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Theme Changer

 Topic: Pakistan - Taliban - Shariah Deal

 (Read 19118 times)
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  • Re: Pakistan - Taliban - Shariah Deal
     Reply #90 - April 20, 2009, 07:38 PM

    Quote from: Arab-Wannabe
    What I said is that the rise of Islamism is directly attributable to the policies of the cold war.

    In Turkey, the actual surge in Islamism was after the wrapping up of the Cold War, starting with Necmettin Erbakan and his fellow thugs. But even before the Cold War, the tensions between reactionary Muslims and secular revolutionaries did exist in Turkey. It is nothing but a childish fantasy to believe that political Islam emerged during the Cold War era, with no antecedents whatsoever. What is the aim of al-Qaeda? To establish a global caliphate. This sense of warped nostalgia urges them to return to the roots of Islam, which is violent imperialism and terror.

    If Islam did not exist, there would be no Islamic movement. Had Islam been a peaceful and tolerant religion, there wouldn't be so much intolerance and xenophobia in the Islamic world. A religion like Buddhism could have never begotten an imperialistic, totalitarian ideology like Islamism.

    Then again, the line between traditional Islam and contemporary Islamism is often very blurry. It is certainly no surprise that fanatical Muslims are the natural allies of militant Islamic groups, providing financial aid and moral support, and sometimes manpower as well. Militant Islamic organisations like the Turkish Hezbollah, who were involved in the assassination of left-wing and atheist intellectuals, recruited their soldiers from amongst religious Muslims. No surprise there.

    Islam: where idiots meet terrorists.
  • Re: Pakistan - Taliban - Shariah Deal
     Reply #91 - April 20, 2009, 07:57 PM

    Quote from: Arab-Wannabe
    What I said is that the rise of Islamism is directly attributable to the policies of the cold war.

    In Turkey, the actual surge in Islamism was after the wrapping up of the Cold War, starting with Necmettin Erbakan and his fellow thugs. But even before the Cold War, the tensions between reactionary Muslims and secular revolutionaries did exist in Turkey. It is nothing but a childish fantasy to believe that political Islam emerged during the Cold War era, with no antecedents whatsoever.


    Not emerged, these fringe groups have always existed and were always suppressed. Their rise to preeminence (which necessitated an awful lot of funding, an invastion by a superpower and a secure sanctuary to train thousands of like-minded militants etc.).

    They used to be nothing more than proxies used by various countries to advance specific agendas (strategic depth, bleeding the soviets, etc.).

    The emergence of the saudi ikhwan predates the cold war for example. Their extremism is theirs alone (and wahhabs) but they would have never conquered the Arabian peninsula without the alliance with Saud (who later massacred them all because they were just too insane).

    "By the One in Whose Hand my soul is, were you not to commit sins, Allah would replace you with a people who would commit sins and then seek forgiveness from Allah; and Allah would forgive them." [Saheeh Muslim]

    "Wherever you are, death will find you, Even in the looming tower."
    - Quran 4:78
  • Re: Pakistan - Taliban - Shariah Deal
     Reply #92 - April 21, 2009, 03:18 AM

    Well thats different, I never claimed that certain passages or sayings cannot be used as an ideological basis for waging war etc..

    What I said is that the rise of Islamism is directly attributable to the policies of the cold war. What we're seeing now is a direct result of these policies (as well as a host of other factors) and it has taken a life of its own. Even now, it cannot survive without some form of state sponsorship. Even in the 1990s when the coffers were overflowing, it couldnt take power anywhere in the world except in Afghanistan with the help of a state.

    What I oppose is the reductionism so close to your heart which naturally leads people to say things like "the islamic conquests were the most genocidal and bloody"....without evidence because it must have been so.  Conversely, I dont believe in looking at phenomena in isolation, context for one is very important.


    Context is certainly important, in any phenomena, in any situation, but so are the writings leading to the rise of that violence-if the violence can be attributed to certain writings.

    Take the Mein Kampf's diatribe against Jews, in a Germany of another era like today, it might not have inspired genocidal violence against Jews, a host of factors like the Christian Church's millennia of anti Semitism, Martin Luther's "The Jews & their Lies," Germany's economic troubles & the sanctions imposed on it after the World War 1 were all decisive factors-but that does nothing whatsoever to exonerate the Mein Kampf, nor does it excuse Hitler's conduct to claim that Alexander the Great was more genocidal.

    Ditto with Islamism, in many countries-dictators are trying to keep Islamists suppressed-like in Algeria or Egypt, in other Islamists weild power like Iran & leftists or liberals are trying to overthrow them-or some combination of these two. Its foolish to look at every other minor or major causative factor, ignoring the role of the Islamic faith & its founder & role model Prophet Muhammad's conduct in all these.

    World renowned historian Will Durant"...the Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex order and freedom can at any moment be overthrown..."
  • Re: Pakistan - Taliban - Shariah Deal
     Reply #93 - April 23, 2009, 06:09 PM

    ISLAMABAD, Pakistan ? Pushing deeper into Pakistan, Taliban militants have established effective control of a strategically important district just 70 miles from the capital, Islamabad, officials and residents said Wednesday.
     
    The fall of the district, Buner, did not mean that the Taliban could imminently threaten Islamabad. But it was another indication of the gathering strength of the insurgency and it raised new alarm about the ability of the government to fend off an unrelenting Taliban advance toward the heart of Pakistan.

    Buner, home to about one million people, is a gateway to a major Pakistani city, Mardan, the second largest in North-West Frontier Province, after Peshawar.

    ?They take over Buner, then they roll into Mardan and that?s the end of the game,? a senior law enforcement official in North-West Frontier Province said. He asked that his name be withheld because was not authorized to speak to the news media.

    The Taliban had pushed into the district from the neighboring Swat Valley, where the Pakistani Army agreed to a truce in mid-February and remains in its barracks.

    On Wednesday heavily armed Taliban militants were patrolling villages, and the local police had retreated to their station houses in much of Buner, officials and residents said.

    The staff members of local nongovernmental organizations have been ordered to leave, and their offices have been looted, they said. Pakistani television news channels showed Taliban fighters triumphantly carrying office equipment out of the offices of the organizations.

    ?They are everywhere,? one resident of Daggar, Buner?s main city, said by telephone. ?There is no resistance.?

    The Taliban advance has been building for weeks, with the assistance of sympathizers and even a local government official who was appointed on the recommendation of the Taliban, the senior official said.

    It also comes 10 days after the government of President Asif Ali Zardari agreed to the imposition of Islamic law, or Shariah, in Swat, as part of the deal with the Taliban.

    A local politician, Jamsher Khan, said that people were initially determined to resist the Taliban in Buner, but that they were discouraged by the deal the government struck with the Taliban in Swat.

    ?We felt stronger as long we thought the government was with us,? he said by telephone, ?but when the government showed weakness, we too stopped offering resistance to the Taliban.?

    On Wednesday, Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton said she was concerned that Pakistan?s government was making too many concessions to the Taliban, emboldening the militants and allowing them to spread by giving in to their demands.

    ?I think that the Pakistani government is basically abdicating to the Taliban and to the extremists,? Mrs. Clinton told the House Foreign Affairs Committee on Capitol Hill.

    She added that the deterioration of security in nuclear-armed Pakistan ?poses a mortal threat to the security and safety of our country and the world.?

    A senior American official said Mrs. Clinton?s remarks were prompted in part by news of the Taliban takeover in Buner. The officials said that the further erosion of government authority in an area so close to the capital ought to stir concern not only in Pakistan but also among influential Pakistanis abroad.

    The chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, Adm. Mike Mullen, arrived in Islamabad on Wednesday for the second time in two weeks, reflecting the sense of alarm in the Obama administration. He was scheduled to meet with Pakistan?s top military and intelligence commanders.

    The takeover of Buner (pronounced boo-NAIR) is particularly significant because the people there have tried in the past year to stand up to the Taliban by establishing small private armies to fight the militants. Last year when the militants encroached into Buner, killing policemen, the local people fought back and forced the militants out.

    But with a beachhead in neighboring Swat, and a number of training camps for fresh recruits, the Taliban were able to carry out what amounted to an invasion of Buner.

    ?The training camps will provide waves of men coming into Buner,? the senior law enforcement official said.

    The Taliban expansion into Buner has begun to raise alarm among the senior ranks of the Pakistani Army, said a Western official who was familiar with the Pakistani military.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/23/world/asia/23buner.html?_r=2&pagewanted=1&hp

    Pakistan have sent troops, but it seems to be too little too late.

    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Re: Pakistan - Taliban - Shariah Deal
     Reply #94 - April 23, 2009, 06:43 PM

    Quote
    Pakistan have sent troops, but it seems to be too little too late.

     

    A city of half a million is being invaded by hordes of militants and they send 300 guys in to help protect the government buildings that have not been already sacked. This means they will baracade themselves along with whatever forces remained in their barracks and hope that they can get supplies through to hold out. The Taliban in the meantime will consolodate their gains and plan their next advance.

    Pakistan does not have the will to resist. They're finished. We should cut all funding off. Maybe give them something if they are willing to hand over the nukes. Otherwise we should be looking for ways to take the nukes out before the Taliban get their hands on them.
     
     
     

    My style is impetuous, my defense is impregnable and I'm just ferocious. I want your heart. I want to eat your children. Praise be to Allah." -- Mike Tyson
  • Re: Pakistan - Taliban - Shariah Deal
     Reply #95 - April 23, 2009, 07:01 PM

    This is serious business now. It is looking very much like Pakistan is on the verge of collapsing if something isn't done immediately. Having a nuclear-armed Taliban state right next door to India (which also has nukes, of course) would be a recipe for disaster.

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Pakistan - Taliban - Shariah Deal
     Reply #96 - April 23, 2009, 07:23 PM

    Pakistan would be obliterated if it ever used its nukes, or even seriously threatened to.  The question is, are the Taliban sane enough to know or care?

    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Re: Pakistan - Taliban - Shariah Deal
     Reply #97 - April 23, 2009, 07:32 PM

    They aren't sane. If they were they wouldn't be in the Taliban.

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Pakistan - Taliban - Shariah Deal
     Reply #98 - April 24, 2009, 12:22 AM

    To be honest, if the Taliban get a hold of nukes.....

    This:  Cat fight
    may well fast become this:  Flaming mad

    Makes me just want to say Fuck it, I'm heading off to Samoa  Chilling
    and saying, "good luck humanity, If jesus dont come back, dont say I didnt warn ya"


    I mean, hell, this is bad.


    The foundation of superstition is ignorance, the
    superstructure is faith and the dome is a vain hope. Superstition
    is the child of ignorance and the mother of misery.
    -Robert G. Ingersoll (1898)

     "Do time ninjas have this ability?" "Yeah. Only they stay silent and aren't douchebags."  -Ibl
  • Taliban 're-enters' Buner
     Reply #99 - April 24, 2009, 06:28 PM

    http://english.aljazeera.net/news/asia/2009/04/200942417947485300.html

    Turns out it wasn't a withdrawal after all.
    They probably just left something back home.

    This is why I always recommend making a list before going on any trip.

    BSmileyB

    My style is impetuous, my defense is impregnable and I'm just ferocious. I want your heart. I want to eat your children. Praise be to Allah." -- Mike Tyson
  • Re: Pakistan - Taliban - Shariah Deal
     Reply #100 - April 24, 2009, 07:56 PM

    More cheerful news from Pakistan...

    Friday, April 24, 2009

    The death penalty is now mandatory for blasphemy, under Article 295-C of the Pakistan Penal Code. The option of a life term for a person convicted on the charge has been taken away. This has come about purely on the basis of a technicality. The Supreme Court's Shariat Appellate Bench dismissed an appeal against a 1990 Federal Shariat Court ruling making death compulsory ? because there was no prosecution by the appellant. But the results of this verdict are potentially dire. The fact is that for any person accused of blasphemy, the possibility of obtaining a fair hearing have over the past decade or so become slimmer and slimmer with each passing year. Each time an accusation is made, an environment of hostility is quickly whipped up ? often by extremist forces ? creating a highly charged atmosphere. Neither the police nor the lower judiciary is able to function independently or without bias, and courts at the district and sessions level repeatedly pass the maximum sentence ? if only because judges fear for their lives.

    To make the situation still worse is the fact that the blasphemy law has been abused more and more often. It is ironic that during the past five years, Muslims have emerged as its main victims ? even though it is inconceivable that any Muslim would deliberately insult the Holy Quran or the Holy Prophet Muhammad (PBUH). All too often they have been accused on the basis of petty disputes ? a bid to settle a business dispute; a plot to grab property or simply to seek revenge for some trivial act. The insane have too been victims. In this situation the change in the provisions of Article 295-C are alarming and should serve as another reminder of the need to amend this flawed piece of legislation.

    http://www.thenews.com.pk/print1.asp?id=173977

    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Re: Pakistan - Taliban - Shariah Deal
     Reply #101 - November 12, 2011, 02:08 AM

    contrary to what most muslims believe  islam does allow forced conversions according to this sahih (authentic) hadith check it out

    Bukhari :: Book 5 :: Volume 59 :: Hadith 643

    Narrated Qais:

    Jarir said "Allah's Apostle said to me, "Won't you relieve me from Dhul-Khalasa?" I replied, "Yes, (I will relieve you)." So I proceeded along with one-hundred and fifty cavalry from Ahmas tribe who were skillful in riding horses. I used not to sit firm over horses, so I informed the Prophet of that, and he stroke my chest with his hand till I saw the marks of his hand over my chest and he said, O Allah! Make him firm and one who guides others and is guided (on the right path).' Since then I have never fallen from a horse. Dhul-l--Khulasa was a house in Yemen belonging to the tribe of Khatham and Bajaila, and in it there were idols which were worshipped, and it was called Al-Ka'ba." Jarir went there, burnt it with fire and dismantled it. When Jarir reached Yemen, there was a man who used to foretell and give good omens by casting arrows of divination. Someone said to him. "The messenger of Allah's Apostle is present here and if he should get hold of you, he would chop off your neck." One day while he was using them (i.e. arrows of divination), Jarir stopped there and said to him, "Break them (i.e. the arrows) and testify that None has the right to be worshipped except Allah, or else I will chop off your neck." So the man broke those arrows and testified that none has the right to be worshipped except Allah. Then Jarir sent a man called Abu Artata from the tribe of Ahmas to the Prophet to convey the good news (of destroying Dhu-l-Khalasa). So when the messenger reached the Prophet, he said, "O Allah's Apostle! By Him Who sent you with the Truth, I did not leave it till it was like a scabby camel." Then the Prophet blessed the horses of Ahmas and their men five times.

    Source:http://www.quranexplorer.com/Hadith/English/Hadith/bukhari/005.059.643.html
  • Re: Pakistan - Taliban - Shariah Deal
     Reply #102 - November 13, 2011, 04:37 AM

    Probably going to get worst before it gets better. Is it just me or are many ex-Muslims seem to be from Pakistani? Pakistan is going to have such a brain drain and it will be self-implode







     

    ***~Church is where bad people go to hide~***
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