Do You Want To Destroy Islam?

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- BerberElla
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Re: Do You Want To Destroy Islam?
Reply #30 - April 01, 2010, 12:30 PM

I voted 3, for realism's sake, but in truth 2 is closer to my idealist heart.

I loathe religion now. I dream about some kind of utopian future in which religion is merely fascinating myth like Zeus, Isis and all the rest. In which humanism is the new religion of the masses lol but since I know it's just a dream, I picked 3.

Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
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Re: Do You Want To Destroy Islam?
Reply #31 - April 01, 2010, 12:33 PM

Quote from: BerberElla on April 01, 2010, 12:30 PM
I voted 3, for realism's sake.

I think that the poll should make it clear what it means by destroying Islam.

Islam is a funny religion which is misunderstood by its scholars and correctly understood by ordinary Muslims.
Faith is keeping your eyes shut when looking at the world, and/or keeping your eyes open only for the beauty of the world.
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Re: Do You Want To Destroy Islam?
Reply #32 - April 01, 2010, 12:36 PM

I would have thought, destroyed as in the quran becomes just another mein kampf, hate book to study?

Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
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Re: Do You Want To Destroy Islam?
Reply #33 - April 01, 2010, 01:04 PM

Quote from: BerberElla on April 01, 2010, 12:36 PM
I would have thought, destroyed as in the quran becomes just another mein kampf, hate book to study?

I would very much like to see the Qur'an become an obsolete curiosity that sat in a museum somewhere, but I have no problem living with Islam/Muslims around me - so long as they are peaceful.

I am against certain aspects/beliefs/interpretations and will continue to stand actively and publicly against them. (I do a hell of a lot more than some that come here from another forum and just go blah blah blah... ) But I have no problem with peaceful interpretations.

What I meant by destroy is to destroy in a very proactive way - a war on Islam - a mission to eradicate Islam - and that means Muslims too. A militant effort to stamp it out and to do whatever it takes to do that be it through the pen or the sword if need be.
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Re: Do You Want To Destroy Islam?
Reply #34 - April 01, 2010, 01:07 PM

Quote from: charlesmartel on April 01, 2010, 12:16 PM
Great rebuttal indeed!!

Yeah - it was, wasn't it
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Re: Do You Want To Destroy Islam?
Reply #35 - April 01, 2010, 01:11 PM

Quote from: Hassan on April 01, 2010, 01:04 PM
I would very much like to see the Qur'an become an obsolete curiosity that sat in a museum somewhere, but I have no problem living with Islam/Muslims around me - so long as they are peaceful.

I am against certain aspects/beliefs/interpretations and will continue to stand openly and publicly against them. (I do a hell of a lot more than some that come here from another forum who think that saying blah blah blah... on the internet will change much ) But I have no problem with peaceful interpretations.

What I meant by destroy is to destroy in a very proactive way - a war on Islam - a mission to eradicate Islam - and that means Muslims too. A militant effort to stamp it out and to do whatever it takes to do that be it through the pen or the sword in need be.

I'm into the pen method to destroy religions, infact everytime someone criticizes islam in article, video, post, whichever medium they choose to, they are infact part of the pen method that is causing apostates to grow, or causes moderates to grow either.

My only beef is that islam, and christianity actually still have the potential to cause alot of damage. Until they become myths, people from both sides will continue to do insane things in the name of religion, be it flying planes into buildings or attacking abortion doctors/clinics, or refusing simply basic human rights.

People with a militant bent to their nature will continue to be born, and as religionists they will continue to use the worst interpretations from these religions.

Far better, if these religions became as obsolete as the religions that came before. No one is bombing in the name of zeus, or killing doctors in the name of hera, because of how obsolete these religions have become.

Until the abrahamic religions become that defunct, they will always be problematic.

Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
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Re: Do You Want To Destroy Islam?
Reply #36 - April 01, 2010, 01:24 PM

Quote from: Hassan
(I do a hell of a lot more than some that come here from another forum who think that saying blah blah blah... on the internet will change much ) .

You became ex muslim because of listening to arguments over internet I suppose. Internet is the major cause of downfall of islam today firstly because you can reach larger audience and you can also criticize islam freely by being anonymous so saying things internet cannot create an impact is a joke because you yourself and many others became exmuslims by listening to arguments over internet.I will reply to the rest later . I know you dont care but its for others to see and realize whether you really make valid points or not.You may ignore my post if you want.
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Re: Do You Want To Destroy Islam?
Reply #37 - April 01, 2010, 01:28 PM

Quote from: BerberElla on April 01, 2010, 01:11 PM
I'm into the pen method to destroy religions...

Indeed I am too - though I'm not so bothered about destroying religion - it simply will never happen - but I will continue to express my criticisms of religion.

I certainly have no problem living with the vast majority of Muslims, Christians, Hindus, Jews etc...
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Re: Do You Want To Destroy Islam?
Reply #38 - April 01, 2010, 01:30 PM

Quote from: skynightblaze on April 01, 2010, 01:24 PM
You became ex muslim because of listening to arguments over internet I suppose. Internet is the major cause of downfall of islam today firstly because you can reach larger audience and you can also criticize islam freely by being anonymous so saying things internet cannot create an impact is a joke because you yourself and many others became exmuslims by listening to arguments over internet.I will reply to the rest later . I know you dont care but its for others to see and realize whether you really make valid points or not.You may ignore my post if you want.

Dear SnB - Please consider the video I posted for you previously as my response to all the crap that comes out your mouth.
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Re: Do You Want To Destroy Islam?
Reply #39 - April 01, 2010, 01:37 PM

Most people obviously voted number three, as did I. That's good because it shows respect for human rights, even when it's respecting something that does not respect human rights. But what the real question is, is whether Muslims would accept number three and throw the unacceptable parts out and join us in the 21st century. And my guess is that the answer is no. And if that is the case, then my answer would be or perhaps should be number one. And don't be surprised if it eventually comes down to that. Never underestimate the powerful brainwashing of Islamic society and Islam itself, and it's inherently and historically uncompromising nature.

Sorry guys, but we're all screwed because of Muhammad. As is said, God gives the devil his due
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Re: Do You Want To Destroy Islam?
Reply #40 - April 01, 2010, 01:42 PM

Quote from: Iblis on March 31, 2010, 07:33 PM
Religion will never be destroyed. Period. Anyone trying to do such a thing is either full of hate or very deluded. The best we can hope for is that relgion becomes socially/politically irrelevant and purely a personal matter.

Iblis put it perfectly above - that is my position and is a realistic goal.
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Re: Do You Want To Destroy Islam?
Reply #41 - April 01, 2010, 01:44 PM

I've heard Christopher Hitchens repeatedly say that he wouldn't want to see religion disappear from the planet. I second that notion. There is a lot that I really love about religion. I believe that religion exists because we need 'religion', or we need something like it. Thus destroying religion makes no sense to me, from an anthropological perspective.
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Re: Do You Want To Destroy Islam?
Reply #42 - April 01, 2010, 01:46 PM

Religion will always be part of our societies in some shape or form. I don't have anything against religion per se. What I want to see happen, and what we can achieve is the de-fanging and castration of religion from the public sphere. Where religion becomes private, that doesn't seek to influence the lives of adherents and non adherents in ways that conflict with their individual human rights, and that does not contest the secular liberal democratic culture we exist in. For various reasons, in the UK, and elsewhere, Islam has a lot of dentistry that needs performing on it in order for it to be properly de-fanged.

When Islam is de-fanged it means it becomes a peaceful, private affair - like Hare Krishna or something like that.

Sadly, many Muslims will view this as an act of war, because they believe that Islam is an expansive religion that makes claims on the temporal life, on society, as an organising principle, on the life and behaviour of women, and that it is the duty of Muslims to facilitate this through dawah. They are the ones who have to be (metaphorically) castrated in order for that religion to submit to the precepts of liberal secular egalitarian democracy. It may sound direct, but it is quite literally true in the context of British society - Islam has to learn its place. Its place is without special priveliges, equal to the kuffars, and as just one of many aspects of British life - not a defining one, not an ideology that can boss the terms of what our society is, as many Islamists and dawah-gandists are apt to do.

This can be achieved by the pen, by practise, by observation, by legislation. It can be done by the concentrated efforts of liberal Muslims, non Muslims and ex Muslims. If resentful, sulking Muslims resent the indignity of being equal with everyone else, nothing special, then time will grind them down. If it adds to their 'alienation', which feeds into the victimhood grievance culture of extremism, well then liberal secular democracy has a very able police force and intelligence agency to deal with these individuals.

So, religion, as a set of private rituals is great. I am actually quite attracted emotionally and intellectually to the colour and iconography and gestures of ritual of various religions. I am an agnostic, not a militant atheist (whatever that means). But I do think that the de-fanging and castrating of the most rabid dogs of religion is a just, vital and righteous and important cause for the continued health of our society.

"we can smell traitors and country haters"

Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
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Re: Do You Want To Destroy Islam?
Reply #43 - April 01, 2010, 01:53 PM

But Billy, Islam is written differently than other religions. While all religions have shown fangs in the past, in Islam, these fangs are actually and specifically hard coded into the religion, as opposed to Christianity. There simply is no room nor flexibility for reinterpretation or reformation in Islam. It would have to be entirely reinvented, and this is the part that kind of alarms me. I don't see anything but an eventual, inevitable clash.
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Re: Do You Want To Destroy Islam?
Reply #44 - April 01, 2010, 01:58 PM

My analogy for religions is sheet music. There is some room for adding interpretation to sheet music - change the expression here, speed up there, emphasise that.

But you are always confined by what is written on the page - and whereas your interpretation of the sheet music is transitory, the sheet music goes on...
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Re: Do You Want To Destroy Islam?
Reply #45 - April 01, 2010, 02:00 PM

I could see where Christianity and Judaism could be treated like sheet Music, but I can't see how that can be done with Islam. Seems way too specific in it's edicts.
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Re: Do You Want To Destroy Islam?
Reply #46 - April 01, 2010, 02:00 PM

The clash will take place by speech, by the pen, by legislation, by social services, by the prevailing of liberal secular democracy over the dawah-gandists. For every other clash, there is the police force, and the highly specialised divisions of the intelligence agencies.

"we can smell traitors and country haters"

Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
God is Love.
Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.
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Re: Do You Want To Destroy Islam?
Reply #47 - April 01, 2010, 02:03 PM

Hopefully Billy, hopefully. But right now, in Britain, I see the police siding with the Muslims. They let a whole bunch of Muslim thugs temporarily enter Britain and gather for heated protests and to show power, but when non Muslim Brits protest, the Police shut them down and disperse them. I see politicians siding with Muslims over non Muslims. It seems crazy but British politicians are doing it right before everybody's eyes. Strange but true. And you should hear Muslims actually laugh and boast about this. I understand your kind of thinking, but it simply has not been working. Ultimately, it will amount to wishful thinking. Excessive intellectualism is the beginning of the end for any society
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Re: Do You Want To Destroy Islam?
Reply #48 - April 01, 2010, 02:08 PM

Thanks for not wanting to destroy our religion everyone. I think Muslims, Christians and Jews everywhere can all breathe a sigh of relief.

''we are morally and philisophically in the best position to win the league'' - Arsene Wenger
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Re: Do You Want To Destroy Islam?
Reply #49 - April 01, 2010, 02:10 PM

Quote from: Muhammad bin Lyin on April 01, 2010, 02:00 PM
I could see where Christianity and Judaism could be treated like sheet Music, but I can't see how that can be done with Islam. Seems way too specific in it's edicts.

Welcome MBl here.
Quote from: Hassan on April 01, 2010, 01:30 PM
Dear SnB - Please consider the video I posted for you previously as my response to all the crap that comes out your mouth.

Dear Hassan,
Your inability to debate can be clearly seen.A wise person would have avoided replying but instead you chose to reply by trolling here to my response(posting a video which has no connection). It seems that you dont even understand that when you have got no point you should be leaving the place .

I suppose everyone isnt stupid to believe you. Sensible people can easily see what crap you speak. As long as I am here you can never relax .Till date when I and some FFI members werent active plenty of members here werent exposed to the other side of arguments .Now FFI members like Muhhamad Binlyin ,Charles and myself are here . Just see how we tear your arguments.
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Re: Do You Want To Destroy Islam?
Reply #50 - April 01, 2010, 02:10 PM

Abuyaunas,

The high vote for #3 is under the assumption that Muslims will compromise some things of their beliefs, which will never happen. And once people realize this will never happen, their attitude might change.
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Re: Do You Want To Destroy Islam?
Reply #51 - April 01, 2010, 02:11 PM

Don't be so sarcastic abuyunus. All you need is another one of your pious fellow musulmans detonating a nuke in an western city to fulfill his Islamic(TM) obligation of Jihad(C). And then the world might just *have* to wipe Islam out.

Quote from: thinkfree on September 28, 2010, 07:58 PM
Iblis has mad debaterin' skillz. Best not step up unless you're prepared to recieve da pain.
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Re: Do You Want To Destroy Islam?
Reply #52 - April 01, 2010, 02:11 PM

Quote
Ultimately, it will amount to wishful thinking. Excessive intellectualism is the beginning of the end for any society

Yeah, its the end of times because of intellectualism.

"we can smell traitors and country haters"

Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
God is Love.
Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.
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Re: Do You Want To Destroy Islam?
Reply #53 - April 01, 2010, 02:11 PM

Quote from: skynightblaze on April 01, 2010, 02:10 PM
Welcome MBl here.
Dear Hassan,
Your inability to debate can be clearly seen.A wise person would have avoided replying but instead you chose to reply by trolling here to my response(posting a video which has no connection). It seems that you dont even understand that when you have got no point you should be leaving the place .

I suppose everyone isnt stupid to believe you. Sensible people can easily see what crap you speak. As long as I am here you can never relax .Till date when I and some FFI members werent active plenty of members here werent exposed to the other side of arguments .Now FFI members like Muhhamad Binlyin ,Charles and myself are here . Just see how you tear your arguments.

Got tired of the AbdulRahman account?

I don't know if you realize SNB, but nobody actually reads your posts. Your just a FFI clown, maybe worth a blowjob, that's about it.

Quote from: thinkfree on September 28, 2010, 07:58 PM
Iblis has mad debaterin' skillz. Best not step up unless you're prepared to recieve da pain.
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Re: Do You Want To Destroy Islam?
Reply #54 - April 01, 2010, 02:12 PM

Quote from: abuyunus2 on April 01, 2010, 02:08 PM
Thanks for not wanting to destroy our religion everyone. I think Muslims, Christians and Jews everywhere can all breathe a sigh of relief.

abuyunus, your sarcasm is funny, but not for the reasons you think it is. Its funny because as a practising Muslim, you should know that Islam enjoins its followers to carry out dawah and ultimately prevail and 'destroy' all other religions and belief systems.

"we can smell traitors and country haters"

Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
God is Love.
Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.
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Re: Do You Want To Destroy Islam?
Reply #55 - April 01, 2010, 02:14 PM

Quote from: Iblis
Got tired of the AbdulRahman account?

Why dont you ask your mods whether I and he are same accounts or not. Btw AbdulRahman is also a poster at FFI.YOu can check his posts at FFI.
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Re: Do You Want To Destroy Islam?
Reply #56 - April 01, 2010, 02:14 PM

Quote from: billy on April 01, 2010, 02:11 PM
Yeah, its the end of times because of intellectualism.

No, i just meant that excessive intellectualism often prevents people from doing the things they need to do, and history shows this. Comfort breeds intellectualism and complexity until one becomes unwilling to do what is necessary, and so, eventually the society goes down and gets replaced.
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Re: Do You Want To Destroy Islam?
Reply #57 - April 01, 2010, 02:14 PM

Quote from: skynightblaze on April 01, 2010, 02:14 PM
Why dont you ask your mods whether I and he are same accounts or not. Btw AbdulRahman is also a poster at FFI.YOu can check his posts at FFI.

Yes, they are not the same.
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Re: Do You Want To Destroy Islam?
Reply #58 - April 01, 2010, 02:15 PM

Quote from: Iblis
I don't know if you realize SNB, but nobody actually reads your posts. Your just a FFI clown, maybe worth a blowjob, that's about it.

I said my posts are not for you . Its for silent readers. A sensible person can easily see who is right and who is talking crap.
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Re: Do You Want To Destroy Islam?
Reply #59 - April 01, 2010, 02:17 PM

Yeah, the silent SNB-supporting masses. Of course.

Go back to FFI and blow Ali Sina. What a fucking joker.

Quote from: thinkfree on September 28, 2010, 07:58 PM
Iblis has mad debaterin' skillz. Best not step up unless you're prepared to recieve da pain.
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