ummah and admit to no faults at all (except to criticise the regimes or some people for not being Muslim enough, that sort of thing). This is a sufi teaching, I'm not sure if it comes from hadiths or something else. I think it is also taught in other versions of Islam.

So for this reason, I felt very pressured to deflect on something like the MEMRI translations or extremist preachers, etc. by saying "this isn't Islam," or talking about "socio-political factors" that lead to extremism or something.

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Re: Muslimeen lays the smack down on Darwin
Reply #64 - December 26, 2009, 03:01 AM

Quote from: Manat on December 26, 2009, 02:52 AM
I would think not, but I think what it would mean is that these same types of statements - say about HIV or about Palestinians or about science or whatever - aren't acceptable in the mainstream Israeli society as they are in mainstream Arab society.

And same for the west in general. You could dig through the archives of FOX opinion and news vids and I doubt the instances of vitriol and hatred will be as numerous as the type of shit regularly shown on Arab channels The worst in recent memory that I can think of was when Ann Coulter went "We should invade their countries, kill their leaders and convert them to Christianity." However, that was said after 9/11, so hardly as shocking given the context of that time.

Quote from: thinkfree on September 28, 2010, 07:58 PM
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Re: Muslimeen lays the smack down on Darwin
Reply #65 - December 26, 2009, 03:07 AM

Manat seriously you need to create that HBO series.
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Re: Muslimeen lays the smack down on Darwin
Reply #66 - December 26, 2009, 03:08 AM

Oh there have been some other and more recent examples. Some of them have been posted on this site but I can't recall which threads they were in.

Regarding MEMRI, I think everyone is aware that their content tends to have a limited range. If you are looking for an exhaustive documentary on Islamic art and architecture through the ages you are unlikely to find it on MEMRI. However they do not just host videos that show all Muslims in a bad light. I have seen some of their vids and transcripts that contain statements by moderate/progressive Muslims condemning hardliners and also governments of Islamic countries. Admittedly this is not the majority of MEMRI's content but I think the reason for that is that such content is not the majority of broadcasts in the Islamic areas. There simply isn't that much of it available, so most of MEMRI's stuff tends to be daft clerics and wannabe mujahideen.

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Re: Muslimeen lays the smack down on Darwin
Reply #67 - December 26, 2009, 04:55 AM

Quote from: Kafirist on December 25, 2009, 09:45 PM
That's nice, but once again it has ZERO relevance on this specific video. Unless you can prove it's fake and/or mistranslated.

Memri Shmemri, as long as it shows the truth, who cares about the source?

@ Rubayat. If a source you don't trust tells you that humans have 2 arms and 2 legs, would you think for a second that: "Hmmm I should be careful, I might have 4 arms and 4 legs"?

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Re: Muslimeen lays the smack down on Darwin
Reply #68 - December 26, 2009, 05:35 AM

Quote from: Kafirist on December 25, 2009, 10:55 PM
So after 4 pages of argument over nothing, can we go back to laughing at this mullah? Pretty please?? :'(

Quote from: Kafirist on December 25, 2009, 11:12 PM
Accurate Propaganda:

(Clicky for piccy!)

(lol look at dawkins hand and his face)

Kafirist, you're Hilarious!

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Re: Muslimeen lays the smack down on Darwin
Reply #69 - December 26, 2009, 09:09 AM

Quote from: Rubaiyat on December 25, 2009, 09:44 PM
Always be skeptical.

Here is some background on memri

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2007/may/15/arabicunderfire

Again be skeptical ;-)

Sounds like one columnist attempting to defend a pathetic and shit language like Arabic that can't even explicitly stating something without 60000 possible variations of translations result from a single sentence said. How about instead of whining about the translation - someone does something about Arabic to make it suck less as a language; so that it can be exactly translated into a multitude of languages without 'mistranslating' as the halfwitt who wrote the column claims.

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Re: Muslimeen lays the smack down on Darwin
Reply #70 - December 26, 2009, 09:19 AM

Quote from: Kafirist on December 26, 2009, 03:01 AM
And same for the west in general. You could dig through the archives of FOX opinion and news vids and I doubt the instances of vitriol and hatred will be as numerous as the type of shit regularly shown on Arab channels The worst in recent memory that I can think of was when Ann Coulter went "We should invade their countries, kill their leaders and convert them to Christianity." However, that was said after 9/11, so hardly as shocking given the context of that time.

Not to mention that the person who said is not regarded very highly by the vast majority of people in the US from what I have seen

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Re: Muslimeen lays the smack down on Darwin
Reply #71 - December 27, 2009, 03:52 AM

Well I have watched the video and as a native Arabic speaker I can tell you that it's accurate. There is one trivial mistake in translation at 3:40 where the Sheikh says (scholar=3alim=عالم) which is translated as "Islamic Scholar". However the following quote clearly implies that he was indeed an Islamic Scholar.

I recently watched this video of Iraqi MP Mithat Al-Alouis which was recommended to me by Kafirist http://www.memritv.org/clip/en/2305.htm. The translation is free from errors.

I also recommend watching this video also by Memri:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CSWLLc6uikE.
Again the translation is accurate. There is one word that I am not totally comfortable with which is infiltrate at 3:30. I personally think infiltrate is too strong a word as it is usually used almost exclusively in the context of wars and espionage. I would have used another synonym like penetrate. Still, you can't really blame Memri for such minor and trivial inaccuracies. Objectivity is impossible.

Quote from: osmathus
However they do not just host videos that show all Muslims in a bad light. I have seen some of their vids and transcripts that contain statements by moderate/progressive Muslims condemning hardliners and also governments of Islamic countries. Admittedly this is not the majority of MEMRI's content but I think the reason for that is that such content is not the majority of broadcasts in the Islamic areas.

Well said. The truth of the matter is progressives in the Arab media are scarce.
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Re: Muslimeen lays the smack down on Darwin
Reply #72 - December 27, 2009, 04:23 AM

Quote from: Iraqi Atheist on December 27, 2009, 03:52 AM
Well I have watched the video and as a native Arabic speaker I can tell you that it's accurate. There is one trivial mistake in translation at 3:40 where the Sheikh says (scholar=3alim=عالم) which is translated as "Islamic Scholar". However the following quote clearly implies that was indeed an Islamic Scholar.

There you have it, so even if the video was used for propoganda purposes, it was still an accurate reflection & translation of what was said. Much the same of a Winston Churchill video I favourited, despite its unfortunate source being a BNP site.

The problem is that we dont have enough critique of Islam, so if that has to come from biased sources, provided its done with integrity then so be it.

MemriTV FTW.

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Re: Muslimeen lays the smack down on Darwin
Reply #73 - December 27, 2009, 08:30 AM

And what I find bizzare about the suspicion and distrust of MEMRI from the Muslim and Leftist camp is that all memri really does is translate and edit to the relevent portions. How is merely showing the words of someone propaganda? They don't add scary music, special effects, or edit it nefariously, they simply show a clip, and add english captions. They don't provide their own opinions or views at all.

Memri is quite genius when you think about it. These Israelis realise that the Arab world's mindset and media is so fucked that they really don't need to embellish anything, merely translating the shit they spew from their mouths is more than enough to really boost their cause. If an Arab media watchdog wants to do the same to Israel, then do it!

Quote from: thinkfree on September 28, 2010, 07:58 PM
Iblis has mad debaterin' skillz. Best not step up unless you're prepared to recieve da pain.
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