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Theme Changer

 Topic: Come back to Allah

 (Read 64988 times)
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  • Re: Come back to Allah
     Reply #90 - May 04, 2010, 12:37 AM



    God has given us all a brain to use. Some use it. Others abuse it.

    If you are honest and use your brain to reason and think properly, then you will be able to tell the
    difference between what is a lie and what is a fact. That is how great scientists make great discoveries.

    Allah says the same thing in the Quran. He wants us all to use our intellect which he gave us so that we achieve happiness and certainty. Without using our intelligence, we cannot see right from wrong, truth from falsehood. We should never fall for propaganda and hatred.



    Using your brain how can you prove that Allah is the true God.

    Now, when we look at the universe we think to ourselves "Wooow, some one must have created that" but why is it Allah why not any other God.

    And do not tell me Scientific miracles there are in all holy books as i gave you an example from the bible in my previous post. And i can give you another from Hinduism.
  • Re: Come back to Allah
     Reply #91 - May 04, 2010, 06:48 AM

    Hi Ahmad - di you get my previous question?

    Ahmad you came on here asking us to return to Islam and claiming the Qur'an is perfect.

    Yet it seems you don't actually know that for certain yourself.

    It seems you are taking other people's word for it.

    So what is the case, Ahmad, do you believe the Qur'an is perfect because other people say it is?

    Or can you post here some specific evidence of what you claim. Not the links to the claims of others. A solid example of your claim that the Qur'an is perfect.

    The onus is on you to show me the evidence yourself.

    Or are you just parroting the claims of others without actually knowing if they are true?

  • Re: Come back to Allah
     Reply #92 - May 04, 2010, 07:19 AM

    Is it me or is Ahmed just repeating everything those guys on youtube say all day?

    - Koran is perfect
    - Koran is scientific

    My favorite is "If you use reason, you will see that the koran is true."

    Well Ahmed, i tell you one thing, i read the Koran, and im a really reasonable person, but the book is neither perfect nor scientific. Its just another religious book.

    And if you now say "Well, you didnt read it in arabic." Then know this, if i have to read it in arabic to understand it, THE BOOK IS NOT PERFECT!

    "We are never deceived, we deceive ourselves." - from Goethes Faust
    "Only the wisest and the stupidest men never change." - Confuzios
    "there is no religion of peace, only people who are peaceful while being religious."
  • Re: Come back to Allah
     Reply #93 - May 04, 2010, 07:30 AM

    Quote from: DigDeep
    And if you now say "Well, you didnt read it in arabic." Then know this, if i have to read it in arabic to understand it, THE BOOK IS NOT PERFECT!

     Cheesy I always thought that too, and I am an Arab! If God is the ultimate being, creator of the heavens and the earth and everything in between, he should be able to get his message across in any other language.... But noooooo, he just so happens to like Arabic more.
    Now I'm waiting for Ahmed to say "That's because Arabic is the best language in the world" Roll Eyes

    I know someday you'll have a beautiful life, I know you'll be a star
    In somebody else's sky, but why, why, why
    Can't it be, can't it be mine

    https://twitter.com/AlharbiMoe
  • Re: Come back to Allah
     Reply #94 - May 04, 2010, 08:09 AM

    Hence Quran is perfect and Islam is the true way of life.

    Look dude, instead of meaningless trolling why don't you accept Hassan's offer?

    So far you have completely ignored it. Are you afraid or what?
  • Re: Come back to Allah
     Reply #95 - May 04, 2010, 08:55 AM

    And do not tell me Scientific miracles there are in all holy books as i gave you an example from the bible in my previous post. And i can give you another from Hinduism.



    There are scientific miracles in Hinduism? Like what?
  • Re: Come back to Allah
     Reply #96 - May 04, 2010, 09:18 AM


    Some people like Cool Canadian claim that the scientist Maurice Bucaille did not convert to Islam.
    Here is proof that he did convert to Islam. I have already told you this:

    http://www.quranandscience.com/nw-muslim-stories/209-maurice-bucaille-.html

    http://www.englishbaby.com/forum/LifeTalk/thread/279813

    http://www.islamicbulletin.com/newsletters/issue_6/embraced.aspx


    Wooow! And all written by completely impartial Muslims. It must be true.

    Please name me one belief from quran that is against scientific facts. You wont find one. Why?
    It is the most scientifially advance book in the world, as my link above proves.
    You people are just refusing to read scientific evidences.
    The list of beliefs which you gave here is not from the Quran.
    You are supposed to be a critical thinker. How can you make absurd statements.


    One verse from the Qur'an that's against scientific fact?

    [22:65]
    Did you not see that Allah has subjugated to you everything on the earth, and the ships that sail at sea with His command? And He holds the sky so as it cannot fall on the earth except with His permission. Surely Allah is Very-Kind to the people, Very-Merciful.

    [34:9]
    Have they not, then, looked to the sky and the earth that lies before them and behind them? If We so will, We would make the earth swallow them up, or cause pieces of the sky to fall upon them. Surely, in this there is a sign for a servant (of Allah) who turns to Him.

    [52:44]
    Even if they see a piece falling down from the sky, they would say, “It is a cumulated cloud.

    [40:64]
    Allah is the One who made for you the earth a place to live, and the sky a roof, and shaped you, and made your shapes so good - and provided you with a lot of good things. That is Allah, your Lord. So, Glorious is Allah, the Lord of the worlds.

    [52:5]
    and by the roof, raised high,

    The Qur'an simply repeats the conventional wisdom of the time that the sky was an actual solid structure that could fall or be broken apart.

     And as for your claim that those things don't appear in the Qur'an: I think you need to read your holy book again.
  • Re: Come back to Allah
     Reply #97 - May 04, 2010, 10:07 AM

    Tell you what Ahmad, I will post what I regard as a mistake in the Qur'an for you and you tell me if you can explain it.

    I am generally reluctant to do that, since the onus is on those who claim it is perfect to prove their claim - not on us to prove there are mistakes. (Lack of mistakes does not prove it is from God)

    But since you seem to be afraid to produce evidence to back up your claims, here is an example I mentioned in my video I posted a while back.

    Now, Science, Geography, Mechanics, Medicine etc... are not my subjects - but language and grammar and the Qur'an, are! They are the subjects I studied and specialised in.  So I do know what I'm talking about in this case.

    The verse is Verse 5:69

    إِنَّ الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا وَالَّذِينَ هَادُوا وَالصَّابِئُونَ وَالنَّصَارَى

    The mistake is the word الصَّابِئُونَ

    You see it is in the Nominative Case (الرفع) when it should be in the Accusative Case (النصب).

    It is a very basic rule of grammar that the particle إِنَّ makes the nouns that it is referring to Accusative Case (النصب).

    A simple example that you will find all over the Qur'an is: إِنَّ اللَّهَ The noun Allah (اللَّهَ)  has the Fatha ( َ)  at the end to denote it is in the Accusative Case, rather than the Damma ( ُ )   that would denote the Nominative Case.

    When it comes to plural nouns the Nominative case is denoted by a long "oona" vowel (ون)  and the Accusative Cases by a long "eena" vowel (ين).

    Here are some examples from the Qur'an:

    يَقُولُ الْمُنَافِقُونَ is in the Nominative

    إِنَّ الْمُنَافِقِينَ  is in the Accusative because it has إِنَّ

    As I say it is a simple and basic rule of grammar.

    Not only that, but two other verses that are almost identical have the correct Accusative case:

    إِنَّ الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا وَالَّذِينَ هَادُوا وَالصَّابِئِينَ وَالنَّصَارَى

    22:17

    إِنَّ الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا وَالَّذِينَ هَادُوا وَالنَّصَارَى وَالصَّابِئِينَ

    2:62

    It is clear to me Muhammad (or a scribe) just made a simple - and easy to make - error.

    All the great scholars of the past then had to rush to explain it away to preserve the integrity of what they believed was the "Perfect" word of God.

    Just as they did with all the other many anomalies in the Qur'an - coming up with convoluted explanations that were contrived and nonsensical.
  • Re: Come back to Allah
     Reply #98 - May 04, 2010, 10:08 AM

    Never heard about this in Islam, its a cultural thing afaik

    Mo married his daughter to her first cousin. He set a standard by doing this. Coupled with this, there is the verse from the Quran stating who you can marry.

  • Re: Come back to Allah
     Reply #99 - May 04, 2010, 10:26 AM

    I never said numbers of people converting to Islam proves it must be true. I said some scientists who have analysed the Quran have been convinced and therefore, they have converted to Islam. Islam is not a private matter. It is not a religion loike others. It is an ideology of life. Which is why it is gaining so many converts. It has beaten Marxism, Socialism, and all other isms.

    Soon in the near future, it is estimated that Islam will be the largest religion on earth.

    Why?

    Why are thousands of people a year in europe and america converting to it? You tell me.

    Why would intelligent people accept Allah if he was a false god?

    Why?

    Why would westerners become muslims if Islam was an evil religion?

    Come on, you tell me.

    It's called high birthrates. Ofcourse, some also predict Christianity will continue to be the largest religion.

    Christianity is currently the largest religion. So if being 'the largest religion' is such an important point, then why haven't you converted to Christianity? In the past other religions were the largest ones, Zoroastrianism was one of those. Does that mean they were true? Obviously, being the 'largest religion' means nothing.

    As for thousands of people converting to Islam, so what? Thousands also convert to Christianity. There are also muslims who converted to Christianity. People also convert to Buddhism, Sikhism, Hinduism, Pastafarianism, Scientology. Does that mean they all must be true? Simply because people are converting to them? I don't think so.

    When you consider that 75% of converts to Islam leave it again in a short time, then it is even more evidence that conversion to Islam means nothing:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8EC8-aVlrE

    On top of that, the punishment for apostasy makes many ex-muslims VERY reluctant to come out as apostates.

    Quote
    Please name me one belief from quran that is against scientific facts. You wont find one. Why?
    It is the most scientifially advance book in the world, as my link above proves.
    You people are just refusing to read scientific evidences.
    The list of beliefs which you gave here is not from the Quran.
    You are supposed to be a critical thinker. How can you make absurd statements.

    The embryology miracle in the Quran is incorrect. It is also plagiarised from the Greeks. I'd recommend this video which debunks some of the more well-known miracles in the Quran (including the embryology one):

    http://www.youtube.com/user/CEMBadmins#p/u/2/0XLg-SRGMNk
  • Re: Come back to Allah
     Reply #100 - May 04, 2010, 10:31 AM

    And Ahmad, you might like to see that nit-wit Zakir Naik's reply to exactly that error I just posted.

    I'd be interested to know if you found his reply convincing.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZAbPZ6J_cIA
  • Re: Come back to Allah
     Reply #101 - May 04, 2010, 10:33 AM

    There are scientific miracles in Hinduism? Like what?


    Yeah i was chatting with a Hindu, who told me that in his religion is the concept of many universes, which is the Parallel Universes that theoretical Physicists talk about. The theory is not finalized but he started believing it to be true already as the God Brahma created every God for a universe. To him this is a miracle just like the snake in the bible or the bacteria in the pigs meat in the quran.
  • Re: Come back to Allah
     Reply #102 - May 04, 2010, 10:37 AM

    Please do not make wrong assumptions about your Creator.


     Cheesy

    The unlived life is not worth examining.
  • Re: Come back to Allah
     Reply #103 - May 04, 2010, 10:45 AM

    They were not worth preserving. They were for sent for limited period and for limited people. Quran is for al times and for all people.
    It is worth preserving. That is why Allah said no one can alter His final book to mankind.


    Could you back up that claim that the holy books before the Qur'an became irrelevant by the time the Qur'an came round? Wouldn't I be right in assuming that the holy books before the Qur'an were more relevant to 7th century Arabia than the Qur'an is relevant to 21st century? I'm assuming that because, it would seem a lot more has changed from 7th century Arabia to 21st century globalism than has changed from the 1st centry to the 7th century. A lot of the text in Qur'an seems only useful to a 7th century man, not even a 7th century woman. I've heard a lot of Muslims admit that Islam is very much a man's religion. Don't you think God needs to reveal to us a new message that is relevant to the modern era where woman now play a much more vital role in the running of society?

    The unlived life is not worth examining.
  • Re: Come back to Allah
     Reply #104 - May 04, 2010, 10:51 AM

    Quote
    Why would intelligent people accept Allah if he was a false god?


    Why would so many more intelligent people reject Allah if he was a real god.

    You probably think it's because they haven't been shown the evidence yet. But that's exactly what we think about those people who still think Islam is the true religion. It seems that whenever I talk to Muslims about religion they learn a new perspective that they hadn't considered before. So let's not resort to this fruitless appeal to numbers argument.

    The unlived life is not worth examining.
  • Re: Come back to Allah
     Reply #105 - May 04, 2010, 11:00 AM

    Why are thousands of people a year in europe and america converting to it? You tell me.

    Why would intelligent people accept Allah if he was a false god?

    Why?

    Argumentum ad populum.

    EDIT:

    Each of us a failed state in stark relief against the backdrop of the perfect worlds we seek.
    Propagandhi - Failed States
  • Re: Come back to Allah
     Reply #106 - May 04, 2010, 11:02 AM

    You have left Allah once. You are not totally in grip of Satan yet. So make sure, you dont leave Allah again because second time Satan gets you forever.  

    You misunderstand. Satan doesn't have a grip on me, I have a grip on Satan. We had fun last night!  Cheesy
    The devil is a loser and he's my *****.  Wink
    He cannot get you first time.

    Quote
    All other sins are forgiveable. If you return to your Creator, He will love you and forgive everything you have done.

    I live on top of my creator. I never left the earth to begin with.  Smiley

    Oh and actually, Shirk is the only unforgivable sin.

    Out of all the things you could possibly get angry over, he sees worshipping pagan gods as an unforgiveable sin? I thought raping little 9 year old girls should be the unforgiveable sin.

    No matter how free and full of pleasure, its only a temporary life. No matter how long it may be, it will end one day.

    Indeed life is short, that is why I'm a hedonist. Though I've no interest in trying to earn an afterlife I have no reason to believe in.

    Why are thousands of people a year in europe and america converting to it? You tell me.

    Why would intelligent people accept Allah if he was a false god?

    Most people aren't intelligent enough not to believe in a god. Though no gods are true, does that make them all false? As they aren't true (I suppose what is meant by true is real), unless they're proven to be real.

    Quote
    Why would westerners become muslims if Islam was an evil religion?

    Most of them leave an evil religion for an evil religion. Though what does evil mean? What is evil? I just assume the term is a synonym for bad.

    Quote
    Please name me one belief from quran that is against scientific facts. You wont find one. Why?

    The quran tells you to believe in things that you don't have verifiable evidence for. That alone, the belief in Allah, or even Noah for that matter, is against scientific facts. Or the belief that humans had a creator is against scientific facts.  Simply put.

    Quote
    It is the most scientifially advance book in the world, as my link above proves.
    You people are just refusing to read scientific evidences.

    Definitely more advanced than Hawkings books. And definitely not full of common knowledge from Seleucid times.

    Quote
    but they have evidence that now proves that Quran cannot be written by a man. It must be from God. Please read the evidence they have presented. Hence Quran is perfect and Islam is the true way of life. I gave links above.  That book which I posted contains clear evidence that proves Quran can only come from God and one one else. I am not a blind follower. I use my brain and think for myself. I have read that book. It did have scientific and logical evidence which was clearly presented. If you read it , you will see it too.

    It didn't put forth any convincing arguements as to why. Then again, Allah does sound like a petty obsessive compulsive man with borderline personality disorder, as did Muhammad. The two are probably one.

    BTW, all the things from the earth being round, to primitive embryology were common knowledge among the the educated elite. Muhammad, being someone who could read and write, would've known about this stuff.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Q1Dw2MouEI

    It is not the way you live your life that is important, it is how well you enjoy it that matters.
  • Re: Come back to Allah
     Reply #107 - May 04, 2010, 11:07 AM

    @ Hassan,

    Zakir Naik provides an explanation as to why it says in the Qur'an that the people of Lut rejected the "messengerS". I guess it's passable. Do you think it is possible to come up with a similar explanation for the accusative/nominative case errors that you outlined on the previous page?

    The unlived life is not worth examining.
  • Re: Come back to Allah
     Reply #108 - May 04, 2010, 11:14 AM

    And Ahmad, you might like to see that nit-wit Zakir Naik's reply to exactly that error I just posted.

    I'd be interested to know if you found his reply convincing.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZAbPZ6J_cIA

    If I understand his point correctly he is basically saying that there is no standard Arabic grammar?
  • Re: Come back to Allah
     Reply #109 - May 04, 2010, 11:15 AM

    @ Hassan,

    Zakir Naik provides an explanation as to why it says in the Qur'an that the people of Lut rejected the "messengerS". I guess it's passable. Do you think it is possible to come up with a similar explanation for the accusative/nominative case errors that you outlined on the previous page?


    Nope, that is a completely different issue.
  • Re: Come back to Allah
     Reply #110 - May 04, 2010, 11:18 AM

    If I understand his point correctly he is basically saying that there is no standard Arabic grammar?


    He's saying that Arabic grammar is based on the Qur'an. The rules of grammar were derived from the Qur'an. So these rules cannot find fault with it since they are based on it.

    Nice way of avoiding the question.

    Though it means there is no objective standard by which the Qur'an can be measured by. In which case one cannot claim it to be free from grammatical error - since that claim cannot be objectively tested.
  • Re: Come back to Allah
     Reply #111 - May 04, 2010, 11:21 AM

    The error I posted is grammar mistake.

    It's as though I said something like: "There are many peoples coming to the show today."
  • Re: Come back to Allah
     Reply #112 - May 04, 2010, 11:29 AM

    He's saying that Arabic grammar is based on the Qur'an. The rules of grammar were derived from the Qur'an. So these rules cannot find fault with it since they are based on it.

    Nice way of avoiding the question.

    Though it means there is no objective standard by which the Qur'an can be measured by. In which case one cannot claim it to be free from grammatical error - since that claim cannot be objectively tested.

    I agree with all of the above.

    But if Arabic is based on Quran and there are inconsistencies  in Quran as far as grammar goes (you shoved this to be the case in one of your previous posts) doesn't that mean that there is no standard Arabic grammar as a result?
    For example according to Quran one apparently could sometimes simply replace nominative with accusative or even use different grammatical rules as one sees fit. Resulting in utter chaos as far as Arabic grammar goes.

    Surely that's not the case?
  • Re: Come back to Allah
     Reply #113 - May 04, 2010, 11:33 AM

    He's saying that Arabic grammar is based on the Qur'an. The rules of grammar were derived from the Qur'an. So these rules cannot find fault with it since they are based on it.


    I heard that's not actually true. That is, that there were pre-Islamic Arabic grammarians who formalised, to some extent, Arabic grammar.
  • Re: Come back to Allah
     Reply #114 - May 04, 2010, 11:36 AM

    I agree with all of the above.

    But if Arabic is based on Quran and there are inconsistencies  in Quran as far as grammar goes (you shoved this to be the case in one of your previous posts) doesn't that mean that there is no standard Arabic grammar as a result?
    For example according to Quran one apparently could sometimes simply replace nominative with accusative or even use different grammatical rules as one sees fit. Resulting in utter chaos as far as Arabic grammar goes.


    Yeah. If Arabic grammar is built on the Qur'an, and the Qur'an permits conflating accusative and nominative spellings, then how is it that standard Arabic grammar does not permit such a thing?

    In that case, it's clear that the Qur'an is not the origin of Arabic grammar.
  • Re: Come back to Allah
     Reply #115 - May 04, 2010, 12:04 PM

    Please name me one belief from quran that is against scientific facts. You wont find one. Why?
    It is the most scientifially advance book in the world, as my link above proves.
    You people are just refusing to read scientific evidences.
    The list of beliefs which you gave here is not from the Quran.
    You are supposed to be a critical thinker. How can you make absurd statements.


    Oh come on Ahmed,
    You missed my point completely.  If you make a claim, you must produce specific "positive" evidence for that claim.  I gave the example of jinns.  It's a very easy one from my list.  Why can't Muslims produce proper scientific evidence for their existence?  Evidence that other scientists can scrutinise?  Scientists are always eager to understand more about the world.

    And remember "extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence."
    I know what you might say so I will address it as follows: I'm sorry, there is no such thing as supernatural.  Because if you believe in supernatural claims, then you must not reject supernatural claims that other religions/cults claim.  They too will say things like "it's beyond the scope of science," and it would be hypocritical for you to disbelieve in them.

    Furthermore, it looks like you are a 'Quran-only' Muslim (i.e. you only follow the Quran and not hadith/sunnah), because you reject many mainstream beliefs and rulings.  I wish all Muslims followed this sect of Islam, because it would make the world a safer place!  But sadly, you are a tiny minority.  I presume you've watched the head of the Association of Muslims Schools on YouTube defend the apostasy ruling when asked repeatedly by Richard Dawkins on The Big Questions.  So even he is not prepared to abandon that aspect of Islam.  Can you tell us which of the beliefs I listed you hold, so I know what to aim at!  It's a little frustrating when Muslims seem to be playing hide the ball.  They call themselves Muslims and step forward to defend Islam, but when pressed, they deny believing the ugly/absurd aspects and follow only a subset of what the majority of Muslims follow.

    Also, you say "We should never fall for propaganda and hatred."  Then why is the Quran full of verses condemning disbelievers?  And why do Muslims hate jews and homosexuals so much?

    I will post the Michael Shermer "Baloney Detection Kit" video here just in case you haven't watched it.  It seems some people can't understand what science considers good evidence.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eUB4j0n2UDU

    "Many people would sooner die than think; In fact, they do so." -- Bertrand Russell

    Baloney Detection Kit
  • Re: Come back to Allah
     Reply #116 - May 04, 2010, 12:16 PM

    Why are thousands of people a year in europe and america converting to it? You tell me.

    Why would intelligent people accept Allah if he was a false god?


    Thousands of Muslims and Muslim converts leave Islam every year in Europe and America. Because they realise exactly what it is.

    This despite the fact that Islam mandates murder for those who leave it (hey what a great religion! It means 'peace', right  Huh?)

    But most importantly, BILLIONS of people from every other religion or of no religion at all reject and dislike Islam.

    That means your numbers are OUTNUMBERED and going by your silly, pathetic numbers game - you lose.

    Do you understand this point?

    Islam loses by your own methodology of proof  Afro


    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Come back to Allah
     Reply #117 - May 04, 2010, 12:43 PM

    I agree with all of the above.

    But if Arabic is based on Quran and there are inconsistencies  in Quran as far as grammar goes (you shoved this to be the case in one of your previous posts) doesn't that mean that there is no standard Arabic grammar as a result?
    For example according to Quran one apparently could sometimes simply replace nominative with accusative or even use different grammatical rules as one sees fit. Resulting in utter chaos as far as Arabic grammar goes.

    Surely that's not the case?


    Well the Qur'an set the standard so when the Qur'an shows inconsistencies then they are accepted as an acceptable variation of grammar, but when other works (post Qur'an) show inconsistencies then it is regarded as a mistake. Grammar and all other literature has come to be measured by the Qur'an. That's the effect the Qur'an had on Arabic literature and culture.

    But one can put a strong case that the Qur'an should not be regarded as year zero for Arabic since there was a great deal of Arabic literature in the form of poetry and doggrel verses pre-Islam - as well as the fact that it was a living language for centuries before.

    The problem is that there was no standardised Arabic grammar before Islam and so what the grammarians did after Islam (and they were all of course Muslims now - and believed in the perfect nature of the Qur'an) was to build Arabic grammar around the Qur'an. So when they found an anomaly they would concoct some rule that would accommodate it, whether by making some far-fetched analogy with a strange wording in a pre-Islamic poem or just plain making up rehetorical and stylistic licenses that have no basis in anything other than the Qur'an used it and so it must be the epitome of style and beauty.

    The example I give is one I like to show, however because the explanation given for it is clearly bullshit. Zamakhshari (one of the great scholars of language and grammar) tries to explain it by arguing that the word "Sabi'oon" is the beginning of a new sentence and so is not grammatically related to the particle  "Inna" - sheer nonsense - particularly when exactly the same sentence appears in another verse with it in the Accusative - which he would argue was now linked grammatically to "inna"!

    Totally arbitrary - and clearly just an attempt to explain a 'mistake' that could not possibly be a mistake - since God doesn't make mistakes.

    This is the problem of looking at things through the eyes of faith. And I know how that clouds the mind, since I've been there and done it!
  • Re: Come back to Allah
     Reply #118 - May 04, 2010, 12:47 PM

    I heard that's not actually true. That is, that there were pre-Islamic Arabic grammarians who formalised, to some extent, Arabic grammar.


    There was certainly pre-Islamic literature, but no pre-Islamic written grammar.
  • Re: Come back to Allah
     Reply #119 - May 04, 2010, 12:58 PM

    Yes  Come Back to Allah  .. Go Back to That Indian Guy Zakir Naik

    http://www.desivideonetwork.com/view/x73y1lkbv/white-lady-accepts-islam-dubai-zakir-naik-event-2009-son-of-god-part-1/


    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
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