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 Topic: Isrealis attack Aid Convoy ships

 (Read 108189 times)
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  • Re: Isrealis attack Aid Convoy ships
     Reply #120 - June 01, 2010, 03:30 PM

       
    Quote
    Quote
    Gaza mission activist: It's just like facing Nazis

    http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3894282,00.html

    Greek professor on ship heading to Gaza likens mission to Greek aid in face of Nazis during World War II; Swedish participant concerned about IDF response, hopes Israel allows activists to 'meet our Palestinian brothers'

    Eight ships are already making their way through the Mediterranean towards the Gaza Strip in, the framework of a European aid mission - with activists aboard the vessels likening their work to the anti-Nazi effort during World War II.

    "We're helping the Palestinians, just like the Greeks helped during World War II against the Nazis," a Greek activist aboard one of the ships told Ynet Tuesday. The mission was organized by Turkish group IHH as well as other leftist European organizations. The activists taking part in the sailing operation also expressed their fear that the IDF will prevent them from arriving at their destination.

     The Greek activist, university professor Vangelis Pissias, told Ynet that he is concerned about harm to human rights anywhere in the world.
      "Just like we don't accept the Israeli behavior in Gaza, we will not accept it anywhere," he said. He added that the mission is an anti-violent act, and that participants only wish to offer aid to Gazans and bring the message that "we won't let any military force to keep them in prison."

     
    'It will be a comedy'

    The professor stressed that he has nothing against Jews and that he even has Jewish friends. However, he refused to condemn Palestinian terrorism. "These people are doing what reality causes them to do," he said.


    Turning his attention to World War II, he added: "Back then we helped the refugees, and we're doing it now too. The Palestinians have the same feelings, they are under attack…and they're fighting for it for lack of other choice."

    "The whole world watched Israel's serious crimes in Gaza about a year and a half ago," he said. "Humanity cannot accept it."


    My Man Professor.. you are confused., don't mix ISLAMIC RIGHTS WITH HUMAN RIGHTS.

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: Isrealis attack Aid Convoy ships
     Reply #121 - June 01, 2010, 03:46 PM

    Quote
    Swedish history professor Mattias Gardel, who will also be heading to Gaza aboard one of the ships, told Ynet mission participants are concerned about human rights in Gaza and do not aim to assault anyone.


    Gardel expressed his concern over the prospect of an Israeli military response to the aid mission, stressing that the activists aboard the ships are unarmed.


    "We're unarmed, yet they are armed and will be coming with their Navy and commandoes – it will be a comedy," he said. "All of these forces against us. We urge the government to stop the fighters, open the door, and allow us to meet our Palestinian brothers."

    Huh!..  Mattias Gardel..dear Mattias Gardel  you are a fool., Islamic Turkeys played a joke on you and you became a turkey in this tragedy.  What are those  40 or so 25 year old Muslim Jihadis doing on those ships??  Palestinian brothers are all right but be careful about MUSLIM BROTHER FOOD sleeping under  Palestinian brothers...

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: Isrealis attack Aid Convoy ships
     Reply #122 - June 01, 2010, 06:52 PM

    Osmanthus,
    Hang on a second. I agree the boardings were probably illegal, although I have seen arguments that they may not have been. I'm not an expert on maritime law but there are provisions for boarding ships if you have grounds to think they may be carrying weapons that would aid your enemies. I don't know whether or not that would stand up in this particular case. I'll assume for the sake of discussion that the boardings were indeed illegal.


    Again, I'm no expert. But it would seem as though those international waters off the coast of Gaza strip should be under the jurisdiction of the Palestinian authorities, and not Israel.

    Quote
    The blockade sucks too. I'm not going to argue that point, but I will add a stipulation. The blockade sucks not because it imposes restrictions on what can go through, but because it stops a lot of what should go through. In other words, I think the Israelis would be stupid to not check for weapons but they should let as much humanitarian aid through as possible.


    I actually agree with this. But I believe that is should work both ways - Stop arms to the palestinians. Stop arms to Israel.

    Quote
    The next bit is where I think you may be wrong, bearing in mind that all we have to go on are media reports and all of those are showing signs of their own biases.

    If we were talking about a crowd who were shot for merely sitting on their arses and doing absolutely nothing else then yes, I would have no hesitation in calling that "murder of innocent civilians". That doesn't seem to have been the case here though. Far from it.


    But we are talking about a group of aid convoys being boarded illegally. It's easy to get bogged down by claiming that the protesters were being violent and provocative, but that's a red herring. It's the IDF who prompted that response by boarding the ship with weapons, wearing masks, and in the middle of the night.

    Quote
    Five other ships were boarded without any trouble at all. Only one ship got into a fight with the IDF. It happened to be the same ship that was carrying members of a Turkish Islamist group who were singing about the armies of Mohammed as they left Turkey. These people apparently armed themselves with anything and everything they had on board and proceeded to attack the IDF soldiers as soon as they boarded, and gave every indication of meaning to kill as many as possible. Two of the IDF soldiers were shot with their own weapons before anyone else was shot, if I understand the reports correctly. Under these circumstances I think it would be expected for the IDF soldiers to fire back in self defence.


    Again, this is where comnflicting reports come enter the equations. However, I am hughely impressed with the IDF PR machine that even after comitting what is universally condenmed as an act of barabarism, that they still manage to put out a story which shifts the blame. It never seems to be their fault, does it? The bombing of Gaza. The anexxing of palestinian land. Settlement building. Blockades. All were provoked.

    ...nor shall they encompass aught of His knowledge, except as He willeth...
  • Re: Isrealis attack Aid Convoy ships
     Reply #123 - June 01, 2010, 07:59 PM

    The Israelis were vicsiously attacked, but they should have predicted it. What a stupid tactic. Imagine if the London police acted like that? "Oh there is a mob of angry skinheads, let's get a helicopter and have policemen repel one at a time into the middle mob. If they get into trouble we'll shoot to kill."

    My style is impetuous, my defense is impregnable and I'm just ferocious. I want your heart. I want to eat your children. Praise be to Allah." -- Mike Tyson
  • Re: Isrealis attack Aid Convoy ships
     Reply #124 - June 01, 2010, 08:02 PM

    Yes, and just to make matters worse, lets imagine this angry mob are inside their own private property and the police are intruding

    My Book     news002       
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  • Re: Isrealis attack Aid Convoy ships
     Reply #125 - June 01, 2010, 08:09 PM

    cuckoo states are evenly spread across the world now. israel, iran, pakistan, north korea. the americas are the only safe places now.
  • Re: Isrealis attack Aid Convoy ships
     Reply #126 - June 01, 2010, 08:36 PM

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WzYnozf0P5c
  • Re: Isrealis attack Aid Convoy ships
     Reply #127 - June 01, 2010, 08:38 PM

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DzSX-U4yaZ8&feature=youtube_gdata

    ...
  • Re: Isrealis attack Aid Convoy ships
     Reply #128 - June 01, 2010, 08:46 PM

    2. Who exactly was on board?

    Yes, there was a smattering of earnest women-with-honest calves-types but also a heavy contingent from a radical Islamist group known as IHH (hat-tip Tom Gross Media). In this Al Jazeera clip (hat-tip: PMW) one can see passengers, pre-embarkation, getting into the spirit of thing by singing “Khaibar, Khaibar, oh Jews! The army of Muhammad will return!” (Khaibar is the name of last Jewish village defeated by Muhammad’s army and it marked the end of Jewish presence in Arabia in 628.) Then, in an echo of the Hamas chieftain’s statement that this would be a win-win, a woman tells Al Jazeera, “Right now we face one of two happy endings: either Martyrdom or reaching Gaza.”
  • Re: Isrealis attack Aid Convoy ships
     Reply #129 - June 01, 2010, 09:44 PM

    Where did you get that quote? You should link to your source.

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Isrealis attack Aid Convoy ships
     Reply #130 - June 01, 2010, 10:40 PM

    I posted this earlier.
    For those of you who think Israel can just enter someone's boat on International Waters like that, need to read this
    Quote
    ECTION I : SCOPE OF APPLICATION OF THE LAW

    1. The parties to an armed conflict at sea are bound by the principles and rules of international humanitarian law from the moment armed force is used.

    2. In cases not covered by this document or by international agreements, civilians and combatants remain under the protection and authority of the principles of international law derived from established custom, from the principles of humanity and from the dictates of the public conscience.


    SECTION III : ENEMY VESSELS AND AIRCRAFT EXEMPT FROM ATTACK

    47. The following classes of enemy vessels are exempt from attack:

    (ii) vessels engaged in humanitarian missions, including vessels carrying supplies indispensable to the survival of the civilian population, and vessels engaged in relief actions and rescue operations;

    102. The declaration or establishment of a blockade is prohibited if:

    (a) it has the sole purpose of STARVING THE CIVILIAN POPULATION or denying it other objects essential for its survival; or
    (b) the damage to the civilian population is, or may be expected to be, excessive in relation to the concrete and direct military advantage anticipated from the blockade.

    103. If the civilian population of the blockaded territory is inadequately provided with food and other objects essential for its survival, the blockading party MUST PROVIDE FOR FREE PASSAGE  of such foodstuffs and other essential supplies.

  • Re: Isrealis attack Aid Convoy ships
     Reply #131 - June 01, 2010, 10:44 PM

    That doesn't really cover this. The blockade does not have the sole purpose of starving the civilian population. Clause (b) might be a better fit but the lawyers could argue that until Doomsday. Also, the Israelis weren't trying to stop the passage of foodstuffs. It's other things they want to stop (which apparently and stupidly includes building materials).

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Isrealis attack Aid Convoy ships
     Reply #132 - June 01, 2010, 10:47 PM

    Call me an AntiSemite all you want I dont give a hoot, I am an Atheist and when I see Peaceful Activist getting killed like that, all I can is F--K the Israelis


     
       
    ....................../´¯/)
    ....................,/¯../
    .................../..../
    ............./´¯/'...'/´¯¯`·¸
    ........../'/.../..../......./¨¯\
    ........('(...´...´.... ¯~/'...')
    .........\.................'...../
    ..........''...\.......... _.·´
    ............\..............(     ISRAEL
    ..............\.............\...               
  • Re: Isrealis attack Aid Convoy ships
     Reply #133 - June 01, 2010, 10:48 PM

    They weren't peaceful. That's the point.

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Isrealis attack Aid Convoy ships
     Reply #134 - June 01, 2010, 10:49 PM

    That doesn't really cover this. The blockade does not have the sole purpose of starving the civilian population. Clause (b) might be a better fit but the lawyers could argue that until Doomsday. Also, the Israelis weren't trying to stop the passage of foodstuffs. It's other things they want to stop (which apparently and stupidly includes building materials).



    SECTION III : ENEMY VESSELS AND AIRCRAFT EXEMPT FROM ATTACK

    47. The following classes of enemy vessels are exempt from attack:

    (ii) vessels engaged in humanitarian missions, including vessels carrying supplies indispensable to the survival of the civilian population, and vessels engaged in relief actions and rescue operations;
  • Re: Isrealis attack Aid Convoy ships
     Reply #135 - June 01, 2010, 10:51 PM

    They weren't peaceful. That's the point.


    You only see videos released by Israeli Media.

    Why hasn't the Israeli Government have allowed the Media to access the Activists? No one can talk to them

    What happens to their Cameras, video cameras and phone cameras? Did the Israeli government confiscate it? Did they tamper with any evidence?

    All I see bunch of Activists in International Waters protecting themselves from Foreign troops swarming into their boats

    The activists should have beaten those scums to death. Too bad they let them off easy

    One of the World's "best" Special Operations Commandos my rear end. Whining about getting "Attacked" while Attacking people with full loaded guns.
  • Re: Isrealis attack Aid Convoy ships
     Reply #136 - June 01, 2010, 10:53 PM

    Where did you get that quote? You should link to your source.


    The whole text of HO`s post is a link to :

    http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/stephaniegutmann/100041771/gaza-flotilla-assault-what-really-happened-aboard-the-mavi-marmara/

    Like a compass needle that points north, a man?s accusing finger always finds a woman. Always.

    Khaled Hosseini - A thousand splendid suns.
  • Re: Isrealis attack Aid Convoy ships
     Reply #137 - June 01, 2010, 10:54 PM

    What I see is one bloke coming down a rope and immediately having the shit beaten out of him by a stack of people.

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Isrealis attack Aid Convoy ships
     Reply #138 - June 01, 2010, 10:58 PM

    What I see is one bloke coming down a rope and immediately having the shit beaten out of him by a stack of people.


    Yes.
    A small short frame of video without any detail of what happens before released by the Israeli Government.

    I can punch you in the face and you can punch me back. But if show the world the video of the part where you punch me back and say its your fault, doesn't really show any credibility.
  • Re: Isrealis attack Aid Convoy ships
     Reply #139 - June 01, 2010, 11:05 PM

    Of course, but you don't have any evidence for your assumption either.

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Isrealis attack Aid Convoy ships
     Reply #140 - June 01, 2010, 11:09 PM

    Witnesses cast doubt on Israel's convoy raid account

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/10208027.stm

    Eyewitness accounts from ships raided by Israeli commandos have cast doubt on Israel's version of events that led to the deaths of at least nine people.

    German pro-Palestinian activist Norman Paech said he had only seen wooden sticks being brandished as troops abseiled on to the deck of the ship.

    Israel says its soldiers were attacked with "knives, clubs and other weapons" and opened fire in self-defence.

    The raid led to widespread condemnation and the UN has called for an inquiry.

    US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton said on Tuesday that Washington would support an Israeli investigation of the raid, but said it must be "prompt, impartial, credible and transparent", as called for by the UN.

    The six ships, carrying aid and campaigners, had sailed from Cyprus in a bid to break Israel's blockade of the Gaza Strip.

    Israel seized more than 670 people with the ships and deported 50 on Tuesday. The Israeli cabinet later announced that all those still being held would be deported within 48 hours.

    'Act of piracy'

    Speaking as he arrived back in Berlin wrapped in a blue blanket, Mr Paech, a member of a German opposition party, said Israel's operation "was not an act of self-defence".

    "Personally I saw two-and-a-half wooden batons that were used... There was really nothing else. We never saw any knives.

    "This was an attack in international waters on a peaceful mission... This was a clear act of piracy," he added.

    Mr Paech had been a passenger on the Turkish passenger ship Mavi Marmara where most, if not all, of the deaths occurred.

    Fellow German activist Inge Hoeger said they had been on the ships "for peaceful purposes".

    "We wanted to transport aid to Gaza," she said. "No-one had a weapon."

    She added: "We were aware that this would not be a simple cruise across the sea to deliver the goods to Gaza. But we did not count on this kind of brutality."

    Activist Bayram Kalyon, arriving back in Istanbul, had also been a passenger on the Mavi Marmara.

    "The captain... told us 'They are firing randomly, they are breaking the windows and entering inside. So you should get out of here as soon as possible'. That was our last conversation with him."

    Meanwhile, in Nazareth, Israeli Arab MP Haneen Zuabi - who was on the flotilla - told a press conference that Israeli forces began firing while still in the helicopters hovering over the ships.

    "We are calling for an international committee to investigate this tragedy," she said.

    Diplomatic sources in Ankara have said at least four of those killed were Turkish. Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan said the assault was a "bloody massacre" and must be punished. He said Israel should not test Turkey's patience.

    Further criticism of Israel came from UN Secretary General Ban Ki-moon on Tuesday.

    In an interview with the AFP news agency, he said Israel's blockade of Gaza was responsible for the deadly raid.

    "Had Israelis heeded to my call and to the call of the international community by lifting the blockade of Gaza, this tragic incident would not have happened," he said.

    Nato Secretary General Anders Fogh Rasmussen called on Israel to release people and boats it had seized.

    He spoke after an emergency meeting of Nato ambassadors in Brussels called by Turkey.
  • Re: Isrealis attack Aid Convoy ships
     Reply #141 - June 01, 2010, 11:20 PM

    That is a really interesting article since it refutes the video that I posted above. Hmm ... interesting ...
  • Re: Isrealis attack Aid Convoy ships
     Reply #142 - June 01, 2010, 11:25 PM

    From the blog of the correspondent in Israel of one of the Danish TV networks :

    Quote
    If the pro-Palestinian activists only sincere and honest desire was to bring humanitarian aid to the beleaguered civilian population in the Gaza Strip , they could have sailed to the Israeli port of Ashdod and have unloaded their cargo there. The Israelis had promised to bring the civilian, humanitarian aid into the Gaza Strip after having checked it. If the activists did not trust the Israelis, which they assuredly did not, the Egyptians had made the same offer. The activists could unload all the goods in El Arish on the Sinai's coast, and the Egyptians would then bring it  to the Palestinians.


    But the activists rejected both offers, because this was not about humanitarian assistance. This was about confrontation with the Israelis. It was the confrontation, and not least the TV images of it, which would swing world opinion against Israel and force the government to lift the blockade of the Gaza Strip. So the confrontation was the target. Not delivering the cargo.


    http://blog.tv2.dk/steffen-jensen.tv2/entry372571.html?ss

    Like a compass needle that points north, a man?s accusing finger always finds a woman. Always.

    Khaled Hosseini - A thousand splendid suns.
  • Re: Isrealis attack Aid Convoy ships
     Reply #143 - June 01, 2010, 11:26 PM

    Come on Everyone lets sing Israeli Apologists' favorite song

    Spin Spin Spin the truth so Israeli can win

    Merrily, Merrily, Merrily, Merrily

    Life is all but a sin
  • Re: Isrealis attack Aid Convoy ships
     Reply #144 - June 01, 2010, 11:31 PM

    And of course the other side never spins anything.

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Isrealis attack Aid Convoy ships
     Reply #145 - June 01, 2010, 11:39 PM

    This episode is not really that complicated.

    Convoy of pro-Palestinian campaigners & activists sets off to break Israeli blockade and deliver aid direct to Gaza.

    They knew the Israelis would try and stop them, but as the German politician who was on board said they; "were all told that this was going to be a peaceful convoy and they must resist only politically and civilly"

    They were in international waters when boarded by armed soldiers.

    Some on board decided to resist and hit the soldiers with sticks as they boarded.

    Soldiers fired back and Killed 9.


  • Re: Isrealis attack Aid Convoy ships
     Reply #146 - June 01, 2010, 11:42 PM

    That is one way of phrasing it. However as I said to someone else, if I get an axe handle and use it to beat the crap out of you will you then tell me that sticks aren't worth worrying about?

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Isrealis attack Aid Convoy ships
     Reply #147 - June 01, 2010, 11:46 PM

    Or to phrase it another way, if you have a guy on the ground how long would it take you to kill him with an axe handle if you really wanted to?

    I reckon you could do it in a few minutes if your aim was any good. Less if you have ten friends helping you.

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Isrealis attack Aid Convoy ships
     Reply #148 - June 01, 2010, 11:48 PM

    A few weapons/things we can see in the video used to attack the soldiers:
    - metal pole
    - stun grenade
    - firebomb
    - mob like beating
  • Re: Isrealis attack Aid Convoy ships
     Reply #149 - June 01, 2010, 11:49 PM

    Just a comment: Where there is an emotional attachment, I think the chances of clear objective thinking is reduced.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_emotion

    I am by no means saying this topic is conclusive, evidentially not, just wanted to point that out ...
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