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 Topic: Harun Yahya uses forged fossil photos?

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  • Harun Yahya uses forged fossil photos?
     OP - March 12, 2010, 10:46 AM
    Harun Yahya is running a website which claims to hold fossils which are 100s of millions of years old and belong to alive species today (e.g he'll show a 100 million year old fossil of an insect and claim that its that of a modern day grass hopper).

    However the suspicious part is that,

    1) All of the fossils seem so well preserved and clear. Most of the fossils i've seen, such as that of the bird with the teeth, are barely any clear, you have to be a paleontologist to see which species they belong to.

    2) Each of his fossils follows a pattern of being printed on a clay/cement tablet or is part of a liquid.

    3) He does not give names for the fossils, rather he gives a fossil number, and predictably, doing a google search for the fossil numbers comes up with nothing. Also the fossil numbers mostly start with S, A, and have 5-6 digits next.  I don't think real fossils are named in this way.

    Here are some samples:

    http://www.fossil-museum.com/fossils/fosil.php?Id=5

    http://www.fossil-museum.com/fossils/fosil.php?Id=32

    http://www.fossil-museum.com/fossils/fosil.php?Id=572

    http://www.fossil-museum.com/fossils/fosil.php?Id=35

    Any thoughts? Are these fossils real or forged?
  • Re: Harun Yahya uses forged fossil photos?
     Reply #1 - March 12, 2010, 10:50 AM
    Here are my thoughts

    1: They disprove evolution
    2: There are so many of them
    3: They all belong to one person

    The words "Too good to be true" do spring to mind Smiley

    I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
  • Re: Harun Yahya uses forged fossil photos?
     Reply #2 - March 12, 2010, 10:58 AM
    Yea exactly, why would all those fossils belong to Harun Yahya? He does not provide the fossil names, so they cannot be located on any museum, and all of his fossils seem to be on a clay tablet?
  • Re: Harun Yahya uses forged fossil photos?
     Reply #3 - March 12, 2010, 11:04 AM
    If a man comes to you and offers you every original gospel of Jesus's followers, be suspicious Smiley
    I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
  • Re: Harun Yahya uses forged fossil photos?
     Reply #4 - March 12, 2010, 11:12 AM
    What are your thoughts on the fossils though rationalizer?

    Do you think they are real or forged?

    My vote goes to definitely forged. He has even added artificial shadowing underneath the fossils.
  • Re: Harun Yahya uses forged fossil photos?
     Reply #5 - March 12, 2010, 11:14 AM
    Also, since the fossils don't have a valid fossil name and are therefore not studied by any scientific organization,

    1) Who dates the fossils to find out how old they are.
    2) Which palentologists classify the fossils to be a cockroach or a grass hopper.
    3) Can insect fossils even survive millions of years as he is claiming. I mean, insects don't have any bones, and the boneless stuff gets decomposed. I don't see how a grass hopper or cockroach fossil could survive so long.
  • Re: Harun Yahya uses forged fossil photos?
     Reply #6 - March 12, 2010, 11:17 AM
    Let's see.  If ONE rabbit fossil was found in the precambrian sedimentary layer it would completely disprove the scientific theory of evolution through natural selection.  This fossil would be looked at by the world's most respected scientists to determine its authenticity.

    Now suddenly there are NUMEROUS fossils disproving this theory and not one of them has been checked by world leading scientists.  Not only that, but they are ALL owned by one person who just happens to have been trying to disprove evolution for years.

    If I HAD to gamble the lives of my family on this, I know which way I would bet.  Effectively these fossils would disprove evolution, and there is simply too much evidence in favour of evolution for these fossils to be anything other than frauds.
    I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
  • Re: Harun Yahya uses forged fossil photos?
     Reply #7 - March 12, 2010, 11:21 AM
    Quote from: liberated on March 12, 2010, 11:14 AM
    3) Can insect fossils even survive millions of years as he is claiming. I mean, insects don't have any bones, and the boneless stuff gets decomposed. I don't see how a grass hopper or cockroach fossil could survive so long.


    I haven't researched fossilisation at all, but I think some things people call fossils are prints in rocks which later solidify and so there are no physical remains of the creature itself but rather just a print of its body as it decayed whilst the solidified substance was still viscous.  You'd have to check this though.
    I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
  • Re: Harun Yahya uses forged fossil photos?
     Reply #8 - March 12, 2010, 11:24 AM
    Richard Dawkins talks about Harun Yahya:

    Part 1
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FPxGDXSJZfc

    Part 2
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uyzPpJazwY8&feature=related

    Part 3
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rFZJsz8aJq0&feature=related

    Part 4
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uxT8qhP1v7Q&feature=related
    I know someday you'll have a beautiful life, I know you'll be a star
    In somebody else's sky, but why, why, why
    Can't it be, can't it be mine

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  • Re: Harun Yahya uses forged fossil photos?
     Reply #9 - March 12, 2010, 11:22 PM
    A Turkish friend of mine says that the great majority of Turks regard Yahya as the village idiot.  parrot
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Harun Yahya uses forged fossil photos?
     Reply #10 - March 12, 2010, 11:51 PM
    Quote from: osmanthus on March 12, 2010, 11:22 PM
    A Turkish friend of mine says that the great majority of Turks regard Yahya as the village idiot.  parrot


    Thats good to hear. I thought Turks adored the guy.

    Also, in his book, he used a picture of a insect with a hook in it, cut out from some National Geographic magazine. Go to his website, it will piss you off because of his ignorance lol.
    "The more I study religions the more I am convinced that man never worshiped anything but himself."
    ~Sir Richard Francis Burton

    "I think religion is just like smoking: Both invented by people, addictive, harmful, and kills!"
    ~RIBS
  • Re: Harun Yahya uses forged fossil photos?
     Reply #11 - March 13, 2010, 04:09 AM
    Yeah those photos of fishing lures were hilarious. Way to go with the photoshop.  dance
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Harun Yahya uses forged fossil photos?
     Reply #12 - March 13, 2010, 02:40 PM
    Actually it wasn't even from a national geographic website, it was from the website of a random guy who makes fishing lures for a hobby, lol
  • Re: Harun Yahya uses forged fossil photos?
     Reply #13 - March 13, 2010, 02:46 PM


    This one is forged. He says its a cricket and its 125 million years old. Come on. How can a cricket leave such a great imprint and how can it survive so long.
  • Re: Harun Yahya uses forged fossil photos?
     Reply #14 - March 13, 2010, 02:55 PM
    Quote from: liberated on March 13, 2010, 02:46 PM
    This one is forged. He says its a cricket and its 125 million years old. Come on. How can a cricket leave such a great imprint and how can it survive so long.


    I don't know whether the photo is forged, but insects can leave such remains. What you see is not the original tissue, it is stone that has a slightly different colour and substance than the surrounding stone, because different chemical processes happened in the organic tissue than the surrounding sediments.
    bleed for me...kill for me...die for me
  • Re: Harun Yahya uses forged fossil photos?
     Reply #15 - March 13, 2010, 03:15 PM
    Like Nineberry said - look at what the definition of a fossil & fossilisation is.  From what I understood of your post, it sounds like you think they are perfectly preserved speciments of the original
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  • Re: Harun Yahya uses forged fossil photos?
     Reply #16 - March 13, 2010, 04:04 PM
    Quote from: liberated on March 13, 2010, 02:46 PM
    This one is forged. He says its a cricket and its 125 million years old. Come on. How can a cricket leave such a great imprint and how can it survive so long.


    Re-read what I said earlier.  For example I have seen a fossilised tree, it had no wood at all, it was a tree trunk made entirely of stone; fascinating!

    But I do think these are fakes, otherwise he'd let some experts look at them.  What many people don't realise is that scientists WANT to disprove scientific theories, it is a sure way to get a name for yourself and possibly a nobel prize.  Disproving the scientific theory of evolution through natural selection would bring anyone a nobel prize without question, if these were genuine then scientists would be queuing up to validate them.
    I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
  • Re: Harun Yahya uses forged fossil photos?
     Reply #17 - March 13, 2010, 04:13 PM
    Mustn't all be fakes. Just his logic is simply wrong. It isn't enough to say "look, the old ones and the current ones look very similar, so there cannot have been an evolution". There are differences that you cannot see unless you are an expert or have a closer look. Also, he simply ignores the fossils that don't have similarly looking current doppelgängers.

    It's like presenting these two photos:




    And then concluding "look, they look completely the same, so computers have not changed over the last 30 years, I have disproved Moore's law!"

    bleed for me...kill for me...die for me
  • Re: Harun Yahya uses forged fossil photos?
     Reply #18 - March 13, 2010, 05:08 PM
    Quote from: NineBerry on March 13, 2010, 04:13 PM
    Mustn't all be fakes. Just his logic is simply wrong. It isn't enough to say "look, the old ones and the current ones look very similar, so there cannot have been an evolution". There are differences that you cannot see unless you are an expert or have a closer look. Also, he simply ignores the fossils that don't have similarly looking current doppelgängers.


    They aren't necessarily fake because he made them, they could be fake because he is claiming they are something they are not.  One of the fossils was of something like a flower, and he was comparing it with something like a sea worm which looks similar but is obviously completely different.

    As I said, if they did disprove evolution then scientists would be falling over themselves to prove it.
    I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
  • Re: Harun Yahya uses forged fossil photos?
     Reply #19 - March 13, 2010, 07:03 PM
    Quote from: TheRationalizer on March 13, 2010, 04:04 PM
    Re-read what I said earlier.  For example I have seen a fossilised tree, it had no wood at all, it was a tree trunk made entirely of stone; fascinating!

    Where?
    Quote from: TheRationalizer on March 13, 2010, 04:04 PM
    But I do think these are fakes, otherwise he'd let some experts look at them.  What many people don't realise is that scientists WANT to disprove scientific theories, it is a sure way to get a name for yourself and possibly a nobel prize.  Disproving the scientific theory of evolution through natural selection would bring anyone a nobel prize without question, if these were genuine then scientists would be queuing up to validate them.

    exc. point
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  • Re: Harun Yahya uses forged fossil photos?
     Reply #20 - March 13, 2010, 08:15 PM
    Quote from: NineBerry on March 13, 2010, 04:13 PM
    Mustn't all be fakes. Just his logic is simply wrong. It isn't enough to say "look, the old ones and the current ones look very similar, so there cannot have been an evolution". There are differences that you cannot see unless you are an expert or have a closer look. Also, he simply ignores the fossils that don't have similarly looking current doppelgängers.

    It's like presenting these two photos:

    (Clicky for piccy!)
    (Clicky for piccy!)

    And then concluding "look, they look completely the same, so computers have not changed over the last 30 years, I have disproved Moore's law!"

    There was an excellent thread about this on IIDB a few years back. I'll see if I can find it.

    Short version is that Yahya does do a lot of superficial comparisons which fail under scrutiny. As one example, a skull he claimed was the oldest panther skull ever found turned out to belong to a hyena.
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Harun Yahya uses forged fossil photos?
     Reply #21 - March 14, 2010, 10:09 AM
    Quote from: IsLame on March 13, 2010, 07:03 PM
    Where?exc. point


    Not all fossils have organic material preserved.  One type of fossil is merely a print of the body as it decayed in a soft material which later solidified, another is where chemicals leak into the decaying body and actually replace the organic material resulting in a kind of "turned to stone" effect.  So in some fossils it is possible to see intricate details of an insect's wing.  The petrified tree at the London natural history museum is fascinating.
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    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
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