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 Poll

  • Question: Does God Allow Hitting One's Wife?
  • Yes (even if it means lightly, with miswak etc...) - 28 (100%)
  • No, it means something else, (i.e. Leave them alone, strike a similitude etc...) - 0 (0%)
  • Total Voters: 28

 Topic: To All Muslims Here: Does God Allow Hitting One's Wife?

 (Read 25802 times)
  • Previous page 1 2 34 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Re: To All Muslims Here: Does God Allow Hitting One's Wife?
     Reply #60 - March 19, 2010, 11:40 PM

    Depending on who you're talking to, and how much you want to explain away embarassing things in it, of course.

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: To All Muslims Here: Does God Allow Hitting One's Wife?
     Reply #61 - March 19, 2010, 11:47 PM
    Quote from: Shahid Raza on March 19, 2010, 11:34 PM
    He takes a veeeeeeeeery long time to get to the point.


    I hate it when ppl can't get to the point - it makes me think they are hiding something.
  • Re: To All Muslims Here: Does God Allow Hitting One's Wife?
     Reply #62 - March 19, 2010, 11:49 PM
    Quote from: billy on March 19, 2010, 11:38 PM
    I love it when they say that. Because they also say, 'Islam is so beautiful because its so simple and easy to understand and follow'


    No! Stupid! It's easy to understand if you believe it - but you need 100 years of study and unattainable knowledge of Arabic, Nahw, balagha, tafseer, hadith, asbabunuzool, uloom al hadith and uncle tom cobbly - to refute it!

    Stupid kafir!
  • Re: To All Muslims Here: Does God Allow Hitting One's Wife?
     Reply #63 - March 19, 2010, 11:59 PM

    To which, Hassan, most people bow their heads and accept is the case!


    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: To All Muslims Here: Does God Allow Hitting One's Wife?
     Reply #64 - March 20, 2010, 04:55 AM
    Quote from: Hassan on March 19, 2010, 11:47 PM
    I hate it when ppl can't get to the point - it makes me think they are hiding something.


    Exaclty. Sites like islamonline.net and reading islam spend an hour thanking the question asker and praising the prophet when the fucking answer is two lines long  Roll Eyes. And then there's this bullshit answer where they're obviously trying to hide that marital rape is allowed/condoned in the quran- and coming from a woman no less:

    Quote
    Responding to your question, the prominent Muslim scholar and da`iyah based in London Zienab Mostafa, states the following:

    Intimate relations are based on mutual feelings between the husband and wife. We learn from the example of Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) that he was the best to his wives, and he never forced them to satisfy his sexual desire. Rather, he criticized those who immediately jump into sexual intercourse without introductions that enhance the feelings between the husband and wife. Therefore, intimate relations are not just acts to seek sexual gratification; rather they should strengthen the relationship between the couple.

    Blah blah blah

    Quote
    The wife’s refusal could be attributed to many reasons that the husband should be diligent enough to try and understand. Some of these reasons might be one of the following: her emotional state could be down, she might be expecting her monthly cycle which makes her irritated, she might not like the way her husband approaches her and she does not want to talk about it, and there could be other reasons as well. Therefore, the husband should take the initiative and try to figure out the reason behind his wife’s refusal. Open and gentle communication between the husband and wife is important and can help resolve this issue.

    Blah

    And finally her point. Who the hell would ever want to admit this?

    Quote
    Of course if the husband insists on sleeping with his wife by force, it would not be considered rape since this is a right granted to him, but it is also not in accordance with Islamic teachings. Such an act contradicts the Sunnah of the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) and the ethics of intercourse. Gentleness and kindness are among the manners of intimate relations in Islam.



    "We were married by a Reform rabbi in Long Island. A very Reform rabbi. A Nazi."-- Woody Allen
  • Re: To All Muslims Here: Does God Allow Hitting One's Wife?
     Reply #65 - March 20, 2010, 11:10 AM
    Quote from: Angel54 on March 20, 2010, 04:55 AM
    Of course if the husband insists on sleeping with his wife by force, it would not be considered rape since this is a right granted to him, but it is also not in accordance with Islamic teachings. Such an act contradicts the Sunnah of the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) and the ethics of intercourse. Gentleness and kindness are among the manners of intimate relations in Islam.


    Many Islamic speakers come out with this sort of contradictory double-speak all the time - and say it as if it explains a difficult issue nicely. I can just imagine some Sheikh saying this in response to a question - in front of an audience - and everyone saying "Mashallah!"

    But look at it!

    It doesn't make sense!

    1. In Islam a hubby is allowed to sleep with his wife by force.

    2. In Islam sleeping with your wife by force is against Islamic teachings and contradicts Sunnah.

    WTF?Huh?...  So it's allowed by Islam but it's against Islam?

    If it's allowed under Islam then it's not against Islam. If it's against Islam then it shouldn't be allowed in Islam.

    It's just the typical double-talk way of accommodating the nasty facts of Shari'ah yet trying to distance Islam from the moral implication of them.
  • Re: To All Muslims Here: Does God Allow Hitting One's Wife?
     Reply #66 - March 21, 2010, 03:42 PM
    Just wanted to make this clear for anyone who is interested and meets any of those who deny this verse means "Hit".

    Here are some verses from the Qur'an where the verb daraba means "Hit". I want you to notice how it takes it's verb directly and is not qualified by any preposition or word like Similitude etc...

    In each case it means "Hit"


    اضْرِبُوهُنَّ  "Hit them"

    (4.34)


    يَضْرِبُونَ وُجُوهَهُمْ وَأَدْبَارَهُمْ  "They hit their faces and their backs"

    (8.50)



    ضَرْبَ الرِّقَابِ  "Hit the necks" (chop their heads off)

    (47.4)



    اضْرِبُوهُ  "Hit it"

    (2.73)


    Now in the following verses the verb daraba doesn't mean Hit - at least not in a literal sense - but notice that it - and/or it's object - are qualified by a preposition and/or a word like Similitude in the Earth...


     ضَرَبَ اللَّهُ مَثَلًا  Allah strikes a parable

     (14:24)



    ضَرْبًا فِي الْأَرْضِ  "Striking in the Earth" (i.e to go forth in the land)

    (2:273)


    نَضْرِبُ عَنْكُمُ الذِّكْرَ    We strike away the reminder from you. (We turn it away)

    (43.5)



    If   اضْرِبُوهُنَّ   "Hit them" meant "Leave them alone/Go away from them" it would have to have a preposition like عن (From/Away)

    So it would have to be  واضربوا عنهن = And strike away from them

    If it meant "Strike up a similitude for them" it would have to have a preposition like  ل (to/for) and a qualifying word like "Parable" مثلا

    So it would have to be something like:   واضربوا لهن مثلا = And strike up for them a parable/similitude

    If it meant "and go forth" it would have to have a preposition like في and a qualifying word like "Earth" الارض

    So it would have to be something like:   واضربوا في الارض  = And go forth in the land

  • Re: To All Muslims Here: Does God Allow Hitting One's Wife?
     Reply #67 - March 21, 2010, 03:50 PM
    I'd be interested if others understood what I just explained above or not?
  • Re: To All Muslims Here: Does God Allow Hitting One's Wife?
     Reply #68 - March 21, 2010, 03:56 PM
    Thanks Hassan I did.

    In cases where Allah the superego of muhammed speaks he says hit and before a similitude, in other cases hit as in the physical force, the neuro connection sending a message to your hands and your hands performing the will of your mind.
  • Re: To All Muslims Here: Does God Allow Hitting One's Wife?
     Reply #69 - March 21, 2010, 04:29 PM
    Thanks, Hassan.

    Stuff like this has to be in the wiki (I slightly edited the text): http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/wiki/en/4:34

    I think you have explained this verse a few times in the past. You could really save your time if you wrote an article about it. That would be excellent. Wink
    German ex-Muslim forum — My YouTube — List of Ex-Muslims —
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  • Re: To All Muslims Here: Does God Allow Hitting One's Wife?
     Reply #70 - March 21, 2010, 04:32 PM
    Hassan, I think you have gone above and beyond what is required to establish what is patently obvious. For thos who wish to deny it and dream up other meanings for it, good luck to them.
  • Re: To All Muslims Here: Does God Allow Hitting One's Wife?
     Reply #71 - March 21, 2010, 04:33 PM
    Excellent, Aziz - thanks!  Afro
  • Re: To All Muslims Here: Does God Allow Hitting One's Wife?
     Reply #72 - March 21, 2010, 04:36 PM
    Quote from: Omaar Khayaam on March 21, 2010, 04:32 PM
    Hassan, I think you have gone above and beyond what is required to establish what is patently obvious. For thos who wish to deny it and dream up other meanings for it, good luck to them.


    Yes - I know you're right - but it really irritates me the way ppl continue to insist a circle is a square - I feel like banging their head against a wall! lol
  • Re: To All Muslims Here: Does God Allow Hitting One's Wife?
     Reply #73 - March 21, 2010, 04:39 PM
    Quote from: Hassan on March 21, 2010, 04:36 PM
    Yes - I know you're right - but it really irritates me the way ppl continue to insist a circle is a square - I feel like banging their head against a wall! lol


    Maybe doing that will start the right neurons firing.
  • Re: To All Muslims Here: Does God Allow Hitting One's Wife?
     Reply #74 - March 21, 2010, 04:42 PM
    Quote from: Hassan on March 21, 2010, 03:50 PM
    I'd be interested if others understood what I just explained above or not?

    Sure!
    I don't understand Arabic but I am sure you didn't lie about the grammar or the syntax.
    In fact this should be a sticky!
  • Re: To All Muslims Here: Does God Allow Hitting One's Wife?
     Reply #75 - March 21, 2010, 05:49 PM
    Quote from: Hassan on March 18, 2010, 08:11 PM
    Abdurahman Green 'ee say YES!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H7cYbCgRJgs


    OMFG I can't believe he is using government rules and laws as a comparison of why a man can smack his wife around if she doesn't behave in a way he approves of.

    I can't watch anymore of these videos.  Domestic abuse is not a topic I can look impartially on.
    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: To All Muslims Here: Does God Allow Hitting One's Wife?
     Reply #76 - March 21, 2010, 09:00 PM
    Well for fun I posted the stuff above on the Free-minds forum that is sort of the number one place for believing this verse doesn't say "Hit" - a sort of "We're in Denial-Central" if you like  (so ironic when their name is free-minds grin12)  It just goes to show ppl can make anything mean anything they want - and still believe it - incredible!

    http://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9600193.0
  • Re: To All Muslims Here: Does God Allow Hitting One's Wife?
     Reply #77 - March 21, 2010, 09:33 PM
    Hamza Yusuf did an excellent talk about Women in islam, covering issues such as 'beating/hitting' as well as other quranic ayahs which are often held up as examples of Islamic mysoginy (sp?).

    If anybody is genuinely interested in learning the traditional opinion - not the one propogated by salafi scholars - then i recommend that you listen to it. It can be downloaded here:

    http://www.ilookisee.co.uk/Hamza%20Yusuf%202.htm

    Entitled "Men and Women".

    And remember, Hamza Yusuf is a clasically trained Islamic Scholar who specialises in Malaki fiqh; nothing new-age about him. He studied under arguably the most respected present-day scholar (Bin Bayah) and has stacks of credibility in the Muslim world, even if some of the salafi types do dislike him. Indeed, whilst we're on the topic of HY, I would recommend that you all listen to "The Attributes of God in Islam" which is a 9-cd explanation of the nature of God in Islam: http://www.astrolabe.com/the-attributes-of-god-in-islam.html

    In addition, IslamOnline is often a good source for family related fiqh and explanations. Probably worth a look:

    http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?c=Article_C&pagename=Zone-English-Family/FYELayout&cid=1157307966142
    ...nor shall they encompass aught of His knowledge, except as He willeth...
  • Re: To All Muslims Here: Does God Allow Hitting One's Wife?
     Reply #78 - March 21, 2010, 09:40 PM
    So basically Hamza Yusuf tried his best to rationalise/deny the fact that the Quran instructs a man to beat his wife.
    .
  • Re: To All Muslims Here: Does God Allow Hitting One's Wife?
     Reply #79 - March 21, 2010, 09:40 PM
    Quote from: Hassan on March 21, 2010, 03:50 PM
    I'd be interested if others understood what I just explained above or not?

    Yeah, I understood that, Hassan. You explained it clearly enough that even with my limited knowledge of Arabic it made complete sense.

    I read the thread on free-minds.org, and those poor Muslims are desperately clinging to their humane translation of something that obviously bothers them severely. Until they are ready to admit the Qur'an is erroneous (thus proving Allah and Islam to be false), they will never even be ABLE to allow themselves to accept your explanations, no matter how clear, simple and logical. I actually kinda feel sorry for them.
    The only thing we have to fear is fear itself
    - 32nd United States President Franklin D. Roosevelt
  • Re: To All Muslims Here: Does God Allow Hitting One's Wife?
     Reply #80 - March 21, 2010, 09:41 PM
    Quote from: Hassan on March 21, 2010, 09:00 PM
    Well for fun I posted the stuff above on the Free-minds forum that is sort of the number one place for believing this verse doesn't say "Hit" - a sort of "We're in Denial-Central" if you like  (so ironic when their name is free-minds grin12)  It just goes to show ppl can make anything mean anything they want - and still believe it - incredible!

    Actually I think you made an impact. The lack of response is response in itself.

    Also this (by RasulHamsa):
    "Well said!

    from deep inside, we feel the same way, thats the main reason to rationalise that verse. Perhaps some day we'll be able to think independently and criticise quran where we feel its wrong. I also believe it is impossible to agree with quran on everything unless you are a blind follower.

    Peace."

    I have never ever seen a Muslim say anything like that before.
  • Re: To All Muslims Here: Does God Allow Hitting One's Wife?
     Reply #81 - March 21, 2010, 09:44 PM
    Quote
    from deep inside, we feel the same way, thats the main reason to rationalise that verse. Perhaps some day we'll be able to think independently and criticise quran where we feel its wrong. I also believe it is impossible to agree with quran on everything unless you are a blind follower.

    Peace."

    I have never ever seen a Muslim say anything like that before.


    That was from a Muslim?? Shocked What the hell... so there are actually parts of the Qur'an that those Muslims feel are wrong, and they talk about it nonchalantly like that? Wow.
    The only thing we have to fear is fear itself
    - 32nd United States President Franklin D. Roosevelt
  • Re: To All Muslims Here: Does God Allow Hitting One's Wife?
     Reply #82 - March 21, 2010, 09:44 PM
    Quote from: Hassan1 on March 21, 2010, 09:33 PM
    Hamza Yusuf did an excellent talk about Women in islam, covering issues such as 'beating/hitting' as well as other quranic ayahs which are often held up as examples of Islamic mysoginy (sp?).

    If anybody is genuinely interested in learning the traditional opinion - not the one propogated by salafi scholars - then i recommend that you listen to it. It can be downloaded here:

    http://www.ilookisee.co.uk/Hamza%20Yusuf%202.htm

    Entitled "Men and Women".

    And remember, Hamza Yusuf is a clasically trained Islamic Scholar who specialises in Malaki fiqh; nothing new-age about him. He studied under arguably the most respected present-day scholar (Bin Bayah) and has stacks of credibility in the Muslim world, even if some of the salafi types do dislike him. Indeed, whilst we're on the topic of HY, I would recommend that you all listen to "The Attributes of God in Islam" which is a 9-cd explanation of the nature of God in Islam: http://www.astrolabe.com/the-attributes-of-god-in-islam.html

    What makes you think that people here aren't familiar with Hamza Yusuf?

    Heck, he used to be one of my favourite scholars.
  • Re: To All Muslims Here: Does God Allow Hitting One's Wife?
     Reply #83 - March 21, 2010, 09:45 PM
    Quote from: Hassan1 on March 21, 2010, 09:33 PM
    Hamza Yusuf did an excellent talk about Women in islam, covering issues such as 'beating/hitting' as well as other quranic ayahs which are often held up as examples of Islamic mysoginy (sp?).

    If anybody is genuinely interested in learning the traditional opinion - not the one propogated by salafi scholars - then i recommend that you listen to it. It can be downloaded here:

    http://www.ilookisee.co.uk/Hamza%20Yusuf%202.htm

    Entitled "Men and Women".

    And remember, Hamza Yusuf is a clasically trained Islamic Scholar who specialises in Malaki fiqh; nothing new-age about him. He studied under arguably the most respected present-day scholar (Bin Bayah) and has stacks of credibility in the Muslim world, even if some of the salafi types do dislike him. Indeed, whilst we're on the topic of HY, I would recommend that you all listen to "The Attributes of God in Islam" which is a 9-cd explanation of the nature of God in Islam: http://www.astrolabe.com/the-attributes-of-god-in-islam.html

    In addition, IslamOnline is often a good source for family related fiqh and explanations. Probably worth a look:

    http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?c=Article_C&pagename=Zone-English-Family/FYELayout&cid=1157307966142



    Could you give me the gist of what he said this verse means, Hassan1, please - thanks.
  • Re: To All Muslims Here: Does God Allow Hitting One's Wife?
     Reply #84 - March 21, 2010, 09:48 PM
    Quote from: Kenan on March 21, 2010, 09:44 PM
    What makes you think that people here aren't familiar with Hamza Yusuf?

    Heck, he used to be one of my favourite scholars.



    I met him a few times - he's the darling of many modern Muslims, but frankly I hate it when people take 100 words to say what could be said in 10. When ppl beat around the bush and make things more complicated than they are I feel they are trying to cover something up.
  • Re: To All Muslims Here: Does God Allow Hitting One's Wife?
     Reply #85 - March 21, 2010, 11:45 PM
    I completely understood what you said Hassan even though I don't speak arabic.

    Whenever Muslims say that "beat" has many meanings in arabic, I say that yes, it also has different meanings in english too.

    BUT, when a word is used within a sentence which obviously has a context, then it always has ONE meaning.
    .
  • Re: To All Muslims Here: Does God Allow Hitting One's Wife?
     Reply #86 - March 21, 2010, 11:48 PM
    Its in context.  What the quran meant by that verse, was when a husband gets angry with his wife, hold your hand up, take her hand and then dance to the "beat" with her.  Duh.
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  • Re: To All Muslims Here: Does God Allow Hitting One's Wife?
     Reply #87 - March 21, 2010, 11:52 PM
    Lol!  Cheesy

    Or it could mean "beat" as in what you do to egg-whites.  So if you fear disobedience from your wife, then stick her in a big bowl, take a wooden spoon or electric blender and "beat" her.
    .
  • Re: To All Muslims Here: Does God Allow Hitting One's Wife?
     Reply #88 - March 22, 2010, 03:23 AM
    Grin

    Or maybe it means you should "beat" her off. This is reference to having a transexual wife, ie a chick with a dick. You see? Islam actually totally embraced LGBT stuff. We've just been interpreting it wrong.

    Daraba time, bitch. handjob
    Quote from: thinkfree on September 28, 2010, 07:58 PM
    Iblis has mad debaterin' skillz. Best not step up unless you're prepared to recieve da pain.

  • Re: To All Muslims Here: Does God Allow Hitting One's Wife?
     Reply #89 - March 22, 2010, 08:35 AM
     Cheesy

    beat that meat with your feet

    my interpretation includes foot fetish
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