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Theme Changer

 Topic: Islam and Universal Brotherhood and other things

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  • Re: Islam and Universal Brotherhood and other things
     Reply #30 - February 19, 2010, 04:55 PM
    Quote from: bronze on February 19, 2010, 03:34 PM
    I personally think it's just terrific that Mohd. married women who were not virgins, which I did not think was a particularly controversial thing to say.   I forgot to mention that I think it's terrific that he married a woman much older than he is (who is in Shia tradition his favorite wife), who knows what hisssing that would have incited.


    She did actually employ him and was his boss.  She was also quite rich and sources indicate that she was quite an influential and headstrong figure as well.  Hardly anything spectacular.  If anything it shows that SHE chose him and that women contrary to what Islamic sources say actually had more rights and privileged positions in Arabic society during pre Islamic times  
    "Modern man's great illusion has been to convince himself that of all that has gone before he represents the zenith of human accomplishment, but can't summon the mental powers to read anything more demanding than emoticons. Fascinating. "

    One very horny Turk I met on the net.
  • Re: Islam and Universal Brotherhood and other things
     Reply #31 - February 19, 2010, 04:56 PM
    Quote from: billy on February 19, 2010, 04:52 PM
    BlackDog STFU with your sarcasm, didn't you know that Islam teaches Universal Brotherhood.




    I love you, you are my brother. If a man strikes you he strikes me. If you wish to stand I stand with thee. You may not believe in my God, but my God believes in you. And therefore I believe in you.
  • Re: Islam and Universal Brotherhood and other things
     Reply #32 - February 19, 2010, 04:58 PM
    Quote from: bronze on February 19, 2010, 04:53 PM
    >>There is absolutely nothing extraordinary about Muhammad marrying non virgins.   It was a very common thing for men in Muhammad's society to marry widows, many of whom were already deflowered.  Their previous husbands were killed in battle and the women were left vulnerable. In a society that lives in a harsh, barren, desert landscape nothing goes to waste, especially a beautiful woman. <<

    If they had been living in the harsh desert landscape of Rajasthan several centuries later, those women would have been put on the barbeque.

    I wasn't suggesting Mohd. did something extraordinary for his own society, let me hasten to add, just something I a) liked and b) "was more progressive than some communities today."  I really did not expect that saying women's remarraige is a social good would draw this much discussion, honestly.  I think I will quit here.


    My Lord forgives. So I forgive. My Lord teaches, so I teach. My Lord is patient, so I am patient. You are free to believe as you wish, Our Lord did not bring us into this world with shackles and chains. So how can he shackle and chain our thoughts and hearts. No, you are as free to believe as I am. And no grief shall afflict you, none in this world nor in the hereafter.
  • Re: Islam and Universal Brotherhood and other things
     Reply #33 - February 19, 2010, 05:03 PM
    Quote from: bronze on February 19, 2010, 04:53 PM

    I think I will quit here.


    Wait! You haven't explained how Islam teaches UNIVERSAL BROTHERHOOD yet!
    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Islam and Universal Brotherhood and other things
     Reply #34 - February 19, 2010, 05:03 PM
    Quote from: bronze on February 19, 2010, 04:53 PM
    If they had been living in the harsh desert landscape of Rajasthan several centuries later, those women would have been put on the barbeque.


    Because in the Subcontinent, resources were not so scarce as in the Arabian peninsula, that is why that practice took place.  Even the Chinese Emperors had their concubines buried alive with them when they died.  It was because of the same reason that such a practice could take place.

    Quote from: bronze on February 19, 2010, 04:53 PM
    I wasn't suggesting Mohd. did something extraordinary for his own society, let me hasten to add, just something I a) liked and b) "was more progressive than some communities today."  I really did not expect that saying women's remarraige is a social good would draw this much discussion, honestly.  I think I will quit here.


    Which communities would those be?  Mostly patriarchal societies were sex is a taboo and men are quite insecure.  The vast majority of Islamic societies fit that description....surprise, surprise.  They regressed because they followed outdated laws that are not compatible with today's world or the society and culture they live in.  

    There is not much attention drawn to the fact that he married non virgins simply because it is not important and it was something quite normal in his day and society.  No one is discussing anything, we are just highlighting the fact for you.  
    "Modern man's great illusion has been to convince himself that of all that has gone before he represents the zenith of human accomplishment, but can't summon the mental powers to read anything more demanding than emoticons. Fascinating. "

    One very horny Turk I met on the net.
  • Re: Islam and Universal Brotherhood and other things
     Reply #35 - February 19, 2010, 05:07 PM

    >>>She did actually employ him and was his boss.  She was also quite rich and sources indicate that she was quite an influential and headstrong figure as well.  Hardly anything spectacular.  If anything it shows that SHE chose him and that women contrary to what Islamic sources say actually had more rights and privileged positions in Arabic society during pre Islamic times  <<<

    Yes, she invited him to marraige, which only makes the story more charming -- not as some sort of verdict on the nature of Islam but because it is so different from the norms that we are familiar with even today.  It's a story that's rare even in Hollywood, while romances with men cavorting with costars half their age is routine.  Make a How Khadija Got Her Groove Back in other countries and you'd shock people with the mere idea.
  • Re: Islam and Universal Brotherhood and other things
     Reply #36 - February 19, 2010, 05:09 PM
    Quote
    Yes, she invited him to marraige, which only makes the story more charming -- not as some sort of verdict on the nature of Islam but because it is so different from the norms that we are familiar with even today.  It's a story that's rare even in Hollywood, while romances with men cavorting with costars half their age is routine.  Make a How Khadija Got Her Groove Back in other countries and you'd shock people with the mere idea.


     Grin

    Mo the child bride prophet, what a guy, so progressive and puts Hollywood to shame  Grin
    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Islam and Universal Brotherhood and other things
     Reply #37 - February 19, 2010, 05:10 PM
    Quote from: bronze on February 19, 2010, 05:07 PM
    >>>She did actually employ him and was his boss.  She was also quite rich and sources indicate that she was quite an influential and headstrong figure as well.  Hardly anything spectacular.  If anything it shows that SHE chose him and that women contrary to what Islamic sources say actually had more rights and privileged positions in Arabic society during pre Islamic times  <<<

    Yes, she invited him to marraige, which only makes the story more charming -- not as some sort of verdict on the nature of Islam but because it is so different from the norms that we are familiar with even today.  It's a story that's rare even in Hollywood, while romances with men cavorting with costars half their age is routine.  Make a How Khadija Got Her Groove Back in other countries and you'd shock people with the mere idea.


  • Re: Islam and Universal Brotherhood and other things
     Reply #38 - February 19, 2010, 05:11 PM
    Quote from: billy on February 19, 2010, 05:09 PM
    Grin

    Mo the child bride prophet, what a guy, so progressive and puts Hollywood to shame  Grin





    Polanski pointing "Look there is one even more perverted than I"
  • Re: Islam and Universal Brotherhood and other things
     Reply #39 - February 19, 2010, 05:13 PM
    Quote from: billy on February 19, 2010, 05:03 PM
    Wait! You haven't explained how Islam teaches UNIVERSAL BROTHERHOOD yet!



    Because we are all born muslims. Therefore we are all brothers and sisters. Simply easy logic, brother, lol. I'm kidding you fucking kafir you are not like me. You don't even know how to wash your ass properly looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooool
  • Re: Islam and Universal Brotherhood and other things
     Reply #40 - February 19, 2010, 05:14 PM
    Quote from: bronze on February 19, 2010, 05:07 PM
    >>>She did actually employ him and was his boss.  She was also quite rich and sources indicate that she was quite an influential and headstrong figure as well.  Hardly anything spectacular.  If anything it shows that SHE chose him and that women contrary to what Islamic sources say actually had more rights and privileged positions in Arabic society during pre Islamic times  <<<

    Yes, she invited him to marraige, which only makes the story more charming -- not as some sort of verdict on the nature of Islam but because it is so different from the norms that we are familiar with even today.  It's a story that's rare even in Hollywood, while romances with men cavorting with costars half their age is routine.  Make a How Khadija Got Her Groove Back in other countries and you'd shock people with the mere idea.


    lol bro fuck these kafirs. islam is nr. 1 son
  • Re: Islam and Universal Brotherhood and other things
     Reply #41 - February 19, 2010, 05:17 PM
    I think that this thread (well, the last few post at the very least) deserves an official approval!

  • Re: Islam and Universal Brotherhood and other things
     Reply #42 - February 19, 2010, 05:17 PM
    Quote from: BlackDog on February 19, 2010, 05:13 PM
    Because we are all born muslims. Therefore we are all brothers and sisters. Simply easy logic, brother, lol. I'm kidding you fucking kafir you are not like me. You don't even know how to wash your ass properly looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooool


    Ah yes of course, I forgot that.

    All are born Muslims, and so those that repudiate it knowing full well what Mo's creed offers, are responsible for their own lack of equality. Mashallah Islam is so compassionate  Afro
    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Islam and Universal Brotherhood and other things
     Reply #43 - February 19, 2010, 05:28 PM
    Quote from: BlackDog on February 19, 2010, 04:48 PM
    It's Muhammad (saw) to you. Please refrain from abbreviating the Seal Of Prophets' name. The Most Sweet One.


    You make me laugh BD - thank you  Cheesy
  • Re: Islam and Universal Brotherhood and other things
     Reply #44 - February 19, 2010, 05:43 PM
    Quote from: bronze on February 19, 2010, 05:07 PM

    Yes, she invited him to marraige, which only makes the story more charming -- not as some sort of verdict on the nature of Islam but because it is so different from the norms that we are familiar with even today.  It's a story that's rare even in Hollywood, while romances with men cavorting with costars half their age is routine.  Make a How Khadija Got Her Groove Back in other countries and you'd shock people with the mere idea.


    The norms of many societies today were shaped by Muhammad's religion.  You do not hear of such a scenario taking place in Islamic countries.  That's hardly a good argument that you are giving.  Khadeeja and her society were not Islamic, remember that.  The fact that she 'invited' him shows that she was in a dominant postion.
    "Modern man's great illusion has been to convince himself that of all that has gone before he represents the zenith of human accomplishment, but can't summon the mental powers to read anything more demanding than emoticons. Fascinating. "

    One very horny Turk I met on the net.
  • Re: Islam and Universal Brotherhood and other things
     Reply #45 - February 19, 2010, 05:44 PM
    Quote from: BlackDog on February 19, 2010, 05:11 PM
    (Clicky for piccy!)

    Polanski pointing "Look there is one even more perverted than I"


     Cheesy

    You fucker... You're getting JOTM from me.
    "Modern man's great illusion has been to convince himself that of all that has gone before he represents the zenith of human accomplishment, but can't summon the mental powers to read anything more demanding than emoticons. Fascinating. "

    One very horny Turk I met on the net.
  • Re: Islam and Universal Brotherhood and other things
     Reply #46 - February 19, 2010, 05:45 PM
    Quote from: ras111 on February 19, 2010, 05:44 PM
    Cheesy

    You fucker... You're getting JOTM from me.


    lol - me too!
  • Re: Islam and Universal Brotherhood and other things
     Reply #47 - February 19, 2010, 05:59 PM
    Quote from: billy on February 19, 2010, 05:17 PM
    Ah yes of course, I forgot that.

    All are born Muslims, and so those that repudiate it knowing full well what Mo's creed offers, are responsible for their own lack of equality. Mashallah Islam is so compassionate  Afro


    You're imagining rather than reading.  I replied in the original thread with some quotes from Kancha Ilaiah, it had nothing to do with creed but with the specifics of lived experience in particular social contexts.  In other words, nuance.   In this very world, a Muslim-born woman (Khushboo) writes about the unremarkableness of non-virgin women marrying and non-Muslims threaten her for her views.  Why can't you address that for its particulars rather than translating every statement I make into some VERDICT ON ISLAM, like I need to be identifed as PRO or AGAINST.  It's not a dismissal of injustice to say that sometimes things work differently, sometimes kuffar have remarkably positive views of their interactions with believing Muslims (Kancha Ilaiah and many Dalits), sometimes Muslim practices are more progressive than the ones in their surrounding community (remarraige), sometimes openly atheist Muslims in Muslim ghettoes experience tolerance (look up Mahmood Farooqui's essay).  

  • Re: Islam and Universal Brotherhood and other things
     Reply #48 - February 19, 2010, 06:05 PM
    Quote from: ras111 on February 19, 2010, 05:43 PM
    The norms of many societies today were shaped by Muhammad's religion.  You do not hear of such a scenario taking place in Islamic countries.  That's hardly a good argument that you are giving.  Khadeeja and her society were not Islamic, remember that.  The fact that she 'invited' him shows that she was in a dominant postion.


    "it's charming" is not an argument about anything, good or otherwise, it's a statement of taste.  In case that was not clear, I also said "not as some sort of verdict on the nature of Islam but because it is so different" from the routine that we are inundated with.

    After I posted, I realized that I had forgotten Saudagar, in which an older woman does marry a younger man and marry more than once.  It's also set among Muslims though.
  • Re: Islam and Universal Brotherhood and other things
     Reply #49 - February 19, 2010, 06:10 PM
    Quote from: bronze on February 19, 2010, 05:59 PM
    You're imagining rather than reading.  I replied in the original thread with some quotes from Kancha Ilaiah, it had nothing to do with creed but with the specifics of lived experience in particular social contexts.  In other words, nuance.   In this very world, a Muslim-born woman (Khushboo) writes about the unremarkableness of non-virgin women marrying and non-Muslims threaten her for her views.  Why can't you address that for its particulars rather than translating every statement I make into some VERDICT ON ISLAM, like I need to be identifed as PRO or AGAINST.  It's not a dismissal of injustice to say that sometimes things work differently, sometimes kuffar have remarkably positive views of their interactions with believing Muslims (Kancha Ilaiah and many Dalits), sometimes Muslim practices are more progressive than the ones in their surrounding community (remarraige), sometimes openly atheist Muslims in Muslim ghettoes experience tolerance (look up Mahmood Farooqui's essay).  




    Sweet virgin girl. Hallmark of virtue.


    Virgin goes whore. Christians say foul play. Maybe because they want to de-flower her? If (s)ex-virgin wore hijab this would not happen:



    Too much stress. Virgin girl loses hair:



    Now virgin girl holy mother



    And role model:

  • Re: Islam and Universal Brotherhood and other things
     Reply #50 - February 19, 2010, 06:14 PM
    Quote from: bronze on February 19, 2010, 06:05 PM
    "it's charming" is not an argument about anything, good or otherwise, it's a statement of taste.  In case that was not clear, I also said "not as some sort of verdict on the nature of Islam but because it is so different" from the routine that we are inundated with.

    After I posted, I realized that I had forgotten Saudagar, in which an older woman does marry a younger man and marry more than once.  It's also set among Muslims though.


    1400 years people will celebrate this man virtuousness to marry a women much older than him in a climate where men marry younger women all the time (douche-bags). Because as we all know an older women is a heavy burden. The Paragon of all that is good and holy:



  • Re: Islam and Universal Brotherhood and other things
     Reply #51 - February 19, 2010, 06:15 PM
    Is this your kope impression, BD?
    fuck you
  • Re: Islam and Universal Brotherhood and other things
     Reply #52 - February 19, 2010, 06:18 PM
    Quote from: Q-Man on February 19, 2010, 06:15 PM
    Is this your kope impression, BD?


    Nobody can imitate Kope. It's my humble homage. But I am glad I did it, I was in doubt of the man's genius. And now all I can do is pray and hope He will forgive me for being in doubt  Cry
  • Re: Islam and Universal Brotherhood and other things
     Reply #53 - February 19, 2010, 06:22 PM
    Quote from: BlackDog on February 19, 2010, 06:18 PM
    Nobody can imitate Kope. It's my humble homage. But I am glad I did it, I was in doubt of the man's genius. And now all I can do is pray and hope He will forgive me for being in doubt  Cry


    Kope is all-Forgiving and All-Merciful but there are some things he has arbitrarily decided to NEVER forgive - associating partners with him is one and you just pissed off the wrong God, BD.

    See you on the other side of a painful eternity mate  Afro
  • Re: Islam and Universal Brotherhood and other things
     Reply #54 - February 19, 2010, 06:23 PM
    Quote from: Hassan on February 19, 2010, 06:22 PM
    Kope is all-Forgiving and All-Merciful but there are some things he has arbitrarily decided to NEVER forgive - associating partners with him is one and you just pissed off the wrong God, BD.

    See you on the other side of a painful eternity mate  Afro


     Cheesy Cheesy
  • Re: Islam and Universal Brotherhood and other things
     Reply #55 - February 19, 2010, 07:32 PM
    Quote from: bronze on February 19, 2010, 05:59 PM
    You're imagining rather than reading.  I replied in the original thread with some quotes from Kancha Ilaiah, it had nothing to do with creed but with the specifics of lived experience in particular social contexts.  In other words, nuance.   In this very world, a Muslim-born woman (Khushboo) writes about the unremarkableness of non-virgin women marrying and non-Muslims threaten her for her views.  Why can't you address that for its particulars rather than translating every statement I make into some VERDICT ON ISLAM, like I need to be identifed as PRO or AGAINST.  It's not a dismissal of injustice to say that sometimes things work differently, sometimes kuffar have remarkably positive views of their interactions with believing Muslims (Kancha Ilaiah and many Dalits), sometimes Muslim practices are more progressive than the ones in their surrounding community (remarraige), sometimes openly atheist Muslims in Muslim ghettoes experience tolerance (look up Mahmood Farooqui's essay).  


    You keep referring to kuffars disparagingly in your defence of Mo and Islam as comparisons - why is that?

    Oh yeah, and you didn't explain how Islam promotes Universal Brotherhood yet, I wonder why.



    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Islam and Universal Brotherhood and other things
     Reply #56 - February 19, 2010, 07:34 PM

    Kope is a Prophet all of his own - and bronze is his sidekick  Afro
    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Islam and Universal Brotherhood and other things
     Reply #57 - February 19, 2010, 07:37 PM
    Hey Bronze all jokes aside don't user the word kuffars any more. Do you understand? It's extremely disrespectful, I hated the word as a muslim and I hate it even more now.

    How can there even be a universal brotherhood when a word such as kafir exists?

  • Re: Islam and Universal Brotherhood and other things
     Reply #58 - February 19, 2010, 07:42 PM
    Quote
    Hey Bronze all jokes aside don't user the word kuffars any more. Do you understand? It's extremely disrespectful, I hated the word as a muslim and I hate it even more now.

    How can there even be a universal brotherhood when a word such as kafir exists?

     

    If he thinks of the world as full of Muslims and Kuffar him not using it will make no difference. This is the inanity of Islam. People can honestly believe it teaches Universal Brotherhood whilst still calling people Kuffar. Its crazy, isn't it? They really are sincere Bronze has illustrated some very valuable things for us here.

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Islam and Universal Brotherhood and other things
     Reply #59 - February 19, 2010, 07:51 PM
    It's like being a KKK member and calling out for a Universal Brotherhood while shouting hang niggers and burning crosses on people front-lawns. Then getting upset when people call you on the contradictions.

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