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 Topic: 4:34 or 4:43, which is worse?

 (Read 7217 times)
  • 1« Previous thread | Next thread »
  • 4:34 or 4:43, which is worse?
     OP - February 01, 2010, 09:44 AM
    Quote from: 4:43
    O ye who believe! Approach not prayers with a mind befogged, until ye can understand all that ye say,- nor in a state of ceremonial impurity (Except when travelling on the road), until after washing your whole body. If ye are ill, or on a journey, or one of you cometh from offices of nature (having a shit), or ye have been in contact with women, and ye find no water, then take for yourselves clean sand or earth, and rub therewith your faces and hands. For Allah doth blot out sins and forgive again and again. (4:43)


    OK beating a woman (see sura 4:34) is a very terrible thing to do... But having a shit is equal to touching a woman? Wuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuttttttt?  Cheesy
    ...
  • Re: 4:34 or 4:43, which is worse?
     Reply #1 - February 01, 2010, 09:56 AM
    lol
  • Re: 4:34 or 4:43, which is worse?
     Reply #2 - February 01, 2010, 10:41 AM
    Does the same rule apply for women who have touched men???

    So much for the Qu'ran being addressed to both men and women, as the dawahgandists always say it is!  finmad
    Atheism is a non-prophet organization.

    The sleeper has awakened -  Dune

    Give a man a fish, and you'll feed him for a day Give him a religion, and he'll starve to death while praying for a fish!
  • Re: 4:34 or 4:43, which is worse?
     Reply #3 - February 01, 2010, 12:23 PM
    4:34 and 4:43, I wonder what gems does sura 3:44 have?  Cheesy
    ...
  • Re: 4:34 or 4:43, which is worse?
     Reply #4 - February 01, 2010, 02:51 PM
    Quote from: RIBS on February 01, 2010, 09:44 AM
    OK beating a woman (see sura 4:34) is a very terrible thing to do... But having a shit is equal to touching a woman? Wuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuttttttt?  Cheesy

    What I find just as outstanding is quran doesnt tell us what age to marry women, how to raise children, how to cure cancer, yet it tells us how to wash our hands in case we run out of water  Huh?
    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: 4:34 or 4:43, which is worse?
     Reply #5 - February 01, 2010, 05:09 PM
    I think 'touching' here implies sex  Cheesy

    This Ayat is about Tayyammum (dry ablution) if water isnt around.

    Since a ghusl bath after sex is obligatory for anyone to pray or fast, then here clean sand will do if water isnt available.

    Not germs.
    Pakistan Zindabad? ya Pakistan sey Zinda bhaag?

    Long Live Pakistan? Or run with your lives from Pakistan?
  • Re: 4:34 or 4:43, which is worse?
     Reply #6 - February 01, 2010, 05:41 PM
    Quote from: atheist.pk on February 01, 2010, 05:09 PM
    I think 'touching' here implies sex  Cheesy


    I don't think so. Quran have on many occasions mentioned sex very explicitly with an 18+ rating stuff. Here it says touched women. I guess from here the Burqa and Gloves sprung to existence or reinforced back if they were there before Islam.
    ...
  • Re: 4:34 or 4:43, which is worse?
     Reply #7 - February 01, 2010, 05:44 PM
    Quote from: IsLame on February 01, 2010, 02:51 PM
    What I find just as outstanding is quran doesnt tell us what age to marry women, how to raise children, how to cure cancer, yet it tells us how to wash our hands in case we run out of water  Huh?


    lol

    The bizzaro world of Islam. Where the ethics of rape is not worthy of mention, but Allah will point out how women need to shut the fuck up or get the beats.
    Quote from: thinkfree on September 28, 2010, 07:58 PM
    Iblis has mad debaterin' skillz. Best not step up unless you're prepared to recieve da pain.

  • Re: 4:34 or 4:43, which is worse?
     Reply #8 - February 02, 2010, 02:35 AM
    Quote from: RIBS on February 01, 2010, 05:41 PM
    I don't think so. Quran have on many occasions mentioned sex very explicitly with an 18+ rating stuff. Here it says touched women. I guess from here the Burqa and Gloves sprung to existence or reinforced back if they were there before Islam.


    Like?  Smiley
    "We were married by a Reform rabbi in Long Island. A very Reform rabbi. A Nazi."-- Woody Allen
  • Re: 4:34 or 4:43, which is worse?
     Reply #9 - February 02, 2010, 04:23 AM
    Dear Angel, the Arabic word that Quran uses for marrying is "Nekah". Nekah in arabic is exactly the same as "fuck", I for example find it extremely blushing to mention this word in front of an elder of my family. The street word for fuck which is extremely vulgar is "Neka". If you look up the Arabic Quran, you will find it always mention the word Nikah anot the word "Wed". Only in the translations the substitute the word Nekah and translate it to Wed.

    Oh i remember how much we giggled as school kids whenever the teacher said "Nekah"...

    The most famous aya (verse) is the one about: fuck as much as you want of women, two and three and four. Also the ones about men can fuck what their right hand poses.

    So I guess, since Allah has no problem saying "fuck" in many occasions, why would he say "touch" to imply sex?
    ...
  • Re: 4:34 or 4:43, which is worse?
     Reply #10 - February 02, 2010, 05:34 AM
    Oh, right, I forgot about that lol. Its come up in a few threads. This is why I need to learn how to read Arabic.
    "We were married by a Reform rabbi in Long Island. A very Reform rabbi. A Nazi."-- Woody Allen
  • Re: 4:34 or 4:43, which is worse?
     Reply #11 - February 02, 2010, 07:20 AM
    Quote from: RIBS on February 02, 2010, 04:23 AM
    Dear Angel, the Arabic word that Quran uses for marrying is "Nekah". Nekah in arabic is exactly the same as "fuck", I for example find it extremely blushing to mention this word in front of an elder of my family. The street word for fuck which is extremely vulgar is "Neka". If you look up the Arabic Quran, you will find it always mention the word Nikah anot the word "Wed". Only in the translations the substitute the word Nekah and translate it to Wed.

    Oh i remember how much we giggled as school kids whenever the teacher said "Nekah"...

    The most famous aya (verse) is the one about: fuck as much as you want of women, two and three and four. Also the ones about men can fuck what their right hand poses.

    So I guess, since Allah has no problem saying "fuck" in many occasions, why would he say "touch" to imply sex?


    Ribs how can that be the meaning of the 7th century though? Is it not possible the modern word turned into fuck? Ba' nikah in the words of the palestininans..
  • Re: 4:34 or 4:43, which is worse?
     Reply #12 - February 02, 2010, 09:32 AM
    Quote
    Make trial of orphans until they reach the age of marriage; if then ye find sound judgment in them, release their property to them; but consume it not wastefully, nor in haste against their growing up. If the guardian is well-off, Let him claim no remuneration, but if he is poor, let him have for himself what is just and reasonable. When ye release their property to them, take witnesses in their presence: But all-sufficient is Allah in taking account. (4:6)


    Here the word "Nekah" in the Arabic quran is translated "Marriage", however, there is nothing such as age of marriage in islam as we all know. Reaching the age of Nekah, is reaching (ejaculation age in men, and periods age in women). It is clearly the age were sex can be performed.

    Quote
    So if a husband divorces his wife (irrevocably), He cannot, after that, re-marry her until after she has married another husband and He has divorced her. In that case there is no blame on either of them if they re-unite, provided they feel that they can keep the limits ordained by Allah. Such are the limits ordained by Allah, which He makes plain to those who understand. (2:230) 


    Again we all know that in Islamic law, after the third divorce, the husband can not remarry his ex-wife unless she has sex with another man. The word for sex used here is "Nekah".


    Also, the quran clearly mention the words wife and husband and marriage in other suras.

    Quote
    When ye divorce women, and they fulfil the term of their ('Iddat), do not prevent them from marrying their (former) husbands, if they mutually agree on equitable terms. This instruction is for all amongst you, who believe in Allah and the Last Day. That is (the course Making for) most virtue and purity amongst you and Allah knows, and ye know not. (2:232)


    In the above verse, the word Nekah was mentioned to indicate that a wife can remarry her ex and have sexuall intercourse with him.

    Anyway, my point is Islam considers women to be a sex toy that will distract men from prayers or from staying in WUDO, so even touching them will make your wudo void, just like going to the toilet!  Afro
    ...
  • Re: 4:34 or 4:43, which is worse?
     Reply #13 - February 02, 2010, 10:14 AM
    This is beyond stupid. I almost want to not believe what you say simply because a religion can not be this stupid. How did this religion even get this far? What were the thoughts of the early arabic scholars then? What were their thoughts on this word?
  • Re: 4:34 or 4:43, which is worse?
     Reply #14 - February 02, 2010, 10:50 AM
    How did this religion get this far? I think poverty and iliteracy and ignorance and naievness are very good contributers in any reliogion. This goes for Jewdism and Christianity as well.

    Or else, why is it that it is usually scientists and buisness people who become agnostics and athiests. I guess, we here at COEM could be the brightests of our families! Afro or are we? Cheesy
    ...
  • Re: 4:34 or 4:43, which is worse?
     Reply #15 - February 02, 2010, 11:46 AM
    but is that really true that scientists and business people are atheists? even amongst muslims?
  • Re: 4:34 or 4:43, which is worse?
     Reply #16 - February 02, 2010, 01:50 PM
    The hidden closet atheists are not seen of course, but most Arab ex-Muslims however (like Dr Kamel Al-Najar, a surgeon living in UK) and many other vocal ex-Muslims are well educated. At home, it is the poorest people who are the strictest and most practicing Muslims. They are usually the Sunna followers, who are "Bearded" or "Niqabi" and most of the "well-to do" sector the ones who would not wear the Hijab. So I guess, one can have a good idea about the coleration between the social or educational status and believing in fairy tales.

    It is yet to be studied statistically though. I am just guessing from what I see!  Afro
    ...
  • Re: 4:34 or 4:43, which is worse?
     Reply #17 - February 02, 2010, 03:31 PM
    Quote from: BlackDog on February 02, 2010, 11:46 AM
    but is that really true that scientists and business people are atheists? even amongst muslims?


    A vast majority of scientists are either atheist, agnostic, or very loosely/liberally religious.
    Quote from: thinkfree on September 28, 2010, 07:58 PM
    Iblis has mad debaterin' skillz. Best not step up unless you're prepared to recieve da pain.

  • Re: 4:34 or 4:43, which is worse?
     Reply #18 - February 02, 2010, 11:13 PM
    Quote from: RIBS on February 02, 2010, 09:32 AM
    Anyway, my point is Islam considers women to be a sex toy that will distract men from prayers or from staying in WUDO, so even touching them will make your wudo void, just like going to the toilet!  Afro



    Quran author was clearly terrified of the pussy power.
    If you're so devout, how come I am not dead?
  • Re: 4:34 or 4:43, which is worse?
     Reply #19 - February 02, 2010, 11:24 PM
    In other words, the author of the quran had impotency issues
    At evening, casual flocks of pigeons make
    Ambiguous undulations as they sink,
    Downward to darkness, on extended wings. - Stevens
  • Re: 4:34 or 4:43, which is worse?
     Reply #20 - February 02, 2010, 11:33 PM
    Quote from: taraC on February 02, 2010, 11:13 PM
    Quran author was clearly terrified of the pussy power.

    Agreed.  I think he was suffering from an inferiority complex after his marriage to uber-powerful Khadijah, and wanted to redress the balance..
    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: 4:34 or 4:43, which is worse?
     Reply #21 - February 02, 2010, 11:39 PM
    Quote
    Agreed.  I think he was suffering from an inferiority complex after his marriage to uber-powerful Khadijah, and wanted to redress the balance..


    Yeah, she seemed to have a tight leash on him and didn't let him fool around with other women. He probably just married her for the money. What a golddigger..
    If you're so devout, how come I am not dead?
  • Re: 4:34 or 4:43, which is worse?
     Reply #22 - February 03, 2010, 01:52 AM
    Quote from: IsLame on February 02, 2010, 11:33 PM
    Agreed.  I think he was suffering from an inferiority complex after his marriage to uber-powerful Khadijah, and wanted to redress the balance..


    Islamic history is so poor, we realy don't have much details of Mo from his birth until he is 40. Thinking about it, 40 years is a lot of time for a chosen "profit" to not to have an interesting life.
    ...
  • Re: 4:34 or 4:43, which is worse?
     Reply #23 - February 03, 2010, 08:02 AM
    He was not anything remarkable really that's why. He was not a top poet, or warrior. He was mostly working in the desert as a young man, dealing with herds of animals. And then as a trader.
  • Re: 4:34 or 4:43, which is worse?
     Reply #24 - February 03, 2010, 11:21 PM
    Quote from: Nour on February 01, 2010, 10:41 AM
    Does the same rule apply for women who have touched men???

    So much for the Qu'ran being addressed to both men and women, as the dawahgandists always say it is!  finmad


    IDK, in the school of law that I followed, it did apply to women as well.  So if you touched your husband's  hand or something, you have to make wudu before you can pray again.  If your husband is hanafi or salafi or something else, then he doesn't. But you (the woman) still would (if you followed the same type of islam t hat I did)
    [this space for rent]
  • Re: 4:34 or 4:43, which is worse?
     Reply #25 - February 04, 2010, 06:28 AM
    Quote from: IsLame on February 01, 2010, 02:51 PM
    What I find just as outstanding is quran doesnt tell us what age to marry women, how to raise children, how to cure cancer, yet it tells us how to wash our hands in case we run out of water  Huh?

    Koran refers to boiling water 17 times for the purpose of boiling various parts of the body including internal parts. But not once does it allude to boiling water for the purpose of purifying the water. Imagine the Millions of lives that would have been saved, Billions if you consider if this had led to an earlier discovery of germs.

    "Ask the slave girl; she will tell you the truth.' So the Apostle called Burayra to ask her. Ali got up and gave her a violent beating first, saying, 'Tell the Apostle the truth.'"
  • Re: 4:34 or 4:43, which is worse?
     Reply #26 - February 04, 2010, 06:54 AM
    Quote from: Baal on February 04, 2010, 06:28 AM
    Koran refers to boiling water 17 times for the purpose of boiling various parts of the body including internal parts. But not once does it allude to boiling water for the purpose of purifying the water. Imagine the Millions of lives that would have been saved, Billions if you consider if this had led to an earlier discovery of germs.




     Afro
    ...
  • Re: 4:34 or 4:43, which is worse?
     Reply #27 - February 04, 2010, 08:30 AM
    Could i have a reference to one of these boiling water for torture verses please.

    Thanks
  • Re: 4:34 or 4:43, which is worse?
     Reply #28 - February 04, 2010, 08:41 AM
    Search for boil on this site:

    http://al-quran.info/

    You can also search in different translations.
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