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Theme Changer

 Topic: Why is Britain the centre of western jihadism & Islamic extremism?

 (Read 17776 times)
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  • Why is Britain the centre of western jihadism & Islamic extremism?
     OP - December 27, 2009, 04:31 PM


    This is a thread I've wanted to open for a while, and the recent discussions about terrorism prompted me to do so.

    I think there are many complex reasons for why the UK is at the moment considered to be the epicentre of extremism in the West.

    Conventional analysis places much of the blame on the various governments who did not take the threat seriously. About how extremists like Abu Hamza were not confronted, and were allowed to foment extremism and violent hatred. British institutions have to take responsibility for their failings.

    But I think it goes deeper than that, much deeper. I think there has been a problem of extremism inside British Islam for a long time. The first real manifestation of it all was in 1989, when there were mass demonstrations and riots calling for Salman Rushdie to be murdered on the streets of Britain. But this was just a conflagration. Something was rotten in the state of Bradford for a long time before that. The seasoned Maududi worshippping Islamists in public life cut their teeth during the Rushdie affair. But the rise of terrorists from English towns and cities, the suicide bombers of 7/7 - these were fruits long in gestation, ripened on branches of trees that were fastidiously cultivated and watered by conscientious ideologues of separatism and supremacism.

    Britain is at long last tackling the issue. Society is well and truly fed up with this. But unless people fully understand the roots of the proliferation of extremist atmospherics and rhetoric and mentalities within significant parts of the Muslim community in Britain, people won't know how to deal with it.



    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Why is Britain the centre of western jihadism & Islamic extremism?
     Reply #1 - December 27, 2009, 04:37 PM

    Secularism has got to be the key, but for all religions not just Islam - its a multicultural society now.  Religion should be encouraged indoors, not elsewhere, and particuarly not in the classroom.

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  • Re: Why is Britain the centre of western jihadism & Islamic extremism?
     Reply #2 - December 27, 2009, 04:40 PM

    IsLame - I agree with you that claims on the secular space by religious groups in the UK have to be resisted. I think that Maududi-ists like the MCB and other organisations organised to use 'multiculturalism' as a kind of lever of influence in all sorts of ways.


    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Why is Britain the centre of western jihadism & Islamic extremism?
     Reply #3 - December 27, 2009, 04:50 PM

    This is something that bugs me as well. After all the 7/7 bombers were all British citizens and I am pretty sure that they were all born and raised here in the UK.
    So why is UK a specific case as far as radical Islam is concerned? Surely the issues regarding ones identity and supremacism are just as acute among Muslims
    living in other European countries?  

    I sure hope that you are right when you say that British society at large is fed up with this and that a proper debate is finally going to take place.

    I think that Maududi-ists like the MCB and other organisations organised to use 'multiculturalism' as a kind of lever of influence in all sorts of ways.

    Sure they do. But the real question is why is the British society buying this excuse?
  • Re: Why is Britain the centre of western jihadism & Islamic extremism?
     Reply #4 - December 27, 2009, 05:34 PM

    Quote
    Sure they do. But the real question is why is the British society buying this excuse?


    I don't think its buying it much anymore.

    But why did it in the past? Negligence, not paying attention, not being aware of what was springing up in British society, fear of accusations of racism or 'Islamophobia' - many reasons.


    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Why is Britain the centre of western jihadism & Islamic extremism?
     Reply #5 - December 27, 2009, 05:46 PM

    There is a canary in the coal mine problem in British Islam too.

    The atmospherics and default mindset is often so, well, narrow minded and intolerant in itself that there is a problem detecting violent  extremism. This becomes dangerous in and of itself, because it becomes the atmosphere in which the murderous extremism grows its further branches.

    When the 7/7 bombers struck, a youth worker at the community centre in which they hung out, spending hours downloading jihadi porn on the computers, openly speaking in extremist language during the year or so before the attacks, said that he was shocked and had no reason to suspect that they were thinking in such terms. It turns out that this guy was pretty much a kuffar-are-scum kind of guy himself, so even if he had no intent to be a terrorist himself, he saw little wrong in what they were all about.

    Take Dr Muhammad Naseem, chairman of Birmingham Central Mosque, who spreads conspiracy theories and paranoia from his office. Birmingham does have a problem of extremism. The Green Lane Mosque was exposed as a hard core extremist place with frothing at the mouth preachers teaching hatred of non Muslims. Hardcore wahaabi sermonising, widespread dissemination of extremist literature. Just today, the Birmingham Mail reports:

    Quote
    Sheikh Faisal al-Jassim and Sheikh Abdul Aziz As-Sadhan, were invited to lecture crowds on Christmas Day and Boxing Day, despite preaching hatred against Jews and calling for holy war.

    In an online recording, Kuwaiti al-Jassim refers to Jews as "the arch enemies of this great religion," and asks listeners to "prepare all the weapons we can".

    As-Sadhan describes "the band of Jews" as having "amassed despicable qualities and vile characteristics" and claims they have "defaced mankind."


    Slowly but surely, Muslims are opposing this kind of thing. But there is still too much acquiesence to this kind of extremism. There is still not enough opposition from within the Muslim community to this kind of hate mongering.

    Muhammad Abdul Bari, the leader of the Muslim Council of Britain, is a Jamaat-e-Islaami Islamist who hosts preachers from Bangladesh who describe Hindus as 'human excrement'

    How can the canary in the coalmine scent the danger when the canary is so oblivious and enraptured of the mentality of extremism itself?


    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Why is Britain the centre of western jihadism & Islamic extremism?
     Reply #6 - December 27, 2009, 06:33 PM

    I agree Billy, its mad. White liberal guilt plays a role too as well as successive governments pandering to those in the Muslim comunities with the loudest voices, i.e. Islamists like the MCB. Land of hope and glory.

    Take the Pakman challenge and convince me there is a God and Mo was not a murdering, power hungry sex maniac.
  • Re: Why is Britain the centre of western jihadism & Islamic extremism?
     Reply #7 - December 27, 2009, 06:46 PM

    pakman - there is a virulence in the mainstream of Islam in Britain, in specific Muslim communities, that is actually shocking.


    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Why is Britain the centre of western jihadism & Islamic extremism?
     Reply #8 - December 27, 2009, 11:54 PM

    I agree Billy, its mad. White liberal guilt plays a role too as well as successive governments pandering to those in the Muslim comunities with the loudest voices, i.e. Islamists like the MCB. Land of hope and glory.


    I wouldn't call it white liberal guilt - they (white liberal guilt trippers) make up but a very small number. The vast majority is actually 'white middle of the road fear' - the fear of being labelled a racist, xenophobe, Islamophobe - heck, there are ex-Muslims here who throw around such loaded words when they lose an argument.

    Take Jack Straw for example regarding what he said about niqqab, that wasn't even offensive in the slightest and yet self appointed 'guardians of the faith and protectors of the persecuted' took it upon themselves to label Jack Straw a racist and Islamophobe.

    The UK is in the situation that it is in because the country has been pussy whipped into submission and ex-Muslims on this very forum turning around and claiming that anyone who criticises Muslims are obviously clueless and possibly racist.

    "It's just a job. Grass grows, birds fly, waves pound the sand. I beat people up." - Muhammad Ali
  • Re: Why is Britain the centre of western jihadism & Islamic extremism?
     Reply #9 - December 27, 2009, 11:59 PM

    In response to the original question, "Why is Britain the centre of western jihadism & Islamic extremism? ", I think we have missd the obvious out.  That UK always involves itself in the wars, and usually hands in hands with the US, both leading the charge.. Also I dont think its previous empire helped matters

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Why is Britain the centre of western jihadism & Islamic extremism?
     Reply #10 - December 27, 2009, 11:59 PM

    I think this sort of thing is a large part of it:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZVjKlBCvhg

    Basically, nice people think if you are nice to nasty people they will be nice back. Doesn't always work.

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Why is Britain the centre of western jihadism & Islamic extremism?
     Reply #11 - December 28, 2009, 12:05 AM

    In response to the original question, "Why is Britain the centre of western jihadism & Islamic extremism? ", I think we have missd the obvious out.  That UK always involves itself in the wars, and usually hands in hands with the US, both leading the charge.. Also I dont think its previous empire helped matters


    Jihadism and extremism originating in the UK predates Britain's involvment in wars. Also, there are millions of African-Carribeans, African Christians, Hindus and Sikhs in the UK whose ethnic origins are in lands colonised by the British. I think that is a red-herring.


    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Why is Britain the centre of western jihadism & Islamic extremism?
     Reply #12 - December 28, 2009, 12:35 AM

    Quote
    Also, there are millions of African-Carribeans, African Christians, Hindus and Sikhs in the UK

    The others are relativly peaceful in any country, yet we have Islamic extremism everywhere.
    We all know this is a particualr problem with Islam, you were asking specifically why UK gets the brunt of it.
    Quote
    I think that is a red-herring.

    Not true, if you speak to the Mullahs and the terrorists, if you asked them to name to countries at the forefront of Evil against Islam, it would be US, Israel & UK.  If the US had a higher percentage of uneducated Muslims, I have no doubt it would be worse there too.  And they have already experienced the worst of it with 9/11.

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Why is Britain the centre of western jihadism & Islamic extremism?
     Reply #13 - December 28, 2009, 01:27 AM

    IsLame, I meant the thing about Britain having a previous empire is a red herring. That has nothing to do with the hate ideologies that are propounded amongst some Muslims - the lunacy of Maududi and all the rest of it. It predates the war in Iraq. Muhammad Hanif from Hounslow and Omar Khan Sharif from Derby carried out a suicide bombing in Israel in 2003. Omar Shaikh from Essex was a hardcore jihadi who has been implicated in so many acts of violence and  lured Daniel Pearl to his beheading in Karachi. This is just the bubbling up of what was brewing before, and it all took place before Iraq.

    Also, as it is, we have begun to see jihadis emerge from within America - five Muslim men were just arrested in Pakistan, there have been American Muslims in Somalia, Al Awlaki was / is American born, and one of the guys implicated in the Mumbai attack is an American Muslim.






    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Why is Britain the centre of western jihadism & Islamic extremism?
     Reply #14 - December 28, 2009, 01:34 AM

    In the world of Islamic supremacists, US and previously UK were world powers - thus they are seen as the stallwarts to Islamic growth.  Muslims also bang on with 'tu quoque' when talking about attrocities & imperialism.

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Why is Britain the centre of western jihadism & Islamic extremism?
     Reply #15 - December 28, 2009, 01:41 AM

    In relation to the failed suicide bombing in Detroit - the Nigerian wannabe shaheed was most probably radicalised in London.

    University campuses have long been areas of radicalisation. I witnessed this first hand at a university in London in the early 2000's where I did a postgraduate course. The atmosphere was not nice in certain campus buildings.

    ++++++++++


    Terror plot raises questions over student visas

    The latest airline bomb plot by a terrorist with British connections raises serious questions about the UK's controversial student visa system.
     
    By Martin Evans


    Umar Farouk Abdul Mutallab, who comes from a wealthy family in Nigeria, was already showing signs of extremist views when he was granted a visa to study mechanical engineering at University College London in 2005.

    After completing his studies in 2008 he travelled to the Middle East before applying to return to the UK in May for another six month course.

    However, his request was refused by officials from the UK Borders Agency as he was attempting to enrol on a course being offered by an institution on the Government's list of bogus colleges.

    Despite the fact his entry was barred, questions still remain over the system which has seen more than one and a half million visas granted to overseas students during the last eight years.

    Earlier this year a report by the Home Affairs Select Committee criticised the Government for failing to deal adequately with the explosion in bogus colleges springing up across the UK.

    Keith Vaz, chairman of the committee said: "The government must restrict the term college to prevent any premises above a fish and chip shop from being able to claim it is a reputed educational institution."

    It is feared tens of thousands of foreign nationals have gained entry to Britain illegally under the scheme, with many avoiding detection and never leaving.

    In March tighter restrictions were introduced cutting the number of institutions allowed to recruit students from outside the UK.

    But critics believe the new points based register has done little to close the system's gaping loopholes.

    Around 3,000 educational institutions across the UK have been granted licenses under the points based system but there are only 62 officials employed to vet the colleges and their 13,500 employees.

    MPs have welcomed efforts to improve the system, but in their report expressed concern that inspectors were giving notice to colleges before visits.

    Sir Andrew Green, Chairman of Migrationwatch has also been deeply critical of the system which he said provided a "gaping hole" in our immigration system.

    He said: "We now issue 370,000 student visas a year ? almost the entire population of Bristol or Manchester ? yet hardly any of the applicants ever see hide nor hair of an Immigration Officer."

    There is also widespread concern that many legitimate universities and colleges are providing fertile recruiting grounds for radical Islamic preachers and banned groups.

    Radicalisation among students has been a problem since the 1990s, with many of those involved in terror plots being highly educated graduates.

    Three of the July 7 bombers attended university as did most of the gang which planned a fertiliser bomb attack on the Bluewater shopping centre and the Ministry of Sound nightclub.

    Ahmed Omar Sheikh, convicted of the kidnap and murder of the journalist Daniel Pearl, was a former student at London School of Economics, and Waseem Mughal, convicted of running a website for al-Qaeda in Iraq, was a former biochemistry student at Leicester University.

    Mughal was a member of the university Islamic society, and the fertiliser bomber Jawad Akbar attended Islamic society meetings at Brunel University, while Yassin Nassari, convicted of smuggling plans for a Qassam rocket into Britain, was president of the University of Westminster's Islamic society at its Harrow campus in Northwest London.

    The gang convicted of the plot to bring down transatlantic airliners in 2006 are also believed to have engaged in radical activities while at university.

    Ringleader Abdulla Ahmed Ali, became radicalised as a teenager in East London, later completing a degree in computer systems engineering at City University.

    The plot's bomb maker Assad Sarwar studied briefly at Brunel University in West London, while the quartermaster Tanvir Hussain studied business and information systems at Middlesex University in north west London.

    A recent study by the Centre for Social Cohesion found that a third of Muslim university students believed killing in the name of religion could be justified.

    The disturbing findings of the survey also found a large proportion were in favour of the introduction of Sharia law in the UK.

    Following publication of the report, its co-author Hannah Stuart said: "Students in higher education are the future leaders of their communities yet significant numbers of them appear to hold beliefs which contravene liberal, democratic values.

    "In addition there are signs of growing religious segregation on campus. These results are deeply embarrassing for those who have said that there is no extremism in British universities."


    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/terrorism-in-the-uk/6895401/Terror-plot-raises-questions-over-student-visas.html


     

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Why is Britain the centre of western jihadism & Islamic extremism?
     Reply #16 - December 28, 2009, 01:43 AM

    In the world of Islamic supremacists, US and previously UK were world powers - thus they are seen as the stallwarts to Islamic growth.  Muslims also bang on with 'tu quoque' when talking about attrocities & imperialism.


    Yes that is right.


    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Why is Britain the centre of western jihadism & Islamic extremism?
     Reply #17 - December 28, 2009, 01:55 AM

    It was not such a problem for the US to bombard Muslim countries as their own civilian muslim population was small.  You see how they handle Israel with kids gloves as they have a significant Jewish population.  Blair just followed Bush, without appreciating the remifications.

    Thats why I believe UK is at the centre, as well as being a dangerous myth to project, I dont think it was because UK was too soft on muslim immigrants. 

    They were already brainwashed before they came here, and would have ghettoized regardless (or perhaps even more so with more stringent measures).

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  • Re: Why is Britain the centre of western jihadism & Islamic extremism?
     Reply #18 - December 28, 2009, 02:14 AM


    Lets timeline this. Major immigration from the commonwealth began in the 1950's and went on into the 1960s. By 1989, lets say 25 years since large scale Muslim immigration began, there was an ideological infrastructure and a cadre of young Muslims radicalised and ready to foment and organise around the Rushdie affair. Iqbal Sacranie, Bunglawala and all the rest of them were at the front of that. They were hardcore Maududi worshippers, and they laid the template and groundwork of bellicosity, separatism and griveance mongering, overlaid with grievance victimhood hysteria that has marked Islamic identity politics, and seeded and tolerated and grew the atmosphere in which the most vicious hatreds, preachers, and ultimately, jihadis could flourish.


    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Why is Britain the centre of western jihadism & Islamic extremism?
     Reply #19 - December 28, 2009, 02:31 AM

    The UK is in the business of getting people from outside, not worrying about integrating them, which ends up polarizing them, then send them back to be someone else's problem, and it seems that they do, become a problem.

    "Ask the slave girl; she will tell you the truth.' So the Apostle called Burayra to ask her. Ali got up and gave her a violent beating first, saying, 'Tell the Apostle the truth.'"
  • Re: Why is Britain the centre of western jihadism & Islamic extremism?
     Reply #20 - December 28, 2009, 02:41 AM

    Lets timeline this. Major immigration from the commonwealth began in the 1950's and went on into the 1960s. By 1989, lets say 25 years since large scale Muslim immigration began, there was an ideological infrastructure and a cadre of young Muslims radicalised and ready to foment and organise around the Rushdie affair. Iqbal Sacranie, Bunglawala and all the rest of them were at the front of that. They were hardcore Maududi worshippers, and they laid the template and groundwork of bellicosity, separatism and griveance mongering, overlaid with grievance victimhood hysteria that has marked Islamic identity politics, and seeded and tolerated and grew the atmosphere in which the most vicious hatreds, preachers, and ultimately, jihadis could flourish.



    Yep, but I was hearing signals before the Rushdie Affair, it was around that time that I realised it was all bogus.  You are correct about the infrastructure, the first generation has already set its ground.  From Halal shops to Muslim Youth camps - it had already happened, and the Rushdie affair was the pin that burst this balloon & vocalise/create awareness of this polarisation.

    tbh I am surprised 9/11 didnt cause produce more exmuslims, i guess if it werent for the conspiracy theories, then it might have been different.

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Why is Britain the centre of western jihadism & Islamic extremism?
     Reply #21 - December 28, 2009, 12:49 PM

    I recommend reading this insightful Vanity Fair article by Christopher Hitchens entitled Londonistan Calling as well as the Q & A about the column.

    I'm not sure if it was in this particular article or somewhere else where Hitchens made the case that the problem is largely due to where the immigrants hail from. He argued that had the Muslims in Britain been mainly of Tunisian origin for example rather than Pakistani origin, the UK society wouldn't have had such a problem with extremism as it has today. It does sound a bit one-dimensional and simplistic but I'm inclined to agree with him. He is right in that there are salient differences between Pakistani Islam, Saudi Islam, Tunisian Islam, or Syrian Islam for that matter.

    IsLame mentioned something about the colonial legacy of the UK and I have to disagree with him. France has a history of a much more brutal and bloody occupation in Algeria yet it doesn't have a significant terrorist Islamic movement. And despite the fact that France's Muslims amount to as much as 8-10% of the population (as opposed to less than 4% in the UK), it doesn't seem to be a hotbed for Muslim terrorists.
    There are of course obvious issues with immigrants in France such as the ghettoization, disintegration, and economic inequality which resulted in the 2005 riots in Paris. Contrary to the popular belief, even those riots didn't stem from religious extremism as was found out by leading French sociologists in a study that I had read before but can't seem to find the link to.
  • Re: Why is Britain the centre of western jihadism & Islamic extremism?
     Reply #22 - December 28, 2009, 03:15 PM

    The Detroit bomber was most probably radicalised in London. Linked to the east London mosque, which had 'pre recorded lectures' by Awlaki given there, although Abdulmutallab didn't attend them -- WTF is the east London mosque hosting Awlaki events for?



    ++++++


    Nigerian in aircraft attack linked to London mosque

    Probe into bomber's contact with UK radical groups and visits to East London mosque / Suspect had attempted to obtain British visa in time for potential Christmas attack

    By Kim Sengupta and David Usborne, US Editor

    Security agencies in Britain are investigating reports that Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab, the young Nigerian accused of attempting to blow up a transatlantic airliner, contacted radical Muslims while studying at university in London, The Independent understands.

    Mohammed Mutallab, a cousin of the arrested man, has claimed that the 23-year-old came under the influence of extremist groups while in this country, and associates claim he visited the East London Mosque, which has attracted criticism for hosting Muslim hardline preachers, three times.

    MI5 and Special Branch are looking through intelligence records to see whether Abdulmutallab surfaced at the fringes of any terrorist plots in Britain.

    Abdulmutallab was denied a British visa in May this year by the UK Border Agency; he claimed he planned to attend a six-month course, but the educational establishment turned out to be bogus.

    Security agencies are trying to establish what may have been his real motive for trying to enter the UK. The supposed six-month course was to begin in September 2009, which would have placed him in this country in time for the projected Christmas attack. He will be asked whether the original plan was to board a flight from Britain.....

    .....He is known to have recently spent time in the Yemen, where his mother?s family comes from, travelling via Dubai, before going back to Lagos via other staging posts for the Detroit flight.

    The son of the wealthy Nigerian banker had in 2008 completed a three-year degree in engineering with business finance at University College London (UCL). He successfully applied for a multiple entry visa from the US Embassy in London last year.

    Scotland Yard's anti-terrorist branch yesterday carried out searches at UCL offices and at two flats owned by Abdulmutallab?s family in London?s West End, worth around $3 million, where he stayed while an undergraduate.

    Abdulmutallab's radical views are believed to developed while he was still a schoolboy in Togo in west Africa before he came to the UK. Security officials say 'there is no reason to believe that he changed his views' during his stay in the UK, and there is as yet no evidence that he was involved in plotting acts of violence while in London.

    Earlier this year, the East London Mosque was the venue for a pre-recorded talk by Anwar al-Awlaki, a radical cleric based in the Yemen, who the US Department for Homeland Security says acted as spiritual mentor to three of the 9/11 hijackers.

    However, Abdulmutallab was not in the UK at the time, and the mosque authorities stressed that they dissociated it from al-Awlaki?s views at the event, which was organised by an outside organisation.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/nigerian-in-aircraft-attack-linked-to-london-mosque-1851452.html


    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Why is Britain the centre of western jihadism & Islamic extremism?
     Reply #23 - December 28, 2009, 03:18 PM

    He argued that had the Muslims in Britain been mainly of Tunisian origin for example rather than Pakistani origin, the UK society wouldn't have had such a problem with extremism as it has today. It does sound a bit one-dimensional and simplistic but I'm inclined to agree with him. He is right in that there are salient difference between Pakistani Islam, Saudi Islam, Tunisian Islam, or Syrian Islam for that matter.


    I agree with him. Hopefully we'll get to discuss characteristics of Pakistani Islam on this thread.


    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Why is Britain the centre of western jihadism & Islamic extremism?
     Reply #24 - December 28, 2009, 03:29 PM


    From todays Daily Telegraph. Why are university campuses thick with Islamist and jihadi ideologues?

    +++++++

    The British public is not so stupid as to think that most Muslims approve of Islamist terrorism: of course they do not. Moreover, although Muslims in opinion polls frequently express a preference for living in an Islamic state, only a small percentage share the jihadist fanaticism that inspired the airline bomber. Yet the awkward fact remains: of that percentage, a worrying number have lived in Britain and especially London. Some have studied at our universities: Abdul Mutallab graduated in mechanical engineering from University College London in 2008.

    Over the past decade, institutes of higher education in London have consistently provided sanctuary for Islamist students who parrot the hate-filled rhetoric of al-Qaeda and its allies. Again and again, speakers have been invited and rooms provided so that, in the name of free speech, vulnerable students can be indoctrinated. Some of those students may now be sitting in caves in Waziristan or caf?s in the Yemen devising methods of killing Westerners. Perhaps they picked up their expertise in a British university laboratory. We may never know until it is too late.

    What we do know is that our security forces have consulted vice-chancellors in order to impress upon them the urgency of the threat. Unfortunately, that is easier said than done. Liberal British academics, along with their friends in the media and public sector, have a habit of diverting any discussion of terrorism away from Islamism towards the evils of Anglo-American foreign policy. By doing so they are less likely to offend students from developing countries whose delicate sensibilities seem to matter more than security. Perhaps some of those academics are stuck in airport queues today. If so, we must hope that it finally dawns on them that, irrespective of the complex causes of terrorism, their politically correct indulgence of Islamic radicals is making life more dangerous for all of us.


    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/terrorism-in-the-uk/6898738/Detroit-terror-attack-Academic-liberalism-is-a-danger-to-life.html


    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Why is Britain the centre of western jihadism & Islamic extremism?
     Reply #25 - December 28, 2009, 05:12 PM

    I recommend reading this insightful Vanity Fair article by Christopher Hitchens entitled Londonistan Calling as well as the Q & A about the column.

    I'm not sure if it was in this particular article or somewhere else where Hitchens made the case that the problem is largely due to where the immigrants hail from. He argued that had the Muslims in Britain been mainly of Tunisian origin for example rather than Pakistani origin, the UK society wouldn't have had such a problem with extremism as it has today. It does sound a bit one-dimensional and simplistic but I'm inclined to agree with him. He is right in that there are salient difference between Pakistani Islam, Saudi Islam, Tunisian Islam, or Syrian Islam for that matter.

    IsLame mentioned something about the colonial legacy of the UK and I have to disagree with him. France has a history of a much more brutal and bloody occupation in Algeria yet it doesn't have a significant terrorist Islamic movement. And despite the fact that France's Muslims amount to as much as 8-10% of the population (as opposed to less than 4% in the UK), it doesn't seem to be a hotbed for Muslim terrorists.
    There are of course obvious issues with immigrants in France such as the ghettoization, disintegration, and economic inequality which resulted in the 2005 riots in Paris. Contrary to the popular belief, even those riots didn't stem from religious extremism as was found out by leading French sociologists in a study that I had read before but can't seem to find the link to.


    Yep, you might be right, if the same uneducated & larger % of Tunisian immigrants did not cause such a problem, then perhaps Pakistani Islam is the cause of the troubles in the UK?  

    Perhaps the empire is only relevent in that it put Britain on the map, and its recent bed hopping with the US only served to prove that it was at the centre of power struggle of the West vs Islam in Muslim eyes.  

    France (and the rest of Europe) certainly wanted a more commited approach to the UN, and certainly is not hated in any way near as much as the UK & US in the Arab & rest of muslim world.  
    So I certainly think this is still a significant part of the problem, but agree there is an additional problem with Arab & Pakistani Islam which appears to be different from the rest.  Perhaps Pakistan was different in that it was a nation carved out due to Islam and a bloody struggle at that, so Islam is seen as something you have to fight for?

    Sadly most other Islamic countries appear to be moving in this direction generally too..  

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  • Re: Why is Britain the centre of western jihadism & Islamic extremism?
     Reply #26 - December 28, 2009, 05:50 PM

    French targets and interests have been attacked many times in recent years. Also, much of planning for the Madrid train bombings may have taken place in Paris. France is one of the countries OBL called to be attacked, but for terrorist cadres it's also an important transit point that they may not want to compromise.

    "...every imperfection in man is a bond with heaven..." - Karl Marx
  • Re: Why is Britain the centre of western jihadism & Islamic extremism?
     Reply #27 - December 28, 2009, 05:57 PM

    Is it as bad as the UK?  btw I like your sig!

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  • Re: Why is Britain the centre of western jihadism & Islamic extremism?
     Reply #28 - December 28, 2009, 06:07 PM

    Thanks, again.  Smiley

    I don't think it's as bad as the UK, especially considering the size of the muslim population.

    We do have stronger anti-terrorist laws and surveillance, and that produces more arrests. On the other hand, we have a far less thriving democracy than France.

    "...every imperfection in man is a bond with heaven..." - Karl Marx
  • Re: Why is Britain the centre of western jihadism & Islamic extremism?
     Reply #29 - December 28, 2009, 06:13 PM

    And - yes - colonialism and following America's wars makes the UK more of a target. But that's not the only thing that matters.

    "...every imperfection in man is a bond with heaven..." - Karl Marx
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