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Theme Changer

 Topic: was reading the wiki

 (Read 8548 times)
  • 12 3 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »
  • was reading the wiki
     OP - September 30, 2010, 06:57 PM
    So how is islam racist?
    and how does it promote honour killing?
     wacko 

    i agree with the rest of the points i have to say



    i think these are false allegations, no? why?
    Confucius:
    "What you do not like done to yourself, do not unto others."
  • Re: was reading the wiki
     Reply #1 - September 30, 2010, 06:59 PM
    Which article.
    Quote from: thinkfree on September 28, 2010, 07:58 PM
    Iblis has mad debaterin' skillz. Best not step up unless you're prepared to recieve da pain.

  • Re: was reading the wiki
     Reply #2 - September 30, 2010, 07:01 PM
    This one, I think.

    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/wiki/en/The_Koran_Condemns
    19:46   <zizo>: hugs could pimp u into sex

    Quote from: yeezevee
    well I am neither ex-Muslim nor absolute 100% Non-Muslim.. I am fucking Zebra

  • Re: was reading the wiki
     Reply #3 - September 30, 2010, 07:15 PM
    ^ yup
    Confucius:
    "What you do not like done to yourself, do not unto others."
  • Re: was reading the wiki
     Reply #4 - September 30, 2010, 07:18 PM
    What is the false allegation?
    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Re: was reading the wiki
     Reply #5 - September 30, 2010, 07:19 PM
    racism and honour killings, no? why?
    Confucius:
    "What you do not like done to yourself, do not unto others."
  • Re: was reading the wiki
     Reply #6 - September 30, 2010, 07:20 PM
    Islam isn't actually racist as such, it's just prejudiced against the Jews.

    And killing one's children is condemned in the Qur'an and ahadith, so I don't think Islam really promotes honour killing. Although granted, it's not a simple issue.
  • Re: was reading the wiki
     Reply #7 - September 30, 2010, 07:23 PM
    Quote from: tabun on September 30, 2010, 07:19 PM
    racism and honour killings, no? why?


    Does the article say the Quran or Islam promotes these two things?

    All I'm reading is a list of what the Quran does and does not actually condemn.
    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Re: was reading the wiki
     Reply #8 - September 30, 2010, 07:23 PM
    Islam is really not racist. It has elements of arab supremacism, but at its core its mostly an egalitarian ideology - among Muslims that is.

    I think while Islam does not necessarily directly legitimize honor killings, it does set the conditions and the stage for it. After all, if you treat women as property then its not too far off before you kill them for not obeying your rules.


    Oh and the article merely states the Quran *DOES NOT* condem racism and honor killings. It never states that the Quran promotes or legitimizes them.
    Quote from: thinkfree on September 28, 2010, 07:58 PM
    Iblis has mad debaterin' skillz. Best not step up unless you're prepared to recieve da pain.

  • Re: was reading the wiki
     Reply #9 - September 30, 2010, 07:24 PM
    x
  • Re: was reading the wiki
     Reply #10 - September 30, 2010, 07:27 PM
    Quote from: tabun on September 30, 2010, 06:57 PM
    So how is islam racist?
    and how does it promote honour killing?
     wacko 

    i agree with the rest of the points i have to say



    i think these are false allegations, no? why?

    You missed the title - "What the Koran does not condemn (or disapprove of)

    Not condemning is not equal to promoting.  All it means is that it doesnt say anything about it being wrong.  

    The point being made here, of course, is that Islam often covers the minutest detail of your life, from the clothes you wear, to the food you eat, right through to how to wipe your arse.  Yet it does not say anything against bridal age or slavery (& beating slaves) in 30 books, yet it finds time to repeat some random Pharoahs story ad nauseum.

    If you know enough of the Quran, then another way of debating whether its Gods word is not by what it says, but by what it doesnt say.
    My Book     news002       
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  • Re: was reading the wiki
     Reply #11 - September 30, 2010, 07:32 PM
    Quote from: Mount A Bison on September 30, 2010, 07:24 PM
    The Offending verse: "On the Day (some) faces will turn white and (some) faces will turn black. As for those whose faces turn black (to them it will be said), ‘Did you reject faith after your belief? Then taste the punishment for what you used to reject.’" (Quran 3:106)


    I think it's pretty tenuous to derive some kind of racist sentiment on the part of the Qur'an's author from that verse. Black is pretty much ubiquitously associated with darkness, evil, impurity, sin, etc., so it's not surprising that it's associated with the 'wicked' unbelievers in that verse. Besides, Bilal, one of Muhammad's closest companions, was black. And the following verse is of interest:

    Q. 49:13:

    O mankind, indeed We have created you from male and female and made you peoples and tribes that you may know one another. Indeed, the most noble of you in the sight of Allah is the most righteous of you. Indeed, Allah is Knowing and Acquainted.
  • Re: was reading the wiki
     Reply #12 - September 30, 2010, 07:33 PM
    Quote from: Iblis on September 30, 2010, 07:23 PM
    I think while Islam does not necessarily directly legitimize honor killings, it does set the conditions and the stage for it. After all, if you treat women as property then its not too far off before you kill them for not obeying your rules.


    Yeah this.

    Islam nurtures the atmosphere of fear, distrust, obedience, and the demonising of dissent, of which 'honour' killings are a symptom.
    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Re: was reading the wiki
     Reply #13 - September 30, 2010, 07:34 PM
    got the racist part
    but
    well as zebedee said it does condemn killing of ur children .. so honour killing would be a false allegation , i guess  wacko
    Confucius:
    "What you do not like done to yourself, do not unto others."
  • Re: was reading the wiki
     Reply #14 - September 30, 2010, 07:35 PM
    Read Islames post. Your still missing the point of the article. Its not about if the Quran promotes X or Y, its merely pointing out that Quran does not condem X or Y.
    Quote from: thinkfree on September 28, 2010, 07:58 PM
    Iblis has mad debaterin' skillz. Best not step up unless you're prepared to recieve da pain.

  • Re: was reading the wiki
     Reply #15 - September 30, 2010, 07:37 PM
    i am not defending islam to be clear .... but to condemn something is to prohibit it so if u do honour killing u have directly disobeyed the islamic law ... wether there is an atmosphere or not.

    so it accually did condemn honour killings, by condemning the killing of one's children
    Confucius:
    "What you do not like done to yourself, do not unto others."
  • Re: was reading the wiki
     Reply #16 - September 30, 2010, 07:39 PM
    Quote from: tabun on September 30, 2010, 07:34 PM
    well as zebedee said it does condemn killing of ur children .. so honour killing would be a false allegation , i guess  wacko


    Yes, but as I explained, it's also not a simply issue. Iblis explained it well in saying that while Islam does not explicitly condone or promote honour killing, it can create the right atmosphere for it.
  • Re: was reading the wiki
     Reply #17 - September 30, 2010, 07:40 PM
    Quote from: tabun on September 30, 2010, 07:37 PM
    i am not defending islam to be clear .... but to condemn something is to prohibit it so if u do honour killing u have directly disobeyed the islamic law ... wether there is an atmosphere or not


    It depends on what the child is guilty of Wink
    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Re: was reading the wiki
     Reply #18 - September 30, 2010, 07:41 PM
    @ Ishina
    sorry about modifing my posts after u qouted it Smiley
    Confucius:
    "What you do not like done to yourself, do not unto others."
  • Re: was reading the wiki
     Reply #19 - September 30, 2010, 07:46 PM
    t
  • Re: was reading the wiki
     Reply #20 - September 30, 2010, 07:49 PM
    accually bilal will be white first before heaven ... if i understand correctly
    Confucius:
    "What you do not like done to yourself, do not unto others."
  • Re: was reading the wiki
     Reply #21 - September 30, 2010, 07:54 PM
    Tabun, just to be clear: do you understand the fundamental difference between actively promoting or approving of something, and simply not condemning something?
    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Re: was reading the wiki
     Reply #22 - September 30, 2010, 08:00 PM
    Quote from: Ishina on September 30, 2010, 07:40 PM
    It depends on what the child is guilty of Wink


    so if the child commits adultery then ... his parents can kill him ?? i dont think so, u should resort to sharia if u suspect it and measures would be taken by the islamic state

    that i think has nothing to do with honour killings , its a muslim misunderstanding taking measures by themselves (which i think is prohibited in an islamic states), right?... but even if ,then sharia should judge the parent for killing his child right?
    Confucius:
    "What you do not like done to yourself, do not unto others."
  • Re: was reading the wiki
     Reply #23 - September 30, 2010, 08:03 PM
    Quote from: Ishina on September 30, 2010, 07:54 PM
    Tabun, just to be clear: do you understand the fundamental difference between actively promoting or approving of something, and simply not condemning something?


    but it does condemn killing one's children .... now i am so confused  wacko
    Confucius:
    "What you do not like done to yourself, do not unto others."
  • Re: was reading the wiki
     Reply #24 - September 30, 2010, 08:05 PM
    r
  • Re: was reading the wiki
     Reply #25 - September 30, 2010, 08:05 PM
    Quote from: Ishina on September 30, 2010, 07:54 PM
    Tabun, just to be clear: do you understand the fundamental difference between actively promoting or approving of something, and simply not condemning something?

    This up
    My Book     news002       
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  • Re: was reading the wiki
     Reply #26 - September 30, 2010, 08:06 PM
    Quote from: Mount A Bison on September 30, 2010, 08:05 PM
    @Tabun

    Do you have a terminal allergy to the Caps Lock key? Disable your ellipses for god's sake or I pledge in Allah's name that I will mount you like a bison and discharge myself manfully. I won't ask you again.

     Cheesy
    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: was reading the wiki
     Reply #27 - September 30, 2010, 08:11 PM
    if i understood correctly.....
    lol but
    i am not writing in caps
    Confucius:
    "What you do not like done to yourself, do not unto others."
  • Re: was reading the wiki
     Reply #28 - September 30, 2010, 08:19 PM
    Quote from: Mount A Bison on September 30, 2010, 07:46 PM
    The Cosmic Daddy doesn't follow convention merely in depicting the eternally damned as black. His Excellency will actively change the biology of white people to make them black as a mark of retribution and blacks into white. If you can think of a more ignominious way of expressing contempt for darkies, you can do something I cannot.


    Granted, it's weird that the Qur'an should say such a thing. But I doubt that the author intended any racial prejudice in it. It just looks like a clumsy use of imagery to me.

    Quote from: Mount A Bison on September 30, 2010, 07:46 PM
    To cite this passage as a mark of Islam's commitment to non-racism is the height of polemical desperation. It says nothing about race at all. Going further, if Bilal is admitted into heaven, what does it say about the creed that he will be doing so only as a white guy?


    I think the word 'peoples' is quite obviously referring to different races. And this verse is understood by Islamic exegetes as referring to racial equality among different peoples. E.g., Ibn Kathir's explanation:

    Therefore, all people are the descendants of Adam and Hawwa and share this honour equally. The only difference between them is in the religion that revolves around their obedience to Allah the Exalted and their following of His Messenger. After He forbade back-biting and belittling other people, alerting mankind that they are all equal in their humanity.
  • Re: was reading the wiki
     Reply #29 - September 30, 2010, 08:19 PM
    Who said honor killing is only about a parent killing his/her child? As far as I'm aware, honor killings are often perpetrated by the brother or uncle.

    Also, iirc, the Qur'an does promote the death penalty for adultery/fornication, and since honor killings are often directly related to those acts, it could be said the Qur'an gave them the idea in the first place.
    The only thing we have to fear is fear itself
    - 32nd United States President Franklin D. Roosevelt
  • 12 3 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »