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 Topic: Are you responsible for the apostacy of anyone else?

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  • Are you responsible for the apostacy of anyone else?
     OP - March 10, 2010, 10:04 PM
    How many apostasies are you responsible for? Intentionally or not, have you ever convinced anyone out of Islam? Or have you even made some people less religious and more apathetic towards dogmatically following Islam?

    I can take credit for three apostasies. All three of these people (my younger brother and two friends) told me that if it hadn't been for me, they wouldn't have seriously questioned Islam. 
    "Poor human nature, what horrible crimes have been committed in thy name!"
    - Emma Goldman
  • Re: Are you responsible for the apostacy of anyone else?
     Reply #1 - March 10, 2010, 10:16 PM
    I wish I was! But then again, I really don't care what people think or do. All I want is for my parents and muslim friends to stop trying to save me...it's annoying. I don't mind debating though.
    I know someday you'll have a beautiful life, I know you'll be a star
    In somebody else's sky, but why, why, why
    Can't it be, can't it be mine

    https://twitter.com/AlharbiMoe
  • Re: Are you responsible for the apostacy of anyone else?
     Reply #2 - March 10, 2010, 10:18 PM
    I wish my younger siblings would all leave Islam. As for everybody else, I don't care Tongue
    I know someday you'll have a beautiful life, I know you'll be a star
    In somebody else's sky, but why, why, why
    Can't it be, can't it be mine

    https://twitter.com/AlharbiMoe
  • Re: Are you responsible for the apostacy of anyone else?
     Reply #3 - March 10, 2010, 10:20 PM
    I have to say, though, that I never actively set out to change anyone. I just shared my very strong opinions with a few people who actually listened!
    "Poor human nature, what horrible crimes have been committed in thy name!"
    - Emma Goldman
  • Re: Are you responsible for the apostacy of anyone else?
     Reply #4 - March 10, 2010, 11:10 PM
    I accidentally deconverted one Muslim.
    And a few Christians, but I guess that's beyond the scope of this thread.
    Do not look directly at the operational end of the device.
  • Re: Are you responsible for the apostacy of anyone else?
     Reply #5 - March 10, 2010, 11:16 PM
    As far as I know, I have not caused anyone to leave Islam. Though I do not put much (if any) energy towards trying.
    The only thing we have to fear is fear itself
    - 32nd United States President Franklin D. Roosevelt
  • Re: Are you responsible for the apostacy of anyone else?
     Reply #6 - March 10, 2010, 11:20 PM
    I guess I'm partially responsible for my younger sister's path to kuffarhood. I wouldn't call her an apostate proper. She's more just an aggressive muslim girl who likes to party and binge drink and will seize upon any reason to justify her lifestyle. My increasingly vocal anti-religiosity propelled her to sort of take up that mantle and regurgitate stuff I say without putting much thought into it. I don't feel particularly proud about it because, even for a kafir, she's pretty crazy and needs to calm down and get some discipline and stop smoking and drinking and whoring herself out to random white guys (I think she's on her 5th bf?) and it also gives my parents a lot of grief and hardship - that I hate the worst.

    I also contributed significantly in the apostasy of a convert. He was originally a Ismaili from a very well off and liberal family but he got snared by the dawahgandists on campus and embraced a hardcore salafi islam. Long story short, me and him apostated from Islam around the same time and I would regularly communicate my doubts with him during the death throes of my iman. I contacted him recently and I've confirmed that I was indeed a significant reason for him leaving the faith eventually.

    I'm currently working on my two 8 and 10 year old nieces (my older sis' kids). Its more covert and involves filling their heads with skeptical thinking, buying them copious amounts of science docs and books and just generally giving my sister grief about any potentional "hijab"-ing of them by my douchefucktard brother in law. I'm pretty sure the 10 year old one is already being rather a pain in the ass and asking too many questions about salat to her dad. The 8 year old one just goes "this is silly heheh" when she has to pray. ROFL. I have a pretty strong influence over them so what I say to them they take very seriously - hopefully that's two pretty little apostates in the making.  Afro
    Quote from: thinkfree on September 28, 2010, 07:58 PM
    Iblis has mad debaterin' skillz. Best not step up unless you're prepared to recieve da pain.

  • Re: Are you responsible for the apostacy of anyone else?
     Reply #7 - March 10, 2010, 11:57 PM
    Quote from: Iblis on March 10, 2010, 11:20 PM
    I guess I'm partially responsible for my younger sister's path to kuffarhood. I wouldn't call her an apostate proper. She's more just an aggressive muslim girl who likes to party and binge drink and will seize upon any reason to justify her lifestyle. My increasingly vocal anti-religiosity propelled her to sort of take up that mantle and regurgitate stuff I say without putting much thought into it. I don't feel particularly proud about it because, even for a kafir, she's pretty crazy and needs to calm down and get some discipline and stop smoking and drinking and whoring herself out to random white guys (I think she's on her 5th bf?) and it also gives my parents a lot of grief and hardship - that I hate the worst.

    I also contributed significantly in the apostasy of a convert. He was originally a Ismaili from a very well off and liberal family but he got snared by the dawahgandists on campus and embraced a hardcore salafi islam. Long story short, me and him apostated from Islam around the same time and I would regularly communicate my doubts with him during the death throes of my iman. I contacted him recently and I've confirmed that I was indeed a significant reason for him leaving the faith eventually.

    I'm currently working on my two 8 and 10 year old nieces (my older sis' kids). Its more covert and involves filling their heads with skeptical thinking, buying them copious amounts of science docs and books and just generally giving my sister grief about any potentional "hijab"-ing of them by my douchefucktard brother in law. I'm pretty sure the 10 year old one is already being rather a pain in the ass and asking too many questions about salat to her dad. The 8 year old one just goes "this is silly heheh" when she has to pray. ROFL. I have a pretty strong influence over them so what I say to them they take very seriously - hopefully that's two pretty little apostates in the making.  Afro


    Show them some Carl Sagan and that will help Smiley

    You are going to be the leader of kufr soon. Pushing people away from the haqq. You are a shayateen Cheesy

    Oh God I hate that term Shayateen, just sounds retarded.
    "The more I study religions the more I am convinced that man never worshiped anything but himself."
    ~Sir Richard Francis Burton

    "I think religion is just like smoking: Both invented by people, addictive, harmful, and kills!"
    ~RIBS
  • Re: Are you responsible for the apostacy of anyone else?
     Reply #8 - March 11, 2010, 04:30 AM
    Working on my little brother Smiley i just keep giving him small food for thought type hints here and there. hes pretty chill, doesnt pray hopefully he wont starve himself during ramadan coming up.

    any advice?
    Nothing can be more contrary to religion and the clergy than reason and common sense. - Voltaire
  • Re: Are you responsible for the apostacy of anyone else?
     Reply #9 - March 11, 2010, 04:34 AM
    Honestly, just tell him and remind him to always question everything.
    "The more I study religions the more I am convinced that man never worshiped anything but himself."
    ~Sir Richard Francis Burton

    "I think religion is just like smoking: Both invented by people, addictive, harmful, and kills!"
    ~RIBS
  • Re: Are you responsible for the apostacy of anyone else?
     Reply #10 - March 11, 2010, 04:49 AM
    I try not to debate or work on anyone. Simply because of my own long journey and knowing how long it has taken me to recover from it. I think the best way to go about it is to let the kids learn about other religions themselves. Small doses of history, anthropology and theology does the trick.
  • Re: Are you responsible for the apostacy of anyone else?
     Reply #11 - March 11, 2010, 04:55 AM
    good stuff  Afro
    Nothing can be more contrary to religion and the clergy than reason and common sense. - Voltaire
  • Re: Are you responsible for the apostacy of anyone else?
     Reply #12 - March 11, 2010, 08:55 AM
    No, but I wish I could make my younger sister "see the light".
    He's no friend to the friendless
    And he's the mother of grief
    There's only sorrow for tomorrow
    Surely life is too brief
  • Re: Are you responsible for the apostacy of anyone else?
     Reply #13 - March 11, 2010, 10:05 AM
    I've had people online tell me that reading my story pushed them away from Islam, but I wouldn't say it was responsible.  For a few of the women who messaged me, it was more recognising themselves in that story, and realizing they didn;t want to be that person anymore.

    I've given up trying to deconvert my family, I hope they do live wasted lives, that's what they get for not listening to me all the billion times I've told them before.  Whatever.  parrot
    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: Are you responsible for the apostacy of anyone else?
     Reply #14 - March 11, 2010, 10:07 AM
    Your brothers are religious, then?
    He's no friend to the friendless
    And he's the mother of grief
    There's only sorrow for tomorrow
    Surely life is too brief
  • Re: Are you responsible for the apostacy of anyone else?
     Reply #15 - March 11, 2010, 10:12 AM
    No, not on the outside lol far from it.  They are hoodrat streetboys who drink, get high and get sexed up.  But they are muslims inside, where they think it matters.  Roll Eyes

    I mean, just last week the brother who lived with me was chatting about how he wanted to become more religious because that would solve all his problems, because life was better when he was a muslim, when I pointed out that he still wasn;t an ex muslim, he clarified that he meant a practising muslim.

    I give up with these people.  Let them learn the hard way, the way I did.  That's life's best way of teaching anyway.
    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: Are you responsible for the apostacy of anyone else?
     Reply #16 - March 11, 2010, 10:18 AM
    Quote
    I give up with these people.  Let them learn the hard way, the way I did.  That's life's best way of teaching anyway.


    I think this is the best way for it to be honest. There comes a point, particularly after your own journey that you just don't want to engage in debates or discussions and just want to continue with the rest of your life post-religion. I mean after you spend nearly twenty years wanting to believe and then realising that you are wasting your time, why spend another few years trying to justify your non-belief to people? Let them arrive at their own destination.
  • Re: Are you responsible for the apostacy of anyone else?
     Reply #17 - March 11, 2010, 10:22 AM
    Quote from: Omaar Khayaam on March 11, 2010, 10:18 AM
    I think this is the best way for it to be honest. There comes a point, particularly after your own journey that you just don't want to engage in debates or discussions and just want to continue with the rest of your life post-religion. I mean after you spend nearly twenty years wanting to believe and then realising that you are wasting your time, why spend another few years trying to justify your non-belief to people? Let them arrive at their own destination.


    I'm at that point now.  That initial fervour, and desire to help other people see what I can now see, has seriously died down, and I just want to get on with my own life post islam.

    If, online someone is moved by anything I write, then all to the good, but I;m not actively seeking it out anymore.
    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: Are you responsible for the apostacy of anyone else?
     Reply #18 - March 11, 2010, 07:42 PM
    I am responsible for the apostasy of at least 2 people, and I'm sure I've stopped many more from becoming too engrossed in Islam.

    If I was free to do anti-dawah without fear of repercussions from the community or my family, then trust me I'd create loads of murtads.
    .
  • Re: Are you responsible for the apostacy of anyone else?
     Reply #19 - March 11, 2010, 08:42 PM
    Quote from: BerberElla on March 11, 2010, 10:22 AM
    I'm at that point now.  That initial fervour, and desire to help other people see what I can now see, has seriously died down, and I just want to get on with my own life post islam.

    If, online someone is moved by anything I write, then all to the good, but I;m not actively seeking it out anymore.


    I've become completely apathetic towards the belief and faith of others. I only wish that they grant me the same priviledge. I've said this many times before, but i've discovered that the indifference that one shows, bothers them more than any confrontation. I usually ask them what is it about my apostacy that bothers you, does it make you lose any sleep? If it doesn't bother them the conversation comes to an end. If it bothers them, then i'll ask them to show me how to believe, which then reveals to me what makes them believe? At this point I question them on the points or arguments they have raised to support their belief and ask them to research those points thoroughly.
  • Re: Are you responsible for the apostacy of anyone else?
     Reply #20 - March 12, 2010, 09:47 AM
    I don't think I have been responsible for anyone's apostasy and really don't look for people to de-convert. I don't even think that reading my story would make any difference. I'd rather they research the claims objectively, both the various claims of the major religions and the philosophical validity of whether or not there is a god.
  • Re: Are you responsible for the apostacy of anyone else?
     Reply #21 - March 12, 2010, 10:03 AM
    I think two of my male cousins already had very liberal and skeptical mindsets. Last summer when they visited us here, I got talking to them as well as another male cousin who is a liberal open (non-hypocritical) Muslim and I talked hours and hours with them about why I chose to renounce Allah and religion altogether. One of them had already confirmed he was an atheist a year or so before (but didnt really know what it meant), one got tired of religious b.s. So it was good finding like-minded people in family.
    Pakistan Zindabad? ya Pakistan sey Zinda bhaag?

    Long Live Pakistan? Or run with your lives from Pakistan?
  • Re: Are you responsible for the apostacy of anyone else?
     Reply #22 - March 12, 2010, 08:03 PM
    Quote from: Iggy on March 10, 2010, 10:04 PM
    How many apostasies are you responsible for? Intentionally or not, have you ever convinced anyone out of Islam? Or have you even made some people less religious and more apathetic towards dogmatically following Islam?


    Quite a few, though that has never been my aim.

    Ironically the fact that I am not obsessed with trying to "defeat Islam" means that I may actually end up having more effect on some Muslims.

    Leaving Islam is no bed of roses and I can't say I have found a wonderfully happy place to replace the comfort religion can bring. But for me it is more important to be true to myself. Others can make their own mind up - I'm not interested in trying to make anyone leave Islam.
  • Re: Are you responsible for the apostacy of anyone else?
     Reply #23 - March 13, 2010, 08:37 AM
    Quote from: Hassan on March 12, 2010, 08:03 PM
    Quite a few, though that has never been my aim.


    I generally don't broadcast my atheism simply because no situation has arisen where I would need to do so, therefore I don't hold myself responsible for the apostasy of anyone.

    Quote
    Ironically the fact that I am not obsessed with trying to "defeat Islam" means that I may actually end up having more effect on some Muslims.


    True, the best that one can hope for is for them to soften their stance and not make huge claims on truth. The peaceful muslim who simply prays and fasts doesn't bother me.

    Quote
    Leaving Islam is no bed of roses and I can't say I have found a wonderfully happy place to replace the comfort religion can bring. But for me it is more important to be true to myself. Others can make their own mind up - I'm not interested in trying to make anyone leave Islam.



    I couldn't have put it any better.
  • Re: Are you responsible for the apostacy of anyone else?
     Reply #24 - March 13, 2010, 08:43 AM
    Hassan is my hero.
    Quote from: thinkfree on September 28, 2010, 07:58 PM
    Iblis has mad debaterin' skillz. Best not step up unless you're prepared to recieve da pain.

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