Skip navigation
Sidebar -

Advanced search options →

Welcome

Welcome to CEMB forum.
Please login or register. Did you miss your activation email?

Donations

Help keep the Forum going!
Click on Kitty to donate:

Kitty is lost

Recent Posts


Lights on the way
by akay
Today at 09:54 AM

New Britain
October 16, 2025, 09:55 PM

Qur'anic studies today
by zeca
October 15, 2025, 10:20 AM

Do humans have needed kno...
October 15, 2025, 08:57 AM

اضواء على الطريق ....... ...
by akay
October 14, 2025, 11:52 AM

Random Islamic History Po...
by zeca
October 07, 2025, 09:50 AM

What's happened to the fo...
October 06, 2025, 11:58 AM

Kashmir endgame
October 04, 2025, 10:05 PM

الحبيب من يشبه اكثر؟؟؟
by akay
September 24, 2025, 11:55 AM

Muslim grooming gangs sti...
September 20, 2025, 07:39 PM

Jesus mythicism
by zeca
September 13, 2025, 10:59 PM

Orientalism - Edward Said
by zeca
August 22, 2025, 07:41 AM

Theme Changer

 Topic: Pakistan - Taliban - Shariah Deal

 (Read 19191 times)
  • 12 3 4 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Pakistan - Taliban - Shariah Deal
     OP - February 16, 2009, 06:10 PM

    I expect the beheadings fest to begin soon enough.

    http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/asiapcf/02/16/pakistan.taliban.sharia.law/index.html?iref=hpmostpop

  • Re: Pakistan - Taliban - Shariah Deal
     Reply #1 - February 17, 2009, 04:10 PM

    And all the women to dissappear into their closets, erm, I mean houses.

    Jesus!  This pisses me off.  Why does the Pakistan army/government have to be a bunch of chickens when it comes to these clowns?

    Now they want to impose Shariah across the entire country...  Ugh!  Imagine trying to wear a burqa in Karachi in the middle of July!  finmad

    Not to mention it would mean the death of Pakistani qawwali music.  wacko

    Atheism is a non-prophet organization.

    The sleeper has awakened -  Dune

    Give a man a fish, and you'll feed him for a day Give him a religion, and he'll starve to death while praying for a fish!
  • Re: Pakistan - Taliban - Shariah Deal
     Reply #2 - February 17, 2009, 04:56 PM

    Fast forward 5 or 10 years and the West will have to go in and deal with the Taliban within Pakistan and then of course get criticised for helping out the Pakistanis.

  • Re: Pakistan - Taliban - Shariah Deal
     Reply #3 - February 17, 2009, 05:27 PM

    that's pretty much the beginning of the end of pakistan. again.  Tongue

    TRASH - The Rationalist Apostate Society for Humanity!

    Take a look for a few laughs and thoughtful discussions with a wide range of audience - fellow apostates, Muslims, sufis, non-Muslims, Christians, etc

    http://thetrashbin.wordpress.com
  • Re: Pakistan - Taliban - Shariah Deal
     Reply #4 - February 17, 2009, 05:30 PM

    Depressing.

    I was not blessed with the ability to have blind faith. I cant beleive something just because someone says its true.
  • Re: Pakistan - Taliban - Shariah Deal
     Reply #5 - February 17, 2009, 07:58 PM

    Sad,

    I know Pakistanis from Islamabad, Lahore etc. I have found most them pretty liberal. Ironically British Pakistanis seem far more practising and sometimes extreme.
  • Re: Pakistan - Taliban - Shariah Deal
     Reply #6 - February 17, 2009, 09:01 PM

    Its a minority thing, it happens everywhere e.g. the Brits become more British when abroad

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Pakistan - Taliban - Shariah Deal
     Reply #7 - February 25, 2009, 12:11 PM

    OK - I have seen everybody has started all the doom mongering so I wanted to clear some things up. There is absolutely no way at all that Sharia law could be implemented in Pakistan - the people just would not allow it. There is no way Punjabis or Sindhis would accept Sharia law. The Pakistani government have keeled over in the NWFP to appease the taliban (although I reckon they are just thugs and have not got much interest in religion; more interest in controlling the region and the people) because the NWFP is too difficult to control. Anyway, I don't think we should fear Sharia law in the rest of Pakistan.

    Religion - The hot potato that looked delicious but ended up burning your mouth!

    Knock your head on the ground, don't be miserly in your prayers, listen to your Sidi Sheikh, Allahu Akbar! - Lounes Matoub
  • Re: Pakistan - Taliban - Shariah Deal
     Reply #8 - February 25, 2009, 12:13 PM

    OK - I have seen everybody has started all the doom mongering so I wanted to clear some things up. There is absolutely no way at all that Sharia law could be implemented in Pakistan - the people just would not allow it. There is no way Punjabis or Sindhis would accept Sharia law. The Pakistani government have keeled over in the NWFP to appease the taliban (although I reckon they are just thugs and have not got much interest in religion; more interest in controlling the region and the people) because the NWFP is too difficult to control. Anyway, I don't think we should fear Sharia law in the rest of Pakistan.

    Not wanting it is one thing, being forced with it is an entirely different matter. Lets hope Pakistan can pull itself together before the terrorists get out of control.
  • Re: Pakistan - Taliban - Shariah Deal
     Reply #9 - February 25, 2009, 12:22 PM

    OK - I have seen everybody has started all the doom mongering so I wanted to clear some things up. There is absolutely no way at all that Sharia law could be implemented in Pakistan - the people just would not allow it. There is no way Punjabis or Sindhis would accept Sharia law. The Pakistani government have keeled over in the NWFP to appease the taliban (although I reckon they are just thugs and have not got much interest in religion; more interest in controlling the region and the people) because the NWFP is too difficult to control. Anyway, I don't think we should fear Sharia law in the rest of Pakistan.

    Not wanting it is one thing, being forced with it is an entirely different matter. Lets hope Pakistan can pull itself together before the terrorists get out of control.


    I don't even think it is possible for the rest of Pakistan to be forced into it. For a regime like that to take place, it has to be initially popular - e.g Nazi Germany, Iranian revolution. But the people wouldn't accept it. And although not very popular, the Pakistani government have got very good control in the rest of Pakistan, and the Taliban would not be able to fight a war with the Pakistani Army in the rest of Pakistan.

    Religion - The hot potato that looked delicious but ended up burning your mouth!

    Knock your head on the ground, don't be miserly in your prayers, listen to your Sidi Sheikh, Allahu Akbar! - Lounes Matoub
  • Re: Pakistan - Taliban - Shariah Deal
     Reply #10 - February 25, 2009, 01:36 PM

    Sad,

    I know Pakistanis from Islamabad, Lahore etc. I have found most them pretty liberal. Ironically British Pakistanis seem far more practising and sometimes extreme.


    Even my friend from a rural village in Southern Punjab is quite liberal, of course he has been living in the United States for nearly two decades now but I have noticed the same thing as Calm when it comes to British Pakistanis.

    Atheism is a non-prophet organization.

    The sleeper has awakened -  Dune

    Give a man a fish, and you'll feed him for a day Give him a religion, and he'll starve to death while praying for a fish!
  • Re: Pakistan - Taliban - Shariah Deal
     Reply #11 - February 25, 2009, 02:02 PM

    Luckily I'm quite liberal for a British Paki Tongue
  • Re: Pakistan - Taliban - Shariah Deal
     Reply #12 - February 25, 2009, 02:34 PM

    My aunt's (the one that abused my cousin) in laws who live in Peshawar apparently got kidnapped, as their house got raided....one of their servants was killed...dunno the details but they managed to escape and flee to Rabwah.

    Blah, the situation in Pakistan is shit.
  • Re: Pakistan - Taliban - Shariah Deal
     Reply #13 - February 25, 2009, 03:09 PM

    And all the women to dissappear into their closets, erm, I mean houses.

    Jesus!  This pisses me off.  Why does the Pakistan army/government have to be a bunch of chickens when it comes to these clowns?

    Now they want to impose Shariah across the entire country...  Ugh!  Imagine trying to wear a burqa in Karachi in the middle of July!  finmad

    Not to mention it would mean the death of Pakistani qawwali music.  wacko


    It's all fucked up.

    These ultra right wing religious Khmer Rouge types are being accommodated because of a fear that any retaliation against them will swell their ranks due to reflexive Muslim solidarity.

    The truth of the matter is this is a civil war going on in the Muslim world and there are plenty of Leftist/secularist/moderate Muslims who want the Taliban eradicated.

    The worst thing is the only Muslim secular/Leftists involved are either being shunned by the pro American Pakistani powers that be, murdered by the pro Taliban Pakistani powers treated with contempt by the conservative Western military or openly opposed by their Western Leftist comrades.

    The good people are being fucked by all perties involved....

    It's identity politics and religious accommodation queering the pitch once again............

      Cry
  • Re: Pakistan - Taliban - Shariah Deal
     Reply #14 - March 05, 2009, 10:29 AM

    OK - I have seen everybody has started all the doom mongering so I wanted to clear some things up. There is absolutely no way at all that Sharia law could be implemented in Pakistan - the people just would not allow it. There is no way Punjabis or Sindhis would accept Sharia law. The Pakistani government have keeled over in the NWFP to appease the taliban (although I reckon they are just thugs and have not got much interest in religion; more interest in controlling the region and the people) because the NWFP is too difficult to control. Anyway, I don't think we should fear Sharia law in the rest of Pakistan.


    An informed opinion and you are absolutely right.

    This deal is not capitulation, it is an effort to split the Pak Taliban from AQ (which is why the State Dept. gave its blessing). At this point, what is needed is a stable Afghanistan (which cannot happen without a stable Pakistan); stability which can only be achieved if the Pashtun majority feel they have a strong voice in Afghan politics. To pacify the Pashtuns the US and Pak will agree to some form of shariah (tribal-shariah hybrid) in FATA and Afghanistan (the entire pashtun belt). In exchange, AQ and other foreigners will have to leave FATA. Once AQ leaves, the area will stabilize itself and we can get down to business (turkmen pipeline to Karachi etc.)

    "By the One in Whose Hand my soul is, were you not to commit sins, Allah would replace you with a people who would commit sins and then seek forgiveness from Allah; and Allah would forgive them." [Saheeh Muslim]

    "Wherever you are, death will find you, Even in the looming tower."
    - Quran 4:78
  • Re: Pakistan - Taliban - Shariah Deal
     Reply #15 - March 05, 2009, 12:39 PM

    The rest of Pakistan might be more liberal & willing to fight Shariah, I still doubt how far they'd fight.

    Remember this Pakistan, from the time of Zia ul Haq, till 2006 required four male witnesses for rape... The majority of women prisoners in Pakistani jails were raped women. Thats' sad, & extreme.  no A people who tolerated this for 30 years, & protested when this law was changed might tolerate Shariah as well.

    World renowned historian Will Durant"...the Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex order and freedom can at any moment be overthrown..."
  • Re: Pakistan - Taliban - Shariah Deal
     Reply #16 - March 05, 2009, 04:26 PM

    The rest of Pakistan might be more liberal & willing to fight Shariah, I still doubt how far they'd fight.

    Remember this Pakistan, from the time of Zia ul Haq, till 2006 required four male witnesses for rape... The majority of women prisoners in Pakistani jails were raped women. Thats' sad, & extreme.  no A people who tolerated this for 30 years, & protested when this law was changed might tolerate Shariah as well.

    Surprisingly little numbers of Muslims show up to actually oppose Shariah at the critical hour, even if they disagree with Islamic law. It has something to do with the relentless violence of Islamists, I think. Very few people want to suffer torture, maiming, or death for ideological views.

    Islam: where idiots meet terrorists.
  • Re: Pakistan - Taliban - Shariah Deal
     Reply #17 - March 05, 2009, 04:40 PM

    Sometimes strong evil requires equally strong opposition. Thats' the only cure- you won't hear Kazakhstanis wanting Shariah. I am not a Marxist but that could be a cure.

    For instance, I won't want Marxism in Sweden today, but in Europe in the witch hunt era witch... Marxism would immediately cure the malaise, I don't know a single Marxist who's honor killed, killed a witch or institutionalised wife beating.

    Same with Islamists in some nations, an Afghanistan would infinitely better becoming a Commie nation.

    World renowned historian Will Durant"...the Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex order and freedom can at any moment be overthrown..."
  • Re: Pakistan - Taliban - Shariah Deal
     Reply #18 - March 05, 2009, 04:50 PM

    Sometimes strong evil requires equally strong opposition. Thats' the only cure- you won't hear Kazakhstanis wanting Shariah. I am not a Marxist but that could be a cure.

    For instance, I won't want Marxism in Sweden today, but in Europe in the witch hunt era witch... Marxism would immediately cure the malaise, I don't know a single Marxist who's honor killed, killed a witch or institutionalised wife beating.

    Same with Islamists in some nations, an Afghanistan would infinitely better becoming a Commie nation.

    I kinda agree. Even though I dislike Marxism, I regret that Turkey didn't fall into the Bolshevik camp instead of NATO. Communism would have collapsed anyway, and we would have been purged of Islam. But... communists come with their own baggage of crimes against humanity.

    Anyway, Marxism is of course better than any kind of Islamic theocracy, but I still prefer a free market and individual rights.

    Islam: where idiots meet terrorists.
  • Re: Pakistan - Taliban - Shariah Deal
     Reply #19 - March 05, 2009, 04:53 PM

    Quote
    Same with Islamists in some nations, an Afghanistan would infinitely better becoming a Commie nation.


    I thought Afghanistan was run by communists at one point. 

    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Re: Pakistan - Taliban - Shariah Deal
     Reply #20 - March 06, 2009, 01:28 PM

    Quote
    Same with Islamists in some nations, an Afghanistan would infinitely better becoming a Commie nation.


    I thought Afghanistan was run by communists at one point. 

    The Democratic Republic of Afghanistan, you mean? It was short-lived, though. Back then, the United States provided a lot of support to the local Islamists to topple the pro-Soviet government. The rest is history.

    Islam: where idiots meet terrorists.
  • Re: Pakistan - Taliban - Shariah Deal
     Reply #21 - March 06, 2009, 03:30 PM

    It looks like a similar situation is happening in Russia. I guess the Russian's figure it's better to let the province go tribal instead of losing it.

    http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5g3CnrQFlvyjHiDVHC-jXxegnNz7wD96KOKB00

    BwackoB

    My style is impetuous, my defense is impregnable and I'm just ferocious. I want your heart. I want to eat your children. Praise be to Allah." -- Mike Tyson
  • Re: Pakistan - Taliban - Shariah Deal
     Reply #22 - March 06, 2009, 04:28 PM




    Thanks for that article Submissive Bob! Encouraging polygamy & honor killings! I wish I could  Shooter Ramzan Kadyrov. The son of a b****!

    It proves my original idea was wrong, Marxism isn't a cure for extremism! 
    An excerpt: Kadyrov describes women as the property of their husbands and says their main role is to bear children. He encourages men to take more than one wife, even though polygamy is illegal in Russia. Women and girls are now required to wear headscarves in all schools, universities and government offices.Some Chechen women say they support or at least accept Kadyrov's strict new guidelines.

    "Headscarves make a woman beautiful," said Zulikhan Nakayeva, a medical student whose long dark hair flowed out from under her head covering, her big brown eyes accentuated by mascara.

    But many chafe under the restrictions.


    Many people suspect Kadyrov is branding the seven late November slayings honor killings to advance his political agenda. He said the women were planning to go abroad to work as prostitutes, but their relatives found out about it and killed them.


    Russia is allowing such a man to run a part of the nation? finmad I wonder if Britain & other parts of Europe will follow suit & let such people control their Muslim ghettos?An unlikely scenario, but with all the  Butt kissing of extremists in Europe, it isn't entirely impossible! They might just do it if they thought all terrorism would disappear, like Russia did! The lives of Muslimahs become less worthy than that of potential terror victims. sad



    World renowned historian Will Durant"...the Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex order and freedom can at any moment be overthrown..."
  • Re: Pakistan - Taliban - Shariah Deal
     Reply #23 - March 06, 2009, 04:38 PM

    It looks like a similar situation is happening in Russia. I guess the Russian's figure it's better to let the province go tribal instead of losing it.

    http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5g3CnrQFlvyjHiDVHC-jXxegnNz7wD96KOKB00

    BwackoB

    What an asshole! finmad
  • Re: Pakistan - Taliban - Shariah Deal
     Reply #24 - April 17, 2009, 01:25 AM

    Sometimes strong evil requires equally strong opposition. Thats' the only cure- you won't hear Kazakhstanis wanting Shariah. I am not a Marxist but that could be a cure.

    For instance, I won't want Marxism in Sweden today, but in Europe in the witch hunt era witch... Marxism would immediately cure the malaise, I don't know a single Marxist who's honor killed, killed a witch or institutionalised wife beating.

    Same with Islamists in some nations, an Afghanistan would infinitely better becoming a Commie nation.

    I kinda agree. Even though I dislike Marxism, I regret that Turkey didn't fall into the Bolshevik camp instead of NATO. Communism would have collapsed anyway, and we would have been purged of Islam. But... communists come with their own baggage of crimes against humanity.

    Anyway, Marxism is of course better than any kind of Islamic theocracy, but I still prefer a free market and individual rights.



    When you really dive into history, it would amaze you how much nonmuslims had to do with the spread of islam.
    Indonesia is a great example. Without getting into too much history (there is a lot), they played a major role in "classifying" communites as "muslim", even if the people there never even heard of a quran or muhammed. Keep in mind, when they arrived islam was still fairly new, and centered around the trading ports (what the dutch really cared about).  By classifying them as muslim, it helped in 2 ways: 1) organization 2) consolidating power under with the muslim traders, making life more easy for the dutch.

    Later, during the cold war, after Indonesia became independent, the western nations pulled a real dick move (to understand indonesia, you must understand the javanese). There is Santri Islam, or orthodox islam and there is Agami Jawi (Javanese religion). Agama jawa is more of a spiritual philosophy than a religion (it is based off Kejawen, you can learn more here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Javanese_beliefs). People who keep the kejawen but also are muslim are called abangan muslims. Most Javanese were Abangan. 

    Indonesia was founded by Sukarno, who was an abangan (he even was proposing making Kejawen an official religion, but met opposition from non javanese who felt it would be an attempt to "javafy" them). Only problem....  Sukarno was getting too buddy buddy with the communists.
    In fact, prior to 1965 Partai Komunis Indonesia (PKI) was the largest communist party outside the Soviet Union. Sukarno was also a supporter. This upset the anti communists (especially in the west) and as early as 1958 a coup attempt was made by CIA sponsered forces amongst the military and the political right-wing.
    Then again in In August 1959 there was an attempt on behalf of the military to prevent the holding of the PKI congress. However the congress was held as scheduled, and was addressed by Sukarno himself.
    Next thing you know, in in the 1960s a false flag operation by the Thirtieth of September Movement gave the opening for western backed General Suharto to seize power leading to a violent anti communist purge that killed over 700,000 people.
    Suharto, being the shrewd bastard that he was, knew he needed to get rid of the PKI for good....and what better way, than by enlisting the islamists.
    With his support, the Islamic organization Ansor held anti-PKI rallies across Java, the main office of PKI was burned down, and on October 18 around a hundred PKI were killed by Ansor. This lead to the systematic extermination of the PKI, at the hands of islamists being supported by right wing generals and western powers.
    The final nail in the coffin.....to kill the communist movement Atheism was outlawed.
    Suharto continued to use the Islamists (like a rabid dog on a leash, and he treated them like dogs too, he was a right winger not an islamist) to put down any opposition. Well, he built them up....now he's gone and his little monsters still lives...and with all the Saudi oil money and Yemeni missionaries they are living larger every day.

    There is a lot more to it, but you get the gist.

    The foundation of superstition is ignorance, the
    superstructure is faith and the dome is a vain hope. Superstition
    is the child of ignorance and the mother of misery.
    -Robert G. Ingersoll (1898)

     "Do time ninjas have this ability?" "Yeah. Only they stay silent and aren't douchebags."  -Ibl
  • Re: Pakistan - Taliban - Shariah Deal
     Reply #25 - April 17, 2009, 07:05 AM

    Quote from: Homer
    Next thing you know, in in the 1960s a false flag operation by the Thirtieth of September Movement gave the opening for western backed General Suharto to seize power leading to a violent anti communist purge that killed over 700,000 people.

    I will freely admit that I am ignorant of Indonesian history. Any unbiased sources explaining this purge?

    Islam: where idiots meet terrorists.
  • Re: Pakistan - Taliban - Shariah Deal
     Reply #26 - April 17, 2009, 11:00 AM

    Sometimes strong evil requires equally strong opposition. Thats' the only cure- you won't hear Kazakhstanis wanting Shariah. I am not a Marxist but that could be a cure.

    For instance, I won't want Marxism in Sweden today, but in Europe in the witch hunt era witch... Marxism would immediately cure the malaise, I don't know a single Marxist who's honor killed, killed a witch or institutionalised wife beating.

    Same with Islamists in some nations, an Afghanistan would infinitely better becoming a Commie nation.

    I kinda agree. Even though I dislike Marxism, I regret that Turkey didn't fall into the Bolshevik camp instead of NATO. Communism would have collapsed anyway, and we would have been purged of Islam. But... communists come with their own baggage of crimes against humanity.

    Anyway, Marxism is of course better than any kind of Islamic theocracy, but I still prefer a free market and individual rights.



    When you really dive into history, it would amaze you how much nonmuslims had to do with the spread of islam.
    Indonesia is a great example. Without getting into too much history (there is a lot), they played a major role in "classifying" communites as "muslim", even if the people there never even heard of a quran or muhammed. Keep in mind, when they arrived islam was still fairly new, and centered around the trading ports (what the dutch really cared about).  By classifying them as muslim, it helped in 2 ways: 1) organization 2) consolidating power under with the muslim traders, making life more easy for the dutch.

    Later, during the cold war, after Indonesia became independent, the western nations pulled a real dick move (to understand indonesia, you must understand the javanese). There is Santri Islam, or orthodox islam and there is Agami Jawi (Javanese religion). Agama jawa is more of a spiritual philosophy than a religion (it is based off Kejawen, you can learn more here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Javanese_beliefs). People who keep the kejawen but also are muslim are called abangan muslims. Most Javanese were Abangan. 

    Indonesia was founded by Sukarno, who was an abangan (he even was proposing making Kejawen an official religion, but met opposition from non javanese who felt it would be an attempt to "javafy" them). Only problem....  Sukarno was getting too buddy buddy with the communists.
    In fact, prior to 1965 Partai Komunis Indonesia (PKI) was the largest communist party outside the Soviet Union. Sukarno was also a supporter. This upset the anti communists (especially in the west) and as early as 1958 a coup attempt was made by CIA sponsered forces amongst the military and the political right-wing.
    Then again in In August 1959 there was an attempt on behalf of the military to prevent the holding of the PKI congress. However the congress was held as scheduled, and was addressed by Sukarno himself.
    Next thing you know, in in the 1960s a false flag operation by the Thirtieth of September Movement gave the opening for western backed General Suharto to seize power leading to a violent anti communist purge that killed over 700,000 people.
    Suharto, being the shrewd bastard that he was, knew he needed to get rid of the PKI for good....and what better way, than by enlisting the islamists.
    With his support, the Islamic organization Ansor held anti-PKI rallies across Java, the main office of PKI was burned down, and on October 18 around a hundred PKI were killed by Ansor. This lead to the systematic extermination of the PKI, at the hands of islamists being supported by right wing generals and western powers.
    The final nail in the coffin.....to kill the communist movement Atheism was outlawed.
    Suharto continued to use the Islamists (like a rabid dog on a leash, and he treated them like dogs too, he was a right winger not an islamist) to put down any opposition. Well, he built them up....now he's gone and his little monsters still lives...and with all the Saudi oil money and Yemeni missionaries they are living larger every day.

    There is a lot more to it, but you get the gist.


    Very interesting, this seems to have happened in most arab countries as well which indicates that the rise of Islamism (or the real, true Islam as some of our friends call it) is directly attributable to political decisions influenced by the cold war and not (as our esteemed friends think) to someone reading this or that hadith.

    Everyone knows for example that some western agencies were disseminating extremist wahhabi literature into Soviet Central Asia in order to stimulate an Islamist rebellion there.

    "By the One in Whose Hand my soul is, were you not to commit sins, Allah would replace you with a people who would commit sins and then seek forgiveness from Allah; and Allah would forgive them." [Saheeh Muslim]

    "Wherever you are, death will find you, Even in the looming tower."
    - Quran 4:78
  • Re: Pakistan - Taliban - Shariah Deal
     Reply #27 - April 17, 2009, 11:14 AM

    Quote from: Arab-Wannabe
    Very interesting, this seems to have happened in most arab countries as well which indicates that the rise of Islamism (or the real, true Islam as some of our friends call it) is directly attributable to political decisions influenced by the cold war and not (as our esteemed friends think) to someone reading this or that hadith.

    Yes, it's all an evil American conspiracy, isn't it? Mohammad was definitely not a pedophile warlord, was he now?

    Was Islam created by the West? Was there Islamic persecutions and genocides before the Cold War, or not? And finally, even if we are to accept Western collaboration, how would the rise of true Islam be possible without intellectual vacuums like Necmettin Erbakan, Hasan al-Banna, Sayyid Qutb, and their bloodthirsty minions? If the Quran never called for violence against the House of War, would such a global, oppressive movement ever arise?

    After all, all the Islamists had to do was to return to the primitive teachings of a genocidal pedophile bandit.

    Islam: where idiots meet terrorists.
  • Re: Pakistan - Taliban - Shariah Deal
     Reply #28 - April 17, 2009, 11:26 AM

    Quote from: Arab-Wannabe
    Very interesting, this seems to have happened in most arab countries as well which indicates that the rise of Islamism (or the real, true Islam as some of our friends call it) is directly attributable to political decisions influenced by the cold war and not (as our esteemed friends think) to someone reading this or that hadith.

    Yes, it's all an evil American conspiracy, isn't it? Mohammad was definitely not a pedophile warlord, was he now?

    Was Islam created by the West? Was there Islamic persecutions and genocides before the Cold War, or not? And finally, even if we are to accept Western collaboration, how would the rise of true Islam be possible without intellectual vacuums like Necmettin Erbakan, Hasan al-Banna, Sayyid Qutb, and their bloodthirsty minions? If the Quran never called for violence against the House of War, would such a global, oppressive movement ever arise?

    After all, all the Islamists had to do was to return to the primitive teachings of a genocidal pedophile bandit.


    If evil american conspiracy = a general consensus on the history of the cold war, then yes its an evil american-ZIONIST conspiracy (I added Zionist because Im an anti-semite who likes Hitler)

    While there were persecutions and massacres in the Islamic world, I dont see those as having any bearing on the rise of Islamist (true Islam) groups in the 20th century and their progressive radicalization. The personalities you mentioned are crucial but so are the events that led to the spread of their ideas (such as petro-dollar funded wahhabism/super true Islam being spread to the rest of the Islamic world and the west). We also previously mentioned the crushing of socialist progressive groups across the Muslim world and the support by short sighted politicians (such as Sadat) to Islamists.


    "By the One in Whose Hand my soul is, were you not to commit sins, Allah would replace you with a people who would commit sins and then seek forgiveness from Allah; and Allah would forgive them." [Saheeh Muslim]

    "Wherever you are, death will find you, Even in the looming tower."
    - Quran 4:78
  • Re: Pakistan - Taliban - Shariah Deal
     Reply #29 - April 17, 2009, 11:45 AM

    Quote from: Arab-Wannabe
    The personalities you mentioned are crucial

    Thank you for proving my point.  Afro

    Quote from: Arab-Wannabe
    (I added Zionist because Im an anti-semite who likes Hitler)

    Thank you for exposing yourself.  Roll Eyes

    Quote from: Arab-Wannabe
    While there were persecutions and massacres in the Islamic world, I dont see those as having any bearing on the rise of Islamist (true Islam) groups in the 20th century and their progressive radicalization.

    Of course, this has absolutely nothing to do with Islam, which is a completely peaceful and perfect religion regurgitated by Mohammad, the role model of all humanity for all times. The historical genocides carried out by Islamic conquerors and contemporary oppression under Islam have nothing at all in common. They certainly were not following the teachings of the same genocidal pedophile bandit.

    How come you always introduce some strawman into the debate? Was there any mention of Zionism at all? And even if the USA supported some Islamic groups during the Cold War phase, what has this got to do with Zionism?

    Islam: where idiots meet terrorists.
  • 12 3 4 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »