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Theme Changer

 Topic: When do you stop blaming God?

 (Read 13924 times)
  • 12 3 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »
  • When do you stop blaming God?
     OP - April 21, 2010, 09:10 PM

    I have been an ex-Muslim for 3 years now - and have reached the point where I can't say I truly believe in God anymore - if there is one he sure kept it quiet.

    But I still feel angry with God at times. I still keep blaming him for the hurt I feel and the suffering in the world.

    Just wondering if people here feel anger towards a God they don't believe in?

    And why?
  • Re: When do you stop blaming God?
     Reply #1 - April 21, 2010, 09:16 PM

    Used to be angry with him when I was a Muslim. I'm not anymore.
  • Re: When do you stop blaming God?
     Reply #2 - April 21, 2010, 09:20 PM

    I say Oh My God, God Damn, God Darn, Why God all the time, but its just an automatic reaction on my behalf without any faith behind it, I have been non-religious my whole life, and an atheist too. I believe in "god" as a sum of all that will, does and has existed, so therefore "god" changes and is neither bad or good, but that what exists can be beautiful or hideous.
  • Re: When do you stop blaming God?
     Reply #3 - April 21, 2010, 09:22 PM

    I wish I could go back to blaming god, but I blame everything on me now that I no longer believe in a scapegoat. 


    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: When do you stop blaming God?
     Reply #4 - April 21, 2010, 09:39 PM

    I don't blame God anymore--and I used to when I was angry for petty things, never when I looked at the ugliness in the world, somehow I always associated that with humanity. What made me angry at God was my own personal strife--which shows that God is just something in your head.

    God really has dissipated entirely from my mind now. I only bring him/her/it up hypothetically or in speech. "Oh, God" or "Oh fucking God" is something that just comes out of my mouth and I am not going to try to fix it. Tongue

    "If intelligence is feminine... I would want that mine would, in a resolute movement, come to resemble an impious woman."
  • Re: When do you stop blaming God?
     Reply #5 - April 21, 2010, 09:50 PM

    It seems pretty crazy to be pissed at something you don't believe in. But I gotta say, If I read the Qur'an or OT, I can't help disliking the gods of those books. Just as I'd dislike any asshole.

    I've never seriously believed in a theistic god, so I've never felt any real anger or hatred towards some external entity. I don't believe in a god that takes an interest in human affairs, so I wouldn't be blaming said god for something that it takes no interest in or doesn't interfere with.

    I'm no psychoanalyst, but I'd say it's because you're used to the idea of a god that can and does interfere with human affairs and that's why you feel anger towards it.

    You see the suffering that people go through, and you also still retain the concept of a god, which is able to alleviate that suffering, in your mind. And so, when you see that god doing nothing to help people, you then blame that god for not helping people when it's capable of doing so.

    I imagine people may stop actively believing in something, yet their minds still retains these concepts, and so the psychological influence they have is likewise retained.
  • Re: When do you stop blaming God?
     Reply #6 - April 21, 2010, 11:08 PM

    I never really blamed him when I was a Muslim, cuz it would be blasphemous, and kept telling myself god knows best. I don't blame him now, cuz I believe he doesn't exist.

    "In every time and culture there are pressures to conform to the prevailing prejudices. But there are also, in every place and epoch, those who value the truth; who record the evidence faithfully. Future generations are in their debt." -Carl Sagan

  • Re: When do you stop blaming God?
     Reply #7 - April 21, 2010, 11:26 PM

    I never really blamed him when I was a Muslim, cuz it would be blasphemous, and kept telling myself god knows best. I don't blame him now, cuz I believe he doesn't exist.


    I was exactly the same. But I'm not atheist, I'm more Agnostic/Deist.

    "The more I study religions the more I am convinced that man never worshiped anything but himself."
    ~Sir Richard Francis Burton

    "I think religion is just like smoking: Both invented by people, addictive, harmful, and kills!"
    ~RIBS
  • Re: When do you stop blaming God?
     Reply #8 - April 22, 2010, 02:23 AM

    Since I was fortunate enough to have been raised in an environment which made apostasy extremely easy, I stopped believing in god long before I'd ever have the chance to get angry at him. Letting go of god means you can stop wasting time and start focusing on the true causes of the world's ills.
  • Re: When do you stop blaming God?
     Reply #9 - April 22, 2010, 02:40 AM

    I wish I could go back to blaming god, but I blame everything on me now that I no longer believe in a scapegoat. 


    Me too. I blame myself for things a lot of times, probably more than I need to sometimes. But I feel there's a sense of responsibility that comes from owning my crap, not blaming anyone else for things. At least as an adult, I am responsible for what I do with the deck of cards I've been given, nobody else.

    That said, I tend to challenge establishments in many parts of life, politically, socially, in business. I don't say thank god when i get a lucky break, I try and thank the person/people who gave it to me. If I get screwed over in some aspect of life, I also don't blame god anymore, I blame the person/people/company/system I feel are responsible, and I try and accept my part in the responsibility, even if it was just me making a hasty or a stupid, unexamined choice.

    For many years in the earlier years of questioning religion I do remember blaming "god". Also, thanking "god" when something good happened. When I talk to certain believers, I still feel I have the right, and the responsibility, to bring up the immorality of "god" (especially the Abrahamic Monotheistic god which is certainly an evil idea if there ever was one).

    Don't remember exactly when I actually, internally stopped blaming god, but it did continue after I stopped believing in him, but I may have still thought I was agnostic about the Abrahamic god. I think it was just a natural result of really just thinking about the futility of blaming or thanking a non-existent entity. It'd be like blaming Voldemort or thanking Dumbledore.

    If you sit and just think about what that means, that a personal god really can't exist, then it eventually stops being a habit to "blame" or "thank" something that simply isn't there. Better instead to blame or hold responsible or thank, applaud, celebrate the person/people/system who did or enabled something, and try to help make some practical, positive changes in the world.

    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
  • Re: When do you stop blaming God?
     Reply #10 - April 22, 2010, 03:04 AM

    second allat on this one!!!...

    i do though blame myself for lost time.. alot.. i blame myself that i didn't realize earlier and regret the guilt i felt for trivial things that i had control over but didn't have the knowledge to take responsiblity for..
    atheism is the harder route..
    but there's no going back to blaming 'a fake man in the sky'!!
  • Re: When do you stop blaming God?
     Reply #11 - April 22, 2010, 03:13 AM

    Better late than never, nessrriinn far away hug

    It can be difficult to really, fully accept that nobody but us, ourselves, and other human beings, are responsible for what we do in this world. That's one of the roles of god(s): eternal parental figures we can whine to, blame, beg from, give over responsibility to.

    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
  • Re: When do you stop blaming God?
     Reply #12 - April 22, 2010, 03:15 AM

    I'm no psychoanalyst, but I'd say it's because you're used to the idea of a god that can and does interfere with human affairs and that's why you feel anger towards it.
    ...
    I imagine people may stop actively believing in something, yet their minds still retains these concepts, and so the psychological influence they have is likewise retained.


    I agree with this too. Just because we intellectually understand something, doesn't mean that understanding really sinks in on an emotional, precognitive level. That takes time, and practice.

    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
  • Re: When do you stop blaming God?
     Reply #13 - April 22, 2010, 04:35 AM

    I never really blamed god. Though I changed from Christianity to Islam, my own concept of god never changed, and I really believed that god would look out for me if I was patient enough.  When I began doubting, I was only doubting myself... my choices, my beliefs, my blindness. By the time I realized I didn't believe in god, there was nothing left to blame except myself. And now I do blame myself for the way I allowed myself to be influenced by certain people, for lacking the ability to stand up to what I thought was wrong (instead I swept it under the carpet and pretended it wasn't there so I could go on believing), and for all the wasted time, like Nesrin said, that I didn't realize sooner.

    But Hassan, you've been wavering on your belief in god for awhile now, so maybe your hopes that there is some kind of truly good god are still lingering. It's ok to be angry with "god," because sometimes there's nothing else to blame. We all get screwed by deus ex machina at some point in our lives. Just don't let your anger for god interfere with the control you have over your own life Smiley

    The only thing we have to fear is fear itself
    - 32nd United States President Franklin D. Roosevelt
  • Re: When do you stop blaming God?
     Reply #14 - April 22, 2010, 06:07 AM

    This issue is a one of the favourites of a theist, who sometimes accuse atheists of being angry with God. I simply laugh when I hear such a comment. Why would I want to blame a non existent entity?

    My youngest daughter is eight years old and has a myriad of mental and physical incapacities she was born with. She has severe learning difficulties, is autistic, has the mental age of an eighteen month old, retarded growth, doesn't walk and refuses to stand, still wears a nappy, doesn't eat or drink anything via the mouth, is fed a special supplement through a feeding tube passed into her intestines and spends all her time either lying down in her cot or sat in a wheelchair.

    Now, in Islamic theology, everything that happens to the individual good and bad comes from God. So what the Muslim does is submit and resign himself to the will of God. The Muslim has no room to say "why me?" or "why is my child going through this?" The believer simply says that they don't understand the wisdom behind it. Whatever happens to us or within the cosmos is a manifestation of one of God's attributes according to Islamic theology. I think Hassan can elaborate or agree with me here?

    One of God's attributes is Al-Hakam or The Arbiter. He judges and wills as he sees fit. If I use the example of my daughter stated above, I have resigned to the will of God and accepted that's how she is. Now as a believer, I can accept that my faith is being tested and I have to endure this hardship and I can also be objective and say that there are people in the world going through worse calamities than me, which should ease my burden.

    There are a few problems with the above thinking. Firstly, what part of my faith is God testing? An Omniscient God testing me for an outcome that he already knows! Secondly, if that exact situation was placed onto a non-believer, then supposedly this criteria doesn't fit. What testing and what outcome? Thirdly, what about the person who is directly enduring the suffering? That suffering is still there, and it isn't a momentary or short term thing, but something  that the subject is going through all the time. Multiply that by the millions of people past and present who have endured and are enduring this. Not to mention the eons of time that have lapsed before the advent of humans, in which fellow creatures have suffered and are still doing so in the wild. Fifth, if we are to be objective and look at the wider picture, then why does the believer then insist that it's about our subjective faith, it's not meant to be objective, faith is a subjective matter. But then so is the testing of the parent and the suffering of the child!. Be consistent in your argument.

    As a Muslim you accept that explanation and move on..... But is that really an explanation or is it just a bold assertion, which if narrowed down can be summed up by ".....because I say so and don't question!". What is the difference between that and no answer at all? Nothing.

    In reality there is no difference between the Muslim concept of God with his ninety-nine attributes and a benign indifferent universe indifferent to our happiness and suffering. All theology and theodicy does is raise more questions than it can possibly answer. The irony of it all is that theology and theodicy wouldn't have had to be invented by the believers and theologians to begin with had the loopholes in the scriptures not existed.

    The point of all the rant is that once you accept that we exist in this indifferent universe where there is no testing or objective reason for our existence, then the acceptance of examples such as my daughter are easier to explain and digest. That's just how she is. It's in her DNA. Simple as that. Asking "why?" it's in her DNA becomes futile because the answer lies in "it's in her DNA". Going further than that is simply inviting more and more questions.
  • Re: When do you stop blaming God?
     Reply #15 - April 22, 2010, 02:38 PM

    Hi,
    Perhaps you still feel angry toward God because you blame him for things that were done in the name of God and religion that God had no intention to happen. Things like injustice, child abuse, racism, untimely death, natural disasters were not and are not part of God's original plan. So, maybe next time you become angry with God you could take a moment to think about who is really responsible and blame them and be angry with them enstead. 

    Until another time, Lynna




    I have been an ex-Muslim for 3 years now - and have reached the point where I can't say I truly believe in God anymore - if there is one he sure kept it quiet.
    But I still feel angry with God at times. I still keep blaming him for the hurt I feel and the suffering in the world.
    Just wondering if people here feel anger towards a God they don't believe in?
    And why?


    If at first you succeed...try something harder.

    Failing isn't falling down. Failing is not getting back up again.
  • Re: When do you stop blaming God?
     Reply #16 - April 22, 2010, 02:55 PM

    Lynna, your God kills everyone.

    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
  • Re: When do you stop blaming God?
     Reply #17 - April 22, 2010, 03:07 PM

    Hi,
    Perhaps you still feel angry toward God because you blame him for things that were done in the name of God and religion that God had no intention to happen.
    Until another time, Lynna

    Wow!
    You are basically saying that God is not omniscient and neither is he omnipotent.



  • Re: When do you stop blaming God?
     Reply #18 - April 22, 2010, 03:17 PM

    I have been an ex-Muslim for 3 years now - and have reached the point where I can't say I truly believe in God anymore - if there is one he sure kept it quiet.

    But I still feel angry with God at times. I still keep blaming him for the hurt I feel and the suffering in the world.

    Just wondering if people here feel anger towards a God they don't believe in?

    And why?


    I was atheist, then deist, bordered on theism for a short time before Islam made me an atheist.  When I thought there was a god I found it hard to reconcile an all powerful all loving god with the suffering I saw, I had to justify it as a test for people like me to help them etc. When I stopped believing in god it all just made sense, it happens because the world is a cruel and harsh place in which to survive, if it wasn't then there'd be so much DNA polluting the gene pool that there would hardly be any evolution and I wouldn't even exist.

    Death is a beautiful thing, without it there would be no valuable life.

    I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
  • Re: When do you stop blaming God?
     Reply #19 - April 22, 2010, 03:20 PM

    I was atheist, then deist, bordered on theism for a short time before Islam made me an atheist.  When I thought there was a god I found it hard to reconcile an all powerful all loving god with the suffering I saw, I had to justify it as a test for people like me to help them etc. When I stopped believing in god it all just made sense, it happens because the world is a cruel and harsh place in which to survive, if it wasn't then there'd be so much DNA polluting the gene pool that there would hardly be any evolution and I wouldn't even exist.

    Death is a beautiful thing, without it there would be no valuable life.


    I agree. And thus the binary good vs evil dichotomy of monotheism makes even less sense when you look at the universe in a holistic, pantheistic sense.

    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
  • Re: When do you stop blaming God?
     Reply #20 - April 22, 2010, 04:00 PM

    I agree. And thus the binary good vs evil dichotomy of monotheism makes even less sense when you look at the universe in a holistic, pantheistic sense.

    You're saying there isn't some sort of eternal 'good vs evil' battle going on in teh universe? Next you'll be telling me midichlorians aren't real.  Roll Eyes

    On a serious note, I do think that the Abrahamic faiths in particular have ingrained certain ways of thinking in many cultures they've infected, one of the most damaging being the encouragement to view complex situations in a binary fashion.

    Each of us a failed state in stark relief against the backdrop of the perfect worlds we seek.
    Propagandhi - Failed States
  • Re: When do you stop blaming God?
     Reply #21 - April 23, 2010, 06:44 AM

    Hi Allat,
    It is not my God who killed everyone. My God never wanted anyone at all to die. If you will please let us take a look at part of the beginning of mankinds history as record in the Bible.


    Genesis 2:15 And Jehovah God proceeded to take the man and settle him in the garden of E´den to cultivate it and to take care of it. 16 And Jehovah God also laid this command upon the man: “From every tree of the garden you may eat to satisfaction. 17 But as for the tree of the knowledge of good and bad you must not eat from it, for in the day you eat from it you will positively die.”

    According to those verses why would any of mankind die?

    As I understand it death would not have occurred among mankind unless or until some one disrespected God by rebelling against the single law that was given to not eat from one certain tree. The purpose of that law was to reveal a persons attituted and willingness to be directed by their Creator.

    Do you see something else there?

    Eve was deceived into becoming rebellious by eating the fruit of that tree.  Adam was willingly with forethought in rebellion against God when he began eating from the  tree. There was also another being that rebelled against God in this situation, that was a spirit creature who came to be know a Satan.  All this rebellion brought up a question regarding God's ability and right to direct his creation. So the Creator of all creation is allowing a predetermined length of time for mankind to show their ability to direct themselves. During this time death continues as a result of inheritted sin. That however does not mean that God causes death only that death is allowed for a time.

    There are many more details about this in the Bible, if you are actually interested I would be willing to discuss it further.

    until another time. Lynna



    Lynna, your God kills everyone.

    [/i]

    If at first you succeed...try something harder.

    Failing isn't falling down. Failing is not getting back up again.
  • Re: When do you stop blaming God?
     Reply #22 - April 23, 2010, 07:10 AM

    God never killed anybody. You're a lier if you say otherwise! Angry

    German ex-Muslim forumMy YouTubeList of Ex-Muslims
    Wikis: en de fr ar tr
    CEMB-Chat
    I'm on an indefinite break...
  • Re: When do you stop blaming God?
     Reply #23 - April 23, 2010, 07:14 AM

    Hi Allat,
    It is not my God who killed everyone. My God never wanted anyone at all to die. If you will please let us take a look at part of the beginning of mankinds history as record in the Bible.

    What does Genesis have to do with history?

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: When do you stop blaming God?
     Reply #24 - April 23, 2010, 07:38 AM

    Hi Kenan

    Omniscient and omnipotent are words that I don't normally use so I looked them up:

    omniscient
    Definition: knowing and understanding all things
    Synonyms: all-knowing, all-seeing
    Antonyms: short-sighted

    omnipotent
    Having unlimited or universal power, authority, or force; all-powerful. See Usage Note at infinite.
    n.
    1. One having unlimited power or authority: the bureaucratic omnipotents.
    2. Omnipotent God. Used with the.

    Humm... I might really need more time to think about this.

    My first thought is that God is not omniscient, however neither is God short-sighted. God understands all things but he does not know beforehand exactly what I'm going to do next. God many have a good idea how a certian person might (re)act in a given situation based on the persons previous activity but that person still has freewill which means there is no bases for thinking a person is predestine.

    It seems that omnipotent is a word that could be applied to the true God. God has unlimited power but that does not mean he is bound to to use it in every situation. Things happen that God would perfer didn't happen.

    I don't know for sure right now because even as I sit here I realize there are aspects of these ideas that I have not given any or nearly enough thought to.

    What do you think?

    until next time. Lynna

    Until next time.







    Wow!
    You are basically saying that God is not omniscient and neither is he omnipotent.


    If at first you succeed...try something harder.

    Failing isn't falling down. Failing is not getting back up again.
  • Re: When do you stop blaming God?
     Reply #25 - April 23, 2010, 07:42 AM

    I don't know for sure right now because even as I sit here I realize there are aspects of these ideas that I have not given any or nearly enough thought to.

    What do you think?

    Thinking leads to atheism.  Wink

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: When do you stop blaming God?
     Reply #26 - April 23, 2010, 07:51 AM

    Hi Osmnthus,

    There are very many ideas about history, from many points of view. The Genesis account is one of them. Neither you or I were there. So at best all any one can do is review the points presented as historical event  to us and see what seems most resonable to ourself.  I can go with Genesis and I was explaining my point of view on a subject. Do you want to present yours? I'll listen to it for the sake of conversation.


    What does Genesis have to do with history?


    If at first you succeed...try something harder.

    Failing isn't falling down. Failing is not getting back up again.
  • Re: When do you stop blaming God?
     Reply #27 - April 23, 2010, 07:52 AM

    Are you sure?


    Thinking leads to atheism.  Wink


    If at first you succeed...try something harder.

    Failing isn't falling down. Failing is not getting back up again.
  • Re: When do you stop blaming God?
     Reply #28 - April 23, 2010, 07:56 AM

    Hi Aziz,

    Is that your actual belief or you just trying to argue?



    God never killed anybody. You're a lier if you say otherwise! Angry


    If at first you succeed...try something harder.

    Failing isn't falling down. Failing is not getting back up again.
  • Re: When do you stop blaming God?
     Reply #29 - April 23, 2010, 08:04 AM

    Hi Osmnthus,

    There are very many ideas about history, from many points of view. The Genesis account is one of them. Neither you or I were there. So at best all any one can do is review the points presented as historical event  to us and see what seems most resonable to ourself.  I can go with Genesis and I was explaining my point of view on a subject. Do you want to present yours? I'll listen to it for the sake of conversation.

    Sure. There is no evidence that supports Genesis as history and there is a huge amount of evidence that indicates Genesis is not history. You don't have to have been there. You just have to be able to read the traces left by what was there.

    Example: if you walked outside on a winter morning and found snow on the ground you'd assume it had fallen from the sky, because that is what the evidence tells you is the source of snow. If I accosted you in your front yard and told you that no, the snow had miraculously appeared from the earth itself you wouldn't believe me. If I then insisted that I had a book which asserted that snow appears from the earth you still wouldn't believe it. Why do you believe in the bible as history in the face of all the evidence against it? It's just another book that makes assertions.


    Are you sure?

    Not invariably, but quite often.

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
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