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Theme Changer

 Topic: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"

 (Read 313916 times)
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  • Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #330 - May 20, 2010, 01:18 PM
    Ch 4 (cont...)

    2. Abd al Masih al Kindi (9th Century AD)

    This attack on Islam was not restricted to apostate Muslims. No, indeed, non-Muslims entered the ranks, galvanized by the fury of the fierce offensive being waged on the new religion. Perhaps the most famous of these, whose quotes have reached us, was the philosopher Abd al Masih ibn Ishaq al Kindi (Hassan: Not to be confused with the well known Muslim philosopher also called al Kindi). He was a Nestorian that it is claimed lived in the courtyard of (the Caliph) al Ma'mun who, no doubt due to his openness towards those who differed from him in views and belief, (Hassan: Al Ma'mun was famous for gathering opposing sects and religions to hear them debate,) tolerated the ferocious criticism of this Christian who attacked the rituals of Islam and it's beliefs, one after another and especially the rites of Hajj.

    His views that concern us here are those connected to our topic and his explanation for the effect of the Qur'an in that "The Nabataeans, the rabble, non-arabs, the gullible and the ignorant who have no understanding of the Arabic language", are the only ones who would be duped by the claim of the Miraculous nature of the Qur'an in respect of it's composition." (26)


    (26) Quote from Dr. Badawi, from "The History of Disbelief in Islam," p 129.
  • Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #331 - May 20, 2010, 01:43 PM
    Almost sig worthy:

    "The Nabataeans, the rabble, non-arabs, the gullible and the ignorant who have no understanding of the Arabic language", are the only ones who would be duped by the claim of the Miraculous nature of the Qur'an in respect of it's composition."
  • Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #332 - May 20, 2010, 01:45 PM
    I never thought that the Quran was a great literary work. It's repetitive and mediocre.
  • Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #333 - May 20, 2010, 01:52 PM
    Quote from: Iraqi Atheist on May 20, 2010, 01:45 PM
    I never thought that the Quran was a great literary work. It's repetitive and mediocre.


    I used to feel guilty nearly dozing off during recitations - especially of the long suras at the beginning. (Baqara etc...)
  • Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #334 - May 20, 2010, 01:55 PM
    True story: I was in the library at SOAS reading a part from the Qur'an for study in the next lecture. Next thing I know my friend is tapping me on my shoulder - I looked up dazed - he told me I was snoring in the library and drooling on the Qur'an.
  • Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #335 - May 20, 2010, 01:57 PM
     Grin

    BTW, I never read the Quran. With the exception of my RE classes of course. I found it unbearably boring.
  • Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #336 - May 20, 2010, 01:58 PM
    Quote from: Hassan on May 20, 2010, 01:55 PM
    True story: I was in the library at SOAS reading a part from the Qur'an for study in the next lecture. Next thing I know my friend is tapping me on my shoulder - I looked up dazed - he told me I was snoring in the library and drooling on the Qur'an.


     Cheesy
  • Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #337 - May 22, 2010, 05:52 AM
    Took me all day to get through this thread, and all I can say is- WOW. What a find! I really hope this book gets out there.
    Much thanks to RIBS for bringing it to our attention, and to everyone that took up the task of translating it.  Afro
  • Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #338 - May 22, 2010, 08:26 AM
    Due to the massive length of this thread it might be a good idea to now have a closed thread for text from the  book 'only' as was suggested earlier?

    ...and ppl can put whatever comments they want on this thread.
  • Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #339 - May 22, 2010, 08:36 AM
    Gr8 idea Hass, we can name it "MOWQ-Draft". Afro
    ...
  • Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #340 - May 22, 2010, 08:39 AM
    Perhaps someone could start it and copy what's been done so far (I know some corrections may have to be made - but that can be done later) into that thread and request that NOBODY posts comments and have a mod make sure and delete comments?

  • Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #341 - May 22, 2010, 09:23 AM
    Ok I will do it then Afro
    ...
  • Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #342 - May 22, 2010, 09:48 AM
    No I guess I should'nt. It is best that a Mod or an Admin does it. So that it is not possible to comment on the thread.  Afro

    Just copy and paste and it should have a (Read Only) sign so that readers know that they are not allowed to post.
    ...
  • Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #343 - May 23, 2010, 01:55 PM
    I would recommend the wiki, or a document at http://docs.google.com/.

    I'd love to create and maintain a "LaTeX" document of this book. LaTeX docs are just plain text files with special markup (somewhat similar to HTML.) You define the structure of your document (e.g. \chapter{Name of Chapter 1} My text...) and the system figures out the rest (i.e. styles, hyphenation, chapter numbering, indices, cross referencing etc.) You can, of course, customize fonts and other stuff if you like. It's the best way to create high quality PDF files.
    Problem is, synchronizing with your updates will be difficult. There's no central document, where only certain editors have access.
    German ex-Muslim forum — My YouTube — List of Ex-Muslims —
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  • Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #344 - May 23, 2010, 08:47 PM
    Just been doing a bit of translating from the next section on Al Razi - and just wanted to share how much I'm loving this book and what an important task this is. I will try and finish the rest of this section tomorrow - but had to share this last quote from Al-Razi lol


    "...the followers of (the various) religions have taken the religion from their (religious) leaders by way of imitation. They  are prevented from questioning or scrutinizing the foundations, and tales are related to them that discourage them from questioning the these foundations and whoever contravenes that is accused of Kufr (disbelief). So if the (religious) leaders are asked to prove the truth of what they say they fly into a rage and spill the blood of one who demands that of them.

    Then came long familiarity, the passing of time, acquaintance and deception of people by the goat bearded (clergy) who stand at the front of religious gatherings and shriek out lies and gibberish while around them the weak-minded men and women and children (listen) until it all roots itself deeply within the people and becomes a predisposition and habitual."
  • Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #345 - May 23, 2010, 09:18 PM
    goat bearded Grin

    Things have not changed much I can see. Al Razi would not be happy.
  • Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #346 - May 23, 2010, 10:11 PM
     Cheesy

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #347 - May 23, 2010, 10:22 PM
    Things haven't changed at all since then. How terribly sad.
  • Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #348 - May 23, 2010, 10:29 PM
    Quote from: Hassan on May 23, 2010, 08:47 PM
    Just been doing a bit of translating from the next section on Al Razi - and just wanted to share how much I'm loving this book and what an important task this is. I will try and finish the rest of this section tomorrow - but had to share this last quote from Al-Razi lol


    "...the followers of (the various) religions have taken the religion from their (religious) leaders by way of imitation. They  are prevented from questioning or scrutinizing the foundations, and tales are related to them that discourage them from questioning the these foundations and whoever contravenes that is accused of Kufr (disbelief). So if the (religious) leaders are asked to prove the truth of what they say they fly into a rage and spill the blood of one who demands that of them.

    Then came long familiarity, the passing of time, acquaintance and deception of people by the goat bearded (clergy) who stand at the front of religious gatherings and shriek out lies and gibberish while around them the weak-minded men and women and children (listen) until it all roots itself deeply within the people and becomes a predisposition and habitual."



    Excellent translation, Hassan!

    By the way, I agree with Al-Razi's words you're quoting, but in an entirely different context!
    A googolplex is *precisely* as far from infinity as is the number 1.--Carl Sagan
  • Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #349 - May 23, 2010, 10:33 PM
    Alright, I made the effort and created a TeX-file for the content so far translated:

    My_Ordeal_With_The_Quran.tex

    And a nice PDF file:

    My_Ordeal_With_The_Quran-en-2010.5.24.pdf

    Still needs some tweaking though! Smiley
    German ex-Muslim forum — My YouTube — List of Ex-Muslims —
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    I'm on an indefinite break...
  • Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #350 - May 23, 2010, 10:58 PM
    Great work aziz. May Allah fulfill your earthly wishes while you're still on earth  Wink
  • Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #351 - May 23, 2010, 11:00 PM
    Nicely done - thanks, Aziz.

    btw there is a long 5th chapter also!
  • Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #352 - May 23, 2010, 11:04 PM
    Quote from: debunker on May 23, 2010, 10:29 PM
    Excellent translation, Hassan!

    By the way, I agree with Al-Razi's words you're quoting, but in an entirely different context!


    Well this book may be of equal value to Muslims striving to reform/bring about change amongst Muslims/Islam.
  • Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #353 - May 23, 2010, 11:16 PM
    Quote from: Iraqi Atheist on May 23, 2010, 10:58 PM
    Great work aziz. May Allah fulfill your earthly wishes while you're still on earth  Wink

    grin12
    Quote from: Hassan on May 23, 2010, 11:00 PM
    Nicely done - thanks, Aziz.

    Thank you, too. Smiley

    Could you do me the favour and translate all the chapter and section titles? Format like this:
    1. Chapter 1
    1.1 C1 Section 1
    2. Chapter 2
    2.1 C2 Section 1
    etc.
    German ex-Muslim forum — My YouTube — List of Ex-Muslims —
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  • Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #354 - May 23, 2010, 11:26 PM
    Quote from: Hassan on May 23, 2010, 11:04 PM
    Well this book may be of equal value to Muslims striving to reform/bring about change amongst Muslims/Islam.

    Maybe this could be a first, and be a joint collaboration between muslims & exmuslims.  Will set a precendence that instead of killing each other, we can actually work together!
    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #355 - May 23, 2010, 11:49 PM
    Quote from: Hassan on May 23, 2010, 11:04 PM
    Well this book may be of equal value to Muslims striving to reform/bring about change amongst Muslims/Islam.


    I think that's an excellent idea, Hassan.
    A googolplex is *precisely* as far from infinity as is the number 1.--Carl Sagan
  • Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #356 - May 24, 2010, 01:50 PM
    So are you going to help, now that you have your PhD out of the way.  Or instead do what the usual liberals Muslims do Wink
    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #357 - May 24, 2010, 02:00 PM
    Aziz, you do desktop publishing too? Impressed indeed. The PDF version is a ready to print product, love it...  Afro
    ...
  • Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #358 - May 24, 2010, 02:16 PM
    Quote from: IsLame on May 24, 2010, 01:50 PM
    So are you going to help, now that you have your PhD out of the way.  Or instead do what the usual liberals Muslims do Wink


    Yeah good idea, Debunker and Abuyunis should translate a chapter each. Afro
    ...
  • Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #359 - May 24, 2010, 02:19 PM
    Quote from: RIBS on May 24, 2010, 02:00 PM
    The PDF version is a ready to print product, love it...  Afro

    Almost, I'd say. Paragraph spacing is too small. Page numbers are absent from some pages. Something is buggy in there. I have to figure out what. Wink
    German ex-Muslim forum — My YouTube — List of Ex-Muslims —
    Wikis: en – de – fr – ar – tr
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