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Theme Changer

 Topic: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"

 (Read 313496 times)
  • Previous page 1 2 3 45 6 ... 61 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #90 - April 29, 2010, 09:06 PM

    Hi

    Abood, I have prepared a skeletal document that you can adapt & use to promote this project to all those listed in my last post, as well as others you would like to involve..  Most of these people can be contacted on Facebook, Youtube or via a email.  I can contact some of these via my fcebook account, unfortunately my facebook account has been closed my facebook.

    Anyhow, here it is...


    Hi

    Just a quick note to inform you of an Arabic Translation project that is currently underway.

    Abbas AbdulNoor,  a former Imam and Egyptian Islamic scholar, who studied Islam at the prestigious Al-Azhar University, who after many years of doubt and currently 80 years of age recently came to the realisation that Islam was a falsehood.

    He chronicled all his finding in a document written in Arabic here.  http://www.wikiupload.com/2Ps87tDu.

    You will note this book is banned in all Arab and Islamic countries, and a brief search on google will show it is not widely publicised.

    This is a brief section
    Quote
    About the author:

    Abbas Abdul Nur was born in Damanhur in 1927. A Sufi Sheikh, pious Muslim of the Sunni sect, jurist, and chief of a Khanaqah. He inherited the religion from fathers and grandfathers recognized for their piety and strength of doctrine.

    Enrolled in the Facuty of Theology at Al Azhar where he studied for three years. He decided to complete the fourth year at the University of Fuad I, Faculty of Literature, Department of Philosophy where he studied under intellectual titans such as Abdulrahman Badawai,  Zaki Naguib Mahmood, Muhammed Abdul Hadi, Abu Reeda Al-Ahwani, Yusuf Murad, and others.

    Despite all of that, he was disappointed in both universities and said that he wasted four years of his life. From Fuad I he transferred to the Higher Institute of Education and obtained a degree from there. He was awarded a scholarship from the Agency of Islamic Endowments to Study in Paris at the Sorbonne for a doctorate. And so he obtained what he pursued.

    When he returned to his city, he resumed his religious endeavour so he became a preacher, imam, and a speaker in one of its mosques. He then pegged away at academic education and writing scientific and philosophical books and had several works in Arab and Islamic philosophy published recurrently in Beirut and Cairo. After he retired, he devoted himself to writing and research in the various fields of philosophy, literature, and religion.

    But his intellectual life was not without worries and his religious life was not free of doubts. He grew up in a pious devout household; however, there was mystery, trouble, and endless queries in his mind. His mind was raising provocative subjects but his faith was enough to answer every enigma.

    The conflict between science and religion started early with Abbas. A conflict that had no chance to be made public. Had this conflict emerged from the darkness since its inception, he wouldn’t have reached this degree of fervour that is conveyed in this unrivalled book. If he was allowed to express his mind and heart, the result would have been the same but it wouldn’t have been with such intensity and fervour.

    Abbas is not responsible for the rejection of the Quran and the god of the Quran. Neither are the Quran or Allah responsible. It’s all Muslims and particularly the loudmouthed Mufassirun who are responsible for this bizarre Western view of the Quran and the god of the Quran.

    The Muslims have extracted the Quran from its environment and presented it to us as an eternal, divine text that has no relation with the human thought and the circumstances of its origins. Which is the whole problem to Dr. Abbas. He wants nothing but to return back to history. A wonderful text in its time but full with mistakes and misguidances when not in its time.***

    We ask the reader to read slowly in order to judge, to read the suffering of the author, and to let his mind and faith work together. Let the reader know that faith works when the mind is not working but not without it.

     

    For more information, please visit this thread (http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?action=post;topic=10047.0;num_replies=88)

    As its a huge undertaking, and if you can provide any help promoting this project, then please let us know

    Thanks

    Council Of Exmuslims


    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #91 - April 29, 2010, 10:15 PM

    in addition to just a translation it would also be great if there was some sort of analysis suggesting how he has proven other experts of Arab lexicography, both Muslim and non-Muslim, who over the centuries have insisted on the notion that Quran contains majestic language and poetry are wrong or 'have been covering things up'. The Quran has of course always been open to analysis and this topic of poetry and language in the Quran has been discussed in depth for centuries - i'd be interested to know what additional insight the author offers since at the same time i respect the fact he spent 3 years at Al-Azhaar university.

    it's great that he wrote the book, but a critical analysis of the book, especially a comparison to what experts on Arabic lexicography say, is also warranted.

    ''we are morally and philisophically in the best position to win the league'' - Arsene Wenger
  • Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #92 - April 29, 2010, 10:21 PM

    abuyunus, is your faith in the majesty of Quranic Arabic like your faith in Allah himself, second hand and hopeful? As a British Bengali who doesn't speak Arabic, you just have to hope for the best, right?

    There are ancient Sanskrit, Chinese, Latin, Greek, Hebrew, Italian and English texts that are of such incomparable majesty. Doesn't make them divine though.

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #93 - April 29, 2010, 10:24 PM

    in addition to just a translation it would also be great if there was some sort of analysis suggesting how he has proven other experts of Arab lexicography, both Muslim and non-Muslim, who over the centuries have insisted on the notion that Quran contains majestic language and poetry are wrong or 'have been covering things up'.

    You might be asking the wrong people as none of us believe the lexicography & poetry in the Quran means it can only be divinely inspired.

    Perhaps you could explain what is so miraculous about it, as I never quite understood this point, despite trying to..

    in other words why is it different from this

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-jPA20g91Y

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #94 - April 29, 2010, 10:27 PM

    abuyunus, is your faith in the majesty of Quranic Arabic like your faith in Allah himself, second hand and hopeful? As a British Bengali who doesn't speak Arabic, you just have to hope for the best, right?

    There are ancient Sanskrit, Chinese, Latin, Greek, Hebrew, Italian and English texts that are of such incomparable majesty. Doesn't make them divine though.



    calm down dude, i'm just asking for an in depth analysis  Smiley
    I never claimed that majestic poetry or language proves the Quran is from a divine source

    ''we are morally and philisophically in the best position to win the league'' - Arsene Wenger
  • Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #95 - April 29, 2010, 10:28 PM

    how he has proven other experts of Arab lexicography, both Muslim and non-Muslim, who over the centuries have insisted on the notion that Quran contains majestic language and poetry are wrong


    Oh now you want to cite the classical scholars!

    Hmmmm...
  • Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #96 - April 29, 2010, 10:30 PM

    You might be asking the wrong people as none of us believe the lexicography & poetry in the Quran means it can only be divinely inspired.




    neither do i - i was just asking for an adequate analysis, sorry i came to the wrong place.

    ''we are morally and philisophically in the best position to win the league'' - Arsene Wenger
  • Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #97 - April 29, 2010, 10:32 PM

    Have you ever requested an adequate anaysis frm the works of your imams who make these claims of divine poetry & lexicography.  Or do you only make those requests from us?

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #98 - April 29, 2010, 10:33 PM

    calm down dude, i'm just asking for an in depth analysis  Smiley
    I never claimed that majestic poetry or language proves the Quran is from a divine source


    I'm always calm dude  Afro

    Why don't you wait until its been translated? Get defensive when you've read it.


    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #99 - April 29, 2010, 10:33 PM

    Oh now you want to cite the classical scholars!

    Hmmmm...


    I heve never had any problem listening to the opinions of learned scholars, classical or otherwise - my point has always been that we should never take their word as gospel and realise they are only opinions. on the contrary it would be foolish of me not to listen to opinions of experts regarding subjects i know very little about  Tongue

    ''we are morally and philisophically in the best position to win the league'' - Arsene Wenger
  • Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #100 - April 29, 2010, 10:34 PM

    Have you ever requested an adequate anaysis frm the works of your imams who make these claims of divine poetry & lexicography.  Or do you only make those requests from us?


    Bingo  Afro

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #101 - April 29, 2010, 10:40 PM

    Have you ever requested an adequate anaysis frm the works of your imams who make these claims of divine poetry & lexicography.  Or do you only make those requests from us?


    well, non-muslims as well as Muslims over the centuries who are experts of arabic lexicography have always insisted on the majestic poetry and language of the Quran. but whenever the imams have claimed this means the Quran is divinely inspired, i have instinctively rejected that claim

    ''we are morally and philisophically in the best position to win the league'' - Arsene Wenger
  • Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #102 - April 29, 2010, 10:49 PM

    Well then, perhaps you should be posing your question to them & not us  Huh?

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #103 - April 29, 2010, 10:56 PM

    neither do i - i was just asking for an adequate analysis, sorry i came to the wrong place.


    No no Abuyunis, you came to the right place. I read the whole book. I gues who ever wrote it is very good with Arabic litrature and Poetry. In fact he compares the Quran with the well known pre-islamic and post Islamic poets. He actually give excellent substitutes to many verses that he thinks, and I agree after re-reading them, are badly compsed...

    ...
  • Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #104 - April 29, 2010, 11:00 PM

    Thanks, IsLame. I edited the message and am now looking forward to sending it to many people.
  • Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #105 - April 29, 2010, 11:02 PM

    Dear All, I found a better PDF file where the pages are displayed as single pages. It is larger than the previous (4 MB) version I uploded earlier. This one is 32 MB in size. I am still searching about the author or if there are Word Doc versions available or not but unsuccessful so far.

    The author could well be dead by now as he was born in 1927. Or maybe the name Abas Abdulnoor is not his real name. I am still looking!

    Here is the better version: My Ordeal With The Quran

    ...
  • Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #106 - April 29, 2010, 11:03 PM

    Thanks, IsLame. I edited the message and am now looking forward to sending it to many people.


    Please wait... read my earlier post. It has the link to a better version.

    ...
  • Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #107 - April 29, 2010, 11:11 PM

    No no Abuyunis, you came to the right place. I read the whole book. I gues who ever wrote it is very good with Arabic litrature and Poetry. In fact he compares the Quran with the well known pre-islamic and post Islamic poets. He actually give excellent substitutes to many verses that he thinks, and I agree after re-reading them, are badly compsed...


    thanks ribs, i look forward to more detailed analysis from you. i really wish i learnt arabic language, maybe i will one day.

    ''we are morally and philisophically in the best position to win the league'' - Arsene Wenger
  • Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #108 - April 29, 2010, 11:23 PM

    I managed to get Readiris with arabic (an older version 11, but apparently version 12 does a better job), and have tried to convert this adobe file to a more readable format in word so its <arabic - english conversion software> friendly.

    Came out pretty badly  Cry , here are the results after converting all 179 pages to word

    http://www.scribd.com/doc/30725475


    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #109 - April 29, 2010, 11:26 PM

    I managed to get Readiris with arabic (an older version 11, but apparently version 12 does a better job), and have tried to convert this adobe file to a more readable format in word so its <arabic - english conversion software> friendly.

    Came out pretty badly  Cry , here are the results after converting all 179 pages to word

    http://www.scribd.com/doc/30725475




    IsLame, did you try the newer book PDF version I posted?

    ...
  • Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #110 - April 29, 2010, 11:31 PM

    yep, that one too..

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #111 - April 29, 2010, 11:38 PM

    No it is not working, the characters are not even Arabic.

    ...
  • Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #112 - April 29, 2010, 11:40 PM

    Some of them arent, but most of them are?

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #113 - April 29, 2010, 11:43 PM

    The ones that are Arabic is the PDF image and not text. The text is gibrish!

    ...
  • Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #114 - April 30, 2010, 12:02 AM

    Yes, I see what you mean.  Before we go any further with trying to convert it into word for the benefit of an automated arbic-english online tool, I just want to see if it would be beneficial. 

    Perhaps you could type out one or 2 paragraphs that iraqiatheist translated, and we could run it under google translate (or a better translation engine) to compare it against what he did. That should tell us if it would be worthwhile or not..

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #115 - April 30, 2010, 12:20 AM

    It is not worth it, I can tell you now. Because, in the next few chapters, it will surely need human translator, because the grammar analysis is the toughest and most amazing part of the book. He says if Allah can not speak correct Arabic, then it is surely nothing more than a poem by Mohamed or some other people either on his time or later added after his death.

    ...
  • Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #116 - April 30, 2010, 01:13 AM

    I guess it will be chapter 2, as Iraqi Atheist is now translating the first chapter. Right, IA? I wish I could help with chapter 3, but I am not sure I will perfect it. The most difficult part will be when we reach the grammar mistakes in the Quran, and how the tafseer mullahs have been playing with words and attributing those mistakes to new forms of poetry. He says they invented new branches of Arabic poetry just so the Quran would look nice and not out of tune.

    Yes I will be working on chapter 1 for now. Hassan is doing chapter 2. So any other volunteer should start with 3.

    Dear All, I found a better PDF file where the pages are displayed as single pages. It is larger than the previous (4 MB) version I uploded earlier. This one is 32 MB in size. I am still searching about the author or if there are Word Doc versions available or not but unsuccessful so far.

    The author could well be dead by now as he was born in 1927. Or maybe the name Abas Abdulnoor is not his real name. I am still looking!

    Here is the better version: My Ordeal With The Quran

    This version is easier on the eyes.  Afro

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    One more thing I want to say. I realize this is a huge project and it will take a lot of time. However, I think we should share what we have translated on a regular basis so that the other translators can check for mistakes and make suggestions.
    This process won't take a tenth of the time of the actual translating. Like the portion that I posted took me about 1 hour to translate but less than 5 minuted to go over again and correct.
    It's best to start neat.  Smiley
  • Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #117 - April 30, 2010, 02:15 AM

    As someone who has done translating as I am sure plenty of people on here have done, I am sending my good mojo your way. 

    So once again I'm left with the classic Irish man's dilemma, do I eat the potato or do I let it ferment so I can drink it later?
    My political philosophy below
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwGat4i8pJI&feature=g-vrec
    Just kidding, here are some true heros
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBTgvK6LQqA
  • Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #118 - April 30, 2010, 06:55 AM

    One more thing I want to say. I realize this is a huge project and it will take a lot of time. However, I think we should share what we have translated on a regular basis so that the other translators can check for mistakes and make suggestions.
    This process won't take a tenth of the time of the actual translating. Like the portion that I posted took me about 1 hour to translate but less than 5 minuted to go over again and correct.
    It's best to start neat.  Smiley


    Good idea, IA  Afro

    tnh I have far more important issues going on in my life at the moment and I use this forum as a place to relax and chill - and the last thing I really need right now is a heavy project where I have to think hard and concentrate lol so I will give time to this only when I have some spare moments.

    @RIBS I translated part of Zmakhsharis tafseer for my Phd studies back in the 80s so I am familiar with the language of grammar and rhetoric so hopefully that wont be too much of a problem.
  • Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #119 - April 30, 2010, 07:59 AM

    @RIBS I translated part of Zmakhsharis tafseer for my Phd studies back in the 80s so I am familiar with the language of grammar and rhetoric so hopefully that wont be too much of a problem.


    That is great Hassan.

    I was wondering if a mod or an admin can create a thread for the finished work that has no reply or quote options so that only the translated bits be posted. That way we can read the finished work without going through the comments parts inbetween. Is that possible?

    When ever a part ready we ask the staff to posted there.

    ...
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