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Theme Changer

 Poll

  • Question: Given the uses of Psychotherapy (which is sometimes subjective) and it's benefits, do you believe Psychology can be called a real Science?
  • Yes, because Science is a tool for understanding what is real, what works, and what can be tested - 11 (55%)
  • No, because Science is a tool for understanding what is real, what works, and what can be tested - 5 (25%)
  • I'm 50-50 - 4 (20%)
  • Total Voters: 20

 Topic: Do you believe Psychology can be referred to as a real Science?

 (Read 5814 times)
  • 12 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Do you believe Psychology can be referred to as a real Science?
     OP - March 24, 2010, 06:05 PM
    Hello CEMB (good to be back for a bit)!

    As most of you who know me, probably know that I'm a Psychology major; and I'm pursuing a graduate degree. Psychology, the study of the human mind, is both very fascinating and intriguing to me. It intrigues me because I find the human mind, and the capacity of potential of a human being very interesting. This is the reason why my emphasis is on Psychotherapy.

    Now, while I was gone, I've spoken to few science majors about the topic of weather Psychology is a real Science or not--ranging from Biology majors, Engineers, Neurology majors, and lastly Psychology majors. I've gotten a plethora of difference in opinions.

    One one hand, interestingly enough, most of the Biology majors, and the Engineers, viewed Science as a "thing"-- in other words, Science, is either is, or it is not. On the other hand, the Neurology majors and the Psych. majors, viewed Science as a tool-- either it can be applied to some degree, or it cannot.

    Now, the reason why I pop this poll, is because I am very well aware, that in Psychotherapy especially, a lot of the techniques used to change the attitude of a patient from destructive, to constructive, is not based on empirical research--thus why Psychology is a lot of times misunderstood as being subjective completely and lacking any objectivity in it's theories. But I'd argue that it's a mistake to categorize Psychology with Sciences like Biology and Engineering; simply because the human mind is very subjective. We cannot apply any materialistic train of thought (as it is proper when studying biology and Engineering, and even Neurology) when concerned with human behavior.

    One tool alone in Psychotherapy probably wont help change someone's anxiety, phobias, depression etc.--a combination of other techniques gets that job done usually. Thus why a single tool in Psychotherapy will fail empirical studies, because there is no "one size fits all" when it comes to the dynamics of the Human mind. However, I strongly believe that a combination of different Psychotherapy techniques, can result in empirical data--but unfortunately, such studies are hardly being conducted. This is why, most Psychologists will agree that the state of Psychology today "is not good enough" in the sense that we haven't truly tapped into the potential of what Psychology has to offer.

    That is my defense for Psychology. But I want to know what you think. Given what you believe the definition of Science is, and the having read my defense, do you believe Psychology can be considered a real science?

    Hope to hear many replies.  Smiley
    Call me TAP TAP! for I am THE ASS PATTER!
  • Re: Do you believe Psychology can be referred to as a real Science?
     Reply #1 - March 24, 2010, 06:29 PM
    I don't have much of an opinion on this - but just wanted to say "Hi Tommy!"  Afro
  • Re: Do you believe Psychology can be referred to as a real Science?
     Reply #2 - March 24, 2010, 06:32 PM
    LOL nice to see you too friend! Been a while since we spoke.
    Call me TAP TAP! for I am THE ASS PATTER!
  • Re: Do you believe Psychology can be referred to as a real Science?
     Reply #3 - March 24, 2010, 06:36 PM
    Quote from: Tommy on March 24, 2010, 06:32 PM
    LOL nice to see you too friend! Been a while since we spoke.


    Yes, it has. I hope you've been keeping well - great to see you again, my friend Smiley
  • Re: Do you believe Psychology can be referred to as a real Science?
     Reply #4 - March 24, 2010, 06:38 PM
    Likewise. Are you still making videos, or are you into other things these days? I was in your channel the other day, re-watching your videos. I showed em off to a Muslim friend of mine, and she was quite impressed with your arguments.  Afro
    Call me TAP TAP! for I am THE ASS PATTER!
  • Re: Do you believe Psychology can be referred to as a real Science?
     Reply #5 - March 24, 2010, 06:44 PM
    What Hssan said, except i do have an opinion as well my cousin told me that a lot of psychology is taught in conjuction with neuroscience. I gather that neuroscience may soon supersede psychology but I'm not sure, I do agree that psychology does have it's uses as well as sociology to a certain extent. I'm not sure, I do think they still serve a purpose but as far as science is conerned, as you mentioned, one needs empirical data to verify theories and create a widely acceptable explanation of behaviours and other things. Right now it's not a real science.
    "The ideal tyranny is that which is ignorantly self-administered by its victims. The most perfect slaves are, therefore, those which blissfully and unawaredly enslave themselves."
  • Re: Do you believe Psychology can be referred to as a real Science?
     Reply #6 - March 24, 2010, 06:48 PM
    Yes in order for it to be considered a real Science, theories do need to have empirical data--the research is not really being conducted unfortunately. But I do not see how Neurology will one day supersede Psychology--they are somewhat two different fields, and yet related to some degree (like Biology and Chemistry). The two fields have two different agendas.
    Call me TAP TAP! for I am THE ASS PATTER!
  • Re: Do you believe Psychology can be referred to as a real Science?
     Reply #7 - March 24, 2010, 07:01 PM
    Ye perhaps. Not sure man. As with a lot of things lol. You're right they do both have 2 dofferent agendas but I feel with emerging medical technology, neuroscience may be able to provide us with some explanations as to what parts of the brain we use which influence our behaviours, then psychology and sociology can fill in how we go about treating mental illnesses and preventing them. I don't know much about the subject though tbh.
    "The ideal tyranny is that which is ignorantly self-administered by its victims. The most perfect slaves are, therefore, those which blissfully and unawaredly enslave themselves."
  • Re: Do you believe Psychology can be referred to as a real Science?
     Reply #8 - March 24, 2010, 07:08 PM
    Well you're right about the roles of Neurology and Psychology. The role of Psychologist, is to understand the patient's problem (chronic anxiety, depression, bipolarity, etc.), and learn where the problem comes from, and how it is triggered. After learning all of this, the Psychologist will determine to fix the patient's problem, does he/she need to undergo Psychotherapy, or be referred to a Psychiatrist who can prescribe medications (although more Psychologists today have that power). The job of a Neurologist is to do brain scans, and see exactly what chemical reactions are taking place within the brain when something like chronic anxiety is triggered, and the severity of it all. A Neurologist's job is to study the biology of the brain if you will, and the Psychologist's job is to study human behavior and how it can be fixed (without the need for drugs preferably).
    Call me TAP TAP! for I am THE ASS PATTER!
  • Re: Do you believe Psychology can be referred to as a real Science?
     Reply #9 - March 24, 2010, 08:53 PM
    Quote from: Tommy on March 24, 2010, 06:38 PM
    Likewise. Are you still making videos, or are you into other things these days? I was in your channel the other day, re-watching your videos. I showed em off to a Muslim friend of mine, and she was quite impressed with your arguments.  Afro


    I haven't made a vid for a while, mate - been distracted by personal problems  Cry
  • Re: Do you believe Psychology can be referred to as a real Science?
     Reply #10 - March 24, 2010, 09:08 PM
    Quote from: Hassan on March 24, 2010, 08:53 PM
    I haven't made a vid for a while, mate - been distracted by personal problems  Cry


    Story of a lot of our lives brother. I hope everything settles on your end to your favor. Best of luck to you!

    Keep your chin up.  Smiley Always remember, there are no regrets; just life lessons.
    Call me TAP TAP! for I am THE ASS PATTER!
  • Re: Do you believe Psychology can be referred to as a real Science?
     Reply #11 - March 24, 2010, 09:10 PM
    Quote from: Tommy on March 24, 2010, 09:08 PM
    Story of a lot of our lives brother. I hope everything settles on your end to your favor. Best of luck to you!

    Keep your chin up.  Smiley Always remember, there are no regrets; just life lessons.


    Thanks Tommy - u too my friend  far away hug
  • Re: Do you believe Psychology can be referred to as a real Science?
     Reply #12 - March 25, 2010, 01:07 AM

    In my opinion mental illnesses are to rigidly defined.  And as so many illnesses overlap each other it is very difficult to differentiate between them. Whats more the practitioner often holds a bias based on his own personal experiences/assumptions and lack of thorough investigation which often leads to a misdiagnosis.

    While this can be said for any scientific theory there is too much scope for malpractice which can have a negative impact on peoples lives.  This is very different to medicine where the body reacts the same regardless of enviromental influences.

    For these reasons I do not believe psychology has developed into a science and is still in its infancy. They do not even meet their own definition of diagnosing patients with a mental illness that is meant to be abnormal to the society they live in as the premise they use to judge this is based on wishful thinking rather then any real form of reality.

  • Re: Do you believe Psychology can be referred to as a real Science?
     Reply #13 - March 25, 2010, 01:17 AM
    Hmm. I agree with you to a point, in that current psychology is far from perfect. I'm not sure it is quite as bad as you seem to think though. But yes, I agree it is effectively still in its infancy and has a long way to go.

    By the way this is not quite true:

    Quote
    While this can be said for any scientific theory there is too much scope for malpractice which can have a negative impact on peoples lives.  This is very different to medicine where the body reacts the same regardless of enviromental influences.

    While it is true in a lot of cases there are exceptions and they are more common than you might think. Biology is complex and unusual genetic factors can lead to unexpected results at times, plus the relationship between the patient and the environment is not clear cut. A classic example is the placebo effect. It is not an environmental factor as such. I'm just using it as an off-the-cuff example. The point being that health and reactions can sometimes be changed by expectations even in the absence of any actual medical intervention. Environmental factors tie into this. If a patient is feeling unhappy with their environment they are less likely to recover quickly.
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Do you believe Psychology can be referred to as a real Science?
     Reply #14 - March 25, 2010, 01:35 AM
    yeah I was worried about putting that in.. As medicine also has a long way to go.

     on the whole medicine is more measurable in terms of diagnosing the common illnesses often found in society. Such as cancer, or aids.

    Whereas a person could have acute stress which leads to ptsd and the doctor could quite easily diagnose patient with mania or a personality disorder if he doesn't believe the cause of stress or  his own bias thinks patient is over reacting.   Whats more is that a test can confirm specific cancer cells or a virul infection whereas we cannot say the same for the majority of mental illnesses.
  • Re: Do you believe Psychology can be referred to as a real Science?
     Reply #15 - March 25, 2010, 02:06 AM
    True. I've heard a lot about mental illness being misdiagnosed, some of it from people who work in the field. 
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Do you believe Psychology can be referred to as a real Science?
     Reply #16 - March 25, 2010, 02:06 AM
    I agree with both of you regarding that Psychology is still in it's infancy--no doubt about that one! From what I gather from your post Mujahid, I think you may be referring to Psychology as being merely subjective and there is no way to test/measure for anything (something which would then grant it the title of being an actual Science), and that simply isn't true (if I'm wrong about the gist of your post, please correct me). Taking your example of a patient suffering from PTSD, and the Psychologist diagnosing him with Mania; there are couple of factors to actually look at here:

    1) The accuracy of the diagnosis is based on how open, and truthful the patient is with doctor. This is true for even medical doctors. I can go in for a weird skin rash knowing full well that it's eczema, but I can keep that bit of information from my doctor. The doctor then will very likely just prescribe me an ointment diagnosing me with just a normal dermatitis.

    2) There exists specific symptoms between PTSD and Mania which distinguishes one from the other. Telling these two apart is left up to how well the Psychologist is trained--just as telling Eczema apart from regular dermatitis is left up to how skilled the doctor is.

    Both Mania and PTSD have common symptoms, but there are few differences.

    You're right though that mental illnesses are rigidly defined, and it is also one of the reasons as to why Psychology needs to be reformed into a better Science than it already is.

    Btw, Psychology isn't all about diagnosing mental illnesses. A branch of it--Positive Psychology--deals with bettering the lives of people.
    Call me TAP TAP! for I am THE ASS PATTER!
  • Re: Do you believe Psychology can be referred to as a real Science?
     Reply #17 - March 25, 2010, 02:56 AM
    I think most objections to psychology being considered a scientific discipline stem from many of the ways it's been institutionalized over the decades. Unfortunately, as a result, criticism of psychology tends to be nescient and prejudiced dismissal (psychotherapy in particular).
    "...every imperfection in man is a bond with heaven..." - Karl Marx
  • Re: Do you believe Psychology can be referred to as a real Science?
     Reply #18 - March 25, 2010, 03:12 AM
    I agree - where do you think such nescience comes from?
    Call me TAP TAP! for I am THE ASS PATTER!
  • Re: Do you believe Psychology can be referred to as a real Science?
     Reply #19 - March 25, 2010, 03:15 AM
    Also under the same regard, I'd say that the study of Non-verbal communications in Psychology has been undermined as well by the same factor of nescience.
    Call me TAP TAP! for I am THE ASS PATTER!
  • Re: Do you believe Psychology can be referred to as a real Science?
     Reply #20 - March 25, 2010, 03:26 AM
    Those are actually pretty cool poll options, but I wussed out and chose option 3.
    fuck you
  • Re: Do you believe Psychology can be referred to as a real Science?
     Reply #21 - March 25, 2010, 03:30 AM
    Whats your opinion on this issue?
    Call me TAP TAP! for I am THE ASS PATTER!
  • Re: Do you believe Psychology can be referred to as a real Science?
     Reply #22 - March 25, 2010, 03:31 AM
    Too tired to give it now. Will respond when I'm more awake and had some time to consider it. I've thought about this, not intently, but from time to time, and I haven't reached a conclusion yet.
    fuck you
  • Re: Do you believe Psychology can be referred to as a real Science?
     Reply #23 - March 25, 2010, 03:32 AM
    Quote from: Tommy on March 25, 2010, 03:30 AM
    Whats your opinion on this issue?


    Personally I think we're discounting the role Mossad played in the attacks.

    Just my 2c.




    PS: Psychology is an invention of jewish communist homosexuals much like 9/11.
    Quote from: thinkfree on September 28, 2010, 07:58 PM
    Iblis has mad debaterin' skillz. Best not step up unless you're prepared to recieve da pain.

  • Re: Do you believe Psychology can be referred to as a real Science?
     Reply #24 - March 25, 2010, 03:33 AM
     Cheesy
    Call me TAP TAP! for I am THE ASS PATTER!
  • Re: Do you believe Psychology can be referred to as a real Science?
     Reply #25 - March 25, 2010, 03:36 AM
    I wanna pop this question at a Scientology forum - I'm sure to get a lot of votes for the second option.
    Call me TAP TAP! for I am THE ASS PATTER!
  • Re: Do you believe Psychology can be referred to as a real Science?
     Reply #26 - March 25, 2010, 03:47 AM
    Quote from: Tommy on March 25, 2010, 03:12 AM
    I agree - where do you think such nescience comes from?


    As I alluded, its (mis)uses - medicalizing political dissent, homosexuality, single mothers, institutional violence etc. - types of things which occur a lot less now. Yet there is a sense of some social problems being falsely medicalized. But that probably has as much to do with misconceptions/out-dated views as reductionism within the field itself.
    "...every imperfection in man is a bond with heaven..." - Karl Marx
  • Re: Do you believe Psychology can be referred to as a real Science?
     Reply #27 - March 25, 2010, 03:51 AM
    Fair enough.
    Call me TAP TAP! for I am THE ASS PATTER!
  • Re: Do you believe Psychology can be referred to as a real Science?
     Reply #28 - March 25, 2010, 10:28 AM
    Despite that psychology also has to make subjective / non-empirical conclusions sometimes, it nevertheless tries to understand and explain real observable phenomena rationally, respecting the scientific method (as far as this is possible), which is the main purpose and definition of a natural science. So generally, I would refer to psychology as real science.
  • Re: Do you believe Psychology can be referred to as a real Science?
     Reply #29 - March 25, 2010, 10:46 AM
    Yeah but if you can't fuck around with test tubes and blow things up it's not real science. cool2
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
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