Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"

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- Blade Gunner
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Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
Reply #510 - May 28, 2010, 11:46 PM

Quote from: Hassan on May 28, 2010, 11:42 PM
like Z10 or whatever his name is

dude, you be sloshed

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Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
Reply #511 - May 28, 2010, 11:49 PM

@ Hassan an BD

oh well, I just might lose interest, but that debate (even if it were one way) would still be good info for the future for anyone who might say that Hell (in the Quran) is not literal or that I could stop praying/fasting if I wanted to, etc, etc...

A googolplex is *precisely* as far from infinity as is the number 1.--Carl Sagan
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Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
Reply #512 - May 28, 2010, 11:54 PM

Quote from: debunker on May 28, 2010, 11:49 PM
@ Hassan an BD

oh well, I just might lose interest, but that debate (even if it were one way) would still be good info for the future for anyone who might say that Hell (in the Quran) is not literal or that I could stop praying/fasting if I wanted to, etc, etc...

I honestly don't care anymore - at least if they are not a fucking bigot I don't.
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Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
Reply #513 - May 28, 2010, 11:58 PM

Quote from: debunker on May 28, 2010, 11:11 PM
that's NOT true... (or at least show me the verse).

Anyway, Abu, screw it, I decided to start a (one way?) discussion with you in the Exclusive Rooms... I'll make you admit that you don't believe in the Quran.. I'm busy at the moment, but now, this has become a final decision... I'll make you admit you don't believe in this book (the Quran).

"Oh you who believe, fasting is prescribed for you as it was prescribed for those before you, so that you may learn self restraint."
2:183

''we are morally and philisophically in the best position to win the league'' - Arsene Wenger
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Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
Reply #514 - May 29, 2010, 12:01 AM

Just turned avatars back on - love ur avatar BD - and Abu never change urs - Debunker you need a heart - urs is cold and hard, man!
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Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
Reply #515 - May 29, 2010, 12:02 AM

@ Abu

what translation is this?!!!

"...so that you may learn self restraint" is a total fabrication!!!

A googolplex is *precisely* as far from infinity as is the number 1.--Carl Sagan
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Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
Reply #516 - May 29, 2010, 12:03 AM

i won't change it - even if he pisses of to barca

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Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
Reply #517 - May 29, 2010, 12:03 AM

Quote from: Hassan on May 29, 2010, 12:01 AM
Just turned avatars back on - love ur avatar BD - and Abu never change urs - Debunker you need a heart - urs is cold and hard, man!

you think I'm heartless?!

A googolplex is *precisely* as far from infinity as is the number 1.--Carl Sagan
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Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
Reply #518 - May 29, 2010, 12:06 AM

002.183
YUSUFALI: O ye who believe! Fasting is prescribed to you as it was prescribed to those before you, that ye may (learn) self-restraint,-
PICKTHAL: O ye who believe! Fasting is prescribed for you, even as it was prescribed for those before you, that ye may ward off (evil);
SHAKIR: O you who believe! fasting is prescribed for you, as it was prescribed for those before you, so that you may guard (against evil).

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Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
Reply #519 - May 29, 2010, 12:08 AM

Quote from: debunker on May 29, 2010, 12:02 AM
@ Abu

what translation is this?!!!

"...so that you may learn self restraint" is a total fabrication!!!

True say, Debunker.

لعلكم تتقون

So that you may be wary/fear/take care/guard against (God/Sin).
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Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
Reply #520 - May 29, 2010, 12:10 AM

Quote from: abuyunus2 on May 28, 2010, 11:46 PM
dude, you be sloshed

rofl i know hey i was like wtf is he talking about what other name does he have hahaha
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Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
Reply #521 - May 29, 2010, 12:11 AM

Quote from: debunker on May 29, 2010, 12:03 AM
you think I'm heartless?!

you just need to chillax habibi stop being such a hardass we are all friends here

even though we will be in hell while you party in heaven

fucker
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Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
Reply #522 - May 29, 2010, 12:12 AM

Quote from: debunker on May 29, 2010, 12:03 AM
you think I'm heartless?!

I'm talking about your choice of avatar and the image it portrays - it may or may not reflect you - subconsciously we choose avatars that reflect something about us - I could be wrong of course - but your posts do reflect a hard streak.
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Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
Reply #523 - May 29, 2010, 12:14 AM

Quote from: BlackDog on May 29, 2010, 12:10 AM
rofl i know hey i was like wtf is he talking about what other name does he have hahaha

I just wasn't sure if I got the number right - I'm kinda dyslexic - but hide it well.
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Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
Reply #524 - May 29, 2010, 12:15 AM

Quote from: BlackDog on May 29, 2010, 12:11 AM
even though we will be in hell while you party in heaven

lol
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Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
Reply #525 - May 29, 2010, 12:16 AM

Quote from: Hassan on May 29, 2010, 12:14 AM
I just wasn't sure if I got the number right - I'm kinda dyslexic - but hide it well.

I'm sorry I didn't know. I feel bad now.
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Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
Reply #526 - May 29, 2010, 12:16 AM

oh ok, well, all you got is translation... the word is: so you may "tatakun".. i.e. fear God or literally *avoid* (God's WRATH!)

check these verses where *tatakun* is also used:

2:63 (god threatening the Israelites so they may avoid His wrath).
2:79 (God prescribing captial punishment so we might *avoid* crimes).
7:171 (more threats to the Israelites so they might *avoid* God's wrath).

How about this verse:

073.017
YUSUFALI: Then how shall ye, if ye deny (Allah), guard yourselves against a Day that will make children hoary-headed?-
PICKTHAL: Then how, if ye disbelieve, will ye protect yourselves upon the day which will turn children grey,
SHAKIR: How, then, will you guard yourselves, if you disbelieve, on the day which shall make children grey-headed?

God is warning us to *fear/guard against* a Day so scary, chidlren might turn gray.

So the evil we *guard against* is God's wrath.

EDIT:

Oh and I forgot 2:24!
002.024
YUSUFALI: But if ye cannot- and of a surety ye cannot- then fear the Fire whose fuel is men and stones,- which is prepared for those who reject Faith.
PICKTHAL: And if ye do it not - and ye can never do it - then guard yourselves against the Fire prepared for disbelievers, whose fuel is of men and stones.
SHAKIR: But if you do (it) not and never shall you do (it), then be on your guard against the fire of which men and stones are the fuel; it is prepared for the unbelievers.

A googolplex is *precisely* as far from infinity as is the number 1.--Carl Sagan
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Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
Reply #527 - May 29, 2010, 12:19 AM

i think the intentions of all of us are good and noble - maybe we all be in heaven

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Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
Reply #528 - May 29, 2010, 12:20 AM

Nah.
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Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
Reply #529 - May 29, 2010, 12:20 AM

I'm evil.
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Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
Reply #530 - May 29, 2010, 12:22 AM
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Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
Reply #531 - May 29, 2010, 12:24 AM

if you say so

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Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
Reply #532 - May 29, 2010, 12:24 AM
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Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
Reply #533 - May 29, 2010, 12:27 AM

Quote from: Hassan on May 29, 2010, 12:12 AM
I'm talking about your choice of avatar and the image it portrays - it may or may not reflect you - subconsciously we choose avatars that reflect something about us - I could be wrong of course - but your posts do reflect a hard streak.

underneath my apparent coldness, there's a volcano of love, Hassan.. it's just that I have a personality disorder known as OCPD (obsessive compulsive personality disorder)... you could call me Mr. Right, in the sense that I always (obessively and compulsively) try to correct what I perceive as being wrong... (of course, there IS still a dark side to my personality, that I won't reveal to anyone... except perhaps in a PM confession to you).

A googolplex is *precisely* as far from infinity as is the number 1.--Carl Sagan
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Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
Reply #534 - May 29, 2010, 12:29 AM

anyway, Abu, so did you reflect on these verses I shown you? You didn't unerstand the translation, because you didn't see the same verb (in Arabic) used in different verses.

A googolplex is *precisely* as far from infinity as is the number 1.--Carl Sagan
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Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
Reply #535 - May 29, 2010, 12:30 AM

Quote from: debunker on May 28, 2010, 11:30 PM
and those really don't believe in the Quran... I'll just need to show him that.

OK, its time to lay the cards on the table.

I know you wont agree but you dont really believe in the Quran either Debunker, do you?

Just because you keep telling yourself its true, your rational side doesnt really believe it does it. And you hate the fact that you have had to continually compromise your intellectually honest side to your superstitious spirtual side, which never really provided you with any foreseable benefit.

Just like the countless believers of all other religions before you. Only one compromise after another, for possibly nothing. And it still makes you feel lost without giving you a complete sense of the picture.

I feel it because I was there once too, and I hated it. Thankfully I let my brain win in the end, and not some dusty superstitious book from the dark ages.

And I feel much better for it.

I think that after living in Saudi for say ten years, and after much umm'ing & ahh'ing, with your knowledge and mental hunger, Islam wont be enough and one day you might see it too.

I hope you dont see this the wrong way. But still whatever happens, I wish you all the best on your journey..

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Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
Reply #536 - May 29, 2010, 12:32 AM

debunker, yep but i still think it's very possible, even likely given the context, that the verse is saying so you may 'guard yourselves' from sin

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Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
Reply #537 - May 29, 2010, 12:33 AM

Quote from: BlackDog on May 29, 2010, 12:11 AM
you just need to chillax habibi stop being such a hardass we are all friends here

even though we will be in hell while you party in heaven

fucker

I swear to God I do love Abu, it's just my sickness, you know... the good thing, though is that I DO know I'm sick and need therapy.

A googolplex is *precisely* as far from infinity as is the number 1.--Carl Sagan
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Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
Reply #538 - May 29, 2010, 12:35 AM

Quote from: abuyunus2 on May 29, 2010, 12:32 AM
yep but i still think it's very possible, even likely given the context, that the verse is saying so you may 'guard yourselves' from sin

NO.. .it's guarding yourself from punishment!It's ALL OVER the Quran Abu!

Besides the verb itself means to fear/avoid (something dangerous or threatening).

Ask Hassan if you don't believe me (at least solicit his linguistic view of the verb).

A googolplex is *precisely* as far from infinity as is the number 1.--Carl Sagan
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Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
Reply #539 - May 29, 2010, 12:36 AM

i have no doubt that debunker's intention is not to be mean to me or anything like that - he just finds my stance absurd and he just wants me to try to see that

''we are morally and philisophically in the best position to win the league'' - Arsene Wenger
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