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 Topic: Muslims will go to Hell?

 (Read 4982 times)
  • 12 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Muslims will go to Hell?
     OP - April 05, 2010, 10:54 AM
    Well according to this verse even if you are a Muslim but run from battle you will go to Hell.

    Now I'm not defending those who run away from a battle - but FFS, 'Eternal Torture'?

    It's clear that Muhammad is just using the fear factor Hell provides to get the believers to do what he wants.

    O ye who believe! When ye meet those who disbelieve in battle, turn not your backs to them. Whoso on that day turneth his back to them, unless manoeuvring for battle or intent to join a company, he truly hath incurred wrath from Allah, and his habitation will be hell, a hapless journey's end. (8.15-16)
  • Re: Muslims will go to Hell?
     Reply #1 - April 05, 2010, 11:05 AM
    Quote from: Hassan on April 05, 2010, 10:54 AM
    Well according to this verse even if you are a Muslim but run from battle you will go to Hell.

    Now I'm not defending those who run away from a battle - but FFS, 'Eternal Torture'?

    It's clear that Muhammad is just using the fear factor Hell provides to get the believers to do what he wants.

    O ye who believe! When ye meet those who disbelieve in battle, turn not your backs to them. Whoso on that day turneth his back to them, unless manoeuvring for battle or intent to join a company, he truly hath incurred wrath from Allah, and his habitation will be hell, a hapless journey's end. (8.15-16)


    From what I understand, even if you're a Muslim and do everything required - it is no guarantee that you're going to end up in heaven which kinda comes back to the question why be a Muslim in the first place? I remember hearing that piece of information and thought, "that can't be right, why would people convert unless they're guaranteed heaven" and a bit of search, he was right - Muslims aren't guaranteed heaven.

    Hassan, how many Muslims actually know they aren't guaranteed heaven, even if they do everything correct?
    "It's just a job. Grass grows, birds fly, waves pound the sand. I beat people up." - Muhammad Ali
  • Re: Muslims will go to Hell?
     Reply #2 - April 05, 2010, 11:23 AM
    Yes you're right there is no guarantee of Heaven - I think most Muslims know that.

    It was just the blatant manipulation of this verse - "Go and fight or you'll go to hell!"
  • Re: Muslims will go to Hell?
     Reply #3 - April 05, 2010, 11:24 AM
    I have heard many different theories about heaven/hell from different Muslims.

    Basically, some Muslims seem to think that being Muslim guarantees you will end up in heaven BUT that does not exclude that you will be sent to hell first, for a limited amount of time according to your sins. While non-Muslims are not guaranteed that they will end up in heaven.

    Some other Muslims seem to think that being Muslim just gives you the possibility of ending up in heaven, while being non-Muslim means you will surely end up in hell.

    And there are many variations about that, based on what happens to little kids, and to those who never heard of Islam, and to the "people of the book" vs all other non-Muslims, etcetera.
    Do not look directly at the operational end of the device.
  • Re: Muslims will go to Hell?
     Reply #4 - April 06, 2010, 04:49 AM
    One thing which sucks about being Muslim is that if you make a Dua begging for forgiveness, as long as you are alive, you don't know if your dua is accepted or not. So you always wonder. You will never know if Allah has forgiven you or not.

    And yea, most Muslims say that Jannah is not guaranteed. What I ask is. If only 1/1000 Muslims will go to paradise, what is the point of even trying? What is the point of even being Muslim when you are almost guaranteed hellfire?
    "The more I study religions the more I am convinced that man never worshiped anything but himself."
    ~Sir Richard Francis Burton

    "I think religion is just like smoking: Both invented by people, addictive, harmful, and kills!"
    ~RIBS
  • Re: Muslims will go to Hell?
     Reply #5 - April 06, 2010, 04:52 AM
    I always thought that all Muslims eventually go to heaven regardless if they follow the rules or not, but they have to go to hell for a certain period of time to purify them of their sins.
  • Re: Muslims will go to Hell?
     Reply #6 - April 06, 2010, 06:26 AM
    Quote from: kb999 on April 06, 2010, 04:52 AM
    I always thought that all Muslims eventually go to heaven regardless if they follow the rules or not, but they have to go to hell for a certain period of time to purify them of their sins.


    Thats what I heard too. I heard that as long as you were a Muslim whilst living, but committed sins, you'll go to hell temporarily and after you have paid your dues by being tortured, you'll go to heaven. Being a non-believer is the only crime that grants you eternity in hell.
    Call me TAP TAP! for I am THE ASS PATTER!
  • Re: Muslims will go to Hell?
     Reply #7 - April 06, 2010, 07:15 AM
    I read somewhere that Muhammad said most people in Hell were women.   
    This is not nice!...why men always make females the villains just because you cant control your penis? finmad
    "A good man is so hard to find but a hard man is so good to find"
  • Re: Muslims will go to Hell?
     Reply #8 - April 06, 2010, 09:28 AM
    Quote from: Saathiya on April 06, 2010, 07:15 AM
    I read somewhere that Muhammad said most people in Hell were women.   
    This is not nice!...why men always make females the villains just because you cant control your penis? finmad


    +1  Afro
    Atheism is a non-prophet organization.

    The sleeper has awakened -  Dune

    Give a man a fish, and you'll feed him for a day Give him a religion, and he'll starve to death while praying for a fish!
  • Re: Muslims will go to Hell?
     Reply #9 - April 06, 2010, 09:35 AM
    Quote from: kb999 on April 06, 2010, 04:52 AM
    I always thought that all Muslims eventually go to heaven regardless if they follow the rules or not, but they have to go to hell for a certain period of time to purify them of their sins.


    Yes, there is a hadith that says eventually anyone with a grain of faith in his heart will be taken out of Hell.
  • Re: Muslims will go to Hell?
     Reply #10 - April 06, 2010, 09:56 AM
    Quote from: Hassan on April 06, 2010, 09:35 AM
    Yes, there is a hadith that says eventually anyone with a grain of faith in his heart will be taken out of Hell.

    It's one of the Hadith Qudsi (Holy) that says this. Smiley
    German ex-Muslim forum — My YouTube — List of Ex-Muslims —
    Wikis: en – de – fr – ar – tr
    CEMB-Chat
    I'm on an indefinite break...
  • Re: Muslims will go to Hell?
     Reply #11 - April 06, 2010, 10:28 AM
    Quote from: Hassan on April 06, 2010, 09:35 AM
    Yes, there is a hadith that says eventually anyone with a grain of faith in his heart will be taken out of Hell.

    Do you know what that implies?
    Hell will be empty.

    Cause once people die and go to hell, they will surely believe Allah exists, so they will surely have a grain of faith in their heart by then ;\
    Do not look directly at the operational end of the device.
  • Re: Muslims will go to Hell?
     Reply #12 - April 06, 2010, 10:39 AM
     Cheesy Good point, but I'm not sure that would count since it wouldn't be based on faith but upon evidence. I think you'd still be stuffed.
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Muslims will go to Hell?
     Reply #13 - April 06, 2010, 10:42 AM
    Quote from: osmanthus on April 06, 2010, 10:39 AM
    Cheesy Good point, but I'm not sure that would count since it wouldn't be based on faith but upon evidence. I think you'd still be stuffed.

    Uh oh!
    If that is the case , then it means the total opposite!
    Muslims who will enter hell will never go out, cause then their "faith" will be gone, replaced by pure empirical knowledge of the truth ^_^
    Do not look directly at the operational end of the device.
  • Re: Muslims will go to Hell?
     Reply #14 - April 06, 2010, 10:45 AM
    Well yeah. So obviously the hadith that say hell is temporary must be

    False hadith.
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Muslims will go to Hell?
     Reply #15 - April 06, 2010, 10:47 AM

    For it to count, I think you need to have had that grain of faith prior to death.
    Like a compass needle that points north, a man?s accusing finger always finds a woman. Always.

    Khaled Hosseini - A thousand splendid suns.
  • Re: Muslims will go to Hell?
     Reply #16 - April 06, 2010, 10:52 AM
    Quote from: Tlaloc on April 06, 2010, 10:28 AM
    Do you know what that implies?
    Hell will be empty.

    Cause once people die and go to hell, they will surely believe Allah exists, so they will surely have a grain of faith in their heart by then ;\


    No, it means those who had a grain of faith in Allah in this life.

    Kuffar will of course be in Hell forever.
  • Re: Muslims will go to Hell?
     Reply #17 - April 06, 2010, 10:54 AM
    Quote from: osmanthus on April 06, 2010, 10:45 AM
    Well yeah. So obviously the hadith that say hell is temporary must be

    False hadith.


    It's not saying Hell is temporary for everyone - only those sinful, doubting Muslims who had at least a tiny bit of faith in Islam.

    The Kuffar will be in Hell forever.
  • Re: Muslims will go to Hell?
     Reply #18 - April 06, 2010, 10:55 AM
    Quote from: Paloma on April 06, 2010, 10:47 AM
    For it to count, I think you need to have had that grain of faith prior to death.


    Precisely!

    And it's no good if your grain of faith was in the Jesus or Vishnu or Buddha etc...
  • Re: Muslims will go to Hell?
     Reply #19 - April 06, 2010, 10:57 AM
    This reminds me of another loophole... I'll make a thread about it ^_^
    Do not look directly at the operational end of the device.
  • Re: Muslims will go to Hell?
     Reply #20 - April 06, 2010, 10:58 AM
    Quote from: Saathiya on April 06, 2010, 07:15 AM
    I read somewhere that Muhammad said most people in Hell were women.   
    This is not nice!...why men always make females the villains just because you cant control your penis? finmad

    That hadith is just another way to control females and make us behave through threats of eternal torture :( Mo really was a sick bastard.
    ~My story~
    ~Collection of unethical hadiths/surahs~
  • Re: Muslims will go to Hell?
     Reply #21 - April 06, 2010, 11:02 AM
    Quote from: Hassan on April 06, 2010, 10:52 AM
    No, it means those who had a grain of faith in Allah in this life.

    Kuffar will of course be in Hell forever.

    It's good to know there is something we can rely on.  parrot
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Muslims will go to Hell?
     Reply #22 - April 06, 2010, 11:04 AM
    btw it is well recognised doctrine that some Muslims will go to Hell but will eventually be taken out. That does not contradict the eternal nature of Hell for others.

    For example in the verse I quoted in the original post it says that Muslims who run from battle will go to Hell - it doesn't say "forever" (Khalideen/Abadan).

    But in other verses about Hell - usually referring to the Kuffar - it says "Forever" (Khalideen/Abadan).

    This shows that Hell is forever for unbelievers - but some Muslims will go there only temporarily. (because of their sins - i.e. running away from battle  Roll Eyes )
  • Re: Muslims will go to Hell?
     Reply #23 - April 06, 2010, 03:13 PM
    Yup, hell for those Muslims who have sinned is temporary, for Kuffars it's eternal. No surprise, considering the Qur'an places such a strong emphasis on belief. Only those who never got the message of Islam may be exempt from this but even those polytheists are most likely to be dropped in hell given that polytheism is is Shirk and is an 'unforgivable' sin unless one repents to Allah.

    All I know is according to Islam, all those who reject faith or belief in Islam will be getting roasted.
    "The ideal tyranny is that which is ignorantly self-administered by its victims. The most perfect slaves are, therefore, those which blissfully and unawaredly enslave themselves."
  • Re: Muslims will go to Hell?
     Reply #24 - April 08, 2010, 10:58 PM
    Interesting topic, Hassan.

    I believe  a very different thing then most do about hell. There is no eternal torture in my understanding of the Bible. i.e. The wages of sin is death. Death is being inactive and conscience of nothing at (Ecc. 9:5). Also discribed as returnining to the dust in the book of Genesis i.e. Adam was was not conscience before he was formed and became unconscience again after he died. I understand the Engilsh word hell is the translation of the transliteration of the Hebrew word Sheol and the Greek word hades, both of which many grave. Which just like in the video of you posted sometime ago. 

    I found this topic about if hell is or is not a temporary location very interesting. In the past (and perhaps even now) I had been somewhat hopeful that there would be some teaching of what I understand to be the truth about the condition of the dead  among other peoples believes. Your video of you reading and explaining verses from the Qur'an greatly decreased my hope of that being so.

    Anyhow thanks everyone for your input of different ideas about this subject.

    Until next time Lynna.
    If at first you succeed...try something harder.

    Failing isn't falling down. Failing is not getting back up again.
  • Re: Muslims will go to Hell?
     Reply #25 - April 09, 2010, 12:57 AM
    you guys beleive in a heaven and hell?  Huh?
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NV9vdUjuWxc
  • Re: Muslims will go to Hell?
     Reply #26 - April 09, 2010, 02:27 AM
    Oh definitely. I'm stocking up on marshmallows big time. I love toasted marshmallows.  dance
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Muslims will go to Hell?
     Reply #27 - April 09, 2010, 02:35 AM
    Hell is where the interesting people are. 
    So once again I'm left with the classic Irish man's dilemma, do I eat the potato or do I let it ferment so I can drink it later?
    My political philosophy below
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwGat4i8pJI&feature=g-vrec
    Just kidding, here are some true heros
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBTgvK6LQqA
  • Re: Muslims will go to Hell?
     Reply #28 - April 09, 2010, 02:41 AM
    Heaven for climate. Hell for company.  Afro
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Muslims will go to Hell?
     Reply #29 - April 09, 2010, 02:55 AM
    "If I owned Texas and Hell, I would rent Texas and live in Hell” - U.S. General Philip Henry Sheridan
    So once again I'm left with the classic Irish man's dilemma, do I eat the potato or do I let it ferment so I can drink it later?
    My political philosophy below
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwGat4i8pJI&feature=g-vrec
    Just kidding, here are some true heros
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBTgvK6LQqA
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