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Theme Changer

 Poll

  • Question: Should men have the right to have a baby aborted when they're not ready for it?
  • Yes - 10 (19.6%)
  • No - 41 (80.4%)
  • Total Voters: 51

 Topic: Men's right to abortions

 (Read 55896 times)
  • Previous page 1 ... 3 4 56 7 ... 19 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Re: Men's right to abortions
     Reply #120 - December 30, 2009, 02:56 AM
    Quote from: liberated on December 30, 2009, 02:12 AM
    I'm sure when abortions were first talked about people thought of them as wacko and weird too!

    Try to think about what I'm saying with an open mind. A man has biological right over the child just like the woman does. A man has a right to not become a father if he is not ready. An early-stage abortion is a humane and pain-free procedure, relatively easy especially for a woman who is ready to go through childbirth.


    It's a trite, vapid argument which has been given more consideration than it has ever deserved TBQH.

    She's the one getting impregnated not the other way round. Simple, no?

    Besides, responsibility applies to both biological parents. If a man has a 'biological right' to fatherhood, then he also has the other trappings of fatherhood.

    What you seem to be saying is men should be able bang up women as much as they want without taking any responsibility. It essentially means that men should have *all* the rights, and women none, even as you cry of men's rights being 'trampled'.

    By the way, any sensible social policy won't make contribution to upkeep financially crippling to the father, especially if augmented by welfare.
    "...every imperfection in man is a bond with heaven..." - Karl Marx
  • Re: Men's right to abortions
     Reply #121 - December 30, 2009, 03:17 AM
    Quote
    She's the one getting impregnated not the other way round. Simple, no?


    Its my sperm that impregnated her, a child that will end up looking like me, sharing my DNA, and possibly requiring my child suport as well. Hence I have a biological right over that child as much as the woman does. Simple, no?

    Quote
    What you seem to be saying is men should be able bang up women as much as they want without taking any responsibility. It essentially means that men should have *all* the rights, and women none, even as you cry of men's rights being 'trampled'.


    Right now the law says that women can bang up all they want while they can get an abortion anytime they get pregnant even though its oh so traumatic to kill a 4 week old fetus in a laser surgery operation  mysmilie_977. I just want equality to this law, both parents should equally have the right to abort the child if they don't want it, not just women.
  • Re: Men's right to abortions
     Reply #122 - December 30, 2009, 03:23 AM
    Refer to the second line of my previous post, then.

    If what you said were to take place, which you're not sure you agree with yourself it seems, then it abrogates the principle that women have the right to choose in the first place. Are you saying men can veto an abortion, or birth?
    "...every imperfection in man is a bond with heaven..." - Karl Marx
  • Re: Men's right to abortions
     Reply #123 - December 30, 2009, 03:26 AM
    @liberated,

    Whatever your views.. please, for you own sake, do not mention these views of yours in RL female company.
    Quote from: thinkfree on September 28, 2010, 07:58 PM
    Iblis has mad debaterin' skillz. Best not step up unless you're prepared to recieve da pain.

  • Re: Men's right to abortions
     Reply #124 - December 30, 2009, 03:28 AM
    Quote from: panoptic on December 30, 2009, 03:23 AM
    Refer to the second line of my previous post, then.

    If what you said were to take place, which you're not sure you agree with yourself it seems, then it abrogates the principle that women have the right to choose in the first place. Are you saying men can veto an abortion, or birth?


    What second line? Clarify please..
    And I am talking only about aborting the child if they don't want it, and also only in the early stages of pregnancy when the abortion will be relatively simpler and pain-free. Obviously forcing a woman to keep the child and go through childbirth is inhumane and i don't agree with it.
  • Re: Men's right to abortions
     Reply #125 - December 30, 2009, 03:29 AM
    Quote from: Kafirist on December 30, 2009, 03:26 AM
    @liberated,

    Whatever your views.. please, for you own sake, do not mention these views of yours in RL female company.


    On the contrary, liberated, please make sure you share your views with every woman you come across, especially if you are attracted to her. Seriously, for the sake of her, and any kids you may have with her.
    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
  • Re: Men's right to abortions
     Reply #126 - December 30, 2009, 03:37 AM
    Quote from: liberated on December 30, 2009, 03:28 AM
    And I am talking only about aborting the child if they don't want it


    Are you really serious? Have you actually thought about what you're saying?

    So, then: if women aren't forced to get an abortion, whatever their feelings are, if men say so, "men's  biological rights" are being trampled over? WAT
    "...every imperfection in man is a bond with heaven..." - Karl Marx
  • Re: Men's right to abortions
     Reply #127 - December 30, 2009, 03:39 AM
    Lets focus on the topic at hand instead of giving me counselling on my dating life  Roll Eyes
  • Re: Men's right to abortions
     Reply #128 - December 30, 2009, 03:40 AM
    Liberated, seriously now. You are talking about abortion like it's no big deal, just a procedure when that's not the case at all. And not everywhere the law allows a woman to simply abort a child. As I said previously, this is not a resolved issue.
    And you talk like no-one should care after having an abortion. It's not how it works.
    tea and cake or death!!!

    "Dear Josh, we came by to fuck you, but you were not home. Therefore... you are gay."  Ghost World
  • Re: Men's right to abortions
     Reply #129 - December 30, 2009, 03:40 AM
    Quote from: panoptic on December 30, 2009, 03:37 AM
    Are you really serious? Have you actually thought about what you're saying?

    So, then: if women aren't forced to get an abortion, whatever their feelings are, if men say so, "men's  biological rights" are being trampled over? WAT


    I can't comprehend your 2nd sentence.. can you explain it again?
  • Re: Men's right to abortions
     Reply #130 - December 30, 2009, 03:42 AM
    Quote from: trumora on December 30, 2009, 03:40 AM
    Liberated, seriously now. You are talking about abortion like it's no big deal, just a procedure when that's not the case at all. And not everywhere the law allows a woman to simply abort a child. As I said previously, this is not a resolved issue.
    And you talk like no-one should care after having an abortion. It's not how it works.


    If you want to debate pro-life VS pro-choice please go elsewhere. This thread is generally for debate between the pro-choice people. A fetus is not a baby, if it is then I kill millions of babies everytime I have sex because every drop of my semen contains millions of sperm which can become a baby, just like an unborn fetus can become a baby. Anyway, not the place for that debate here in this thread
  • Re: Men's right to abortions
     Reply #131 - December 30, 2009, 03:44 AM
    Quote from: liberated on December 30, 2009, 03:40 AM
    I can't comprehend your 2nd sentence.. can you explain it again?


    hmmm....

    Are you trolling, perchance?

    Either way, I don't think I'm gonna bother.
    "...every imperfection in man is a bond with heaven..." - Karl Marx
  • Re: Men's right to abortions
     Reply #132 - December 30, 2009, 03:49 AM
    Quote from: liberated on December 30, 2009, 03:42 AM
    If you want to debate pro-life VS pro-choice please go elsewhere. This thread is generally for debate between the pro-choice people. A fetus is not a baby, if it is then I kill millions of babies everytime I have sex because every drop of my semen contains millions of sperm which can become a baby, just like an unborn fetus can become a baby. Anyway, not the place for that debate here in this thread


    Dear, I'm not here to debate pro-life or pro-choice. I couldn't care less if you are pro or against it. My personal feelings don't matter. I'm saying that LEGALLY abortion procedures are not available or optional everywhere. And you state like women have this right everywhere in the world in a safe legal manner and it's not like that at all.

    I'm saying abortion is NOT a resolved issue. I don't know if the fetus can be considered a baby and I don't care. That's not the point at all and you have no need to be rude or twist people's words for your own agenda.

    The point is you talk like abortion is just a procedure. It's not, ok? Regardeless of feelings about it. You talk with no respect for how some people feel after it talking like they are drama queens using the  mysmilie_977 emoticon for it. And that's add to the whole debate here because it's the woman who will take the procedure and not the man. People have been talking about this all over this thread. It's like I force you to make a vasectomy when you don't want to. Women don't have this right either.
    tea and cake or death!!!

    "Dear Josh, we came by to fuck you, but you were not home. Therefore... you are gay."  Ghost World
  • Re: Men's right to abortions
     Reply #133 - December 30, 2009, 03:51 AM
    Btw, I have absolutely no idea where you took from that sentence I wrote that I was starting a pro-life pro-choice discussion. I'm really puzzled by your crazy interpretation of what I wrote.
    tea and cake or death!!!

    "Dear Josh, we came by to fuck you, but you were not home. Therefore... you are gay."  Ghost World
  • Re: Men's right to abortions
     Reply #134 - December 30, 2009, 03:55 AM
    I apologize if I came off rude there. I do think abortion is very much a procedure and women get overly dramatic about it sometimes. I think I have a right to express my opinions. We can agree to disagree there.

    Of course there are many countries where abortion is not legalized even for women and there my argument for men's right to abortion will of course be rejected right away. But I'm talking mostly about the developed nations with good respect for human rights who do allow abortion for women.

    Our thoughts are different on whether abortion is a procedure or not, and if its not, whether its really as traumatic that it can leave a woman clinically depressed for years. But that's cool, people disagree all the time and we can politely disagree on that topic Smiley
  • Re: Men's right to abortions
     Reply #135 - December 30, 2009, 04:04 AM
    Quote from: liberated on December 30, 2009, 03:55 AM
    I apologize if I came off rude there. I do think abortion is very much a procedure and women get overly dramatic about it sometimes.


    I'm sorry, but I have to give you the cliche answer "it's because you are not a woman". I hate saying things like that, but it applies here. Please read this when you have time:

    http://www.pregnancycenters.org/abortion.html

    The reason why also I'm very annoyed with your answer is that I have a dear friend who went through a legal and not invasive abortion and now she is infertile. She will never be able to conceive again. And that happens more often than you think.

    tea and cake or death!!!

    "Dear Josh, we came by to fuck you, but you were not home. Therefore... you are gay."  Ghost World
  • Re: Men's right to abortions
     Reply #136 - December 30, 2009, 04:49 AM
    Did your friend have a late abortion or an early one, trumora? Keep in mind I'm only in favor of man being given this right upto around the 10th-15th week of pregnancy
  • Re: Men's right to abortions
     Reply #137 - December 30, 2009, 04:53 AM
    Quote from: liberated on December 30, 2009, 04:49 AM
    Did your friend have a late abortion or an early one, trumora? Keep in mind I'm only in favor of man being given this right upto around the 10th-15th week of pregnancy


    Early. That's why it was a medical non-surgical procedure. This happens with some women, especially when infertility already runs in the family.



    edit: i meant some
    tea and cake or death!!!

    "Dear Josh, we came by to fuck you, but you were not home. Therefore... you are gay."  Ghost World
  • Re: Men's right to abortions
     Reply #138 - December 30, 2009, 04:54 AM
    Strange. I'm sorry to hear that.
  • Re: Men's right to abortions
     Reply #139 - December 30, 2009, 05:39 AM
    Quote from: liberated on December 30, 2009, 04:54 AM
    Strange. I'm sorry to hear that.


    It's due to the hormones contained in these drugs. She knew the risk and thought was too low. Well... even low it's still there.

    Don't take me wrong. I'm against abortion only for myself. In fact I think it should be legalized so good and accurate information can be avaible. also it becomes safer and less sketchy.
    tea and cake or death!!!

    "Dear Josh, we came by to fuck you, but you were not home. Therefore... you are gay."  Ghost World
  • Re: Men's right to abortions
     Reply #140 - December 30, 2009, 08:27 AM
    I am so glad only crazy people like you, with no political power whatsoever, think up these stupid selfish ideas.  Limited to the keyboard rant that you are, your suggestion, thank fuck, will never become a reality.  Afro
    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: Men's right to abortions
     Reply #141 - December 30, 2009, 08:34 AM
    Ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm................


    What makes you say only people with no political power think up batshit crazy ideas?
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Men's right to abortions
     Reply #142 - December 30, 2009, 08:35 AM
    Quote from: osmanthus on December 30, 2009, 08:34 AM
    What makes you say only people with no political power think up batshit crazy ideas?


    True. They've thought up such ideas themselves. And worse.
    "...every imperfection in man is a bond with heaven..." - Karl Marx
  • Re: Men's right to abortions
     Reply #143 - December 30, 2009, 08:45 AM
    Quote from: osmanthus on December 30, 2009, 08:34 AM
    Ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm................


    What makes you say only people with no political power think up batshit crazy ideas?


    I don't, I merely meant that thank fuck this nutcase here has none.  If there are twats saying we should force abortions on women to protect mens rights who are in political power, lets use this thread to name and shame them?  Wink
    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: Men's right to abortions
     Reply #144 - December 30, 2009, 10:24 AM
    Quote from: liberated on December 29, 2009, 07:09 PM
    I've heard that there are other ways to abort such as pills, laser technology which doesn't hurt, etc.


    Or vacuum hoses, or clothes hangars, or lots of beer and heroin, or pushing the chick down a flight of stairs, kicking her in the stomach repeatedly, etc.

    You so crazy, liberated. I mean seriously, the topic of this thread is completely fuckin nuts, but luckily I have a very sick sense of humor which is allowing me to find this entertaining rather than morally objectionable, though it is clearly both.
    fuck you
  • Re: Men's right to abortions
     Reply #145 - December 30, 2009, 10:35 AM
    1-If they are married or registered cohabitants, the woman must have absolutely full rights and the husband must not be able to make her have an abortion. He also must fulfil his duties as a father and in case of divorce must pay child support.

    2-If they are not married or registered cohabitants, the woman should still have full exclusive rights. However, I think there should be a law which enables a man to go to court and request the woman sign a paper taking full responsibility for the child in case she wants to have it and he doesn't therefore exempting the father from his duties. He still doesn't have a right to make her have an abortion irrespective of his "feelings" and she still has complete control over her body. There should be a provision that in case of danger to the mother's health, the father cannot request such an exemption and must suck it up. This of course only absolves the financial duty so put in mind the man will always feel guilty even if he decided to proceed with the exemption.

    There should also be a law that obligates the woman to inform the possible father(s) of the pregnancy as soon as she herself learns about it. In fact the clinic/hospital should request her to list the possible fathers after the doctor tells her about the pregnancy. Of course she should be given a week or so to think about it without having to tell anyone and if she decides to abort she can do it without informing anyone.


    The logic behind the first case is, if the man decided to get married or commit to a long-term relationship he must understand that having children is normal and expected anytime and must therefore accept full responsibility.
    The logic behind the second one, is that dating and subsequently sexual intercourse is no longer a "favor" that the woman grants for the man. We now know that both men and women are equal, both have lust, and get pleasure from sexual intercourse. Therefore, they should share the responsibility together and equally.

    The only flaw in this proposal is that she might have had more than one recent sexual partner and therefore we cannot know who the father is at an early stage.

    And just so you know I voted NO.  Because a man should NEVER UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES have the right to make a woman have an abortion.


    Peace
  • Re: Men's right to abortions
     Reply #146 - December 30, 2009, 10:35 AM
    I can add another comment to this.

    A friend of mine had a miscarriage because her ex pushed her. He didn't want to have the baby, she refused to abort. She said she was then forced to abort, and it took ages, for the foetus to, I'm not even sure what the word is, delivered? She had to take medicine, and stand up and wait for it.... Jesus Wept. I felt like killing the guy, and she told me she had moved past this BUT NOT PAST THE FACT THAT SHE WANTED TO HAVE THIS CHILD. She used the words "I wanted my baby", and the expression on her face when she said this.. well you should imagine. This was a forced abortion.
  • Re: Men's right to abortions
     Reply #147 - December 30, 2009, 10:41 AM
    One other thing: this same principle is also used by so-called "pro-life" men.
    "...every imperfection in man is a bond with heaven..." - Karl Marx
  • Re: Men's right to abortions
     Reply #148 - December 30, 2009, 10:42 AM
    Quote from: Iraqi Atheist on December 30, 2009, 10:35 AM


    2-If they are not married or registered cohabitants, the woman should still have full exclusive rights. However, I think there should be a law which enables a man to go to court and request the woman sign a paper taking full responsibility for the child in case she wants to have it and he doesn't therefore exempting the father from his duties.


    I agree with this, not only to exempt him from financial support of the chil, but also from having anything to do with the child.  If he doesn't want to be a part of that childs life and would prefer the baby was killed in womb, then he shouldn't be able to party for 5yrs, get it out of his sytem and then come looking for that child he was't interested in to start off with.

    You know what cracks me up, liberated's outdated belief that men provide for the child lol in my world most of the women are single mothers with fathers who pay zero child support. 

    My ex husband gives me nothing towards our 3 childrens since the moment they were born and long after the divorce.  Roll Eyes

    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: Men's right to abortions
     Reply #149 - December 30, 2009, 10:44 AM
    Quote from: BlackDog on December 30, 2009, 10:35 AM
    I can add another comment to this.

    A friend of mine had a miscarriage because her ex pushed her. He didn't want to have the baby, she refused to abort. She said she was then forced to abort, and it took ages, for the foetus to, I'm not even sure what the word is, delivered? She had to take medicine, and stand up and wait for it.... Jesus Wept. I felt like killing the guy, and she told me she had moved past this BUT NOT PAST THE FACT THAT SHE WANTED TO HAVE THIS CHILD. She used the words "I wanted my baby", and the expression on her face when she said this.. well you should imagine. This was a forced abortion.


    Liberated clearly has no experience supporting someone through an abortion, so he has no clue how much damage is done when the abortion is a forced/coerced one.  I have been with a few of my female friends when they had abortions, they cry the moment they wake up, even the ones who wanted it.

    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
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