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Theme Changer

 Topic: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"

 (Read 313880 times)
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  • Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #780 - June 13, 2010, 06:52 PM

    Oh and you made a mistake - you wrote:

    There are red lines that all Muslims of the Qurʾān do not allow themselves to cross.

    It should be:

    There are red lines that all Muslims who study the Qur'an do not allow themselves to cross.
  • Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #781 - June 13, 2010, 06:54 PM

    Okay, lol. That's why I need to write that browser app for this purpose. Wink

    German ex-Muslim forumMy YouTubeList of Ex-Muslims
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  • Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #782 - June 13, 2010, 07:38 PM

    Is it hard to edit the pdf?
  • Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #783 - June 13, 2010, 08:15 PM

    Well, you could attach notes to it and send it to me for review, but I don't like that process because it's tedious (open attachment with PDF reader, search for notes, read and apply changes; and this every single time...) I'd rather have a system where I receive plain text patches.

    My browser app would send those patches to me, and the user just has to edit the lines just like when they write a posting here. The patches look like this for example:

    --- a/books/My_Ordeal_With_The_Quran.tex
    +++ b/books/My_Ordeal_With_The_Quran.tex
    @@ -1761,7 +1761,7 @@ This is what we shall discuss in the following section.
     
     \section{Where is the Eloquence of the \Quran?}
     
    -There are red lines that all Muslims of the \Quran\
    +There are red lines that all Muslims who study the \Quran\
     do not allow themselves to cross.
     None of them start from zero.
     On the contrary they start off with absolute faith in His words —

    German ex-Muslim forumMy YouTubeList of Ex-Muslims
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  • Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #784 - June 13, 2010, 08:19 PM

    Well, you could attach notes to it and send it to me for review, but I don't like that process because it's tedious (open attachment with PDF reader, search for notes, read and apply changes; and this every single time...) I'd rather have a system where I receive plain text patches.

    My browser app would send those patches to me, and the user just has to edit the lines just like when they write a posting here. The patches look like this for example:

    --- a/books/My_Ordeal_With_The_Quran.tex
    +++ b/books/My_Ordeal_With_The_Quran.tex
    @@ -1761,7 +1761,7 @@ This is what we shall discuss in the following section.
     
     \section{Where is the Eloquence of the \Quran?}
     
    -There are red lines that all Muslims of the \Quran\
    +There are red lines that all Muslims who study the \Quran\
     do not allow themselves to cross.
     None of them start from zero.
     On the contrary they start off with absolute faith in His words —


    Sorry, can't get my head around that post.

    Anyway, you still haven't changed this:

    Oh and you made a mistake - you wrote:

    There are red lines that all Muslims of the Qurʾān do not allow themselves to cross.

    It should be:

    There are red lines that all Muslims who study the Qur'an do not allow themselves to cross.

  • Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #785 - June 13, 2010, 08:29 PM

    Here, this is what I'm talking about:
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/patchpad/pad.php

    Don't ask why it's not doing anything. I'm still working on it. Wink

    (Oh, and I did apply those corrections.)
    Edit: Hm, wait. The PDF doesn't reflect the changes. :/

    German ex-Muslim forumMy YouTubeList of Ex-Muslims
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  • Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #786 - June 13, 2010, 08:36 PM

    Is the purpose of the browser app clear? Or am I wasting my time here? I really want ppl to use this. Every other way is ineffective and a waste of time.

    German ex-Muslim forumMy YouTubeList of Ex-Muslims
    Wikis: en de fr ar tr
    CEMB-Chat
    I'm on an indefinite break...
  • Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #787 - June 13, 2010, 08:44 PM

    Aziz, please - I can't and don't want to have to think about the techie stuff - can I just concentrate on the translation and leave the rest to you and anyone else who can help.

    I'm really shit with techie stuff - it scrambles my brains.

    It may seem straightforward to you - but to me it is all Greek!
  • Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #788 - June 13, 2010, 08:52 PM

    Then you really shouldn't be able to post here. Yet we see that you can. It's super easy dude. When that app is finished, you just search the text and make your corrections and hit "Submit changes". How hard can that be?

    German ex-Muslim forumMy YouTubeList of Ex-Muslims
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  • Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #789 - June 14, 2010, 08:42 PM

    Chapter 4  - The Miraculous Nature of  the Qurʾān (cont...)

    Part 4 - Where is the Eloquence of the Qurʾān? (cont...)

    The first thing that strikes one in the Qur'an is it's disjointed nature. Yet this disjointedness is not felt by the believer, firstly because of his long familiarity with the text and secondly because his faith is a protective armour, shielding him from paying attention to the flaws this text contains. As for the non-Muslim, and especially if he is an Orientalist studying the Qur'an for the first time, he will be stunned when he sees this strange cocktail in a single chapter - in fact, in a single page - of the word of the Lord of the Worlds. He may have been taken aback by many things, but not a cocktail like the Qur'an.

    1. Continuity is rare in the Qur'an. In fact it is non-existent apart from Sura Yusuf and some of the short stories, then it reverts to it's original style of interruption and disjunction. Even Sura Yusuf which contains one hundred and eleven verses, has the last nine verses disjointed from those before it, not to mention that these nine verses between them are a strange cocktail with no connection between the elements that they are made of. However the waffling exegetes had no problem in uniting this untidy hem into one piece and creating all kinds of links and ties between its elements.  And no wonder! For each one of them - like Allah - is 'able to do all things'! That is when they turn their attention to any disjointedness or disarray in the Qur'an  - or at least - when they admit to it!!

    2. Look at these jumping verses and show me what links them together? (NB: Verses 70 to 88 of Sura al-Isra')

    Indeed we have honoured the children of Adam. We carry them on the land and the sea, and have made provision of good things for them, and have greatly preferred them above many of those whom we created

    On the day when We will call every people with their Imam; then whoever is given his book in his right hand, these shall read their book; and they shall not be wronged in the least

    Whoever is blind here will be blind in the Hereafter, and most astray from the Path.

    And they indeed strove hard to beguile you (NB: Singular, i.e. addressing Muhammad) away from that which We have revealed to you, that you should invent other than it against Us; and then would they have taken you as a friend.

    And if We had not made you firm you might almost have inclined to them a little.
     
    In that case We would certainly have made you to taste double (punishment) in this life and double (punishment) after death, then you would not have found any helper against Us.

    And surely they purposed to unsettle you from the land that they might expel you from it, and in that case they will not tarry behind you but a little.

    (Such was Our) way in the case of those whom We sent before you, you will find no change in Our ways.

    Establish regular prayers, at the sun's decline till the darkness of the night, and the morning recitation; surely the morning recitation is witnessed.

    And some part of the night awake for it, an extra one for you, maybe your Lord will raise you to a praised position

    And say: My Lord! make me to enter a goodly entering, and cause me to go forth a goodly going forth, and grant me from Thy Presence an authority to aid (me).

    And say: Truth has come and Falsehood has vanished; surely falsehood is ever bound to perish

    And We reveal of the Qur'an that which is a healing and a mercy for believers though it increase the evil-doers in nothing but ruin.

    And when We bestow Our favours on man he turns away and behaves proudly, and when evil afflicts him, he is despairing

    Everyone acts according to his own disposition, but your Lord best knows who is best guided in the path

    They ask you concerning the soul, say: The soul is one of the commands of my Lord, and you are not given anything of knowledge but a little.

    And if We wanted, We could certainly take away that which We have revealed to you, then you would not find anyone to to plead your case against Us.

    Except for Mercy from your Lord: Indeed his bounty is to you great.

    Say: If men and jinn should combine together to bring the like of this Quran, they could not bring the like of it, though some of them were aiders of others.

    (17:70-88)

    Indeed the whole of Sura al-Isra' is like this. Jumps that the Qur'an makes from one place to another, without traversing the wide roads or intersections between them or covering the vast spaces that lead to them. Does this have the slightest connection with eloquence, oh princes of eloquence? Answer me, oh champions of twisting, turning and apologetics? I cannot see in all that other than an insult to the mind and lulling it into unhealthy consequences and a terrible end! (ref to Qur'an). What is the difference between you and the journalists of the third world that sell themselves to the ruler and promote his decree in every place without conscience or integrity?  
  • Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #790 - June 14, 2010, 08:54 PM

    This chapter is sizzling hot..... Tisssssssss!

    ...
  • Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #791 - June 14, 2010, 08:58 PM

    This chapter is sizzling hot..... Tisssssssss!


    Yes, it is an eye opener even for me to read some of these verses I haven't looked at since I was a Muslim and to realise, yes it is really poorly composed.

    God really should have done a lot better Wink
  • Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #792 - June 14, 2010, 09:01 PM

    You're saying that only because Satan tricked you and appealed to your desires. Allah locked your hearts!

    German ex-Muslim forumMy YouTubeList of Ex-Muslims
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  • Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #793 - June 14, 2010, 09:06 PM

    Where can i read everything that's been translated without all the comments?Huh?Huh?
  • Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #794 - June 14, 2010, 09:09 PM

    Here: http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=10465

    Why don't ppl follow the important stuff here? (Nothing against you now...)

    German ex-Muslim forumMy YouTubeList of Ex-Muslims
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  • Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #795 - June 14, 2010, 09:10 PM

    You're saying that only because Satan tricked you and appealed to your desires. Allah locked your hearts!


    So true! Satan has tricked me and Allah has sealed my heart.

    I beg all of you not to be fooled by Satan and return to Islam before it's too late (and your skin is repeatedly roasted for eternity). The Qur'an is truly the literal word of Allah and is inimitable and infallible.

    These are all lies.

    Please block your ears - and pray - stay up all night praying and never ever come to this site again and read these evil, wicked lies!
  • Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #796 - June 14, 2010, 09:13 PM

    Sadly this is the way I've seen many Muslims act and talk. Cry

    German ex-Muslim forumMy YouTubeList of Ex-Muslims
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  • Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #797 - June 14, 2010, 09:22 PM

    Sadly this is the way I've seen many Muslims act and talk. Cry


    This Muslim convert can refute all these lies - even though he doesn't know Arabic. He is clutching a book that 'proves' the Qur'an is the perfect masterpiece of eloquence. (Read between the lines and you see one desperate sad and deluded fool!)

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=seqAzYCVrOE
  • Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #798 - June 14, 2010, 09:24 PM

    Look at those zombie eyes. I just want to grab him and shake him "Snap out it u fukkin tool!"

    Imbecile.

    Iblis has mad debaterin' skillz. Best not step up unless you're prepared to recieve da pain.

  • Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #799 - June 14, 2010, 10:39 PM

    You're saying that only because Satan tricked you and appealed to your desires. Allah locked your hearts!


    Oh, and Allah also took a dump on your faces. You can't see the truth. You can't see shit! Oh wait...

    German ex-Muslim forumMy YouTubeList of Ex-Muslims
    Wikis: en de fr ar tr
    CEMB-Chat
    I'm on an indefinite break...
  • Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #800 - June 15, 2010, 10:24 AM

    Hassan,

    your translation is truly fascinating! Amazing! Every translator must leave his own distinctive stamp on the translated text, and I must say, although I disagree with a lot of what's written, your work is stunning!

    btw, if others here could help, they should proof read your translation to remove typos... I didn't see Aziz's pdf files, but is he proof reading before adding your new translations to the pdf file?

    A googolplex is *precisely* as far from infinity as is the number 1.--Carl Sagan
  • Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #801 - June 15, 2010, 10:57 AM

    Hassan,

    your translation is truly fascinating! Amazing! Every translator must leave his own distinctive stamp on the translated text, and I must say, although I disagree with a lot of what's written, your work is stunning!

    btw, if others here could help, they should proof read your translation to remove typos... I didn't see Aziz's pdf files, but is he proof reading before adding your new translations to the pdf file?



    Thanks, Debunker, that means a great deal to me Smiley

    Apart from translating part of Zamakhshari as a Post-Grad student, I have not done a lot of translating and was extremely hesitant to participate at first because I know that doing something like this properly is not easy at all and is also a great responsibility, (tbh I thought ppl were a little rash and didn't realise what was involved - but I couldn't abandon them since they all seemed so enthusiastic.) But now I'm getting into the swing of it and I am quite enjoying it. (but cannot guarantee when and for how long I can give time to it)

    Yes, without a doubt a translator is putting something of himself into a translation - it is as much a work of interpretation than anything else.

    I think Aziz is casting quick eye over it - but would really like some English speakers (Aziz is from Germany btw) to help with checking it, please - as I just paste it in as soon as I've translated it - without reading it over.

    So if others could help me and Aziz out and perhaps ask Aziz how to edit it on the pdf which is here:

    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/docs/My_Ordeal_With_The_Quran/My_Ordeal_With_The_Quran-en-latest.pdf

    Thanks  Afro
  • Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #802 - June 15, 2010, 11:10 AM

    Have you considered working as a translator, like a full time job? Besides the required training, I really think translation is an art and you're really great at it!

    I mean when I look at the Arabic version and see how you magically transferred it to English, it's as if the original work was already in English....

    Seriously, Hassan, put your talent to work and make money out of it!

    A googolplex is *precisely* as far from infinity as is the number 1.--Carl Sagan
  • Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #803 - June 15, 2010, 11:12 AM

    I have to say Hassan your work is magic. It's like your having sex with the words. Yeah that was weird but you know what I mean!
  • Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #804 - June 15, 2010, 11:15 AM

    Have you considered working as a translator, like a full time job? Besides the required training, I really think translation is an art and you're really great at it!

    I mean when I look at the Arabic version and see how you magically transferred it to English, it's as if the original work was already in English....

    Seriously, Hassan, put your talent to work and make money out of it!


    Man, I love you! I am a very insecure person (may not come across on the net Wink )

    Yes translating is an art - and if I wasn't so tied up with so much going on in my life I would get into translating more as I do enjoy it - to an extent lol
  • Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #805 - June 15, 2010, 11:15 AM

    I have to say Hassan your work is magic. It's like your having sex with the words. Yeah that was weird but you know what I mean!


    lol... words are are great things to have sex with  grin12
  • Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #806 - June 15, 2010, 11:17 AM

     Cheesy

    You have nothing to be insecure about friend. You're a great man  Afro
  • Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #807 - June 15, 2010, 11:20 AM

    Hassan,

    your translation is truly fascinating! Amazing! Every translator must leave his own distinctive stamp on the translated text, and I must say, although I disagree with a lot of what's written, your work is stunning!

    btw, if others here could help, they should proof read your translation to remove typos... I didn't see Aziz's pdf files, but is he proof reading before adding your new translations to the pdf file?



    Interesting, care to share some of the points in the book that you dont agree with?


    Man, I love you! I am a very insecure person (may not come across on the net Wink )

    Yes translating is an art - and if I wasn't so tied up with so much going on in my life I would get into translating more as I do enjoy it - to an extent lol


    Hassan, this book could be your Demo Tape, Reelshow, CV to get proper payed projects from publishers maybe!

    ...
  • Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #808 - June 15, 2010, 11:21 AM

    @ Hassan

    btw, I know this is very un-islamic of me, to actually praise a work (your translation) which disparages the Quran, but I just couldn't help myself! May God forgive me!

    PS. I've also given up the idea of trying to make Abu see his truth as a disbeliever in the Quranic God, out of fear of God's wrath.

    A googolplex is *precisely* as far from infinity as is the number 1.--Carl Sagan
  • Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #809 - June 15, 2010, 11:25 AM

    Hassan! Write a novel or something! Even when I got caught reading your story, the Muslim girl said you wrote well! Though she didn't bother to read all of it because you know... it would have corrupted her!
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