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 Topic: New Planet: Another Earth discovered by scientists?

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  • Re: New Planet: Another Earth discovered by scientists?
     Reply #30 - October 01, 2010, 11:22 AM
    Quote from: RIBS on October 01, 2010, 11:16 AM
    Ok, I did not hear the Fahrenheit bit, but as you said, it is still very hot for our kind (400 degree Fahrenheit = 204 degree Celsius). Maybe some strange bacteria? But, what I did not like is the "like earth bit". Earth is not 200 degrees C! Double the boiling point.



    If life can exist at temperatures of -50 to 100C, it does not take a huge leap of the imagination to assume a form of reproducing protein can exist at 200C.
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  • Re: New Planet: Another Earth discovered by scientists?
     Reply #31 - October 01, 2010, 11:25 AM
    Quote from: IsLame on October 01, 2010, 11:22 AM
    If life can exist at temperatures of -50 to 100C, it does not take a huge leap of the imagination to assume a form of reproducing protein can exist at 200C.


    You don't need to imagine it, it happens here on Earth at temperatures over 400C.
    I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
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  • Re: New Planet: Another Earth discovered by scientists?
     Reply #32 - October 01, 2010, 11:29 AM
    ..
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  • Re: New Planet: Another Earth discovered by scientists?
     Reply #33 - October 01, 2010, 11:31 AM
    I posted a link above, they are called extremophiles.

    http://www.livescience.com/animals/050207_extremophiles.html
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  • Re: New Planet: Another Earth discovered by scientists?
     Reply #34 - October 01, 2010, 11:37 AM
    Quote from: TheRationalizer on October 01, 2010, 11:19 AM
    There are life forms on Earth that live at around 400c.http://www.livescience.com/animals/050207_extremophiles.html

    By live you mean they dont die at 400C Wink, but they cant reproduce at these temperatures which is a pre-requisite for life.
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  • Re: New Planet: Another Earth discovered by scientists?
     Reply #35 - October 01, 2010, 11:39 AM
    Quote from: IsLame on October 01, 2010, 11:37 AM
    By live you mean they dont die at 400C Wink, but they cant reproduce at these temperatures which is a pre-requisite for life.


    I am not familiar with that fact, where did you get it from?
    Remember, the planet's temperature is said to be 204C, not 400C.
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  • Re: New Planet: Another Earth discovered by scientists?
     Reply #36 - October 01, 2010, 11:52 AM
    Quote from: TheRationalizer on October 01, 2010, 11:39 AM
    Remember, the planet's temperature is said to be 204C, not 400C.

    204C is still too high.  

    Quote from: TheRationalizer on October 01, 2010, 11:39 AM
    I am not familiar with that fact, where did you get it from?

    From the link you posted

    Quote
    Hot and hotter: Hyperthermophiles are organisms that prefer temperatures above 140 degrees Fahrenheit, some even as high as 250°F (121°C), although those have trouble reproducing.

     
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  • Re: New Planet: Another Earth discovered by scientists?
     Reply #37 - October 01, 2010, 11:55 AM
    Ah okay, back to our imagination then Smiley

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  • Re: New Planet: Another Earth discovered by scientists?
     Reply #38 - October 01, 2010, 11:58 AM
    Quote from: TheRationalizer on October 01, 2010, 11:19 AM
    When you heat water its volume increases, when you cool it then it decreases.

    But only by a miniscule amount, and of course if you cool it enough it expands again. Wink 

    Quote
    I remember reading that to increase temperature you can compress.  Maybe that was only for gasses because liquids are already so dense.

    Yes, you're thinking of gases (which are compressible).


    Quote
    What is indisputable though is that the boiling point of water does vary based on atmospheric pressure, it's only 100c at the pressure experienced at sea level on Earth.  A higher pressure will result in the water remaining a liquid beyond 100c so it won't be steam.

    Yup. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boiling_point

    Quote
    The boiling point of an element or a substance is the temperature at which the vapor pressure of the liquid equals the environmental pressure surrounding the liquid............................................At that temperature, the vapor pressure of the liquid becomes sufficient to overcome atmospheric pressure and lift the liquid to form bubbles inside the bulk of the liquid.



    Quote
    There are life forms on Earth that live at around 400c.http://www.livescience.com/animals/050207_extremophiles.html

    400F is only 204C

    No. That link only says that the water in the vents themselves is at up to 400C, not that anything lives right in there at those temperatures. Obviously the water just outside the vents is a fair bit cooler (although still hot).
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: New Planet: Another Earth discovered by scientists?
     Reply #39 - October 01, 2010, 12:03 PM
    Quote from: osmanthus on October 01, 2010, 11:58 AM
    But only by a miniscule amount, and of course if you cool it enough it expands again. Wink 


    Ah no, that's cheating.  The water doesn't expand, it turns to ice Smiley


    Quote from: osmanthus on October 01, 2010, 11:58 AM
    Yes, you're thinking of gases (which are compressible).

    Yup. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boiling_point


    I can see why atmospheric pressure would alter the evaporation point of water but not why it would alter the boiling point seeing as it is a covalent chemical bond that holds together H2O.  Do you know?


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  • Re: New Planet: Another Earth discovered by scientists?
     Reply #40 - October 01, 2010, 12:08 PM
    Well it still expands. Tongue And yes, it's explained by what I quoted and linked. Boiling is basically just bubbles forming inside the liquid, and that depends on vapour pressure in relation to ambient pressure. Also, boiling has nothing to do with breaking apart H2O. Steam is still made up of H2O molecules. The molecules are not actually joined to each other in liquid water.
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: New Planet: Another Earth discovered by scientists?
     Reply #41 - October 01, 2010, 12:09 PM
    http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=habitable-exoplanet-gliese-581


    Quote
    Of the four previously known planets orbiting the diminutive star, two bracket what astrobiologists call the habitable zone, or the "Goldilocks zone"—the region of space surrounding a star that is neither too hot nor too cold for liquid water and just possibly life. The smaller of the two new worlds, Gliese 581g, orbits right between those two planets, placing it more squarely in the star's habitable zone. Nevertheless, Earthlings would not mistake Gliese 581g for their home planet—in addition to its so-called super-Earth dimensions, it orbits a star far smaller and dimmer than the sun, and its average surface temperatures would vary dramatically, from well below freezing on its night side to scorching hot on the day side.

    But somewhere between those temperature extremes, which Vogt estimated might range from –35 to 70 degrees Celsius, would exist stable climatic bands, which Vogt called "eco-longitudes," within which liquid water might persist. Because the planet is probably tidally locked, showing only one hemisphere to its star just as the moon does to Earth, the temperate band between permanent daylight and permanent night might afford life a toehold. "There is a continuum of temperatures in between that are stable," Vogt said. "You just have to move around on the surface."

    The actual surface temperatures of Gliese 581g depend on a number of factors that are currently unknown—such as the planet's reflectivity and the strength of any greenhouse effect it might have. "We can't say anything for sure about its atmosphere or about water," study co-author Paul Butler of the Carnegie Institution of Washington said during the Webcast. But what is known about the planet qualifies it as at least potentially habitable. "Its mass would be sufficient to hold a nice, strong atmosphere like Earth," Butler said, "and there would be places on the surface that would be sufficient for water."


    Dr. Steven S. Vogt http://www.ucolick.org/~vogt/

    I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I remain.
  • Re: New Planet: Another Earth discovered by scientists?
     Reply #42 - October 01, 2010, 12:10 PM
    Quote from: TheRationalizer on October 01, 2010, 12:03 PM
    I can see why atmospheric pressure would alter the evaporation point of water but not why it would alter the boiling point seeing as it is a covalent chemical bond that holds together H2O.  Do you know?

    rough guess: at lesser pressures, less energy is required to keeping it in liquid form.  
    And lesser energy = lesser temperature
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  • Re: New Planet: Another Earth discovered by scientists?
     Reply #43 - October 01, 2010, 12:12 PM
    Quote from: osmanthus on October 01, 2010, 12:08 PM
    Well it still expands. Tongue And yes, it's explained by what I quoted and linked. Boiling is basically just bubbles forming inside the liquid, and that depends on vapour pressure in relation to ambient pressure. Also, boiling has nothing to do with breaking apart H2O. Steam is still made up of H2O molecules. The molecules are not actually joined to each other in liquid water.


    Bah, of course, otherwise when you boiled water the house would explode.  That must have been something I had in my brain from childhood and not yet reevalutated, thanks!

    What still confuses me though is, where do the bubbles come from?
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  • Re: New Planet: Another Earth discovered by scientists?
     Reply #44 - October 01, 2010, 12:26 PM
    Quote from: TheRationalizer on October 01, 2010, 10:56 AM
    If you touch something the perceived temperature depends on how much energy travels into your body and how focused that energy is.  The smaller the area the hotter it will feel.  So 400c on Gliese will feel the same as 400c on Earth. 

    I wasn't remarking on the temperature, I was saying that water can be hotter than 100c and still not boil.

    Exactly. As in automobile , pressurised cooling systems.
    Religion is ignorance giftwrapped in lyricism.
  • Re: New Planet: Another Earth discovered by scientists?
     Reply #45 - October 01, 2010, 12:33 PM
    Temperature apart, nobody's speculated on the force of gravity there of whether the thing spins or not or whether it may have a satellite moon or whether it's orbit is circular or elliptical.
    These are all very relevant to our kind of life.
    Religion is ignorance giftwrapped in lyricism.
  • Re: New Planet: Another Earth discovered by scientists?
     Reply #46 - October 01, 2010, 12:35 PM
    Quote from: TheRationalizer on October 01, 2010, 12:12 PM
    Bah, of course, otherwise when you boiled water the house would explode.  That must have been something I had in my brain from childhood and not yet reevalutated, thanks!

    What still confuses me though is, where do the bubbles come from?

    Look up nucleation. I'm about to crash for the night. Short version: impurities in the water are the main cause.
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: New Planet: Another Earth discovered by scientists?
     Reply #47 - October 01, 2010, 12:54 PM
    Quote from: IsLame on October 01, 2010, 11:22 AM
    If life can exist at temperatures of -50 to 100C, it does not take a huge leap of the imagination to assume a form of reproducing protein can exist at 200C.

    water bears are even hardier creatures and are able to withstand extreme pressures (6000 atmospheres!) & temps ranging from -272C degrees and up to 150C! 
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  • Re: New Planet: Another Earth discovered by scientists?
     Reply #48 - October 01, 2010, 04:20 PM
    anyone know where that video has gone about a weeks ago which showed life existng in extreme conditions just above the ocean floor, above an underwater volcano - my brother was asking me about it today & wants to see it but I cant remember which thread I saw it in?
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  • Re: New Planet: Another Earth discovered by scientists?
     Reply #49 - October 01, 2010, 05:24 PM
    Puzzling. The upsurge of excitement is lost on me. Two likely outcomes would follow from any extraterrestrial encounter. They would instantly send us leaping into the arms of God uninvited or we them. Which might not be an altogether undesirable outcome from the vantage of our eco-system. Our track record for dealing with foreign races leaves much to be desired.

    Still, these new photos make for sightly coffee table pictures don't they.

  • Re: New Planet: Another Earth discovered by scientists?
     Reply #50 - October 01, 2010, 10:03 PM
    Quote from: Mount A Bison on October 01, 2010, 05:24 PM
    Puzzling. The upsurge of excitement is lost on me. Two likely outcomes would follow from any extraterrestrial encounter. They would instantly send us leaping into the arms of God uninvited or we them. Which might not be an altogether undesirable outcome from the vantage of our eco-system. Our track record for dealing with foreign races leaves much to be desired.

    Still, these new photos make for sightly coffee table pictures don't they.

    That's true, MAB.  Chances are they will make mince meat of us (so to speak) and exploit the resources on our planet, and move on to another planet.  Speaking personally, I hope we can unite with them and evolve into yet more advanced life forms.


    We, as an advanced civilisation, have only existed for a minuscule period of time in the grand time-scale of the earth's life.  And the fact that we haven't already been visited (as far as we know) by aliens suggests that either civilisations never evolve much further than we have got (before destroying themselves), or that it is extremely improbably that life evolves to the extent that we have evolved.
    "Many people would sooner die than think; In fact, they do so." -- Bertrand Russell

    Baloney Detection Kit
  • Re: New Planet: Another Earth discovered by scientists?
     Reply #51 - October 01, 2010, 11:16 PM
    q
  • Re: New Planet: Another Earth discovered by scientists?
     Reply #52 - October 01, 2010, 11:34 PM
    I lurfe view man.  Cheesy

    My dear Bison, by 'advanced civilisation', I mean one capable of asking the question: are there other planets out there capable of supporting life, and one that possesses the technology to search for that. aloofandbored0
    "Many people would sooner die than think; In fact, they do so." -- Bertrand Russell

    Baloney Detection Kit
  • Re: New Planet: Another Earth discovered by scientists?
     Reply #53 - October 01, 2010, 11:58 PM
    d
  • Re: New Planet: Another Earth discovered by scientists?
     Reply #54 - October 02, 2010, 01:53 AM
    I can envision a world without war.  I can also envision us taking over that world because they would never see it coming.
    So once again I'm left with the classic Irish man's dilemma, do I eat the potato or do I let it ferment so I can drink it later?
    My political philosophy below
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwGat4i8pJI&feature=g-vrec
    Just kidding, here are some true heros
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBTgvK6LQqA
  • Re: New Planet: Another Earth discovered by scientists?
     Reply #55 - October 02, 2010, 03:01 AM
    Quote from: billy on October 01, 2010, 09:12 AM
    I love stories like this.


     yes yes
    "He hoped and prayed that there wasn't an afterlife. Then he realized there was a contradiction involved here and merely hoped that there wasn't an afterlife."
    ~ Douglas Adams
  • Re: New Planet: Another Earth discovered by scientists?
     Reply #56 - October 02, 2010, 04:30 AM
    Assuming that all it takes to produce or sustain life is the "Goldilocks zone", a planet being in a correct position that it is neither too hot nor too cold and can sustain life, one could assume that there must be life somewhere in the universe. The probability is far too great that only Earth could sustain life...

    Makes you think there could be people or animals of some kind somewhere in the universe asking the same questions as we ask ourselves.  Afro
  • Re: New Planet: Another Earth discovered by scientists?
     Reply #57 - October 02, 2010, 05:36 AM
    I believe we will grow out of our bodies sooner than we will grow out of our planet. If we can survive to do either, that is.
  • Re: New Planet: Another Earth discovered by scientists?
     Reply #58 - October 02, 2010, 07:58 AM
    Quote from: Mount A Bison on October 01, 2010, 11:58 PM
    @Teapot

     You ponder on questions of first and last things? Fascinating.  I never give my head over to such ugly matters. Sez me: Let a man slip in the gay porn dvd and kick back with a glass of red in one hand, a raunchy barbecue rib in the other and a shapely young babe on his knee. What more do you want? Thinking is dangerous. Desist you scoundrel.


    Just keep me out of it, this is between you and Ateapotist.  finmad
    ...
  • Re: New Planet: Another Earth discovered by scientists?
     Reply #59 - October 02, 2010, 08:02 AM
    Quote from: Unechance on October 02, 2010, 04:30 AM
    Assuming that all it takes to produce or sustain life is the "Goldilocks zone", a planet being in a correct position that it is neither too hot nor too cold and can sustain life, one could assume that there must be life somewhere in the universe. The probability is far too great that only Earth could sustain life...

    Makes you think there could be people or animals of some kind somewhere in the universe asking the same questions as we ask ourselves.  Afro


    This is what most scientists think, I guess. They say the distance is way too far for any intelligent life to travel to the other. They would have visited us by then. Or did they?  Greetings Greetings
    ...
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