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Theme Changer

 Topic: Why is Britain the centre of western jihadism & Islamic extremism?

 (Read 17774 times)
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  • Re: Why is Britain the centre of western jihadism & Islamic extremism?
     Reply #30 - December 28, 2009, 06:24 PM

    I think a lot of radicalization is being fueled on the internet, primarily in the language of English. Britain has a lot of unemployed Muslim youth who have time on their hands and the internet access to allow them to radicalize themselves and each other at an accelerated pace.

    My style is impetuous, my defense is impregnable and I'm just ferocious. I want your heart. I want to eat your children. Praise be to Allah." -- Mike Tyson
  • Re: Why is Britain the centre of western jihadism & Islamic extremism?
     Reply #31 - December 28, 2009, 07:08 PM

    Quote from: Submissive Bob
    I think a lot of radicalization is being fueled on the internet, primarily in the language of English. Britain has a lot of unemployed Muslim youth who have time on their hands and the internet access to allow them to radicalize themselves and each other at an accelerated pace.

    There is unemployed Muslim youth in France as well so I don't see your point. In fact unemployment among French Muslims is significantly higher than among British Muslims. Not to mention the much more marked ghettoization.

    Quote from: IsLame
    Perhaps the empire is only relevent in that it put Britain on the map, and its recent bed hopping with the US only served to prove that it was at the centre of power struggle of the West vs Islam in Muslim eyes. 

    France (and the rest of Europe) certainly wanted a more commited approach to the UN, and certainly is not hated in any way near as much as the UK & US in the Arab & rest of muslim world.

    I don't share your view. The thing is, it's not only about the increased risk and possibility of terrorist attacks in the UK. The topic is about why Britain has become a breeding ground for Muslim extremists who are committing acts of terrorism worldwide. So much to the extent that made a French anti-terrorism intelligence officer infamously refer to London as Londonistan. Hence, the article and the book.
  • Re: Why is Britain the centre of western jihadism & Islamic extremism?
     Reply #32 - December 28, 2009, 07:35 PM

    There is unemployed Muslim youth in France as well so I don't see your point. In fact unemployment among French Muslims is significantly higher than among British Muslims. Not to mention the much more marked ghettoization.

    Yes but english speakers have a greater quantity of radical content to absorb on the net dont they? forums, youtube etc..
    Plus the British Muslims are mostly Pakistanis and can access more combative elements back home than the french Muslims. 

    My style is impetuous, my defense is impregnable and I'm just ferocious. I want your heart. I want to eat your children. Praise be to Allah." -- Mike Tyson
  • Re: Why is Britain the centre of western jihadism & Islamic extremism?
     Reply #33 - December 28, 2009, 08:03 PM


    IsLame mentioned something about the colonial legacy of the UK and I have to disagree with him. France has a history of a much more brutal and bloody occupation in Algeria yet it doesn't have a significant terrorist Islamic movement. And despite the fact that France's Muslims amount to as much as 8-10% of the population (as opposed to less than 4% in the UK), it doesn't seem to be a hotbed for Muslim terrorists.


    I think IsLame meant it is relevant only in the fevered and crazy imaginations of the Islamic extremists. As other non Muslim descendants of former colonies have shown, it is possible to be British and black / brown / non -Christian and be at peace with society.

    The other thing that makes me laugh about this colonialism lark is that if everyone who had ancestry from a place or society that had felt the harshness of Islamic conquest in the past decided to get a chip on their shoulder about the many oppressions wrought by Islamic expansionism in the past there would be a lot of grievances in the world. Thankfully most people live in the modern world and don't manufacture grievance in that way for themselves as a matter of theo-political aggressiveness.

    Maybe this is why some Muslims try to whitewash Islamic imperialism so fastidiously.


    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Why is Britain the centre of western jihadism & Islamic extremism?
     Reply #34 - December 28, 2009, 08:06 PM

    Perhaps Pakistan was different in that it was a nation carved out due to Islam and a bloody struggle at that, so Islam is seen as something you have to fight for?


    I think there might be something in there - related to the identity of Pakistani Islam - it was already a form of religious nationalism witha defensiveness and a set of assumptions about the world.

    The only thing about your idea though is that Pakistan was created in bloody struggle against Indians during partition, and it was a historical event in which everyone suffered, Indians as well as Pakistanis, and it was not a violent struggle against the British. So for that matter having a resentment against Britain would be entuirely misplaced, unless it was just an angry, inchoate impulse embedded in the way of looking at the world.

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Why is Britain the centre of western jihadism & Islamic extremism?
     Reply #35 - December 29, 2009, 06:21 AM

    I think a lot of radicalization is being fueled on the internet, primarily in the language of English. Britain has a lot of unemployed Muslim youth who have time on their hands and the internet access to allow them to radicalize themselves and each other at an accelerated pace.


    But why are they unemployed? being picky about jobs, "ooh, I can't do that, it involves pork! alcohol! haraam! haraam!"? Why do immigrants from other communities have lower rates of unemployment? has the UK government been pussy whipped into the corner and fails to make these kids get off their ass, get a job and stop being so fucking picky?

    "It's just a job. Grass grows, birds fly, waves pound the sand. I beat people up." - Muhammad Ali
  • Re: Why is Britain the centre of western jihadism & Islamic extremism?
     Reply #36 - December 30, 2009, 01:52 PM



    So, the Detroit bomber was up to his neck in Islamist politics in London

    +++++

    The Christmas Day airline bomb plot suspect organised a conference under the banner ?War on Terror Week? as he immersed himself in radical politics while a student in London, The Times has learnt.

    Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab, 23, a former president of the Islamic Society at University College London, advertised speakers including political figures, human rights lawyers and former Guantanamo detainees.

    One lecture, Jihad v Terrorism, was billed as "a lecture on the Islamic position with respect to jihad".

    Security sources are concerned that the picture emerging of his undergraduate years suggests that he was recruited by al-Qaeda in London. Security sources said that Islamist radicalisation was rife on university campuses, especially in London, and that college authorities had "a patchy record in facing up to the problem". Previous anti-terrorist inquiries have uncovered evidence of extremists using political meetings and religious study circles to identify potential recruits.

    http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article6971098.ece

    ++++++

    Britain not only has radicals that threaten herself, she is the hub of extremism for people from around the world who want to harm and kill innocent people around the world.

    Even more shocks arise:

    He is the fourth president of a London student Islamic society to face terrorist charges in three years. One is facing a retrial on charges that he was involved in the 2006 liquid bomb plot to blow up airliners. Two others have been convicted of terrorist offences since 2007.

    Anyone who has spent time on London university campuses in the last decade won't find that all that surprising.

    It is really embarassing that Britain and London in particular, has become the global centre of all this. It is shameful that these jihadis use the cosmopolitanism and liberalism of Britain to foment hatred. It is loathsome that this happens.


    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Why is Britain the centre of western jihadism & Islamic extremism?
     Reply #37 - December 30, 2009, 03:31 PM

    shameful that these jihadis use the cosmopolitanism and liberalism of Britain to foment hatred. It is loathsome that this happens.

    If you think that its because of Britains liberal attitude towards Islam that has allowed jihadis to strengthen, then why didnt this happen in France?  There laws are not that different, and certainly not restrictive from allowing this sort of thing to happen there too?  The only thing I have ever heard coming out of France to counter this sort of thing is banning the hijab, an inneffactive measure that has only recently been discussed in any case..

    My Book     news002       
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  • Re: Why is Britain the centre of western jihadism & Islamic extremism?
     Reply #38 - December 30, 2009, 03:55 PM

    Quote
    If you think that its because of Britains liberal attitude towards Islam that has allowed jihadis to strengthen, then why didnt this happen in France?  There laws are not that different, and certainly not restrictive from allowing this sort of thing to happen there too?  The only thing I have ever heard coming out of France to counter this sort of thing is banning the hijab, an inneffactive measure that has only recently been discussed in any case..


    I was just expressing how angry it makes me feel that these people congregate in Britain and abuse our society to preach hate. I don't have all the answers in one paragraph - as always these things are intertwined and multi-layered.

    It could be that London / UK just reached a critical mass of jihadi sympathetic population at a certain point years ago and so it naturally attracted those who wanted to peddle in this culture. Type attracts type. The English language could be another reason for the attractiveness of the UK and London. Jihadis and foreign extremist minded Islamists use the international language and so it allows for communication across Ummah nationality much easier. English is the language of science, technology, and can be utilised for propagandistic rhetoric.

    Britain is seen as a soft touch. They laugh at how easy it is to exploit institutions and traditions and the system. Soft Islamists like the Jamaat-e-Islaami influenced MCB and other organisations have always adopted a hectoring, screeching, finger-wagging sensibility of persecution whenever these issues are discussed, creating a kind of haze, a mist behind which extremists can thrive. So its multiple issues that all feed into this.


    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Why is Britain the centre of western jihadism & Islamic extremism?
     Reply #39 - December 30, 2009, 04:04 PM

    Like I said earlier, I think its just because US & the UK are seen by muslim extremists as the countries holding the power on the international stage - with media like the BBC they probably also see the UK as a chance to maximise their publicity & exposure.  I just wish we would refrain from pandering to the tabloids & attaching UK liberal laws as the cause, unless we think it really is the reason. 

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Why is Britain the centre of western jihadism & Islamic extremism?
     Reply #40 - December 30, 2009, 04:26 PM

    Quote
    Like I said earlier, I think its just because US & the UK are seen by muslim extremists as the countries holding the power on the international stage - with media like the BBC they probably also see the UK as a chance to maximise their publicity & exposure.  I just wish we would refrain from pandering to the tabloids & attaching UK liberal laws as the cause, unless we think it really is the reason. 

     

    Their perception of the UK is one contributory factor. I don't think its pandering to the tabloids to see in wider terms that the liberal, open society of Britain has allowed them to spread their hatred and bigotry. Why are universities so filled with hate mongering extremists? How can liberal institutions like our universities become vassals for this horrific, bigoted ideology? Why the reluctance to confront it head on, for so long?



    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Why is Britain the centre of western jihadism & Islamic extremism?
     Reply #41 - December 30, 2009, 04:34 PM

    Of course a liberal laissez-faire system as opposed to a authoratarian one will allow such ideologies to grow & flourish, because liberalism places a certain degree of trust in individuals which can be abused as well as be taken advantage of.

    That is what has happened.  My point it is that it is not because UK was over-tolerant e.g. France was not that different.  It is because UK has/had a larger problem than France ever had

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Why is Britain the centre of western jihadism & Islamic extremism?
     Reply #42 - December 30, 2009, 08:10 PM

    Quote
    That is what has happened.  My point it is that it is not because UK was over-tolerant e.g. France was not that different.  It is because UK has/had a larger problem than France ever had

     

    The two are self perpetuating.

    No white supremacist organisation would ever have been allowed the free reign to do what Islamist supremacist activists have done over the last 15 to 20 years in our universities and in our society. Civil society has allowed it to flourish, partly through not confronting it because of inhibitions about being deemed 'Islamophobic'. Look what a mess that has got us into.


    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Why is Britain the centre of western jihadism & Islamic extremism?
     Reply #43 - January 02, 2010, 04:39 PM

    More brilliance from The Spittoon. I really cannot praise this blog and the guys who write for them, highly enough.


    +++++++


    The president and provost of University College London, Malcolm Grant, has written in the Times Higher Education site in response to reports, following the arrest of Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab, which have questioned the associations of the terrorist to Islamist radicalisation on the campus of UCL. The Underwear Bomber studied Mechanical Engineering with Business Finance at UCL between 2005 and 2008 and was president of the UCL ISOC in 2006-2007. Grant is is particularly perturbed by a piece by Con Coughlin in the Telegraph blogs......

    .........Grant does a splendid job at recoiling at Coughlin's most absurd suggestion (that a non-British student should not be permitted to be President of the UCL Islamic Society), knowing full well that that any sensible person will disagree with Coughlin on that point. Notice too the charge of Islamophobia to curtail any further debate. Grant insists on pushing the oft-repeated canard that there was no evidence that the suspect was radicalised at UCL. But so what? Who cares about the provenance of his radicalisation when there is plenty of evidence to show that Abdulmuttalab was very radicalised whilst he was the president of the UCL ISOC.

    Who does Grant think he is fooling? Muslims who are concerned about the growth of Islamist hatemongering at UCL and many other Universities around the UK are not prepared to accept the pathetic slur of 'Islamophobia' to shut us up in the way that it is designed to silence white liberal criticism. And if he thinks that a single outraged statement allows him to continue to remain blissfully ignorant of the Islamist activity that is going on under his nose at the UCL, he is gravely mistaken.


    ++++++++


    Read the whole thing please.

    http://www.spittoon.org/archives/4423





    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Why is Britain the centre of western jihadism & Islamic extremism?
     Reply #44 - January 03, 2010, 03:39 PM


    More revelations. Quite incredible.  Read it all.


    +++++++++++


    The Sunday Telegraph can disclose new details of radical Muslim speakers who have been invited to events organised by University College London's Islamic society, the organisation headed by Abdulmutallab when he was an undergraduate at the institution in 2006-07.

    Whitehall sources have confirmed MI5 is investigating Abdulmutallab's possible links with other radical individuals at UCL and with Islamic student societies at other universities.
     
    The Sunday Telegraph has also learned that Muslim students at UCL, at the time of Abdulmutallab's presidency of the Islamic society, tried to win a change to the student union's constitution which would have watered down rules on anti-Semitism.

    The university's Jewish society was forced to launch a campaign to stop the motion in February 2007 which, bizarrely, aimed to include Islamophobia in the definition of anti-Semitism.

    Harrison Cohen, a member of the Jewish society committee at the time and later president of the same organisation, said: "We feel that anti-Semitism is different in character to other forms of racism. We were concerned by this motion and rallied everyone we knew.

    "I cannot remember if Abdulmutallab was on the list of proposers or seconders, but as president of the Islamic society at the time it is likely that he would have been."

    Abdulmutallab, the attempted bomber of Flight 253, was the fourth president of a university Islamic society to face terror charges in the last three years. Others include Yassin Nassari, jailed for three years in 2007, and another man who is awaiting retrial on charges that he was involved in the 2006 airliner bomb plot.

    Kafeel Ahmed, who died of horrific burns after driving a Jeep packed with gas canisters into Glasgow airport in 2007, had been president of the Islamic society at Queen's University, Belfast.

    Some of the radical speakers invited to UCL by Abdulmutallab's organisation spoke on UCL property, raising concerns over whether the university authorities have taken sufficient measures to prevent radicalisation on the campus.

    It was already known that Abdulmutallab organised an event in January 2007, which featured a number of controversial speakers but The Sunday Telegraph has uncovered details of a series of speakers to have appeared there, some of whom spoke while Abdulmutallab was still a UCL undergraduate.

    At UCL's Islamic society's Islamic Awareness Week in February 2008 invited speakers included Abu Mujahid, who has incited Muslims to condemn homosexuals because Allah "hates" them.

    Other Muslim radicals who have challenged the theory of evolution were also invited to take part in the event, which took place on UCL property, ironically in the university's Darwin Lecture Theatre.

    Murtaza Khan, who was filmed in a television documentary delivering a diatribe against Jews, Christians and "filthy non-Muslim doctors", was invited to speak at the another event entitled Pearls of Wisdom in December 2007.

    Abu Usamah, an extremist cleric born in the US who converted to Islam, was invited to speak at the same event and an internet video "scrapbook" of the event features a recording of his voice. The event took place on university premises.

    The preacher has suggested that homosexuals and opponents of Islam should be killed. A 2007 Channel Four documentary secretly filmed Abu Usamah, of Birmingham's Green Lane mosque, praising Osama bin Laden and saying: "If I were to call homosexuals perverted, dirty, filthy dogs who should be murdered, that's my freedom of speech, isn't it?"

    When Abu Usamah was again invited to appear at UCL last year (2009) concerns led to him being barred by the university authorities.

    Several other events planned for last year were only cancelled after pressure from campaign groups such as the Centre for Social Cohesion, including an appearance by Abu Usama Adh Dhahabee, a hard-line preacher who advocates holy war and hatred against non-Muslims.

    Abu Dhahabee did, however, speak at an event organised by the Islamic society at another institution, the University of East London, last June.

    The Union of Jewish Students (UJS) yesterday called for the higher education sector to launch a new crackdown on campus Islamism.

    A spokesman for the group said: "Too often university authorities have taken no action, preferring to hide behind the banner of free speech and ignoring the fact that a speaker may be propagating hate or division on their campus.

    "Universities must drop the mantra of being only responsible for what happens in the lecture hall. The university experience is far wider and it is time that the entire higher education sector takes responsibility for it."

    She added: "The higher education sector should produce formal guidelines for universities on the issue of inviting dangerous speakers to our campuses.

    "UJS also urges other student providers such as the Federation of Student Islamic Societies to take responsibility for, and take action against those societies that they deem themselves representative of, who are consistently inviting radical hate speakers onto campus."

    Houriya Ahmed, of the Centre for Social Cohesion, said of Abdulmutallab's involvement with UCL Islamic Society: "This is not the first time that a terrorist has been involved with a university Islamic society.

    "There is no point denying that radicalisation can breed and take place at universities and it is about time that they take greater responsibility for the preachers of hate that are consistently given a platform in their own backyard."

    Professor Anthony Glees, professor of security and intelligence at the University of Buckinghamshire, has renewed concerns that money from Islamic countries, charities and benefactors is being accepted without proper checks by British universities.

    This newspaper revealed previous research by Prof Glees in April 2008 which claimed that extremist ideas were being spread by Islamic study centres linked to British universities and backed by multi-million-pound donations from Saudi Arabia and Muslim organisations.

    Updated research by the academic shows there has been ?260 million of Arab and Muslim investment in higher education in Britain in the last decade, of which ?157 million went into Islamic teaching, including construction of a number of Islamic studies centres.

    Prof Glees said: "The dangers are obvious of increasing the number of sites where people can be radicalised. I think there should be regulation of how universities can accept money in this way."

    No-one could be contacted from UCL Islamic Society.



    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/terrorism-in-the-uk/6924618/Revealed-the-true-extent-of-Islamic-radical-influence-at-UCL.html

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Why is Britain the centre of western jihadism & Islamic extremism?
     Reply #45 - January 03, 2010, 03:53 PM

    Right, so MI5 and in the US, the FBI should be keeping tabs on every campus ISOC and MSA.

    Yikes!  My ex-sister-in-law used to be the head honcho of the sisters ISOC at Manchester, and she's the most radical out of all my ex-in-laws.  Huh?

    Atheism is a non-prophet organization.

    The sleeper has awakened -  Dune

    Give a man a fish, and you'll feed him for a day Give him a religion, and he'll starve to death while praying for a fish!
  • Re: Why is Britain the centre of western jihadism & Islamic extremism?
     Reply #46 - January 03, 2010, 03:57 PM

    Btw do your ex's lot know you left Islam yet?  how did they take it?

    My Book     news002       
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  • Re: Why is Britain the centre of western jihadism & Islamic extremism?
     Reply #47 - January 03, 2010, 04:01 PM

    No, I haven't spoken to them in a couple of years.  I still speak to the ex but cut all ties with his family at his request once I asked for a divorce.  He knows that I no longer practice but still likes to think of me as a Muslim who has lapsed, I figure if he's happy with that belief than let it be.

    Atheism is a non-prophet organization.

    The sleeper has awakened -  Dune

    Give a man a fish, and you'll feed him for a day Give him a religion, and he'll starve to death while praying for a fish!
  • Re: Why is Britain the centre of western jihadism & Islamic extremism?
     Reply #48 - January 03, 2010, 04:06 PM

    Right, so MI5 and in the US, the FBI should be keeping tabs on every campus ISOC and MSA.


    MI5 has to monitor whoever it has to monitor according to its security judgments. I just want to chronicle and discuss in this thread why extremism and jihadism is so prevalent in Britain. Four presidents of British university Islamic societies involved in major terrorist attacks in the last few years points to something that anyone who has spent time on major campuses in Britain in the last decade and half knows intuitively, that there is an abnormal amount of Islamism and jihadi apologia and revivalism going on here at higher education institutions.

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Why is Britain the centre of western jihadism & Islamic extremism?
     Reply #49 - January 03, 2010, 04:10 PM


    I think we'll see from the usual suspects now, accusations of the media and politicians demonising Muslims and Islam, by confronting this issue. Its the same old story - scrutinising and confronting extremism is the actual cause of the extremism.


    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Why is Britain the centre of western jihadism & Islamic extremism?
     Reply #50 - January 03, 2010, 04:14 PM

    Right, so MI5 and in the US, the FBI should be keeping tabs on every campus ISOC and MSA.


    What does "keeping tabs" mean? In the US, certain kinds of surveillance, like wiretapping, can only be done* with a court issuing a warrant. And conducting surveillance on organizations based purely on their religious creed would be patently unconstitutional.

    ----

    *I mean to say that doing otherwise would be unconstitutional, but that doesn't mean the Feds do not perform unconstitutional surveillance-- it's been proven that they have engaged in illegal surveillance very recently, as well as in the past.

    fuck you
  • Re: Why is Britain the centre of western jihadism & Islamic extremism?
     Reply #51 - January 05, 2010, 01:22 PM



    Harry's Place has more on the Nigerian underpants-jihadi, his associates in London, and an absolute sickener - how an organisation that campaigns for Islamist prisoners and advocates for the likes of Shaikh Faisal who was imprisoned for preaching that Muslims have an obligation to kill Jews and Hindus on the street, and for the jihadi preacher who counselled the Fort Hood killer and the Nigerian wannabe bomber, al Awlaki, is receiving 170,000 pounds in sponsorship from a supposedly progressive charity, the Joseph Roundtree Trust - apparently because of work to create understanding between non Muslims and Muslims.

    It paints a picture of sections of British society with their heads collectively in the sand, and fucking clueless about Islamic extremism. They are cosseted and given help by idiots on the left and in liberal society who are played like saps by the Islamists. Read it all here:

    http://www.hurryupharry.org/2010/01/04/the-underpants-bomber-cageprisoners-and-their-dupes/

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Why is Britain the centre of western jihadism & Islamic extremism?
     Reply #52 - January 05, 2010, 08:44 PM

    I blame temples / mosques / asian TV channels and Indian music for brainwashing people against Western society and British culture.

    A lot of people who live their lives according to foreign cultures absolutely hate Britain and Western culture, and some of those people then act out on that hatred.

    Multiculturalism has ruined Britain.

    We keep hearing about how Jack Straw or the French government have mentioned the veil and our doing so puts us in the same boat as them. How so? I want a ban on the burka, neqab and child veiling.

    you can either defend women or you must defend Islam. You can’t defend both

    - Maryam Namaze
  • Re: Why is Britain the centre of western jihadism & Islamic extremism?
     Reply #53 - January 05, 2010, 09:59 PM

    Quote
    I blame temples / mosques / asian TV channels and Indian music


     Cheesy


    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Why is Britain the centre of western jihadism & Islamic extremism?
     Reply #54 - January 05, 2010, 11:42 PM

    I blame temples / mosques / asian TV channels and Indian music for brainwashing people against Western society and British culture.

    A lot of people who live their lives according to foreign cultures absolutely hate Britain and Western culture, and some of those people then act out on that hatred.

    Multiculturalism has ruined Britain.


    Reminds me a bit of what Rabbi Sacks said about his forefathers who were from Poland; wondering whether his family would have integrated if there was no need to learn English and integrate into the landscape. Immigrants need to ask themselves; are they immigrating to become woven into the fabric of British society or are they immigrating to creating a mini-India, mini-Pakistan, mini-Bangladesh etc. with all the 'wonderful' backward traditions like acid throwing, forced marriage and FGM.

    "It's just a job. Grass grows, birds fly, waves pound the sand. I beat people up." - Muhammad Ali
  • Re: Why is Britain the centre of western jihadism & Islamic extremism?
     Reply #55 - January 05, 2010, 11:57 PM

    or are they immigrating to creating a mini-India, mini-Pakistan, mini-Bangladesh with all the 'wonderful' backward traditions like acid throwing, forced marriage and FGM.


    Do Indo-Brits indulge in a lot of acid throwing and female genital mutilation or is this another case of Kaiwai making shit up?

    Iblis has mad debaterin' skillz. Best not step up unless you're prepared to recieve da pain.

  • Re: Why is Britain the centre of western jihadism & Islamic extremism?
     Reply #56 - January 06, 2010, 12:00 AM



    Kaiwai, Forced Genital Mutilation is not an issue amongst Muslims from Asia. It simply does not exist amongst them. FGM is an issue amongst some African Muslims (and even some non Muslim African groups)

    Jihadism and extremism is rooted in very specific ideological precepts that are identifiable, disseminated by individuals and groups that can be observed and traced and countered. Often the atmospherics amongst some Muslims gives a kind of default, tacit fertility to these dogmas and ideologies -  and often the insularity of some communities in some parts of society helps to create a culture of victimhood and self-alienation that contributes to this.

    It is something that people in civil society, especially amongst liberals and on the Left have to become attuned to - because as I have shown on this thread, it is a perpetual problem. Islamists couch their ideology and rhetoric in the language and spirit of progressive politics, and so on and so on. They also sometimes use the game of identity politics as a lever for their work. All of these things have to be addressed.

    But that doesn't mean that all Muslims or ethnic minorities are culpable by their presence in British society for the dynamics of jihadism - to do so is reductive and innacurate. Tosay that is to implicate 90% of the people on this site in those dynamics, for a start. This 'multiculturalism has raped Britain' argument is the starting point of a nativist attack on them collectively. I for one will never allow that to happen.






    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Why is Britain the centre of western jihadism & Islamic extremism?
     Reply #57 - January 06, 2010, 12:11 AM

    Kaiwai, Forced Genital Mutilation is not an issue amongst Muslims from Asia. It simply does not exist amongst them. FGM is an issue amongst some African Muslims (and even some non Muslim African groups)


    I never said it was; obviously the list of 'mini' could be extended further beyond just those three countries hence the etc after the list.

    Quote
    Jihadism and extremism is rooted in very specific ideological precepts that are identifiable, disseminated by individuals and groups that can be observed and traced and countered. Often the atmospherics amongst some Muslims gives a kind of default, tacit fertility to these dogmas and ideologies -  and often the insularity of some communities in some parts of society helps to create a culture of victimhood and self-alienation that contributes to this.

    It is something that people in civil society, especially amongst liberals and on the Left have to become attuned to - because as I have shown on this thread, it is a perpetual problem. Islamists couch their ideology and rhetoric in the language and spirit of progressive politics, and so on and so on. They also sometimes use the game of identity politics as a lever for their work. All of these things have to be addressed.

    But that doesn't mean that all Muslims or ethnic minorities are culpable by their presence in British society for the dynamics of jihadism - to do so is reductive and innacurate. Tosay that is to implicate 90% of the people on this site in those dynamics, for a start. This 'multiculturalism has raped Britain' argument is the starting point of a nativist attack on them collectively. I for one will never allow that to happen.


    The counter point to  'multiculturalism has raped Britain' I have heard from large number of Muslims as expressed by Dyub Abu Jahjah:

    "We do not want to assimilate. Assimilation is cultural rape." - Dyub Abu Jahjah, Arab European League Founder

    Nice to see how there is a one way street when it comes to courtesy; go to a Muslim country and women are expected to cover up and behave 'respectably' and yet if there is the slightest expectation of assimilation it is branded 'cultural rape'.

    "It's just a job. Grass grows, birds fly, waves pound the sand. I beat people up." - Muhammad Ali
  • Re: Why is Britain the centre of western jihadism & Islamic extremism?
     Reply #58 - January 06, 2010, 12:16 AM


    You see Kaiwai, why are you quoting that nutcase on my thread, as if you projecting the nativist argument of collective culpability of non white people by their very presence in Britain can be rendered irrelevant, simply by doing so? Moreover, why do you quote it at me, as if I am some kind of sap unaware of those kinds of attitudes? Especially in light of all that I have said and argued on this site during my presence here, and what I actually said in my last post, too?





    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Why is Britain the centre of western jihadism & Islamic extremism?
     Reply #59 - January 06, 2010, 01:12 AM

    You see Kaiwai, why are you quoting that nutcase on my thread, as if you projecting the nativist argument of collective culpability of non white people by their very presence in Britain can be rendered irrelevant, simply by doing so? Moreover, why do you quote it at me, as if I am some kind of sap unaware of those kinds of attitudes? Especially in light of all that I have said and argued on this site during my presence here, and what I actually said in my last post, too?


    I quoted the nut case because in your post you're trying to claim as if there was some sort of inbuilt nativism that exists in the unwashed masses. I simply pointed out that the attitude was mutual and probably a lot more common within those respective communities than mainstream society would care to admit.

    With that being said, it would be interesting to know why Canada, America, New Zealand, Australia - for example, aren't facing the same problems as the UK are.

    "It's just a job. Grass grows, birds fly, waves pound the sand. I beat people up." - Muhammad Ali
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