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Theme Changer

 Topic: What if I'm Wrong?

 (Read 6382 times)
  • 12 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »
  • What if I'm Wrong?
     OP - March 15, 2010, 10:09 PM

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LOHZxwl69kU
  • Re: What if I'm Wrong?
     Reply #1 - March 15, 2010, 10:12 PM

    Very apt - for anyone that has been following the "Rock" in the image thread, then you have to watch between 0.45 to 1.05  Cheesy

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: What if I'm Wrong?
     Reply #2 - March 15, 2010, 11:02 PM

     Cheesy Man that's a great find. Short and to the point. I love it.  bunny

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: What if I'm Wrong?
     Reply #3 - March 15, 2010, 11:05 PM


    +1
    Pretty much sums up my position.
  • Re: What if I'm Wrong?
     Reply #4 - March 16, 2010, 12:22 AM

    Haha. Nice one. Sums it up for me, as well.

    The only thing we have to fear is fear itself
    - 32nd United States President Franklin D. Roosevelt
  • Re: What if I'm Wrong?
     Reply #5 - March 16, 2010, 01:18 AM

    ahahha i loved the ending!! Cheesy
  • Re: What if I'm Wrong?
     Reply #6 - March 16, 2010, 02:57 AM

    Brilliant. What an awesome find.  Afro
  • Re: What if I'm Wrong?
     Reply #7 - March 16, 2010, 08:01 AM

    Nice! My thoughts exactly.
  • Re: What if I'm Wrong?
     Reply #8 - March 16, 2010, 08:04 AM

    Lets turn that around and ask. At any point after your apostasy did the thought ever occur to you, "What if i'm wrong?"
  • Re: What if I'm Wrong?
     Reply #9 - March 16, 2010, 08:28 AM

    Sometimes that thought hits me. I'm still a young apostate. If I am wrong, then I guess I'm going to hell. But I am wrong, then a lot of people are going to hell. I still have a hard time believing this. I really want to believe that most people will go to heaven.

    But polytheists and atheists are going to hell. And honestly any other religion other than Islam seems to leave you in hell. I am not sure I could live with myself in heaven, knowing a majority of all people are burning in hell. The 100 000 years of homo sapiens*. And all the other hominids. All people before Islam, and after Islam until the end of time.

    Not to mention that Allah has let people kill in his name for ages and not intervened. If people were committing atrocious crimes in my name I would shout out from the highest roof top and command them to stop.

    I just can't believe if there is a God out there, which is becoming harder and harder to believe, that he would be the God of The Bible and the Quran. His mentality and personality in those books reflects more closely the mentality and personality of people of that time. And not of ours. In fact the morality and science and knowledge in the those books should be unmatchable. For all time. But its not.

    Lets take an example, Lord of the Rings, Dan Brown and Harry Potter. These books are the most popular thanks really to great story telling and word of mouth.

    If the Quran really, really, really was the word of God, it would incontestable, everybody would be a muslim. This is not the case.

    Sorry, for the rant, I have to write like this in order to fight doubt and fear. Rationality puts fear back in its grave.

    Source:
    http://astrobiology.nasa.gov/ask-an-astrobiologist/question/?id=1522
  • Re: What if I'm Wrong?
     Reply #10 - March 16, 2010, 08:28 AM

    Lets turn that around and ask. At any point after your apostasy did the thought ever occur to you, "What if i'm wrong?"


    Has it occured to you? What is your thinking process if so.
  • Re: What if I'm Wrong?
     Reply #11 - March 16, 2010, 08:35 AM

    EDIT:
    Actually this argument is not good. I am arguing from masses (popularity of opinion) but for me in a more realistic manner, if there really was a book from God this would be an obvious truth. It's not though. The rest is a bit of an emotional plea, more based on my views of morality. I might very well be wrong. But it's just seems incongruent with somebody that has the Most Merciful as a title. Seems like Most Merciful only to those who obey him.

    In the end the human mind has its in own internal logic, anything that contradicts its rationality will be superfluous bullshit. And I think religion has found a nifty way to override this, to go outside rationality and make reality seem even more amazing. Add fear to this mix and indoctrination since a young age. Add human morality and voila, religion. IF God truly existed or at least if religion came from this deity then rationality should be what we use, that along with proof using our 5 senses. As far as I know we have nothing else to go on.

    In the end, when I look at marvel of the laws of physics and the universe I strikes me odd that the 7th century desert book is the work of this creator.


    ---
    Not sure if this argument was better *sigh*
  • Re: What if I'm Wrong?
     Reply #12 - March 16, 2010, 08:35 AM

    Has it occured to you? What is your thinking process if so.


    It used to occur to me when I was questionning. But once you have crossed that apostasy line, that thought would have been a hurdle that should have been crossed, bear in mind that I'm nearly thirty six and my doubts began at fourteen. I "officially" apostated when I was thirty four so I had twenty years of turning every stone to make sure.
  • Re: What if I'm Wrong?
     Reply #13 - March 16, 2010, 08:39 AM

    Seeing as God has made his existence so hidden, his voice so unheard, and his whereabouts so unknown, I'd tend to think that if there were a God then he would probably be humble and modest, and would probably hate all the attention he receives from his fanclub...

    At least, if I was a God and I had created this universe for mankind and then mankind used me as a way to kill what I created, I'd probably be pissed off about religion.
  • Re: What if I'm Wrong?
     Reply #14 - March 16, 2010, 08:45 AM

    he couldn't be any more right. great find, hassan!

    I know someday you'll have a beautiful life, I know you'll be a star
    In somebody else's sky, but why, why, why
    Can't it be, can't it be mine

    https://twitter.com/AlharbiMoe
  • Re: What if I'm Wrong?
     Reply #15 - March 16, 2010, 09:10 AM

    Sometimes that thought hits me. I'm still a young apostate. If I am wrong, then I guess I'm going to hell. But I am wrong, then a lot of people are going to hell. I still have a hard time believing this. I really want to believe that most people will go to heaven.


    Like I said earlier, make sure you have turned every stone you can. Examining theology, anthropology, science and the huge variety of religions should be a good starting point.

    Quote
    But polytheists and atheists are going to hell. And honestly any other religion other than Islam seems to leave you in hell. I am not sure I could live with myself in heaven, knowing a majority of all people are burning in hell. The 100 000 years of homo sapiens*. And all the other hominids. All people before Islam, and after Islam until the end of time.


    Islam does have a take on this, so let me play devil's advocate here and say that in Islam prophets were sent to every nation and tribe throughout history with some form of monotheism. It's the people who have corrupted the primordial faith. Islam is the "final" religion and abbrogates all the previous messages. The "ummah" of those messengers who followed those messages correctly will go to jannah and as for those who didn't get the message, Allah will judge accordingly. If people have had a distorted view of Islam, then they will not be punished.

    The flipside to this is, is to read the history of world religions and see empirically what has happened and also to study anthropology to check if it confirms what Islam is telling us.

    Quote
    Not to mention that Allah has let people kill in his name for ages and not intervened. If people were committing atrocious crimes in my name I would shout out from the highest roof top and command them to stop.


    What about free will?

    Quote
    I just can't believe if there is a God out there, which is becoming harder and harder to believe, that he would be the God of The Bible and the Quran. His mentality and personality in those books reflects more closely the mentality and personality of people of that time. And not of ours. In fact the morality and science and knowledge in the those books should be unmatchable. For all time. But its not.


    Your first remark "I just can't believe if there is a God out there", is where you should concentrate your study on (if you have not already done so) once you have established to yourself that he doesn't exist, then pondering about the Quran or Bible is superfluous.

    Quote
    Lets take an example, Lord of the Rings, Dan Brown and Harry Potter. These books are the most popular thanks really to great story telling and word of mouth.

    If the Quran really, really, really was the word of God, it would incontestable, everybody would be a muslim. This is not the case.


    This is where the element of "faith" comes in.

    Quote
    Sorry, for the rant, I have to write like this in order to fight doubt and fear. Rationality puts fear back in its grave.


    Not to worry and stay well.

    Source:
    http://astrobiology.nasa.gov/ask-an-astrobiologist/question/?id=1522
    [/quote]
  • Re: What if I'm Wrong?
     Reply #16 - March 16, 2010, 09:22 AM

    Thanks Omar  far away hug

    Yeah Islam deals well with previous ideologies, too bad anthropology doesn't help it out. Nor archaeology, so it falls there. Well at least its claims are simply not proven outside its own scriptures.

    Free will, good point. But what about a personal god that answers prayers? I have prayed for peace, never seems to come. It seems doubtful a personal god answers prayers.

    And you are right; I have totally declined to read anything about God from the perspective of an atheist, until now. Well actually I haven’t started yet. The reason why I avoided any kind of debate or deeper reading was because I knew it would have affected my faith. So I avoided it like the pest.

    Funny thing though, I used to tell myself, if Islam fell I would pretty much become an agnostic or atheist. I thought there is no proof for God, and if there is its all man-made. So, religions are man-made, and even outside religions, claims of a God are man-made. How can I be certain then?

    This is where I'm at right now, but I need to keep reading I guess.
  • Re: What if I'm Wrong?
     Reply #17 - March 16, 2010, 09:28 AM

    Omar - whats is the quote in your new avatar?

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: What if I'm Wrong?
     Reply #18 - March 16, 2010, 09:37 AM

    Omar - whats is the quote in your new avatar?


    It says:-

    "Science can teach us, and I think our own hearts can teach us, no longer to look around for imaginary supports, no longer to invent allies in the sky, but rather to look to our own efforts here below to make this world a fit place to live in, instead of the sort of place that churches in all these centuries have made it."

    From "Why I am not a Christian"
  • Re: What if I'm Wrong?
     Reply #19 - March 16, 2010, 10:15 AM

    When I look at marvel of the laws of physics and the universe I strikes me odd that the 7th century desert book is the work of this creator.


    Excellent, I am going to use that on my youtube channel Smiley

    I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
  • Re: What if I'm Wrong?
     Reply #20 - March 16, 2010, 10:22 AM

    Sorry, for the rant, I have to write like this in order to fight doubt and fear. Rationality puts fear back in its grave.


    "What if I am wrong" was the hardest part of me going from agnostic to atheist.  What made it easy was setting my mind into a frame where I accepted that I am already going to go to hell, and that I'd rather be in hell burning than spend eternity in heaven with some evil bastard that burns people in hell.

    I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
  • Re: What if I'm Wrong?
     Reply #21 - March 16, 2010, 10:53 AM

    'Tis better to reign in Hell than serve in Heav'n'

    I don't have so much of a problem with thinking that I may be wrong. I know that I could be, but religion just seems too much of a pile of unbelievable and amusing crap to be true.
  • Re: What if I'm Wrong?
     Reply #22 - March 16, 2010, 11:51 AM

    I dont worry about being wrong, because I KNOW Islam is completely man-made.

    I am agnostic about another creator, but I also know that if I remain true to myself and a good person, then the God that everyone else believes in, will let me through the pearly gates anyway.

    So I have no problem being comfortable with believing what I do.  I am using the tools that God himself gave me.

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: What if I'm Wrong?
     Reply #23 - March 16, 2010, 05:41 PM

    Great find. More to the point than the popular RD video, although that one had a slightly different argument.

    Anyways, I don't think lately that I got Islam (or any religion for that matter) wrong, I am afraid that God is as Islam says he is and he actually really guides/misguides people as he wishes, and I just happened to be unlucky.

    But it's really unlikely, and even if it is, not that I have a choice. But probably that I can think about it means there's no need to worry.

    "In every time and culture there are pressures to conform to the prevailing prejudices. But there are also, in every place and epoch, those who value the truth; who record the evidence faithfully. Future generations are in their debt." -Carl Sagan

  • Re: What if I'm Wrong?
     Reply #24 - March 16, 2010, 09:08 PM

    There have been a few times when I've wondered if I was wrong, but not because I'm afraid I may have actually been wrong. Simply because there's no definite proof either way. Then I remember all the ridiculous shit I escaped from and go, "oh yeah. heh." And continue on with life Afro

    The only thing we have to fear is fear itself
    - 32nd United States President Franklin D. Roosevelt
  • Re: What if I'm Wrong?
     Reply #25 - March 16, 2010, 09:36 PM

    I'm subscribed to the maker of this vid - I recommend checking out his channel:

    http://www.youtube.com/user/eequalsfb
  • Re: What if I'm Wrong?
     Reply #26 - March 20, 2010, 03:55 AM

    I was never afraid of God. Even when I was a practicing Muslim (11-14 years old), I ignored any Islamic concept that wasn't logical to me. I always thought that God was "too great" to enforce such stupid concept.
  • Re: What if I'm Wrong?
     Reply #27 - March 20, 2010, 01:51 PM

    You must have been an early deep thinker.  I guess you might have got  from your dad, was he like that too?

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: What if I'm Wrong?
     Reply #28 - March 20, 2010, 02:41 PM

    My dad is pretty laid-back in his attitude, he didn't start praying until he 36. Before that, he only prayed during Ramadan  whistling2.  But no I don't find him deep thinker when it comes to religion. Maybe he's hiding his doubts from me. 
  • Re: What if I'm Wrong?
     Reply #29 - March 20, 2010, 02:46 PM

    My dad is pretty laid-back in his attitude, he didn't start praying until he 36. Before that, he only prayed during Ramadan  whistling2.  But no I don't find him deep thinker when it comes to religion. Maybe he's hiding his doubts from me. 

    I didnt mean just in respect to religion itself, but generally speaking..

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
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