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 Topic: Honor Killings v. Quran 4:15- sort of prolonged honor killings

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  • Re: Honor Killings v. Quran 4:15- sort of prolonged honor killings
     Reply #30 - February 22, 2010, 07:20 AM
    Quote from: Baal on February 22, 2010, 06:00 AM
    Koran is too small to make a religion. Koran does not contain enough information to explain itself even. This is why, muslims have to depend on books other than the koran. It really sucks for people like you, who are looking to save their dignity from the claptrap that exist in their culture/religion. But I am very sorry, the koran is not enough to make a religion.

    How do you know how to fast, how do you know how to pray, how do you know how to perform the hajj? how do you know the definition of zina, or fahisha, or noshooz? On which case do you apply whipping? What is nikah? is nikah marriage? how come? How do you even know how to do the 'Arkan - Corners of Islam' when the koran does not give enough information?

    You can keep protesting against the hadith all you want, muslims have an answer for you, 'Science of Hadith', and unfortunately, very unfortunately that is, the stoning in the hadith, does not contradict the whipping of the koran.

    Cheers and sorry if in this situation, reality, did not conform to your goal/wish in life.


    I love you dude. You moustache wearing motherfucker.
  • Re: Honor Killings v. Quran 4:15- sort of prolonged honor killings
     Reply #31 - February 22, 2010, 07:48 AM
    Quote from: BlackDog on February 22, 2010, 07:19 AM
    What you mean Ras? I have to take off this Agent Provocateur lingerie?!


    Oh yess I'd really like to see... I mean see that you are punished for that wicked sin against god of course...  Take them off and bend over boy, you're going to get a whipping.
    "Modern man's great illusion has been to convince himself that of all that has gone before he represents the zenith of human accomplishment, but can't summon the mental powers to read anything more demanding than emoticons. Fascinating. "

    One very horny Turk I met on the net.
  • Re: Honor Killings v. Quran 4:15- sort of prolonged honor killings
     Reply #32 - February 22, 2010, 07:50 AM
    Allah is a perv.
  • Re: Honor Killings v. Quran 4:15- sort of prolonged honor killings
     Reply #33 - February 22, 2010, 04:21 PM
    Quote from: iffo on February 22, 2010, 04:01 AM


    Quran over rules everything that came before.  Once we have quran we don't need guidence from any other previous sources, that will be putting down quran. Quran is complete. If god wanted us to stone the adulter  then he must have mentioned it.

    God says follow quran, not OT.
    Plus old books have been edited by men so we can not to rely on them.

    Like Baal said.  The cornerstone of Islam would not exist without the Hadith - think about the 5 Pillars of Islam - at best you could justify one pillar according to the Quran.  You could just about make a bird feeding table out of that..  the truth is Islam has been largely constructed out of the hadith, not the quran.

    You dont have a religion without hadith, you mostly have a creator who sent a postman called muhammed.. without the hadith, you just lost the mailbag
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  • Re: Honor Killings v. Quran 4:15- sort of prolonged honor killings
     Reply #34 - February 22, 2010, 04:26 PM
    Quote from: IsLame on February 22, 2010, 04:21 PM
    Like Baal said.  The cornerstone of Islam would not exist without the Hadith - think about the 5 Pillars of Islam - at best you could justify one pillar according to the Quran.  You could just about make a bird feeding table out of that..  the truth is Islam has been largely constructed out of the hadith, not the quran.

    You dont have a religion without hadith, you mostly have a creator who sent a postman called muhammed.. without the hadith, you just lost the mailbag


    I think I've mentioned this before, and I'm not batting for the other team, but the concept of the 5 pillars is taken from the hadith, without the hadith there is no concept of the 5 pillars so a quran only follower doesn't have to follow them.

    We keep saying without the hadith you have no explanation of the 5 pillars, but really without the hadith there is no need to even explain them.
    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: Honor Killings v. Quran 4:15- sort of prolonged honor killings
     Reply #35 - February 22, 2010, 04:44 PM
    Quote from: Baal on February 22, 2010, 06:00 AM
    Koran is too small to make a religion. Koran does not contain enough information to explain itself even. This is why, muslims have to depend on books other than the koran. It really sucks for people like you, who are looking to save their dignity from the claptrap that exist in their culture/religion. But I am very sorry, the koran is not enough to make a religion.

    How do you know how to fast, how do you know how to pray, how do you know how to perform the hajj? how do you know the definition of zina, or fahisha, or noshooz? On which case do you apply whipping? What is nikah? is nikah marriage? how come? How do you even know how to do the 'Arkan - Corners of Islam' when the koran does not give enough information?

    You can keep protesting against the hadith all you want, muslims have an answer for you, 'Science of Hadith', and unfortunately, very unfortunately that is, the stoning in the hadith, does not contradict the whipping of the koran.

    Cheers and sorry if in this situation, reality, did not conform to your goal/wish in life.


    Ruling has to come from Quran not from hadith. When quran say lashes, that's the final verdict.
    Any hadith after that means nothing.
  • Re: Honor Killings v. Quran 4:15- sort of prolonged honor killings
     Reply #36 - February 22, 2010, 04:50 PM
    Quote from: iffo on February 22, 2010, 04:44 PM
    Ruling has to come from Quran not from hadith. When quran say lashes, that's the final verdict.
    Any hadith after that means nothing.



    And you believe that 100 lashes is the correct punishment for fornication?  You agree with this and it sits well with you?

    To leave a back looking like this:



    Is ok with you for anyone who has sex without marriage?

    What would you use to lash the person?  any particular whip Islam recommends?

    Because certain whips cause death in less than 100 lashes.

    I mean, the quran does not give specifics does it?  it doesn;t tell you to space the lashes apart, it doesn;t limit what can be used to administer the lashing does it?
    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: Honor Killings v. Quran 4:15- sort of prolonged honor killings
     Reply #37 - February 22, 2010, 04:51 PM
    Quote from: BerberElla on February 22, 2010, 04:26 PM
    I think I've mentioned this before, and I'm not batting for the other team, but the concept of the 5 pillars is taken from the hadith, without the hadith there is no concept of the 5 pillars so a quran only follower doesn't have to follow them.

    We keep saying without the hadith you have no explanation of the 5 pillars, but really without the hadith there is no need to even explain them.


    The 5 pillars of Islam are one of the things that kids are taught in books when they learn to read, and is universally recognised as the cornerstone of Islam.  Without them you are removing a lot of the heart & soul of Islam

    But how many Quran-onlies realise that by effectively ignoring the hadith, they are instantly deleting 4 out of 5 of these pillars?  How many have you ever heard that are willing to denounce 4 these pillars of Islam, despite being hardened Quran-onlies.  

    Yet if they dont, are they to accept they are Quran-onlies when it suits.. nope, they wont do that either.
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  • Re: Honor Killings v. Quran 4:15- sort of prolonged honor killings
     Reply #38 - February 22, 2010, 05:01 PM
    They might have been taught it from childhood, but instead of becoming apostates they have simply changed/reinterpreted what islam is, to no longer include the 5 pillars.

    It's madness.   wacko
    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: Honor Killings v. Quran 4:15- sort of prolonged honor killings
     Reply #39 - February 22, 2010, 05:02 PM
    lol Quran only's what a riot
  • Re: Honor Killings v. Quran 4:15- sort of prolonged honor killings
     Reply #40 - February 22, 2010, 05:07 PM
    Quote from: BerberElla on February 22, 2010, 05:01 PM
    They might have been taught it from childhood, but instead of becoming apostates they have simply changed/reinterpreted what islam is, to no longer include the 5 pillars.

    It's madness.   wacko

    But the point is can you make them accept/are they even aware that 4 out of the 5 pillars no longer apply?
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  • Re: Honor Killings v. Quran 4:15- sort of prolonged honor killings
     Reply #41 - February 22, 2010, 05:08 PM
    I'm not sure of their view on it, would be interested in hearing about the quran only stance with the 5 pillars.


    Debunker, abu, et al, want to take a stab at explaining it to us?
    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: Honor Killings v. Quran 4:15- sort of prolonged honor killings
     Reply #42 - February 22, 2010, 05:10 PM
    Quote from: BerberElla on February 22, 2010, 04:50 PM
    And you believe that 100 lashes is the correct punishment for fornication?  You agree with this and it sits well with you?

    To leave a back looking like this:

    (Clicky for piccy!)

    Is ok with you for anyone who has sex without marriage?

    What would you use to lash the person?  any particular whip Islam recommends?

    Because certain whips cause death in less than 100 lashes.

    I mean, the quran does not give specifics does it?  it doesn;t tell you to space the lashes apart, it doesn;t limit what can be used to administer the lashing does it?


    No it does not sit well with me. Just like a it does not sit well with me a person doing cooperate corruption been sent to jail for life (USA). They both seems harsh to me.
    We all have our own ideas about the punishemnt or what punishment should be. 100 guys you ask  100 answer you will get.  I can not argure with God just like I can not argue with US govt.

    One thing you need to know under quran rulling unless someone is screwing in the middle of the road it is almost impossible to get 4 witnesses and punish someone.
  • Re: Honor Killings v. Quran 4:15- sort of prolonged honor killings
     Reply #43 - February 22, 2010, 05:12 PM
    Quote from: BerberElla on February 22, 2010, 05:08 PM
    I'm not sure of their view on it, would be interested in hearing about the quran only stance with the 5 pillars.


    Debunker, abu, et al, want to take a stab at explaining it to us?


    Debunker is not a quran-only - he is a shameless applies-only when THE self-appointed Prophet Debunker authorises it
    Secondly I wouldnt hold your breath for the others to respond..
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  • Re: Honor Killings v. Quran 4:15- sort of prolonged honor killings
     Reply #44 - February 22, 2010, 05:13 PM
    Quote from: iffo on February 22, 2010, 05:10 PM
    No it does not sit well with me. Just like a it does not sit well with me a person doing cooperate corruption been sent to jail for life (USA). They both seems harsh to me.
    We all have our own ideas about the punishemnt or what punishment should be. 100 guys you ask  100 answer you will get.  I can not argure with God just like I can not argue with US govt.

    One thing you need to know under quran rulling unless someone is screwing in the middle of the road it is almost impossible to get 4 witnesses and punish someone.


    Yeah so rape charges go out the window  Afro

    Also the US government can change.

    It seems the law of Allah written in a book 1400 years ago can not.
  • Re: Honor Killings v. Quran 4:15- sort of prolonged honor killings
     Reply #45 - February 22, 2010, 05:14 PM
    Quote from: IsLame on February 22, 2010, 05:12 PM
    Debunker is not a quran-only - he is a shameless applies-only when THE self-appointed Prophet Debunker authorises it
    Secondly I wouldnt hold your breath for the others to respond..


    If only Debunker would have been the real prophet.
  • Re: Honor Killings v. Quran 4:15- sort of prolonged honor killings
     Reply #46 - February 22, 2010, 07:21 PM
    Quote from: IsLame on February 22, 2010, 04:51 PM
    The 5 pillars of Islam are one of the things that kids are taught in books when they learn to read, and is universally recognised as the cornerstone of Islam.  Without them you are removing a lot of the heart & soul of Islam

    But how many Quran-onlies realise that by effectively ignoring the hadith, they are instantly deleting 4 out of 5 of these pillars?  How many have you ever heard that are willing to denounce 4 these pillars of Islam, despite being hardened Quran-onlies. 

    Yet if they dont, are they to accept they are Quran-onlies when it suits.. nope, they wont do that either.



    Huh?!!! Quran repeats mentioning 4 of the pillars very often: prayer, fasting, zakat and pilgrimmage... Quran-onlys though cannot explain how would they be able to perform these rituals without Hadith (especially Zakat.. it's very complicated).

    The details are in the Hadiths... but the importance of these rituals has already been repeatedly mentioned in the Quran.
    A googolplex is *precisely* as far from infinity as is the number 1.--Carl Sagan
  • Re: Honor Killings v. Quran 4:15- sort of prolonged honor killings
     Reply #47 - February 22, 2010, 07:33 PM
    Quote from: BlackDog on February 22, 2010, 05:13 PM
    Yeah so rape charges go out the window  Afro

    Also the US government can change.

    It seems the law of Allah written in a book 1400 years ago can not.


    Do you know how they prove rape cases in Saudi?
    A googolplex is *precisely* as far from infinity as is the number 1.--Carl Sagan
  • Re: Honor Killings v. Quran 4:15- sort of prolonged honor killings
     Reply #48 - February 22, 2010, 07:34 PM
    Quote from: debunker on February 22, 2010, 07:33 PM
    Do you know how they prove rape cases in Saudi?


    Dare I ask? Go ahead tell us. I shudder to know though.
  • Re: Honor Killings v. Quran 4:15- sort of prolonged honor killings
     Reply #49 - February 22, 2010, 07:34 PM
    This is where you joke and say:

    They don't.
  • Re: Honor Killings v. Quran 4:15- sort of prolonged honor killings
     Reply #50 - February 22, 2010, 07:46 PM
    it depends on the accuser... if the girl is from a "good" family, they take the accused, torture him until he admits he raped her and then cut off his head...

    if the girl is not from a "good" family, they go like: "prove it bitch!".
    A googolplex is *precisely* as far from infinity as is the number 1.--Carl Sagan
  • Re: Honor Killings v. Quran 4:15- sort of prolonged honor killings
     Reply #51 - February 22, 2010, 08:08 PM
    Jesus. How the hell does a court decide who's a good family and who's not? *cough* money? *cough* prestige?
  • Re: Honor Killings v. Quran 4:15- sort of prolonged honor killings
     Reply #52 - February 22, 2010, 08:14 PM
    I don't know how... but mainly it has to do with the family *name*...
    A googolplex is *precisely* as far from infinity as is the number 1.--Carl Sagan
  • Re: Honor Killings v. Quran 4:15- sort of prolonged honor killings
     Reply #53 - February 22, 2010, 08:16 PM
    *cough* sorry i'm allergic to bullshit
  • Re: Honor Killings v. Quran 4:15- sort of prolonged honor killings
     Reply #54 - February 22, 2010, 08:49 PM
    who's bullshiting?! If I show you a story from a Saudi papers proving that they kill the rapist, will you take it back?
    A googolplex is *precisely* as far from infinity as is the number 1.--Carl Sagan
  • Re: Honor Killings v. Quran 4:15- sort of prolonged honor killings
     Reply #55 - February 22, 2010, 08:52 PM
    lol no dude not you, but the bs about having a good name means being of a good character, you know typical arab mentality
  • Re: Honor Killings v. Quran 4:15- sort of prolonged honor killings
     Reply #56 - February 22, 2010, 08:55 PM
    Quote from: debunker on February 22, 2010, 07:46 PM
    it depends on the accuser... if the girl is from a "good" family, they take the accused, torture him until he admits he raped her and then cut off his head...

    if the girl is not from a "good" family, they go like: "prove it bitch!".



    Saudi Arabia! Fuck yeah! Doing it bronze age desert style since 600 AD
    I hear what you're saying. You're spinning my head around.
  • Re: Honor Killings v. Quran 4:15- sort of prolonged honor killings
     Reply #57 - February 22, 2010, 09:03 PM
    Quote from: BlackDog on February 22, 2010, 08:52 PM
    lol no dude not you, but the bs about having a good name means being of a good character, you know typical arab mentality


    Anyway, it's very unfair to torture the accused and then killing him afterwards... I really don't know how can they prove rape in the West? It's her word against his.

    EDIT:

    A man was killed for raping women.
    http://www.alriyadh.com/Contents/30-11-2004/Mainpage/LOCAL1_25528.php

    Another killed for raping boys.
    http://www.alriyadh.com/2009/11/16/article474847.print

    Rape is punishable by death in Orthodox Islam.
    A googolplex is *precisely* as far from infinity as is the number 1.--Carl Sagan
  • Re: Honor Killings v. Quran 4:15- sort of prolonged honor killings
     Reply #58 - February 22, 2010, 09:06 PM
    Rape kit, forensics, testimony, witnesses ( though rare), circumstances.  Sometimes it does come down to a he says vs. she says, but it gets pretty much ingrained that "No means no" and if she says no, then the man is responsible for anything after that.  Mostly the woman gets the benefit of the doubt, sometimes it sucks for the man.
    So once again I'm left with the classic Irish man's dilemma, do I eat the potato or do I let it ferment so I can drink it later?
    My political philosophy below
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwGat4i8pJI&feature=g-vrec
    Just kidding, here are some true heros
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBTgvK6LQqA
  • Re: Honor Killings v. Quran 4:15- sort of prolonged honor killings
     Reply #59 - February 23, 2010, 12:05 AM
    Quote from: Johnmuslim on February 22, 2010, 08:55 PM

    Saudi Arabia! Fuck yeah! Doing it bronze age desert style since 600 AD

     Cheesy Thats gotta be used for somebody's signature for posterity  Afro
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