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Theme Changer

 Topic: What as the Religion in the Indian Subcontinent before Islam?

 (Read 2784 times)
  • 1« Previous thread | Next thread »
  • What as the Religion in the Indian Subcontinent before Islam?
     OP - March 13, 2010, 11:03 PM

    Countries like Pakistan, Indian, Bangladesh and rest of the neighboring countries? Were they all Hindus, or idol worshipers or pagers or something else?
  • Re: What as the Religion in the Indian Subcontinent before Islam?
     Reply #1 - March 13, 2010, 11:04 PM

    They were primarily hindus and buddhists I believe
    Perhaps with some zoroastrian influence as well

    At evening, casual flocks of pigeons make
    Ambiguous undulations as they sink,
    Downward to darkness, on extended wings. - Stevens
  • Re: What as the Religion in the Indian Subcontinent before Islam?
     Reply #2 - March 13, 2010, 11:16 PM

    Countries like Pakistan, Indian, Bangladesh and rest of the neighboring countries? Were they all Hindus, or idol worshipers or pagers or something else?


    They were almost all idol worshippers & pagans. THe regions of Pakistan, Bangladesh & even Afghanistan might be Buddhist. Sind, which is in Pakistan today, was described by Muslim historians as having a Hindu king & a Buddhist population. In Bengal(Bangladesh & West Bengal) the Pala dynasty was Buddhist, the Sena dynasty which succeeded it was Hindu. It was from Bengal that missionaries went to Tibet to spread Buddhism there, very near the eve of the Islamic conquest. There were a few Zoros & some monotheists belonging to Hindu sects, but few & far between. Zoros themselves fled to India to escape Islamic persecution, but Islam managed to invade that place too.

    The biggest & best Buddhist monasteries in India, Nalanda, Odantapuri, Vikramshila etc were destroyed by Muslim hordes. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nalanda

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vikrama%C5%9B%C4%ABla_University


    Muslims took their word for idol from the Buddha, they called idols "but"-idol worshippers were called but paran & idol smashers given the "honorific"  but shikan.

    Many Hindu temples were razed to the ground as well.

    Thats one of the things I admire about Hinduism, Islam managed to either utterly obliterate or greatly diminish Jews, Christians, Zoros, etc in the Middle East & Buddhists in the sub continent-but Hinduism, the religion of 300 million gods managed to survive brilliantly when faced by a conquest by the most belligerent monotheistic faith!  Afro

    World renowned historian Will Durant"...the Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex order and freedom can at any moment be overthrown..."
  • Re: What as the Religion in the Indian Subcontinent before Islam?
     Reply #3 - March 13, 2010, 11:32 PM

    This account of the Islamic conquest of India is written by world renowned historian Will Durant. I have also used Durant in my signature.

    I might add, Durant was an atheist, having quit his ancestral faith of Christianity, & no convert to Hinduism either.

    Durant was an atheist, having abandoned Christianity several years before.

    - This passage was written before George Bush became President. This passage, written by a well-credentialed liberal, was not written for the purpose of helping Bush in any political battle.

    - This passage predates the modern state of Israel and the mideast wars that followed Isreal's founding.


    The Mohammedan Conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precarious thing, whose delicate complex of order and liberty, culture and peace may at any time be overthrown by barbarians invading from without or multiplying within. The Hindus had allowed their strength to be wasted in internal division and war; they had adopted religions like Buddhims and Jainism, which unnerved them for the tasks of life; they had failed to organize their forces for the protection of their frontiers and their capitals, their wealth and their freedom, from the hordes of Scythians, Huns, Afghans and Turks hovering about India's boundaries and waiting for national weakness to let them in. For four hundred years (600-1000 A.D.) India invited Conquest; and at last it came.

    The first Moslem attack was a passing raid upon Multan, in the western Punjab (664 A.D.). Similar raids occurred at the convenience of the invaders during the next
    three centuries, with the result that the Moslems established themselves in the Indus valley about the same time that their Arab co-religionists in the West were fighting the battle of Tours (732 A.D.) for the mastery of Europe. But the real Moslem conquest of India did not come till the turn of the first millenium after Christ.

    In the year 997 a Turkish chieftan by the name of Mahmud became of Sultan of the little state of Ghazni, in eastern Afghanistan. Mahmud knew that his throne was
    young and poor, and saw that India, across the border, was old and rich; the conclusion was obvious. Pretending a holy zeal for destroying Hindu idolatry, he swept across the frontier with a force inspired by a pious aspiration for booty. He met the unprepared Hindus at Bhimnagar, slaughtered them, pillaged their cities, destroyed their temples, and carried away the accumulated treasures of centuries. . . . . Each winter Mahmud descended into India, filled his treasure chest with spoils, and amused his men with full freedom to pillage and kill; each spring he returned to his capital richer than before. At Mathura (on the Jumna) he took from the temple its statues of gold encrusted with precious stones, and emptied its coffers of a vast quantity of gold, silver and jewelry; he expressed his admiration for the architecture of the great shrine, judged that its duplication would cost one hundred million dinars and the labor of 200 years, and then ordered it to be soaked with naptha and burnt to the ground. Six years later he sacked another opulent city of northern India, Somnath, killed all its 50,000 inhabitants, and dragged its wealth to Ghazni. In the end he became, perhaps, the richest king that history has ever known. Sometimes he spared the population of the ravaged cities, and took them home to be sold as slaves; but so great was the number of such captives that after some years no one could be found to offer more than a few shillings for a slave. Before every important engagement Mahmud knelt in prayer, and asked the blessing of God upon his arms. He reigned for a third of a century; and when he died, full of years and honors, Moslem historians ranked him as the greatest monarch of his time and one of the greatest sovereigns of any age.

    Seeing the canonization that success had brought to this magnificent thief, other Moslem rulers profited by his example, though none succeeded in bettering his instruction. In 1186 the Ghuri, a Turkish tribe of Afghanistan, invaded India, captured the city of Delhi, destroyed its temples, confiscated its wealth, and settled down in its palaces to establish the Sultanate of Delhi - - - an alien despotism fastened upon northern India for three centuries, and checked only by assassination and revolt. The first of these bloody sultans, Kutb-d Din Aibak, was a normal specimen of his kind - fanatical, ferocious and merciless. His gifts, as the Mohammedan historian tells us, "were bestowed by hundreds of thousands, and his slaughters likewise were by hundreds of thousands." [citation omitted.] In one victory of this warrior . . . . "50,000 men came under the collar of slavery, and the plain became black as pitch with Hindus." [citation omitted]. Another sultan, Balban, punished rebels and brigands by casting them under the feet of elephants, or removing their skins, stuffing these with straw and hanging them from the gates of Delhi.
    Will Durant, "Our Oriental Heritage," pp. 459-461, 1935

    World renowned historian Will Durant"...the Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex order and freedom can at any moment be overthrown..."
  • Re: What as the Religion in the Indian Subcontinent before Islam?
     Reply #4 - March 13, 2010, 11:44 PM

    very interesting read rashna
  • Re: What as the Religion in the Indian Subcontinent before Islam?
     Reply #5 - March 13, 2010, 11:52 PM

    very interesting read rashna


     thnkyu

    World renowned historian Will Durant"...the Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex order and freedom can at any moment be overthrown..."
  • Re: What as the Religion in the Indian Subcontinent before Islam?
     Reply #6 - March 13, 2010, 11:54 PM

    This is an interesting video I came across yesterday:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tVQ4l5IOHKc

    I still think as an atheist, that if one's going to be a theist at all, polytheism makes a lot more sense than monotheism. Monotheism fails utterly and miserably when it comes to theodicy and the morality of "God".

    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
  • Re: What as the Religion in the Indian Subcontinent before Islam?
     Reply #7 - March 14, 2010, 12:01 AM

    Countries like Pakistan, Indian, Bangladesh and rest of the neighboring countries? Were they all Hindus, or idol worshipers or pagers or something else?


    Mostly Hindu. Buddhism was already nearly wiped out by the Hindus by the time Muslims rolled along, but there were still an extensive buddhist presence in east India and even Afghanistan. There are also various local tribal pagan religions that were smattered about the south asian subcontinent. Those were specific to various indigenous tribes that were isolated or separate from mainstream hindu civilization.

    Iblis has mad debaterin' skillz. Best not step up unless you're prepared to recieve da pain.

  • Re: What as the Religion in the Indian Subcontinent before Islam?
     Reply #8 - March 14, 2010, 01:02 AM

    Another thing about the Indian sub continent pre Islam was that it had the practice of syncretic religions & subscribing to more than a single faith at the same time, which is common to many polytheisms. Monotheism requires that people subscribe exclusively to one religion.

    Syncretism is still existent in much of Asia.

    In China, much of the population is Confucian, Taoist, Buddhist & worship various folksy\local gods & goddesses.In Japan, the overwhelming majority is both Shinto & Buddhist, but they have Christian weddings.

    It was a similar case in India. For instance Chandragupta Maurya,3rd century B.C. Buddhist Emperor Ashoka's grandfather, adopted Jainism in his old age & starved himself to  death, Jain style.Ashoka became a Buddhist, but continued to refer to himself as a "kshatriya" (ie member of the ruler-warrior caste)which is a feature of the Hindu caste system.

    Kanishka, 1st century A.D. Buddhist Emperor, issued coins which depicted Hindu, Greek, Roman, Parthian etc gods.

    The 7th century A.D. Buddhist Emperor Harshavardhana, converted to Buddhism,patronized the Chinese Buddhist monk Hiuen Tsang, held Buddhist councils, but never renounced his worship of the Hindu God Shiva.

    Buddhists worshipped various Hindu Gods & Hindus adopted Buddha as one of their Gods, as an incarnation of their God Vishnu.

    Even today, in Thailand, their national epic is the Ramakein which is adapted from the Ramayana, & even Thai King takes the honorific title of "Rama" who's a Hindu God.

    Religions like Islam, Christanity, Judaism, Zoroastrianism requires exclusive adherence, you can't belong to them & belong to some other religion simultaneously or worship any random God you pick from another religion along with them. Then that One True God gets "jealous." grin12

    India, not having exclusivistic monotheisms, didn't have exclusivistic adherence either-like China & Japan still don't have exclusive adherence.

    World renowned historian Will Durant"...the Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex order and freedom can at any moment be overthrown..."
  • Re: What as the Religion in the Indian Subcontinent before Islam?
     Reply #9 - March 14, 2010, 01:37 AM

    Islam in Bengal was and is very syncretic until the rise of fundamentalist Islam in the modern era. The native Islam of many parts of India was a melding of sufi, hindu and islamic elements combined with persian, indian and arab cultural elements. When Islam came to India it did not come as a pure religion, it came part and parcel of what historians call the Turko-Persian culture. When people were converting to Islam, they were not merely converting to a religion, but also signing up with a new dominant perso-islamic civilization that had taken over India.

    Even Christianity in Europe was hardly purely dogmatic when it was first adopted, there was plenty of syncretism between Christianity and Germanic and Latin culture. In fact the whole culture of the crusaders was basically a weird and contradictory mixture of the Germanic warrior ethos with Christian spirituality.

    Iblis has mad debaterin' skillz. Best not step up unless you're prepared to recieve da pain.

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