That's not my point. Why are you upholding the opinions of the scholars as if they are divine and infallible?
I am not, I am trying to use the only Islamic sources we have on this matter.
Why aren't you using your precious reason/logic to interpret the facts as we know them instead of just swallowing what someone else gave? That's a sheepish mentality that you all are supposed to be against.
If I were to use my scientific ones that tell me we evolved from monkeys...
And what "science" would that be again?
...and that the Islamic Sky God is bogus...
Are you honestly saying that science can prove there is no God? Oh, I can't wait for this...
If I told you my personal opinion you would right dismiss it too (in the same way I do yours). What else am I supposed to do?
We are two human beings who are full of personal opinion as to what the facts as we know them mean. There is nothing wrong with us discussing the merits of each of our opinions and comparing them.
It IS at odds with what I think. That's why I'm arguing it. Duh.
I said what you "would like to think" - what I and you would like to think means nothing in a world where you want to ascertain knowledge. [/quote]
Hypotheses and theories are the speculative opinions from men as to what the categoried facts of science may or may not mean. ALL scientists theorize based on what they would like to think something is... like your evolved from monkey "science" you mentioned earlier. I take issue with the concept of your priestly scientific elite having a monopoly on opinions.
Sometimes we have to face facts and believe things we dont want to.
Are you saying you repent and agree to believe in God again?
Believe me I wish life after death were true, and I would endeavour to spend the rest of my lifetime in heaven where I could once see dearly passed away loved ones again. But sadly wanting something to be true, does not make it true.
I know. Fortunately we get to accept the Omniscient One at His word so it's not as big a deal as you make it out to be. Just believe, IsLame. Stop making it so complicated.
What are you? Five years old?
Ageist
But it is okay for an agnostic to accept the opinions of men even when they are held together only by traditiion and fly in the face of reason/logic?
Nice try, see above[/quote]
The facts mean more than simply what tradition says it does. Few things will send people to hell more often than man-made traditions and opinions that are chiseled into stone as if it is divine in and of itself. It really is odd when you who hold so tightly to your idols of Reason & Logic act that way about the traditions of hadith. It really does say much about the nature of your transgresion from Islam.
What does the fact that the prophet had a personable scribe mean in your world?
Its a good start, but how do we even know he wrote exactly what the prophet wanted.
He WAS the Prophet of Allah after all. I'm sure he would know if his personal scribe was an agent of the satan.
And nobody says (apart from you ) that he compiled the current version.
Okay, well
WHY AREN'T THEY?
That's me honestly attempting to appeal to your sense of intellect/reason/logic that you hold so dear.Dont know why you are twisting this to such an extent...
lol
What am I "twisting" exactly?
...if he didnt write it, would your faith change?
Are you asking me, "If it turned out that Muhammad wasn't the messenger of Allah, would you still be Muslim?"
There's an easy way to check this, all we need to do is see if they have carbon-dated the Quran.
"Easy???" Dude, there cannot possibly be a Qur'an left from Muhammad's lifetime. Those must have crumbled into dust or something.
Topic: Peace, All