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 Topic: Israel

 (Read 21779 times)
  • 12 3 4 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Israel
     OP - February 18, 2010, 08:22 PM

    I would just like to say I have nothing against Israel - in a similar way as I have nothing against Malawi or Columbia or Estonia. In fact I'd rather live in Israel than many Arab countries. However that doesn't mean I can't criticise the actions of it's government.

    Nor am I against Jews - in fact my experience of Jews I have known has been very good and I find them very intelligent, good and decent people.

    HOWEVER... that doesn't mean I have to suck Israel's cock - or avoid criticising someone just because he is a Jew.

    I hate the way that some Israelis/Jews regard ANY criticism as 'anti-semitism' - and I hate the way some Christian Fundies and Neocons will defend Israel no matter what it does.
  • Re: Israel
     Reply #1 - February 18, 2010, 08:28 PM

    I hate the way that some Israelis/Jews regard ANY criticism as 'anti-semitism'


    Its like how some Muslims say any criticism of Islam or Islamism the political doctrine or Ummah identity politics is 'Islamophobia'  Roll Eyes


    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Israel
     Reply #2 - February 18, 2010, 08:28 PM

    Its like how some Muslims say any criticism of Islam is 'Islamophobia'  Roll Eyes




    It's a very similar smear tactic. Of course nowadays, its a lot harder for people to criticise Islam than it is to criticise Israel. In Europe at least.

    Iblis has mad debaterin' skillz. Best not step up unless you're prepared to recieve da pain.

  • Re: Israel
     Reply #3 - February 18, 2010, 08:30 PM

    Its like how some Muslims say any criticism of Islam or Islamism the political doctrine or Ummah identity politics is 'Islamophobia'  Roll Eyes


    Indeed!
  • Re: Israel
     Reply #4 - February 18, 2010, 08:31 PM

    I would just like to say I have nothing against Israel - in a similar way as I have nothing against Malawi or Columbia or Estonia. In fact I'd rather live in Israel than many Arab countries. However that doesn't mean I can't criticise the actions of it's government.

    Nor am I against Jews - in fact my experience of Jews I have known has been very good and I find them very intelligent, good and decent people.

    HOWEVER... that doesn't mean I have to suck Israel's cock - or avoid criticising someone just because he is a Jew.

    I hate the way that some Israelis/Jews regard ANY criticism as 'anti-semitism' - and I hate the way some Christian Fundies and Neocons will defend Israel no matter what it does.


    I totally agree with you.

    I'd say I've become a lot more sympathetic towards Israel since my apostasy. But the idea that we need to become "pro" Israel because we're no longer Islamic is ridiculous. There are lots of things to criticise Israel for from a purely secular perspective.

    In a weird way, Israel could be one of the greatest friends for helping advance Muslim countries. Its essentially a European transplant into the Muslim world. They can teach us a lot.


    Iblis has mad debaterin' skillz. Best not step up unless you're prepared to recieve da pain.

  • Re: Israel
     Reply #5 - February 18, 2010, 08:34 PM

    I would just like to say I have nothing against Israel - in a similar way as I have nothing against Malawi or Columbia or Estonia. In fact I'd rather live in Israel than many Arab countries. However that doesn't mean I can't criticise the actions of it's government.

    Nor am I against Jews - in fact my experience of the Jews I have known has been very good and I find them very intelligent, good and decent people.

    HOWEVER... that doesn't mean I have to suck Israel's cock - or avoid criticising someone just because he is a Jew.

    I hate the way that some Israelis/Jews regard ANY criticism as 'anti-semitism' - and I hate the way some Christian Fundies and Neocons will defend Israel no matter what it does.


    Agree with most of what you say, but double standards & hypocrisy exist on both sides.

    There are plenty of Arab\Muslims too who're foaming at the mouth with anti Semitic remarks & oppose the very existence of Israel, wanting it to be wiped out as well as supporting violence against innocent Jews.

    I know Western "liberals" too who oppose the very right of Israel to exist as a Jewish state, while expressing no objections to all the Muslim states in the world & compare the Israelis to the Nazis, which I think is quite extreme.

    There are plenty of explicitly Muslim states around the world, with policies just as discriminatory or even more discriminatory towards its non Muslim citizens, which do not face any of the grave threats to their existence that Israel does.

    Also, Israel is quite tiny compared to many of its neighbours. I don't support any encroachments of Israel upon others territories. However Israel does have a right to exist and exist as a Jewish state.Also, while killing innocents or driving people out of their homes is always objectionable, Israel also has a right to protect its citizens lives & limbs, & if there're strong threats, they need to take strong measuers as well.

    World renowned historian Will Durant"...the Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex order and freedom can at any moment be overthrown..."
  • Re: Israel
     Reply #6 - February 18, 2010, 08:36 PM

    I totally agree with you.

    I'd say I've become a lot more sympathetic towards Israel since my apostasy. But the idea that we need to become "pro" Israel because we're no longer Islamic is ridiculous. There are lots of things to criticise Israel for from a purely secular perspective.

    In a weird way, Israel could be one of the greatest friends for helping advance Muslim countries. Its essentially a European transplant into the Muslim world. They can teach us a lot.




    Funnily enough when I was a Muslim I used to say we need to be more like Jews and learn a little wisdom from them about how to be faithful to ones traditions yet still integrate.

    Now I think of the many secular Jews who I regard as very similar to myself - people who have come through an old and silly religion and have risen above it to see the true plight of humanity.
  • Re: Israel
     Reply #7 - February 18, 2010, 08:38 PM

    I get really pissed off and angry at the obsessional Jew hatred and conspiracy theorising amongst many Muslims - there definitely is a problem of anti-semitism at some level that is actually debilitating to the Muslim mindset. But you know, those Orthodox settlers in Israel are pretty fucked up themselves, no harm in stating the obvious there.

    If only the Israelis were wise enough to understand that retreating from the settlements would bring them peace and goodwill in the world.

    They are being held hostage to religious identity politics, its a damn shame, because Israel has some great achievments in stuff like science and academia and could be a shining light in the future.

    Crazy bearded fanatics everywhere  causing problems Roll Eyes


    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Israel
     Reply #8 - February 18, 2010, 08:42 PM

    @Hassan

    I know that lots of Zionists use "anti-semitism" as a tool to silence opponents of Israeli policies. No denying this.

    But as Billy mentions, you do acknowledge that there is a really high level of raw and unadulterated antisemitism coursing through the Muslim community? A sort of Jew hatred that goes well beyond any problem with Israel and is often deeply rooted in a mixture of racial hate and religious bigotry.

    I've met too many Muslims that have just pure hatred for Jews for being Jews. Which is no surprise since the Quran and the life of Mo is filled with antisemitic episodes. Long before Israel was established.

    Iblis has mad debaterin' skillz. Best not step up unless you're prepared to recieve da pain.

  • Re: Israel
     Reply #9 - February 18, 2010, 08:46 PM

    But as Billy mentions, you do acknowledge that there is a really high level of raw and unadulterated antisemitism coursing through the Muslim community? A sort of Jew hatred that goes well beyond any problem with Israel and is often deeply rooted in a mixture of racial hate and religious bigotry.


    Oh without doubt!

    I wrote about this a few times - maybe I'll dig it out.
  • Re: Israel
     Reply #10 - February 18, 2010, 08:50 PM

    Though it does annoy me that one has to keep showing ones "non-Anti-Semetic" credentials whenever one wants to criticise Israel.
  • Re: Israel
     Reply #11 - February 18, 2010, 08:54 PM

    Interesting discussion on Israel., Suppose you guys had all the power in your hands to solve the problem between Israel and Palestinians. In other words BOTH SIDES WILL LISTEN TO YOU.. whatever you say..

    I wonder what would you suggest?


    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: Israel
     Reply #12 - February 18, 2010, 08:55 PM

    Quote
    Though it does annoy me that one has to keep showing ones "non-Anti-Semetic" credentials whenever one wants to criticise Israel.


    You're the last person on earth who could even be considered in that way. It just shows at what a hysterical pitch the whole debate is taking place. Very little room for the people in the middle.




    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Israel
     Reply #13 - February 18, 2010, 08:55 PM

    At least this week, they came out with a credible Mossad conspiracy we can all jump on board with for a change.

    My style is impetuous, my defense is impregnable and I'm just ferocious. I want your heart. I want to eat your children. Praise be to Allah." -- Mike Tyson
  • Re: Israel
     Reply #14 - February 18, 2010, 08:56 PM

    Its because of the febrile pitch of the debate that I tend to stay away from discussions about the whole issue, to be honest.


    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Israel
     Reply #15 - February 18, 2010, 08:58 PM

    Wouldn't you say that it's eerily similar to how even we deal with some critics of Islam too? We do often check for proper "non-bigot" credentials. Two people can say the exact same thing about Muslims or Islam yet we'll consider one a bigot and another not. Is that legit? Yeah I personally think it is. These topics (Israel and Islam) are often very ethnically and racially charged and people are often wary of the wrong type of people jumping on the bandwagon. Hence we often see sort of filtering process in both the Israel and Islam issues.

    Honestly, I think it's sometimes necessary and sometimes taken too far.

    Iblis has mad debaterin' skillz. Best not step up unless you're prepared to recieve da pain.

  • Re: Israel
     Reply #16 - February 18, 2010, 08:59 PM

    At least this week, they came out with a credible Mossad conspiracy we can all jump on board with for a change.



    Hahha, that UAE thing? That assassination was kinda cool actually.  cool2

    Fuck Hamas. Srsly.

    Iblis has mad debaterin' skillz. Best not step up unless you're prepared to recieve da pain.

  • Re: Israel
     Reply #17 - February 18, 2010, 09:00 PM

    Its because of the febrile pitch of the debate that I tend to stay away from discussions about the whole issue, to be honest.


    Though it does annoy me that one has to keep showing ones "non-Anti-Semetic" credentials whenever one wants to criticise Israel.

    IRL or internet or both?
  • Re: Israel
     Reply #18 - February 18, 2010, 09:10 PM

    Interesting discussion on Israel., Suppose you guys had all the power in your hands to solve the problem between Israel and Palestinians. In other words BOTH SIDES WILL LISTEN TO YOU.. whatever you say..

    I wonder what would you suggest?


    I have said before - a two state solution is the best option in my opinion. Though it will work better if both the Israelis and Palestinians leave their stupid religions behind them.
  • Re: Israel
     Reply #19 - February 18, 2010, 09:12 PM

    Fuck Hamas. Srsly


    Agreed - fuck Hamas - but fuck Mossad too!
  • Re: Israel
     Reply #20 - February 18, 2010, 09:12 PM

    IRL or internet or both?


    Both.
  • Re: Israel
     Reply #21 - February 18, 2010, 09:15 PM

    I believe in one purely secular state that recognizes no ethnic or religious rights and treats the Dome, Al Aqsa and all those other shitty places as tourist locations. Israel, West Bank, Gaza all in one state everybody with equal citizenship and legal rights. The new country can be called RIBSistan.

    ROFL

    Iblis has mad debaterin' skillz. Best not step up unless you're prepared to recieve da pain.

  • Re: Israel
     Reply #22 - February 18, 2010, 09:16 PM

    Interesting discussion on Israel., Suppose you guys had all the power in your hands to solve the problem between Israel and Palestinians. In other words BOTH SIDES WILL LISTEN TO YOU.. whatever you say..

    I wonder what would you suggest?




    I've noticed how you pop up when Israel/Jews are mentioned and have long reckoned you are from Israel/of Jewish origin - but you are clearly not a believing Jew but you are Atheist or Agnostic.

    Am I right - tell me truthfully?

    I have no problem with that - seriously - I like Jews - at least all the ones I have known.

  • Re: Israel
     Reply #23 - February 18, 2010, 09:22 PM

    btw Yeezevee I feel a bit bad about my post to you about not answering your posts - I was a bit rude. Sometimes I do find the things you say a bit confusing though.
  • Re: Israel
     Reply #24 - February 18, 2010, 09:26 PM

    @ Hassan

    Quote
    btw Yeezevee I feel a bit bad about my post to you about not answering your posts - I was a bit rude. Sometimes I do find the things you say a bit confusing though.


    Oh please don't feel bad... no one can ever be rude enough to yezvee.

    btw, yezvee speaks Urdu, so I'm guessing he's from the Indian subcontinent.

    A googolplex is *precisely* as far from infinity as is the number 1.--Carl Sagan
  • Re: Israel
     Reply #25 - February 18, 2010, 09:27 PM

    YeeZeeVee is desi?!?

    Hey whats up my nigga!!  Cool

    Iblis has mad debaterin' skillz. Best not step up unless you're prepared to recieve da pain.

  • Re: Israel
     Reply #26 - February 18, 2010, 09:30 PM

    @ Hassan

    Oh please don't feel bad... no one can ever be rude enough to yezvee.

    btw, yezvee speaks Urdu, so I'm guessing he's from the Indian subcontinent.


    Urdu?

    Really?

    I'm surprised!

    Maybe I got an image of him from something he said and it stuck in my mind.

    But to be fair to him, I've not seen him saying any of the excessive things I've seen on FFI - so I don't have a personal problem with him.

    It's simply that I find it difficult to understand him and he seems to misunderstand what I consider obvious - at times - and so I don't see much point in discussing anything with him.
  • Re: Israel
     Reply #27 - February 18, 2010, 09:31 PM

    He sure speaks Urdu! And he sometimes asks FFIers to comment on Urdu videos even though very few FFIers speak Urdu...

    A googolplex is *precisely* as far from infinity as is the number 1.--Carl Sagan
  • Re: Israel
     Reply #28 - February 18, 2010, 09:32 PM

    Wow! That's an eye-opener for me.

    He's one of the loooooooooong time members of FFI you know.

    I remember him from back in the day.
  • Re: Israel
     Reply #29 - February 18, 2010, 09:35 PM

    Urdu?

    Really?

    I'm surprised!

    Maybe I got an image of him from something he said and it stuck in my mind.

    But to be fair to him, I've not seen him saying any of the excessive things I've seen on FFI - so I don't have a personal problem with him.

    It's simply that I find it difficult to understand him and he seems to misunderstand what I consider obvious - at times - and so I don't see much point in discussing anything with him.


    Oh please don't blame yourself at all.. he rambles all over FFI too... and he has to be in every thread giving his very valuable opinion on anything and everything...

    new members at FFI are usually confused by his posts and think the problem is with their understanding, they don't know who yezvee is...

    A googolplex is *precisely* as far from infinity as is the number 1.--Carl Sagan
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