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 Topic: Isrealis attack Aid Convoy ships

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  • Re: Isrealis attack Aid Convoy ships
     Reply #90 - June 01, 2010, 10:52 AM

    Just found a video of what the innocent civilian peace activists were apparently armed with.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JvS9PXZ3RWM&feature=player_embedded

    Looks very peaceful.  parrot

    Great find Afro
    Now I'm officially pardoning the Israelis  cool2
  • Re: Isrealis attack Aid Convoy ships
     Reply #91 - June 01, 2010, 10:53 AM

    My point was that there are Muslim countries where people do not go around killing each other......

    yes dear osmanthus, yes.., I knew that since I was a baby, since I was riding on the back of my grand father, eating from my grand mother's hand.,  But things changed quickly the moment I grew up and start thinking about Prophet Muhammad, Quran and Islamic History.

    You are absolutely right, There are indeed 100s of millions of Good Muslims folk across the world.   But they are NOT following the leader/his books to word to word what is there in them.

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: Isrealis attack Aid Convoy ships
     Reply #92 - June 01, 2010, 10:54 AM


    I don't agree with Israel's policies towards the Palestinians, but comparing it to Nazi Germany is way off the scale wrong.

    I have always made comparative studies in my mind between Israel and Pakistan. Both nations founded on the basis of exclusive religious nationalism, approximately the same age (Pakistan was founded in 1947, Israel in 1948), and both burdened by the extremities and violence that religious nationalism inevitably engenders.


    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Isrealis attack Aid Convoy ships
     Reply #93 - June 01, 2010, 12:00 PM

    What I find most disturbing about this episode, is the attempts by some Israeli sympathisers to justify the actions of the troops. The ship was boarded in international waters; there was no legal requirement for those on board the ship to allow the Israeli soldiers on. Had this been a ship boarded by Somali pirates in international waters, the crew would have been luaded as heros for resisting the pirates with whatever means they had ad their disposal, and rightly so.

    Ths Israeli PR machine has gone into overdrive, releasing grainy videos of 'attacks' by the protesters. 90 second clips with absolitely no context whatsover. I hope and pray that there isn't a major international fallout because of this. Israel would do well to apologise and, at least, to temporaily lift the blockade.

    ...nor shall they encompass aught of His knowledge, except as He willeth...
  • Re: Isrealis attack Aid Convoy ships
     Reply #94 - June 01, 2010, 12:03 PM

    Quote
    Had this been a ship boarded by Somali pirates in international waters, the crew would have been luaded as heros for resisting the pirates with whatever means they had ad their disposal, and rightly so.


    That's because Somali pirates would be intending to kidnap them and hold them for ransom, whereas the Israeli troops intended no such thing.  You are not making a fair comparison there, and while I agree Israel shouldn't have boarded the ship in the first place, the so called peace protesters are not blameless either.

    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Re: Isrealis attack Aid Convoy ships
     Reply #95 - June 01, 2010, 12:14 PM

    Cheetah,

    Perhaps you're right. The Somali pirates only want a ransom, whereas the Israeli soldiers want to strangle an entire country and shoot to kill in international waters in which they have no jurisdiction. The main gripe I have with the protesters, is that they KNEW this would happen. There must be another way to get aid into gaza, surely. Other than that, the israeli soldiers behaved attrociously. With or without provocation, you just do not board a food convoy in the middle of the night and start firing. There are protocols to be followed, and the Israelis chose to ignore these protocols.

    ...nor shall they encompass aught of His knowledge, except as He willeth...
  • Re: Isrealis attack Aid Convoy ships
     Reply #96 - June 01, 2010, 12:16 PM

    What I find most disturbing about this episode, is the attempts by some Israeli sympathisers to justify the actions of the troops. The ship was boarded in international waters; there was no legal requirement for those on board the ship to allow the Israeli soldiers on. Had this been a ship boarded by Somali pirates in international waters, the crew would have been luaded as heros for resisting the pirates with whatever means they had ad their disposal, and rightly so.

    Ths Israeli PR machine has gone into overdrive, releasing grainy videos of 'attacks' by the protesters. 90 second clips with absolitely no context whatsover.

    that is true dear Hassan but what else is left short of apology, which means present Israeli Govt  policy is in trouble and they defend it by blasting Hamas and Jihadis.

    this is what they say
    Quote
    FROM: Israeli Ministry of Foreign Affairs
    TO: Free Gaza Freedom Flotilla
    RE: Gaza Tourism Guide


    Dear Crazy People,

    We’ve been given to understand that you intend to stage another media stunt, wherein you’re again going to float some empty ships – they may be full this time, they were mostly empty last time – in the general direction of the Gaza Strip. Your hope is apparently that your cameramen will capture the Israeli reaction and edit it into an overreaction or, failing that, simply reprint your feverish fantasies with slack-jawed credulity. Again.

    Our problem isn’t so much that your goal involves obfuscating the millions of tons of food and aid we’ve delivered to Gaza civilians, which allowed Hamas to move money away from infrastructure and into weaponry, which led to more of our cities getting bombarded with rockets and missiles. It’s not even how, knowing that we deliver 15,000 tons of goods every week, your 10,000 tons of concrete isn’t exactly a shining testament to your good intentions. Not when just last week we handed over 810,209 liters of heavy duty diesel fuel, 21 truckloads of milk powder and baby food, 897 tons of cooking gas, 66 truckloads of fruits and vegetables, 51 truckloads of wheat, 27 truckloads of meat, chicken and fish products, 40 truckloads of dairy products, 117 truckloads of animal feed, 36 truckloads of hygiene products, 38 trucks of clothing, 22 trucks of sugar and 4 trucks of medicine and medical equipment. But again: not the issue.

    Really what we’re concerned about is that you suck at driving boats. Last time you only had one ship and you still managed to crash it because – of all things – you tried to outmaneuver an Israeli Navy vessel. This time you’re bringing nine boats. While we fully expect our Navy to interdict all of you, a legal and justified act under black letter maritime law, the odds are overwhelming that one of you tools is going to accidentally ground your boat. Given your obvious intention of creating a spectacle and your similarly obvious inability to manage same, it’s pretty much inevitable.

    If and when that happens, we’d like you to have at least some sense of how to survive in Gaza City. The alternative is you running across the border – complaining the whole time about our security checkpoints – and that would be awkward for everyone.

    So we’ve put together this Gaza Tourism Guide, complete with picture galleries, which we believe to be the most comprehensive ever assembled on the web.

    We know that after looking over everything, you’ll be as excited to stay in Gaza as we are to have you there. Feel free to pass this on at your ISM tabling sessions at Evergreen or whatever you people do on college campuses in between advocating genocide. And in the future, if you really want to repeatedly create Gaza media spectacles so you can damage Israel’s reputation, do what everyone else does. Join the UN.



    Quote
    Hassan:  I hope and pray that there isn't a major international fallout because of this. Israel would do well to apologise and, at least, to temporaily lift the blockade.

    huh! pray??  pray?  you don't  sound like Hassan I know.  well praying is only good for YOU.. you alone.,  unless you have big  crowd following you, and you  become a leader and pray along with them with killing and destroying public property..

    Any way when did you start praying dear Hassan?  and why that picture??

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: Isrealis attack Aid Convoy ships
     Reply #97 - June 01, 2010, 12:17 PM

    Quote
    The Somali pirates only want a ransom, whereas the Israeli soldiers want to strangle an entire country and shoot to kill in international waters in which they have no jurisdiction.


    You're missing the point.  Somali pirates boarding your ship poses an immediate threat against which you are justified in using self-defense.  IDF soldiers boarding your ship do not, and it was the height of stupidity to start attacking them.  You poke a tiger with a stick and you're going to get bitten.

    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Re: Isrealis attack Aid Convoy ships
     Reply #98 - June 01, 2010, 12:33 PM

    Given the IDF's record  (it's far from pretty), i would contend that they do pose an immediate theft in pretty much any situation! Moreso than any somali pirates. The problem is, Cheetah, is that you assume that an army is inherently more responsible than a rag-tag group of gurellias. WHat is an army, except a group of men who are trained to kill in the most efficient way possible?

    ...nor shall they encompass aught of His knowledge, except as He willeth...
  • Re: Isrealis attack Aid Convoy ships
     Reply #99 - June 01, 2010, 12:39 PM

    Your contention doesn't hold water.  If armed soldiers board a ship and find themselves under assault by those on board of course they are going to shoot.  Now you can harbour as many dark suspicions about the IDF as you like, but there is no reason to think that nine people would have ended up dead if the protesters hadn't been so stupid as to attack the soldiers.  Like I said, if you poke a tiger with a stick you can expect to get bitten.

    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Re: Isrealis attack Aid Convoy ships
     Reply #100 - June 01, 2010, 12:42 PM

    Given the IDF's record  (it's far from pretty), i would contend that they do pose an immediate theft in pretty much any situation! Moreso than any somali pirates. The problem is, Cheetah, is that you assume that an army is inherently more responsible than a rag-tag group of gurellias. WHat is an army, except a group of men who are trained to kill in the most efficient way possible?

    You don't seem to have ever spoken to any military personnel. I suggest you do. You will find out that a large part of their training concerns when not to kill.

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Isrealis attack Aid Convoy ships
     Reply #101 - June 01, 2010, 12:44 PM

    That's because Somali pirates would be intending to kidnap them and hold them for ransom, whereas the Israeli troops intended no such thing. 


    Hey, wait a second, that is exactly what is currently happening. The passengers of the boats are being held by the Israelis.
  • Re: Isrealis attack Aid Convoy ships
     Reply #102 - June 01, 2010, 12:45 PM

    This argument can go round in circles. Yes, any army which is under attack (this is questionable in the case of Flotilla, but let's give the IDF the benefit of the doubt) will respond. But the presence of the IDF on the boat was illegal. Their blockade is illegal. Their murder of innocnet civillians on the boat was illegal. There is absolutely no legal or moral justification for what they did.  

    ...nor shall they encompass aught of His knowledge, except as He willeth...
  • Re: Isrealis attack Aid Convoy ships
     Reply #103 - June 01, 2010, 12:50 PM

    Lets see:

    - The israelis stormed the ships in international waters. However, the activists declared the intention to break the blockade, so one could argue that the intention to commit an illegal act justifies the israeli action. So if one insists on the "international waters" argument the question is, whether the declared intention to break a blockade justifies a boarding operation or not. Does the declared intention to commit an illegal act justify an intervention?

    - Of course one could raise the question, whether the blockade itself is justified.

    - The activists wanted conflict by rejecting the israeli offer to deliver the cargo after a check by israelis. Some of them also attacked the soldiers and would probably have killed several of them, if the israelis had not opened fire. So in my oppinion it was understandable, that the soldiers defended themselfes - even if the operation itself is debatable. The violence was (probably) started by the angry mob and not by the soldiers.

    - Another question is, whether the boarding of the israelis was appropriate or not. Couldn`t the just have blocked the ships or disable them? The boarding was probably not the best decision, but in my oppinion that doesn`t mean, that israel is to blame for any outcome. Nevertheless they should find better ways of stopping a ship next time.

    - Israels politics: Blocking the gaza strip may be an efficient short term solution for israel, but on the long term the population there will increase and the conflict will not be solved. Instead more and more people will be without perspective and tend to violence. I don`t think that israel has any plan to solve that problem.

    UG
  • Re: Isrealis attack Aid Convoy ships
     Reply #104 - June 01, 2010, 12:57 PM

    Hey, wait a second, that is exactly what is currently happening. The passengers of the boats are being held by the Israelis.


    Really?  How much ransom are they demanding?

    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Re: Isrealis attack Aid Convoy ships
     Reply #105 - June 01, 2010, 12:59 PM

    Quote
    But the presence of the IDF on the boat was illegal.


    Agreed.

    Quote
    Their blockade is illegal.


    Possibly agreed.

    Quote
    Their murder of innocnet civillians on the boat was illegal.


    Disagree.  They did not murder innocent civilians, they fired on people who had very stupidly attacked them.  Big difference.

    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Re: Isrealis attack Aid Convoy ships
     Reply #106 - June 01, 2010, 01:02 PM

    This argument can go round in circles. Yes, any army which is under attack (this is questionable in the case of Flotilla, but let's give the IDF the benefit of the doubt) will respond. But the presence of the IDF on the boat was illegal. Their blockade is illegal. Their murder of innocnet civillians on the boat was illegal. There is absolutely no legal or moral justification for what they did.  

    Hang on a second. I agree the boardings were probably illegal, although I have seen arguments that they may not have been. I'm not an expert on maritime law but there are provisions for boarding ships if you have grounds to think they may be carrying weapons that would aid your enemies. I don't know whether or not that would stand up in this particular case. I'll assume for the sake of discussion that the boardings were indeed illegal.

    The blockade sucks too. I'm not going to argue that point, but I will add a stipulation. The blockade sucks not because it imposes restrictions on what can go through, but because it stops a lot of what should go through. In other words, I think the Israelis would be stupid to not check for weapons but they should let as much humanitarian aid through as possible.

    The next bit is where I think you may be wrong, bearing in mind that all we have to go on are media reports and all of those are showing signs of their own biases.

    If we were talking about a crowd who were shot for merely sitting on their arses and doing absolutely nothing else then yes, I would have no hesitation in calling that "murder of innocent civilians". That doesn't seem to have been the case here though. Far from it.

    Five other ships were boarded without any trouble at all. Only one ship got into a fight with the IDF. It happened to be the same ship that was carrying members of a Turkish Islamist group who were singing about the armies of Mohammed as they left Turkey. These people apparently armed themselves with anything and everything they had on board and proceeded to attack the IDF soldiers as soon as they boarded, and gave every indication of meaning to kill as many as possible. Two of the IDF soldiers were shot with their own weapons before anyone else was shot, if I understand the reports correctly. Under these circumstances I think it would be expected for the IDF soldiers to fire back in self defence.

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Isrealis attack Aid Convoy ships
     Reply #107 - June 01, 2010, 01:08 PM

    Really?  How much ransom are they demanding?


    Don't need to demand ransom for it to be kidnapping.
  • Re: Isrealis attack Aid Convoy ships
     Reply #108 - June 01, 2010, 01:10 PM

    Not every detention is kidnapping either. 

    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Re: Isrealis attack Aid Convoy ships
     Reply #109 - June 01, 2010, 01:12 PM

    Disagree.  They did not murder innocent civilians, they fired on people who had very stupidly attacked them.  Big difference.


    They had no right to be there in the first place. The boarding the foreign ships was an unjustified act of aggression, so they cannot claim self-defence.

    I am very certain this was planned by the organizers of the ships beforehand: To provoke violence to make the Israelis side look bad. But that doesn't excuse Israel's actions.

    The action was meant by its organizers to highlight inhumaneness of the blockade and Israel's missing respect for foreign life, and it succeeded in doing so.
  • Re: Isrealis attack Aid Convoy ships
     Reply #110 - June 01, 2010, 01:24 PM

    +1

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Isrealis attack Aid Convoy ships
     Reply #111 - June 01, 2010, 01:30 PM

    Yup. I think it was a setup and the IDF stumbled right into it.

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Isrealis attack Aid Convoy ships
     Reply #112 - June 01, 2010, 01:35 PM

    huh! pray??  pray?  you don't  sound like Hassan I know.  well praying is only good for YOU.. you alone.,  unless you have big  crowd following you, and you  become a leader and pray along with them with killing and destroying public property..

    Any way when did you start praying dear Hassan?  and why that picture??


    That's because he isn't the Hassan you know Wink This guy is another Hassan, and is muslim.

    He's no friend to the friendless
    And he's the mother of grief
    There's only sorrow for tomorrow
    Surely life is too brief
  • Re: Isrealis attack Aid Convoy ships
     Reply #113 - June 01, 2010, 01:44 PM

    Here, thats where the ship departed from turkey:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qJ6giFryCY0&feature=player_embedded

    UG
  • Re: Isrealis attack Aid Convoy ships
     Reply #114 - June 01, 2010, 01:44 PM

    The action was meant by its organizers to highlight inhumaneness of the blockade and Israel's missing respect for foreign life, and it succeeded in doing so.

    True. However they have successfully proven another point too. And a far more disturbing one for that matter.

    Lack of respect for any life by some participants and especially by organizers of this convoy.
  • Re: Isrealis attack Aid Convoy ships
     Reply #115 - June 01, 2010, 02:09 PM

    IMO, it's all a bit of a mess and there seems to be responsibility on both sides.

    From what I have seen, I think that the Israelis should have been better prepared for this situation and may have been negligent.  They were climbing on board a boat filled with ideologues at the very least: so why didn't they have "crowd control" weapons?
  • Re: Isrealis attack Aid Convoy ships
     Reply #116 - June 01, 2010, 03:01 PM

    Here, thats where the ship departed from turkey:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qJ6giFryCY0&feature=player_embedded

    UG


    Look at that video., what are these guys this International fools  doing on those ships with all those Flags and noise??   I got to find these 48 names and addresses to write e-mails to them..

    look at this one.,
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=of9dBwsIHuA

    Turkey is effectively became Islamic and went far away from that Mustafa Kemal Atatürk's idea of Independent Turkey to ISLAMIC TURKEY.    that is a +ve news from this tragedy., EU  better note that.

    Ha!.,  I got one western turkey from that ship, the news says http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5hEayNu1QjklG3o6putXYQ3b6kM5gD9G2ANIO0

    Quote
    WASHINGTON — A former U.S. ambassador aboard a Gaza aid ship seized by Israeli commandos is on his way home, his wife said Monday evening.

    Edward Peck, 81, of Chevy Chase, Md., a Washington suburb, was among activists in the flotilla trying to get humanitarian aid to Gaza, Ann Peck said in a phone interview with The Associated Press.

    She said she received a brief e-mail from Israel's foreign ministry on Monday informing her that her husband was fine and headed home. The e-mail said he would likely arrive Tuesday, didn't have a cell phone with him and would call from a New York airport when he landed, she said, adding that it didn't say which airport.

    She seemed to take the situation, including numerous phone calls from news organizations, in stride.

    "He gets himself into these messes, and the phone is going to ring," she joked.

    Ann Peck said that as of Monday evening she hadn't spoken with U.S. officials, nor was she able to talk to her husband, a former U.S. ambassador to Mauritania, since the raid. She said she last spoke with him briefly by satellite phone just as the aid ships were leaving their rendezvous point.

    "Knowing him I doubt there are regrets," she said. "I think he was really hopeful of it making a difference."

     Hmm., let me write to  Mrs. Ann Peck  to  Lock up this 81 year old Turkey in Home. what is he doing on that ship along with 25 year old Jihadis??

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: Isrealis attack Aid Convoy ships
     Reply #117 - June 01, 2010, 03:08 PM

    There is a larger mystery surrounding this that no one has adressed.

    We all know that the Western media is controlled by the Zionists, yet they seem to be almost unanimously critical to this action.
    This must mean that Israel actually wants everyone to get angry with them...

    (... or maybe this is one of those occasions where it is pretty much proved that Zionists do not run the media  Roll Eyes).

    Bukhari 62:142 - Narrated Anas bin Malik:
       The Prophet used to pass by (have sexual relation with) all his wives in one night, and at that time he had nine wives.
  • Re: Isrealis attack Aid Convoy ships
     Reply #118 - June 01, 2010, 03:14 PM

    Quote
    There is a larger mystery surrounding this that no one has adressed.

    We all know that the Western media is controlled by the Zionists, yet they seem to be almost unanimously critical to this action.


    here is ONE AMERICAN JEW who speaks on that tragedy..

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eB_CKL5h2_8

    Norman Finkelstein is a JEW.. born to JEWS..

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: Isrealis attack Aid Convoy ships
     Reply #119 - June 01, 2010, 03:15 PM

    There is a larger mystery surrounding this that no one has adressed.

    We all know that the Western media is controlled by the Zionists, yet they seem to be almost unanimously critical to this action.
    This must mean that Israel actually wants everyone to get angry with them...

    (... or maybe this is one of those occasions where it is pretty much proved that Zionists do not run the media  Roll Eyes).


    Which is akin to the Jewish mayor of New York City giving his blessing for a mega-mosque two blocks from ground zero. The Jihadists will not believe it though, they're too busy chasing Zionist squirrels...http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0%2C7340%2CL-3425130%2C00.html

    So when the very same people cry out that this incident was an organised massacre of innocent peace activitists, you know they're trustworthy and rational.
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