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Theme Changer

 Topic: Conservative MP Philip Hollobone's bid to ban the burka

 (Read 45479 times)
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  • Re: Conservative MP Philip Hollobone's bid to ban the burka
     Reply #120 - July 18, 2010, 06:16 PM


    What I find especially interesting is that in polls Europeans tend to favour the ban whereas Americans do not.


    Americans are far more libertarian my view than Europeans..  which is why I have more respect for them than I have for certain other Europeans.  There seems to be a dislike of big governments there

    "Modern man's great illusion has been to convince himself that of all that has gone before he represents the zenith of human accomplishment, but can't summon the mental powers to read anything more demanding than emoticons. Fascinating. "

    One very horny Turk I met on the net.
  • Re: Conservative MP Philip Hollobone's bid to ban the burka
     Reply #121 - July 18, 2010, 06:18 PM

    Americans are far more libertarian my view than Europeans..  which is why I have more respect for them then I have for certain other Europeans.  There seems to a big dislike of big governments there


    I love the United States as well.
    It has always been more superior when it comes to things like this.
    Europeans are much more likely to throw away their freedoms for a bit of temporary security.

    I have much more respect for US than I ever will France who has also collapsed into the "Fear the Burqa" frenzy.

    Blind faith is an ironic gift to return to the Creator of human intelligence

  • Re: Conservative MP Philip Hollobone's bid to ban the burka
     Reply #122 - July 19, 2010, 05:41 AM

    As Q-Man once beautifully put it: "in America there is a natural distrust of the state".

    They have their problems though.....
  • Re: Conservative MP Philip Hollobone's bid to ban the burka
     Reply #123 - July 19, 2010, 06:11 AM

    Quote from: Iraqi Atheist
    As Q-Man once beautifully put it: "in America there is a natural distrust of the state".

    They have their problems though.....


    Such as?

    The mosque: the most epic display of collective douchbaggery, arrogance and delusion
  • Re: Conservative MP Philip Hollobone's bid to ban the burka
     Reply #124 - July 19, 2010, 07:32 AM

    Such as?


    They are behind in gay rights:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gay_rights_around_the_world
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gay_rights_around_the_world#North_America
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:World_homosexuality_laws.svg

    They have the highest incarceration rate in the world surpassing even the most authoritarian countries in the world:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_incarceration_rate

    Yet they aren't the exactly the safest country in the world:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Peace_Index
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_murder_rate

    Heathcare costs are horrendous and coverage is abysmal:
    http://www.photius.com/rankings/healthranks.html
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uninsured_in_the_United_States

    They have one of the highest income inequality figures among developed Western nations:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gini_index (check map)

    And contrary to popular belief, it's not the freest country in the world:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Privacy_International#Privacy_index
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Press_Freedom_Index

    Nor does it have the highest standards of living:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_Human_Development_Index
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quality-of-Life_Index

    Also, they're too religious for my liking and their society and politics are less secular than most Western European nations:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irreligion_by_country (check map)
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Gallup_Religiosity_Index_2009.png
    http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Atheists_Agnostics_Zuckerman_en.svg
    http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Religious_importance.png
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creation%E2%80%93evolution_controversy#Outside_the_United_States (check graph)


    Oh and they vote stupid politicians. I don't think a Sarah Palin-like politician would be nearly as popular in France, Germany, Spain, or the UK.
  • Re: Conservative MP Philip Hollobone's bid to ban the burka
     Reply #125 - July 19, 2010, 07:41 AM

    I love the United States as well.
    It has always been more superior when it comes to things like this.
    Europeans are much more likely to throw away their freedoms for a bit of temporary security.

    I have much more respect for US than I ever will France who has also collapsed into the "Fear the Burqa" frenzy.

    Oh yeh, because the good ol' US of A hasn't collapsed into the "Fear the Muslims" frenzy. Roll Eyes

    http://www.cnn.com/video/data/2.0/video/us/2010/07/15/dnt.tn.mosque.protests.wtvf.wtvf.html

    The US has always been distrustful of the "other", from Native to Black to Mexican to Muslim.

    The whole claim that Americans have a natural distrust for government is a mythical load of crap. The US is a neo-fascist state that works for the interests of the rich while giving the working and middle classes the idea that they should protect their "free market" economy. And of course the PATRIOT Act just seals the deal in showing how America fell in love with big government. Not to mention how socially conservative it is.
  • Re: Conservative MP Philip Hollobone's bid to ban the burka
     Reply #126 - October 05, 2011, 12:59 PM

    Oh yeh, because the good ol' US of A hasn't collapsed into the "Fear the Muslims" frenzy. Roll Eyes

    http://www.cnn.com/video/data/2.0/video/us/2010/07/15/dnt.tn.mosque.protests.wtvf.wtvf.html

    The US has always been distrustful of the "other", from Native to Black to Mexican to Muslim.

    The whole claim that Americans have a natural distrust for government is a mythical load of crap. The US is a neo-fascist state that works for the interests of the rich while giving the working and middle classes the idea that they should protect their "free market" economy. And of course the PATRIOT Act just seals the deal in showing how America fell in love with big government. Not to mention how socially conservative it is.

    when you say US is a neo-fascist state that works for the interests of the rich.. who are these RICH people of America Abood??
    The top 400 reiches people in AMerica are the following
    Quote
    name      Age     Residence     Source
    1    Bill Gates  $59 B    55    Medina, Washington    Microsoft
    2    Warren Buffett $39 B    81    Omaha, Nebraska    Berkshire Hathaway
    3    Larry Ellison  $33 B    67    Woodside, California    Oracle
    4    Charles Koch $25 B    75    Wichita, Kansas    diversified
    4    David Koch  $25 B    71    New York, New York    diversified
    6    Christy Walton  $24.5 B    56    Jackson, Wyoming    Wal-Mart
    7    George Soros  $22 B    81    Katonah, New York    hedge funds
    8    Sheldon Adelson  $21.5 B    78    Las Vegas, Nevada    casinos
    9    Jim Walton $21.1 B    63    Bentonville, Arkansas    Wal-Mart
    10    Alice Walton $20.9 B    61    Fort Worth, Texas    Wal-Mart
    11    S. Robson Walton $20.5 B    67    Bentonville, Arkansas    Wal-Mart
    12    Michael Bloomberg $19.5 B    69    New York, New York    Bloomberg LP
    13    Jeff Bezos $19.1 B    47    Seattle, Washington    Amazon.com
    14    Mark Zuckerberg  $17.5 B    27    Palo Alto, California    Facebook
    15    Sergey Brin  $16.7 B    38    Los Altos, California    Google
    15    Larry Page $16.7 B    38    Palo Alto, California    Google
    17    John Paulson $15.5 B    55    New York, New York    hedge funds
    18    Michael Dell  $15 B    46    Austin, Texas    Dell
    19    Steve Ballmer  $13.9 B    55    Hunts Point, Washington    Microsoft
    20    Forrest Mars  $13.8 B    80    Big Horn, Wyoming    candy
    20    Jacqueline Mars  $13.8 B    71    The Plains, Virginia    candy
    20    John Mars $13.8 B    75    Jackson, Wyoming    candy, pet food
    23    Paul Allen  $13.2 B    58    Mercer Island, Washington    Microsoft, investments
    24    Phil Knight  $13.1 B    73    Hillsboro, Oregon    Nike
    25    Carl Icahn  $13 B    75    New York, New York    leveraged buyouts
    26    Donald Bren $12 B    79    Newport Beach, California    real estate
    26    Anne Cox Chambers  $12 B    91    Atlanta, Georgia    media
    26    Ronald Perelman  $12 B    68    New York, New York    leveraged buyouts
    29    Abigail Johnson  $11.7 B    49    Milton, Massachusetts    Fidelity
    30    James Simons  $10.6 B    73    East Setauket, New York    hedge funds
    31    George Kaiser  $10 B    69    Tulsa, Oklahoma    oil & gas, banking
    32    Len Blavatnik  $9.5 B    54    London, N/A    diversified
    33    Harold Simmons $9.3 B    80    Dallas, Texas    investments
    34    Jack Taylor   $9 B    89    St. Louis, Missouri    Enterprise Rent-A-Car
    35    Steve Cohen  $8.3 B    55    Greenwich, Connecticut    hedge funds
    36    Harold Hamm  $7.5 B    65    Oklahoma City, Oklahoma    oil & natural gas
    37    Rupert Murdoch $7.4 B    80    New York, New York    News Corp
    38    James Goodnight $7.1 B    68    Cary, North Carolina    SAS Institute
    39    Philip Anschutz $7 B    71    Denver, Colorado    investments
    39    Andrew Beal  $7 B    58    Dallas, Texas    banks, real estate
    39    Steve Jobs  $7 B    56    Palo Alto, California    Apple, Pixar
    39    Patrick Soon-Shiong $7 B    59    Los Angeles, California    generic drugs
    43    Samuel Newhouse  $6.6 B    83    New York, New York    Conde Nast
    44    Ray Dalio  $6.5 B    62    Greenwich, Connecticut    hedge funds
    44    Edward Johnson  $6.5 B    81    Boston, Massachusetts    Fidelity
    46    Charles Ergen  $6.4 B    58    Denver, Colorado    EchoStar
    46    Richard Kinder  $6.4 B    66    Houston, Texas    pipelines
    48    Eli Broad  $6.3 B    78    Los Angeles, California    investments
    48    Leonard Lauder  $6.3 B    78    New York, New York    Estee Lauder
    50    Pierre Omidyar  $6.2 B    44    Honolulu, Hawaii    Ebay
    50    Eric Schmidt $6.2 B    56    Atherton, California    Google
    52    Ralph Lauren  $6.1 B    71    New York, New York    Ralph Lauren
    53    Jim Kennedy  $6 B    63    Atlanta, Georgia    media
    53    Blair Parry-Okeden  $6 B    60    Scone, N/A    media
    55    Donald Newhouse $5.9 B    81    Somerset County, New Jersey    Conde Nast
    55    Ira Rennert  $5.9 B    77    Sagaponack, New York    investments
    57    Charles Butt  $5.7 B    73    San Antonio, Texas    supermarkets
    58    David Geffen  $5.5 B    68    Malibu, California    movies, music
    59    Jeffrey Hildebrand  $5.3 B    52    Houston, Texas    Oil
    60    Richard DeVos  $5 B    85    Holland, Michigan    Amway
    60    Richard LeFrak  $5 B    66    New York, New York    real estate
    60    Frederik G.H. Meijer $5 B    91    Grand Rapids, Michigan    supermarkets
    60    Thomas Peterffy  $5 B    67    Greenwich, Connecticut    discount brokerage
    60    David Tepper  $5 B    54    Livingston, New Jersey    hedge funds
    60    Dennis Washington $5 B    77    Missoula, Montana    construction, mining
    66    Robert Rowling  $4.7 B    57    Dallas, Texas    investments
    66    Stephen Schwarzman  $4.7 B    64    New York, New York    investments
    66    Sam Zell  $4.7 B    69    Chicago, Illinois    real estate, private equity
    69    Rupert Johnson $4.5 B    70    Burlingame, California    Franklin Resources
    69    John Malone $4.5 B    70    Elizabeth, Colorado    cable television
    69    John Menard $4.5 B    71    Eau Claire, Wisconsin    Retail
    72    Charles Johnson $4.4 B    78    Hillsborough, California    financial services
    73    Ray Lee Hunt $4.3 B    68    Dallas, Texas    oil, real estate
    73    Bruce Kovner $4.3 B    66    New York, New York    hedge funds
    75    Micky Arison $4.2 B    62    Bal Harbour, Florida    Carnival Cruises
    75    Leonard Stern  $4.2 B    73    New York, New York    real estate
    75    Daniel Ziff  $4.2 B    39    New York, New York    investments
    75    Dirk Ziff  $4.2 B    47    North Palm Beach, Florida    investments
    75    Robert Ziff $4.2 B    45    New York, New York    investments
    80    Sumner Redstone  $4.1 B    88    Beverly Hills, California    Viacom
    81    John Paul DeJoria $4 B    67    Austin, Texas    hair products, tequila
    81    David Green $4 B    69    Oklahoma City, Oklahoma    Hobby Lobby
    81    William Koch $4 B    71    Palm Beach, Florida    oil, investments
    81    Roger Wang $4 B    62    Nanjing, Jiangsu    retail
    85    Leslie Wexner $3.8 B    74    New Albany, Ohio    retail
    86    Henry Kravis $3.7 B    67    New York, New York    leveraged buyouts
    86    Gordon Moore  $3.7 B    82    Woodside, California    Intel
    88    Robert Bass  $3.6 B    63    Fort Worth, Texas    oil, investments
    88    Jin Sook & Do Won Chang $3.6 B    56    Beverly Hills, California    retail
    88    Trevor Rees-Jones  $3.6 B    60    Dallas, Texas    Oil & Gas
    91    John Arnold  $3.5 B    37    Houston, Texas    hedge funds
    91    Dustin Moskovitz  $3.5 B    27    San Francisco, California    Facebook
    91    Henry Ross Perot  $3.5 B    81    Dallas, Texas    computer services, real estate
    91    John Sall  $3.5 B    63    Cary, North Carolina    SAS Institute
    91    Charles Schwab  $3.5 B    74    Atherton, California    discount brokerage
    96    Dannine Avara  $3.4 B    47    Houston, Texas    pipelines
    96    Gayle Cook $3.4 B    77    Bloomington, Indiana    medical devices
    96    Scott Duncan  $3.4 B    28    Houston, Texas    Pipelines
    96    Milane Frantz  $3.4 B    42    Houston, Texas    Pipelines
    96    Bruce Halle  $3.4 B    81    Paradise Valley, Arizona    Discount Tire
        Name   Net Worth   Age   Residence   Source
    96    George Roberts  $3.4 B    68    Atherton, California    leveraged buyouts
    96    Randa Williams  $3.4 B    50    Houston, Texas    Pipelines
    103    Ann Walton Kroenke  $3.3 B    62    Columbia, Missouri    Wal-Mart
    103    Ronald Lauder  $3.3 B    67    New York, New York    Estee Lauder
    103    Ted Lerner  $3.3 B    85    Chevy Chase, Maryland    real estate
    103    Patrick McGovern  $3.3 B    74    Hollis, New Hampshire    media
    107    Leon Black  $3.2 B    60    New York, New York    private equity
    107    Ron Burkle  $3.2 B    58    London, N/A    supermarkets, investments
    107    Paul Tudor Jones  $3.2 B    56    Greenwich, Connecticut    hedge funds
    107    Stanley Kroenke  $3.2 B    64    Columbia, Missouri    sports, real estate
    107    George Lucas  $3.2 B    67    San Anselmo, California    Star Wars
    107    John A. Sobrato  $3.2 B    72    Atherton, California    real estate
    107    Steven Udvar-Hazy $3.2 B    65    Beverly Hills, California    aircraft leasing
    114    Barbara Piasecka Johnson $3.1 B    74    Monte Carlo, N/A    Johnson & Johnson
    114    Terrence Pegula  $3.1 B    60    Boca Raton, Florida    natural gas
    114    Stephen Ross  $3.1 B    71    New York, New York    real estate
    117    Riley Bechtel  $3 B    59    San Francisco, California    engineering, construction
    117    Stephen Bechtel  $3 B    86    San Francisco, California    engineering, construction
    117    Barbara Carlson Gage  $3 B    69    Long Lake, Minnesota    hotels, restaurants
    117    Martha Ingram  $3 B    76    Nashville, Tennessee    book distribution, transportation
    117    James Jannard  $3 B    62    San Juan Islands, Washington    sunglasses
    117    Kirk Kerkorian $3 B    94    Beverly Hills, California    casinos, investments
    117    Edward Lampert  $3 B    48    Greenwich, Connecticut    investments
    117    Marilyn Carlson Nelson  $3 B    72    Long Lake, Minnesota    hotels, restaurants
    117    Mitchell Rales $3 B    55    Potomac, Maryland    manufacturing
    117    Lynn Schusterman $3 B    72    Tulsa, Oklahoma    oil & gas, investments
    117    Steven Spielberg $3 B    64    Pacific Palisades, California    movies
    128    Haim Saban $2.9 B    66    Beverly Hills, California    television
    128    Donald Trump $2.9 B    65    New York, New York    television, real estate
    129    Robert Friedland  $2.8 B    61    Singapore, N/A    mining
    130    Thomas Frist  $2.8 B    73    Nashville, Tennessee    health care
    131    Victor Fung  $2.8 B    65    Hong Kong, N/A    Retail
    132    Rodney Lewis$2.8 B    57    San Antonio, Texas    natural gas
    133    Warren Stephens$2.8 B    54    Little Rock, Arkansas    investment banking
    134    David Sun$2.8 B    59    Irvine, California    information technology
    135    Joan Tisch$2.8 B    85    New York, New York    diversified
    136    John Tu$2.8 B    70    Rolling Hills, California    information technology
    137    Steve Wynn $2.8 B    69    Las Vegas, Nevada    casinos, hotels
    138    William Conway$2.7 B    62    McLean, Virginia    leveraged buyouts
    139    Daniel D'Aniello$2.7 B    65    Vienna, Virginia    leveraged buyouts
    139    Malcolm Glazer$2.7 B    83    Palm Beach, Florida    sports teams, real estate
    139    Timothy Headington$2.7 B    61    Dallas, Texas    oil & gas, investments
    139    Nancy Walton Laurie$2.7 B    60    Henderson, Nevada    Wal-Mart
    139    James Leprino$2.7 B    73    Indian Hills, Colorado    cheese
    139    David Murdock$2.7 B    88    Los Angeles, California    Dole, real estate
    139    Steven Rales$2.7 B    60    Washington, District of Columbia    manufacturing
    139    David Rubenstein$2.7 B    62    Bethesda, Maryland    leveraged buyouts
    139    Jeffrey Skoll$2.7 B    46    Los Altos, California    Ebay
    139    Oprah Winfrey$2.7 B    57    Chicago, Illinois    Television
    150    Charles Dolan$2.6 B    84    Oyster Bay, New York    cable television
    150    Archie Aldis Emmerson$2.6 B    82    Redding, California    timberland, lumber mills
    150    Robert Holding$2.6 B    84    Sun Valley, Idaho    oil, resorts
    150    Pauline MacMillan Keinath$2.6 B    77    St. Louis, Missouri    Cargill Inc.
    150    Cargill MacMillan$2.6 B    84    Indian Wells, California    Cargill Inc.
    150    Whitney MacMillan$2.6 B    82    Minneapolis, Minnesota    Cargill Inc.
    150    Daniel Och$2.6 B    50    New York, New York    hedge funds
    150    Igor Olenicoff$2.6 B    69    Lighthouse Point, Florida    real estate
    150    Marion MacMillan Pictet$2.6 B    -    Hamilton, N/A    Cargill Inc.
    159    Stanley Druckenmiller$2.5 B    58    New York, New York    hedge funds
    159    Tom Gores$2.5 B    47    Beverly Hills, California    private equity
    159    Anthony Pritzker$2.5 B    50    Los Angeles, California    hotels, investments
    159    Jay Robert (J.B.) Pritzker$2.5 B    46    Chicago, Illinois    hotels, investments
    159    David Rockefeller$2.5 B    96    Sleepy Hollow, New York    Standard Oil, banking
    159    Donald Schneider$2.5 B    75    Green Bay, Wisconsin    trucking
    159    Alfred Taubman$2.5 B    87    Bloomfield Hills, Michigan    real estate
    166    Ray Dolby$2.4 B    78    San Francisco, California    Dolby Laboratories
    166    Randal Kirk$2.4 B    57    Belspring, Virginia    pharmaceuticals
    166    Julian Robertson$2.4 B    79    New York, New York    hedge funds
    166    Phillip Ruffin$2.4 B    76    Las Vegas, Nevada    casinos, real estate
    166    Ty Warner$2.4 B    67    Oak Brook, Illinois    Beanie Babies
    171    Nicolas Berggruen$2.3 B    50    Beverly Hills, California    investments
    171    Christopher Cline$2.3 B    53    North Palm Beach, Florida    coal
    171    Mark Cuban$2.3 B    53    Dallas, Texas    online media
    171    John Doerr$2.3 B    60    Woodside, California    venture capital
    171    Ken Griffin$2.3 B    42    Chicago, Illinois    hedge funds
    171    Tamara Gustavson$2.3 B    49    Malibu, California    self storage
    171    Amos Hostetter$2.3 B    74    Boston, Massachusetts    cable television
    171    H. Wayne Huizenga$2.3 B    73    Fort Lauderdale, Florida    investments
    171    H. Fisk Johnson$2.3 B    53    Racine, Wisconsin    SC Johnson & Sons
    171    Imogene Powers Johnson$2.3 B    81    Racine, Wisconsin    SC Johnson & Sons
    171    S. Curtis Johnson$2.3 B    56    Racine, Wisconsin    SC Johnson & Sons
    171    Helen Johnson-Leipold$2.3 B    54    Racine, Wisconsin    SC Johnson
    171    Winnie Johnson-Marquart$2.3 B    52    Virginia Beach, Virginia    SC Johnson & Sons
    171    Peter Kellogg$2.3 B    69    Short Hills, New Jersey    investments
    171    A. Jerrold Perenchio$2.3 B    80    Bel Air, California    television
    171    Richard Rainwater$2.3 B    67    Fort Worth, Texas    real estate, energy, insurance
    171    Ronda Stryker$2.3 B    57    Portage, Michigan    medical technology
    188    Peter Buck$2.2 B    80    Danbury, Connecticut    Subway Restaurants
    188    Jack Dangermond$2.2 B    66    Redlands, California    mapping software
    188    Fred DeLuca$2.2 B    63    Fort Lauderdale, Florida    Subway Restaurants
    188    Philip Falcone$2.2 B    49    New York, New York    hedge funds
    188    Bill Gross$2.2 B    67    Laguna Beach, California    investments
    188    William Randolph Hearst$2.2 B    62    San Francisco, California    Hearst Corp
    188    Diane Hendricks$2.2 B    64    Afton, Wisconsin    roofing
    188    Henry Hillman$2.2 B    92    Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania    investments
    188    Mary Alice Dorrance Malone$2.2 B    61    Coatesville, Pennsylvania    Campbell Soup
    188    George Mitchell$2.2 B    92    The Woodlands, Texas    oil & gas
    188    William Wrigley$2.2 B    47    Lake Forest, Illinois    chewing gum
    188    Mortimer Zuckerman$2.2 B    74    New York, New York    real estate, media
    200    Lee Bass$2.1 B    55    Fort Worth, Texas    oil, investments

     that is the list of top 200 rich guys of America you can see top 500 list here ..

    Now tell me how many of them are crooks who made America as  neo-fascist state and compare them rich and famous say fro e.g from Algeria to Indonesia and see how they compare with richness and crookedness of Americans..  and what is there richness has to do with this Islamci thing you are putting out??
    Quote
    Oh yeh, because the good ol' US of A hasn't collapsed into the "Fear the Muslims" frenzy. Roll Eyes

    http://www.cnn.com/video/data/2.0/video/us/2010/07/15/dnt.tn.mosque.protests.wtvf.wtvf.html

    The US has always been distrustful of the "other", from Native to Black to Mexican to Muslim.


    I agree there are crooks in that list.. but most of them are COMPUTER GEEKS and became rich after 80s..  lol..

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: Conservative MP Philip Hollobone's bid to ban the burka
     Reply #127 - October 05, 2011, 01:13 PM

    Anyways, i pulled this old  thread for Burkha sake and I have to answer abood as he is a wonderful cemb guy. so today's blog in dawn talk about "Beneath the burqa" let me out some excerpts from that article of this burkaless smart lady


    -Anum-Pasha


    Quote
    The burqa, a garment which needs no introduction has been a bone to chew on for many. After the infamous burqa ban, France shunned the idea of Muslims praying on her streets in April. France is home to Europe’s largest Muslim population, but the idea is obviously to bring back ‘French-ness’ to its cities. On Thursday, France first fined two veiled women ‘guilty’ of covering up. Netherlands is also now set to follow suit in proposing a ban on the burqa.

    Quote
    In Bollywood, all hell broke loose recently when a scriptwriter incorporated the burqa for a female character to wear by choice. Consequently, the studio executive responded, “You have to understand – you can’t just show people wearing a burqa in Bollywood movies by choice. Either you have to be a conservative woman who wants to blow up all of United States and who doesn’t let her children go to school or you have to use it in a situation where the lead actor gets stuck in a jam and needs to escape without being seen by anyone.” To this, scriptwriter Indra Kumar said, “Look I believe in realism in scripts. Now this woman thought the burqa was a tool of empowerment so I wrote it. There are many such women in the world.”

    Quote
    Pakistani comedian Saad Haroon’s attempt at making Pakistanis laugh is Burqa Woman, a parody of Roy Orbison’s Pretty Woman, already reaching nearly 200,000 hits on Youtube as he sings, “Burqa woman, I love you still…come on and give me a thrill…show me your left nostril.” The video features a young man wooing a burqa-clad woman, coaxing her with words, “my desi penguin” and continuing that he will “go home and practice with his living room curtain.” It appears as if the comedian put some deep thought into the idea. Consider: The Persian word ‘Purdah’ as we know it well means ‘curtain’.

    When I first saw the video, I couldn’t help being in awe of Haroon’s bold sense of creative genius and attempt at loosening the noose around the globally-debated burqa, but what about the hundreds and thousands of Muslim women who have taken serious offense to the comedian’s laughing gas? Statistics show that the burgeoning popularity of the burqa has increased from 10 to 30 per cent in the Indian state Kerala and the burqa has become a fashion statement in Bhopal.

    Britain’s Immigration Minister Damian Green has stated that the British government should not seek to ban the burqa for a “tolerant and mutually respectful society,” a Spanish court has recently suspended the burqa ban and finally, Amsterdam’s Chief of Police Bernard Welson announced that if the burqa ban would be enforced, he would practice civil disobedience.

    Quote
    According to a new research conducted by the Pew Research Center, Pakistan will overtake Indonesia as the world’s most populous Muslim state and the number of Muslims in the United States will double from 2.6 million in 2010 to 6.2 million by 2030.  THAT IS WRONG NUMBER..yeezevee


    Quote
    With Burqa Woman, Saad Haroon has chosen to tread on thin ice especially considering that recent developments including the fight against blasphemy laws have cost us Pakistanis a heavy price. Critics will argue that freedom of speech is essential for any democracy, but I say that shared responsibility must be ensued with this freedom. As media gurus, comedians, writers, producers and directors, are we fully aware of our rights to offend – or the limits of free speech?

    Based on similar notions, Ajoka Theatre’s humorous play Burqavaganza topped the charts, and writer Shahid Nadeem happened to say that Pakistanis dwell too much on the burqa, wasting a large proportion of their time on this. I am not sorry to burst anyone’s bubble here, but I felt that the play was forced humour with no real food for thought.

    As Pakistani audiences – are we tolerant enough and geared to absorb satirical humor and learn to take it in stride? My belief remains affirmed when I say that as progressive Pakistanis if we have the ability to enjoy satirical mockery of the burqa, we must also be prepared to exercise similar endurance towards thousands of women who choose to still wear the burqa across the globe.


    We must also understand that while categorical humor is the most important vehicle to positively address tolerance, there is no way we can turn a blind eye to how these works can leave many burqa-clad women with a low blow.




    Well I have to agree with many point of  her if not all...

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: Conservative MP Philip Hollobone's bid to ban the burka
     Reply #128 - October 06, 2011, 12:14 PM

    I used to think it was wrong to tell people how to dress, but I've changed my mind and it should be banned.

    It's a tool of segregation and facilitates non integration, it's a statement by Ismalists that they are not prepared to join the general way of western dress.

    It's not only oppressive to women, it is also intimidating to non muslims.

    To me it is like the uniform of an invading army that wants to colonise our culture and destroy western freedoms.

    It also takes away any human interaction by dint of the intimidation because people feel that it's a message, don't talk to me, don't look at me, I want nothing to do with you.

    Lastly, I simply do not like it, it's un English.

    Arthur.
  • Re: Conservative MP Philip Hollobone's bid to ban the burka
     Reply #129 - October 06, 2011, 12:24 PM

    I'd prefer it not to exist, but telling people what they cannot wear also seems to be somewhat "un English."

    I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
  • Re: Conservative MP Philip Hollobone's bid to ban the burka
     Reply #130 - October 06, 2011, 12:32 PM

    Yes I agree, it is, but it's a rock and a hard place. It's another loss of liberty for the common good, like airport security etc.

    Arthur.
  • Re: Conservative MP Philip Hollobone's bid to ban the burka
     Reply #131 - October 06, 2011, 12:37 PM

    Airport security has a clear benefit. I don't see a clear benefit in banning face veils.  The women who wear them through intimidation from an over controlling partner will probably be confined to their houses and lose what little freedom they had.

    I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
  • Re: Conservative MP Philip Hollobone's bid to ban the burka
     Reply #132 - October 06, 2011, 01:32 PM

    I wonder how true that is, after all keeping their women house bound would mean that they would have to go out and do all the stuff like shopping.

    How long would it be before these women rebelled?

    Arthur.
  • Re: Conservative MP Philip Hollobone's bid to ban the burka
     Reply #133 - October 06, 2011, 01:39 PM

    To be clear, we are talking about the oppressed women who are forced to wear them.  Some might rebel, but many I suspect would continue to live with the situation due to low self esteem.  We'd just be robbing this sub-group of what little freedom they have.

    What we need is to make sure these people know that under UK law they do not have to wear these things, and ensure that we have support for those abused women who want to leave their husbands and to take their children with them.

    Anyone who chooses to wear them can, anyone who doesn't like them can look away.  I personally hate white sports socks with little coloured bands, especially with black slip-on shoes.  I also hate sock with sandals.

    I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
  • Re: Conservative MP Philip Hollobone's bid to ban the burka
     Reply #134 - October 06, 2011, 06:17 PM

    I have some sympathy with what you say but at the same time these oppressed women will never gain their freedom if our country becomes more and more Islamified and banning the veil would send out a clear message that this is not the way of life here.

    Wearing sock with sandals is a fashion disaster, the wearing of the veil is a political statement of non integration and far worse, segregation.

    Arthur.
  • Re: Conservative MP Philip Hollobone's bid to ban the burka
     Reply #135 - October 06, 2011, 06:25 PM

    I have some sympathy with what you say but at the same time these oppressed women will never gain their freedom if our country becomes more and more Islamified and banning the veil would send out a clear message that this is not the way of life here.

    Wearing sock with sandals is a fashion disaster, the wearing of the veil is a political statement of non integration and far worse, segregation.

    Arthur.

    Nope I agree to disagree with you..  Off course face MUST NEVER BE COVERED.. in modern times it is indeed a public safety problem.,




    But I prefer Muslim women who would like to show off their Islam should go back and wear the above  Arabian dresses

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: Conservative MP Philip Hollobone's bid to ban the burka
     Reply #136 - October 06, 2011, 06:35 PM

    It also opens up the door to islamic privelige. Everyone else has to remove face coverings when entering banks etc so why should someone be excused from this based purely on their belief in fairy tales? Having a covered face increases the chance of fraud and it has been used as a cover for avoiding identification during robberies.

    I personally think that we need a law about the burqa/niqab, but only that the face has to be shown in certain buildings where face coverings are banned or on demand from a police officer.

    I've been driven mad trying to prove my sanity
  • Re: Conservative MP Philip Hollobone's bid to ban the burka
     Reply #137 - October 06, 2011, 06:41 PM

    Would this be the equivalent for the rights for someone to wear a Nazi uniform, or a KKK uniform if that is even acceptable? I mean if an article of clothing or symbol has strong ties to an ideology  that is frowned upon by a country shouldn't it been banned or discouraged.

    ***~Church is where bad people go to hide~***
  • Re: Conservative MP Philip Hollobone's bid to ban the burka
     Reply #138 - October 07, 2011, 05:02 AM

    Quote from: Sakura02
    Would this be the equivalent for the rights for someone to wear a Nazi uniform, or a KKK uniform if that is even acceptable?  I mean if an article of clothing or symbol has strong ties to an ideology  that is frowned upon by a country shouldn't it been banned or discouraged.


    If you want to be one of the "popular kids" in this school Sakura02 you should steer clear of asking questions like this. You are right of course: where countries have restrictions on certain types of dress because certain groups might find them offensive and/or threatening - eg the display of Nazi symbols in Germany - then consistency demands that Islamic attire should likewise be subject to such restrictions. This is particularly so where freedom of expression may be curtailed as a result of Muslim demands.

    I would go further and say that the situation of NON-Muslims in Muslim majority situations has a bearing on the level of "religious freedom" - including mosque building - Muslims should be permitted in the west.

    The mosque: the most epic display of collective douchbaggery, arrogance and delusion
  • Re: Conservative MP Philip Hollobone's bid to ban the burka
     Reply #139 - October 07, 2011, 05:37 AM

    Germans should be able to wear Nazi uniforms in Germany.  

    So once again I'm left with the classic Irish man's dilemma, do I eat the potato or do I let it ferment so I can drink it later?
    My political philosophy below
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwGat4i8pJI&feature=g-vrec
    Just kidding, here are some true heros
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBTgvK6LQqA
  • Re: Conservative MP Philip Hollobone's bid to ban the burka
     Reply #140 - October 07, 2011, 09:11 AM

    They're not though. And while they're not it provides a very useful precedent. In fact, if I were a german I wouldn't be in any great hurry to do away with anti-Nazi legislation.

    The mosque: the most epic display of collective douchbaggery, arrogance and delusion
  • Re: Conservative MP Philip Hollobone's bid to ban the burka
     Reply #141 - October 07, 2011, 09:18 AM

    The "racist" Swiss minaret ban can of course be supported on grounds that these triumphalist symbols of Islamic domination over the kuffar are in fact an Islamically non-essential innovation and therefore involves no breach of religious freedom principles.

    The mosque: the most epic display of collective douchbaggery, arrogance and delusion
  • Re: Conservative MP Philip Hollobone's bid to ban the burka
     Reply #142 - October 07, 2011, 11:26 AM

    The "racist" Swiss minaret ban can of course be supported on grounds that these triumphalist symbols of Islamic domination over the kuffar are in fact an Islamically non-essential innovation and therefore involves no breach of religious freedom principles.


    Actually I have no problem with minaret bans.  In the UK planning laws are quite strict, and dictate that new buildings must conform to the "character" of the existing buildings.  Under this non-discriminatory law minarets in the UK should be illegal, just as Onion topped Sikh temples should also.  However, neither seem to be prohibited and thus you can drive down the road and see ugly monstrosities sticking out like sore thumbs.

    There is nothing in Islam that says they have to have these minarets.  I don't think they even used to use them during Muhammad's life did they?

    I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
  • Re: Conservative MP Philip Hollobone's bid to ban the burka
     Reply #143 - October 07, 2011, 12:24 PM

    Would this be the equivalent for the rights for someone to wear a Nazi uniform, or a KKK uniform if that is even acceptable? I mean if an article of clothing or symbol has strong ties to an ideology  that is frowned upon by a country shouldn't it been banned or discouraged.


     Roll Eyes

    Since when did niqabis/burka wearing muslimahs attempt to conquer Europe through war and mass murder? Or organise lynch mobs? Moron.

    There is nothing in Islam that says they have to have these minarets.  I don't think they even used to use them during Muhammad's life did they?


    During his day they used to say the call to prayer on the roof, minarets came were built later.
  • Re: Conservative MP Philip Hollobone's bid to ban the burka
     Reply #144 - October 07, 2011, 02:49 PM

    Quote from: Aphrodite
    Since when did niqabis/burka wearing muslimahs attempt to conquer Europe through war and mass murder? Or organise lynch mobs? Moron.


    Muslims - impelled by the ideology of ISLAM - have a long history of all these things. Sakura's utterly valid point is that female Islamic dress of whatever form  signifies subscription to this nasty ideology on the part of the uncompelled wearer as much as KKK robes signify subscription to the ideology of the KKK or the swastika to the ideology of Nazism.  Your resort to personal abuse indicates that deep down you recognize this.

    The mosque: the most epic display of collective douchbaggery, arrogance and delusion
  • Re: Conservative MP Philip Hollobone's bid to ban the burka
     Reply #145 - October 07, 2011, 03:07 PM

    So Muslim women can't dress how they want in Britain because of the actions of their ancestors? Right  Roll Eyes I resort to "personal abuse" because I don't like people I personally know being compared to Nazis and KKKs.
  • Re: Conservative MP Philip Hollobone's bid to ban the burka
     Reply #146 - October 07, 2011, 03:11 PM

    Yes I agree, it is, but it's a rock and a hard place. It's another loss of liberty for the common good, like airport security etc.

    Arthur.


    ANOTHER indeed. Tell me arthur, what liberty has not been lost in your county or mine without "the common good" or "security" being the justification for it? Where does it end?

    Wearing sock with sandals is a fashion disaster, the wearing of the veil is a political statement of non integration and far worse, segregation.

    Arthur.


    The fact that it's a political statement should be MORE reason not to ban it. Right-wingers like you only support free expression when it's ideas you support, which means you don't really support free expression at all. Anyone can commit to fighting for the right to express their own opinions-- liberty is about protecting the rights of anyone to express their own opinion, no matter how objectionable, free of government censorship/coercion.

    Would this be the equivalent for the rights for someone to wear a Nazi uniform, or a KKK uniform if that is even acceptable? I mean if an article of clothing or symbol has strong ties to an ideology  that is frowned upon by a country shouldn't it been banned or discouraged.


    Those clothing choices should not be banned by the state either. This is real simple, Sakura (and everyone else)-- either you support the right of free expression for ideas you find abhorrent or you don't support the right of free expression at all. Wouldn't expect the Euros here to get it Sakura, but as a fellow American, who lives in a country where wearing Klan robes and Nazi uniforms are protected under the US Constitution, I would have expected more-- but maybe I shouldn't have, too many Americans are woefully ignorant of the meaning of the very principles we're constantly told the US is all about.

    The "racist" Swiss minaret ban can of course be supported on grounds that these triumphalist symbols of Islamic domination over the kuffar are in fact an Islamically non-essential innovation and therefore involves no breach of religious freedom principles.


    No it cannot. Of course I don't actually believe you are so dense as to really think that a religious minority must be able to back up their religious buildings with "holy" texts in order to not have their particular buildings discriminated against, but rather you are simply fabricating an intellectually-weak excuse for such discrimination (nearly as weak as those who claim Islam is a "cult" not really a "religion" therefore it's permissible to discriminate against Muslims) that only the stone-cold dumbest people here will buy.

    Muslims - impelled by the ideology of ISLAM - have a long history of all these things. Sakura's utterly valid point is that female Islamic dress of whatever form  signifies subscription to this nasty ideology on the part of the uncompelled wearer as much as KKK robes signify subscription to the ideology of the KKK or the swastika to the ideology of Nazism.  Your resort to personal abuse indicates that deep down you recognize this.


    One of this forum's founders used to wear the niqab-- are you suggesting that at the time she was wearing it she was making a morally-equivalent choice to a Klansman wearing white robes or a Nazi wearing a swastika armband?

    fuck you
  • Re: Conservative MP Philip Hollobone's bid to ban the burka
     Reply #147 - October 07, 2011, 03:18 PM

    If you believe in freedom of speech, you believe in freedom of speech for views you don't like. Goebbels was in favor of freedom of speech for views he liked. So was Stalin. If you're in favor of freedom of speech, that means you're in favor of freedom of speech precisely for views you despise.

    -- Noam Chomsky

     Afro
  • Re: Conservative MP Philip Hollobone's bid to ban the burka
     Reply #148 - October 07, 2011, 03:23 PM

    Oh yeh, because the good ol' US of A hasn't collapsed into the "Fear the Muslims" frenzy. Roll Eyes

    http://www.cnn.com/video/data/2.0/video/us/2010/07/15/dnt.tn.mosque.protests.wtvf.wtvf.html

    The US has always been distrustful of the "other", from Native to Black to Mexican to Muslim.

    The whole claim that Americans have a natural distrust for government is a mythical load of crap. The US is a neo-fascist state that works for the interests of the rich while giving the working and middle classes the idea that they should protect their "free market" economy. And of course the PATRIOT Act just seals the deal in showing how America fell in love with big government. Not to mention how socially conservative it is.


    That doesn't show that Americans don't have a natural distrust of government, Abood, as we surely do-- it merely shows that for most Americans fear (to varying levels of rationality) usually trumps that distrust. People in general and Americans in particular are fundamentally dominated by fear-- you can find it in almost every bad policy choice-- from rejecting healthcare reform to drug laws to meaningless anti-shariah bills to institutional racism to the PATRIOT Act.

    fuck you
  • Re: Conservative MP Philip Hollobone's bid to ban the burka
     Reply #149 - October 07, 2011, 03:30 PM

    Yeh, I think you're right. Americans fear big government when it comes to economic issues, with all the rhetoric of "The American Dream", but they don't when it comes to security. It's just really obnoxious when far-right pundits talk about the left being "pro-government", as if they're not.
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