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Theme Changer

 Topic: Why is there something rather than nothing?

 (Read 19245 times)
  • 12 3 ... 6 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Why is there something rather than nothing?
     OP - April 13, 2010, 08:14 AM

    I hope this question is not taken too seriously by anyone. I only want to get everyone's honest opinion on the biggest question of all (at least to me). Be brave, be open, dare to speculate. No answer is too silly. Do not be afraid of sounding dogmatic for no theory is ever completely certain.
    I know that you all have well-honed skills of analysis and reduction but for now, let your imagination loose. Let us speak like two old friends on a park bench on a leafy spring morning.
    Tell me, what does your heart tell you about the universe? What really is it all about?  Smiley


    At evening, casual flocks of pigeons make
    Ambiguous undulations as they sink,
    Downward to darkness, on extended wings. - Stevens
  • Re: Why is there something rather than nothing?
     Reply #1 - April 13, 2010, 08:29 AM

    Easy. Coz there is.  Afro

    Sing along to the tune of Auld Lang Syne..................

    "We're here, because we're here, because we're here, because we're here!
    We're here, because we're here, because we're here, because we're here.........." parrot

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Why is there something rather than nothing?
     Reply #2 - April 13, 2010, 08:48 AM

    I think there is stuff because there is difference - the irruption of the new. That negated the prior state, called from nothingness the universe and all it contains.

    "...every imperfection in man is a bond with heaven..." - Karl Marx
  • Re: Why is there something rather than nothing?
     Reply #3 - April 13, 2010, 08:51 AM

    Ah. But what is nothingness?

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Why is there something rather than nothing?
     Reply #4 - April 13, 2010, 08:53 AM

    It's where there isn't something. There may not be nothingness in itself, but there is for us.

    "...every imperfection in man is a bond with heaven..." - Karl Marx
  • Re: Why is there something rather than nothing?
     Reply #5 - April 13, 2010, 09:01 AM

    Yes but what we think of as nothing is a portion of the space time continuum that contains no apparent matter or energy. That is very different to what would have existed before the BB.

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Why is there something rather than nothing?
     Reply #6 - April 13, 2010, 09:12 AM

    Is what existed before the big bang accessible to us? Ontologically it's prior what we know to be existence...

    "...every imperfection in man is a bond with heaven..." - Karl Marx
  • Re: Why is there something rather than nothing?
     Reply #7 - April 13, 2010, 09:20 AM

    Well it may be indirectly accessible to us, depending on which of the current wild speculations theories turns out to be correct.

    For instance there is the prediction made by Quantum Loop Gravity:

    Quote
    Until very recently, asking what happened at or before the Big Bang was considered by physicists to be a religious question. General relativity theory just doesn’t go there – at T=0, it spews out zeros, infinities, and errors – and so the question didn’t make sense from a scientific view.

    But in the past few years, a new theory called Loop Quantum Gravity (LQG) has emerged. The theory suggests the possibility of a “quantum bounce,” where our universe stems from the collapse of a previous universe. Yet what that previous universe looked like was still beyond answering.

    Now, physicists Alejandro Corichi from Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México and Parampreet Singh from the Perimeter Institute for Theoretical Physics in Ontario have developed a simplified LQG model that gives an intriguing answer: a pre-Big Bang universe might have looked a lot like ours. Their study will appear in an upcoming issue of Physical Review Letters.

    “The significance of this concept is that it answers what happened to the universe before the Big Bang,” Singh told PhysOrg.com. “It has remained a mystery, for models that could resolve the Big Bang singularity, whether it is a quantum foam or a classical space-time on the other side. For instance, if it were a quantum foam, we could not speak about a space-time, a notion of time, etc. Our study shows that the universe on the other side is very classical as ours.”

    The finding builds on previous research, with some important differences. Last year, Penn State physicist Martin Bojowald used a simplified version of LQG to show that a universe “on the other side” of the bounce could have existed. However, although that model produced valid math, no observations of our current universe could have lead to any understanding of the state of the pre-bounce universe, as nothing was preserved across the bounce. Bojowald described this as a sort of “cosmic amnesia.”

    But Corichi and Singh have modified the simplified LQG theory further by approximating a key equation called the quantum constraint. Using their version, called sLQG, the researchers show that the relative fluctuations of volume and momentum in the pre-bounce universe are conserved across the bounce.

    “This means that the twin universe will have the same laws of physics and, in particular, the same notion of time as in ours,” Singh said. “The laws of physics will not change because the evolution is always unitary, which is the nicest way a quantum system can evolve. In our analogy, it will look identical to its twin when seen from afar; one could not distinguish them.”



    Or there is the theory about twin universes existing concurrently:

    Quote
    String theorists Neil Turok of Cambridge University and Paul Steinhardt, Albert Einstein Professor in Science and Director of the Princeton Center for Theoretical Science at Princeton believe that the cosmos we live in was actually created by the cyclical trillion-year collision of two universes (which they define as three-dimensional branes plus time) that were attracted toward each other by the leaking of gravity out of one of the universes.

    In their view of the universe the complexities of an inflating universe after a Big Bang are replaced by a universe that was already large. flat, and uniform with dark energy as the effect of the other universe constantly leaking gravity into our own and driving its acceleration. According to this theory, the Big Bang was not the beginning of time but the bridge to a past filled with endlessly repeating cycles of evolution, each accompanied by the creation of new matter and the formation of new galaxies, stars, and planets.


    Turok and Steinhardt were inspired by a lecture given by Burt Ovrut who imagined two branes, universes like ours, separated by a tiny gap as tiny as 10-32 meters. There would be no communictaion between the two universes except for our parallel sister universe's gravitational pull, which could cross the tiny gap.

    Orvut's theory could explain the effect of dark matter where areas of the universe are heavier than they should be given everything that's present. With their theory, the nagging problems surrounding the Big Bang (beginning from what, and caused how?) are replaced by an eternal cosmic cycle where dark energy is no longer a mysterious unknown quantity, but rather the very extra gravitational force that drives the universe to universe (brane-brane) interaction.


    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Why is there something rather than nothing?
     Reply #8 - April 13, 2010, 09:35 AM

    Easy. Coz there is.  Afro

    Sing along to the tune of Auld Lang Syne..................

    "We're here, because we're here, because we're here, because we're here!
    We're here, because we're here, because we're here, because we're here.........." parrot


    But how do you know you're 'here', that this is 'ultimate reality'? we could be sitting on a space ship in the year 4000 in a state of suspended animation and all our minds are hooked up together thus sharing the one virtual consciousness Smiley how do we know this is ultimate reality? sure, you could kick a stone and it hurts someone but that it is just an electrical impulse running around the body and brain Cheesy

    Ah, the joy of picking apart materialism lol

    "It's just a job. Grass grows, birds fly, waves pound the sand. I beat people up." - Muhammad Ali
  • Re: Why is there something rather than nothing?
     Reply #9 - April 13, 2010, 09:36 AM

    I don't. However in the absence of better information I'm assuming we're here.  grin12

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Why is there something rather than nothing?
     Reply #10 - April 13, 2010, 09:48 AM

    But how do you know you're 'here', that this is 'ultimate reality'? we could be sitting on a space ship in the year 4000 in a state of suspended animation and all our minds are hooked up together thus sharing the one virtual consciousness Smiley how do we know this is ultimate reality? sure, you could kick a stone and it hurts someone but that it is just an electrical impulse running around the body and brain Cheesy

    Ah, the joy of picking apart materialism lol

    Reminds me of a NewScientist article claiming everything is actually a hologram (that's if we find the god particle):
    http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20126911.300-our-world-may-be-a-giant-hologram.html
    You need a subscription to read the full article. I don't have a subscription any more so cant post the full one.
  • Re: Why is there something rather than nothing?
     Reply #11 - April 13, 2010, 09:53 AM

    I wish the buggers would just let me get an online subscription. You have to get a print sub to access the online stuff, but I don't want a pile of magazines cluttering up the house.

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Why is there something rather than nothing?
     Reply #12 - April 13, 2010, 10:00 AM

    Yeah, I had like a million of them in my old house. What pisses me off the most is how difficult it is to cancel the subscription. I brought mine for only 6 months but they carry it on until you cancel it yourself! On top of that it takes 8 weeks to cancel it. You cant do it through the phone, you need to send them an email. I wasn't even sure how to cancel it 'till I phoned them up.

    I'm not sure if I'll be buying a subscription again, I don't agree with the current trend of forcing people to pay for news.
  • Re: Why is there something rather than nothing?
     Reply #13 - April 13, 2010, 10:25 AM

    Why is there something rather than nothing?


    Because nothing wanted to experience something.
  • Re: Why is there something rather than nothing?
     Reply #14 - April 13, 2010, 10:30 AM

    Easy. Coz there is.  Afro

    Sing along to the tune of Auld Lang Syne..................

    "We're here, because we're here, because we're here, because we're here!
    We're here, because we're here, because we're here, because we're here.........." parrot


    Here's a better song:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=buqtdpuZxvk
  • Re: Why is there something rather than nothing?
     Reply #15 - April 13, 2010, 11:36 AM

    Why is there something rather than nothing?


    I always find it amusing when theists ask that question as if it's some knock-down argument against atheism... and the irony is completely lost on them.

    But anyway; because you can't have nothing without something and vice versa.

    Psuedo-profound enough?
  • Re: Why is there something rather than nothing?
     Reply #16 - April 13, 2010, 12:12 PM

    I have entertained the possibility of this present universe being a by-product of a previous one, ie that a previous universe expanded and expanded over eons until all the energy pushing it was spent and it then collapsed in on its self, the collapse itself was of such magnitude that the force of it created such energy that it then re-exploded ( big bang ) with the new engery and a new universe began to take shape. This may have happened billions of times allready over an unimaginable time-scale for our poor wee human brains. However, no matter (pun! ) how many times it has happened there would have to have been at some point nothing. As soon as someone posits a 'something' ( the laziest of them posit a 'someone )  then we have the infite regress of , so what was before that something ,as infinitim.
    So for there to be something now , there must have at some point been a nothing. Thats as good as my homo-sapien grey matter can get with the question,of course I bet if someone asked their computer why it existed  and what was before it it would say ' dumpfile: 0001 NTLDR<ifthen> newstring: bluescreen :

     Which is comp speak for exactly what I just said above about the universe

    According to the polls only 1.6 % of Americans are athiests. So what gives you the right to call the other 80% morons?'
  • Re: Why is there something rather than nothing?
     Reply #17 - April 13, 2010, 12:57 PM

    Because you cant create nothing out of something.

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Why is there something rather than nothing?
     Reply #18 - April 13, 2010, 12:59 PM

    How do you know?

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Why is there something rather than nothing?
     Reply #19 - April 13, 2010, 01:03 PM

    its scientific fact

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Why is there something rather than nothing?
     Reply #20 - April 13, 2010, 01:22 PM

    I hope this question is not taken too seriously by anyone. I only want to get everyone's honest opinion on the biggest question of all (at least to me). Be brave, be open, dare to speculate. No answer is too silly. Do not be afraid of sounding dogmatic for no theory is ever completely certain.
    I know that you all have well-honed skills of analysis and reduction but for now, let your imagination loose. Let us speak like two old friends on a park bench on a leafy spring morning.
    Tell me, what does your heart tell you about the universe? What really is it all about?  Smiley


    Because "nothing" cannot exist; it is simply the absence of the "presence" of something. Darkness does not exist; it is simply the absence of light.

    Islam is a funny religion which is misunderstood by its scholars and correctly understood by ordinary Muslims.
    Faith is keeping your eyes shut when looking at the world, and/or keeping your eyes open only for the beauty of the world.
  • Re: Why is there something rather than nothing?
     Reply #21 - April 13, 2010, 01:24 PM

    its scientific fact


    As far as we are presently aware.
  • Re: Why is there something rather than nothing?
     Reply #22 - April 13, 2010, 01:34 PM

    But how do you know you're 'here', that this is 'ultimate reality'? we could be sitting on a space ship in the year 4000 in a state of suspended animation and all our minds are hooked up together thus sharing the one virtual consciousness Smiley how do we know this is ultimate reality? sure, you could kick a stone and it hurts someone but that it is just an electrical impulse running around the body and brain Cheesy

    Ah, the joy of picking apart materialism lol


    Grin But your question is quite serious, and quite difficult to answer. What we perceive as reality is the result of our subjectivity and it is almost impossible for us to perceive the "reality" as our faculties of perception themselves are quite limited in scope.

    Islam is a funny religion which is misunderstood by its scholars and correctly understood by ordinary Muslims.
    Faith is keeping your eyes shut when looking at the world, and/or keeping your eyes open only for the beauty of the world.
  • Re: Why is there something rather than nothing?
     Reply #23 - April 13, 2010, 01:38 PM

    I don't. However in the absence of better information I'm assuming we're here.  grin12


     Cheesy That was nice.

    Islam is a funny religion which is misunderstood by its scholars and correctly understood by ordinary Muslims.
    Faith is keeping your eyes shut when looking at the world, and/or keeping your eyes open only for the beauty of the world.
  • Re: Why is there something rather than nothing?
     Reply #24 - April 13, 2010, 01:44 PM

    Because nothing wanted to experience something.


    This was a serious response Zed - what if God is everything and wanted to experience everything? What if we are all bits of God? Whatever God is?
  • Re: Why is there something rather than nothing?
     Reply #25 - April 13, 2010, 02:00 PM

    This was a serious response Zed - what if God is everything and wanted to experience everything? What if we are all bits of God? Whatever God is?

    Had the same thoughts. God exploded out of boredom! yes

    German ex-Muslim forumMy YouTubeList of Ex-Muslims
    Wikis: en de fr ar tr
    CEMB-Chat
    I'm on an indefinite break...
  • Re: Why is there something rather than nothing?
     Reply #26 - April 13, 2010, 02:04 PM

    lol... it's a thought!
  • Re: Why is there something rather than nothing?
     Reply #27 - April 13, 2010, 02:22 PM

    I think it's something like ying and yang, the something and the nothing making a whole, for there to be 'nothing' we must know what 'something' is and vice versa. There's a natural balance in the universe, with fluctuations, but averaging to equilibrium. In fact 'nothing' doesn't really exist because our definition of nothing is the lack of the things we know, who is to say there are things that that we don't know of and hence there is something there...so the nothing and somethingness is simply our perception of the universe a way to categorise, compare, communicate and nothing more. Smiley We can't talk about it in the absolute sense of 'nothing and something', because we're basing the definitions on our relative knowledge.

    "Between stimulus and response there is a space. In that space is our power to choose our response. In our response lies our growth and our freedom." - Viktor E. Frankl

    'Life is just the extreme expression of complex chemistry' - Neil deGrasse Tyson
  • Re: Why is there something rather than nothing?
     Reply #28 - April 13, 2010, 02:26 PM

    This was a serious response Zed - what if God is everything and wanted to experience everything? What if we are all bits of God? Whatever God is?

     

    That sounds very Hindu of you.

    Specifically, the idea of Brahman; the pantheistic God that embodies and encompasses all things. Everything else is manifested by it but it itself remains unmanifest and hidden.

    It makes sense, I think, even from an atheistic perspective. Everything that exists is simply a manifestation of this fundamental order that, completely spontaneously, creates everything else.

    That concept of God always made more sense to me than the theistic one. The 'pantheistic' God is one that isn't bound by completely random preferences and dispositions. It is, by contrast to the theistic God, completely free.

    At the same time, it doesn't seem to have the problem of begging for a designer itself, having no specific configuration in its nature that is simply without explanation. It itself has no specific design that one would feel needs to be accounted for.

    While I think Daoism and Hinduism are every bit as mythological as other religions, I think their concept of God is quite a bit more sophisticated and credible than the Abrahamic one.

    But as they say, tat tvam asi.
  • Re: Why is there something rather than nothing?
     Reply #29 - April 13, 2010, 02:30 PM

    If I could could speak goldfish and explain to my goldfish that the water in his tank comes from a tap and that tap is an endpoint of a network of pipes and that water comes from reservoirs that are filled from rain water that comes from the clouds that the clouds get from passing over bodies of water and that some of the water is recycled from piss that was in people's bladders because they drank drinks that were made from water that came from the tap, he would probably be really confused.
    Just like the questions you ask are beyond my comprehension.
    So I shall leave you with a song
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_DV54ddNHE

    My style is impetuous, my defense is impregnable and I'm just ferocious. I want your heart. I want to eat your children. Praise be to Allah." -- Mike Tyson
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