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Theme Changer

 Topic: 24:45, water or sperm?

 (Read 16613 times)
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  • Re: 24:45, water or sperm?
     Reply #30 - October 25, 2010, 09:14 PM
    Quote from: IsLame on October 25, 2010, 08:43 PM
    You mean 'just as ' dont you?


    Only in natural reproduction. In artificial reproduction it is possible to make babies without sperm but not without eggs.  The egg is far more important.


    Quote from: IsLame on October 25, 2010, 08:43 PM
    They do provide the same number of chromosomes after all.Interesting - what makes you think this -  Is it what greeks thought?


    I don't recall the source, but I seem to remember a Greek belief that babies come from the mixing of 2 liquids.  One being sperm and the other being the blood which comes from a woman during her menstrual cycle (obviously while it is still inside her.)
    I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
  • Re: 24:45, water or sperm?
     Reply #31 - October 25, 2010, 09:19 PM
    Quote from: mighty_cats on October 25, 2010, 09:05 PM
    Ofcourse, else you'd have to begin with all animals already existing.
    (EG/ try and explain chickens and rabbits in the Era of the Stegosaurus)


    Okay. That is just it. We do not now see natural selection causing one species to change into another. Horse with donkey equals mule. Very useful animal but mule does not bred with mule to make more useful strong mules.

    Very simplified story.

    Natural selection however is very useful for change with a species to make that species better for it's environment. Often seen in insects.

    The Bible says God created Each animal according to it's kind. Now "kind" is not a science word but can be used similiarly to the science word 'species".

    Also look at the fossil record. Do we see gradual change from one to another? No. It is not there in the fossil record.
    If at first you succeed...try something harder.

    Failing isn't falling down. Failing is not getting back up again.
  • Re: 24:45, water or sperm?
     Reply #32 - October 25, 2010, 09:21 PM
    Quote from: Lynna on October 25, 2010, 09:19 PM
    Okay. That is just it. We do not now see natural selection causing one species to change into another. Horse with donkey equals mule. Very useful animal but mule does not bred with mule to make more useful strong mules.


    Yes we do, there are plenty of observed occurrences.  Google "Observed instances of speciation".  Here is a specific case.
    http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/evolution/library/05/2/l_052_05.html
    I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
  • Re: 24:45, water or sperm?
     Reply #33 - October 25, 2010, 09:22 PM
    Quote from: Zebedee on October 25, 2010, 09:10 PM
    Not natural selection by itself, but in conjunction with genetic mutation, yes. At least, that's what the theory stipulates.


    Okay remember I'm a nurse and have a pretty good medical education. How many GOOD genetic mutation do we regularly see?
    If at first you succeed...try something harder.

    Failing isn't falling down. Failing is not getting back up again.
  • Re: 24:45, water or sperm?
     Reply #34 - October 25, 2010, 09:25 PM
    Quote from: Lynna on October 25, 2010, 09:22 PM
    Okay remember I'm a nurse and have a pretty good medical education. How many GOOD genetic mutation do we regularly see?


    "Good" genetic mutation?  Genetic mutations aren't "good".  If a mutation takes hold in a group then later when their environment changes it either

    A: Proves to be beneficial
    B: Proves to be the least detrimental

    You should read "The Greatest Show On Earth", it explains the evidence very clearly using examples.
    I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
  • Re: 24:45, water or sperm?
     Reply #35 - October 25, 2010, 09:28 PM
    Quote from: TheRationalizer on October 25, 2010, 09:21 PM
    Yes we do, there are plenty of observed occurrences.  Google "Observed instances of speciation".  Here is a specific case.
    http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/evolution/library/05/2/l_052_05.html


    Seems like it is still a salamander. However I will bookmark it and read it.
    If at first you succeed...try something harder.

    Failing isn't falling down. Failing is not getting back up again.
  • Re: 24:45, water or sperm?
     Reply #36 - October 25, 2010, 09:30 PM
    Quote from: Lynna on October 25, 2010, 09:19 PM
    Also look at the fossil record. Do we see gradual change from one to another?

    Yes.

    Quote from: Lynna on October 25, 2010, 09:19 PM
    No. It is not there in the fossil record.

    What are you, a time traveler from the early 1900's? When was the last time you looked at the fossil record?

    You might find this interesting:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qfoje7jVJpU
    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Re: 24:45, water or sperm?
     Reply #37 - October 25, 2010, 09:31 PM
    Quote from: Lynna on October 25, 2010, 09:28 PM
    Seems like it is still a salamander. However I will bookmark it and read it.


    Sure it's a salamander, but reproductive wise it has become incompatible with the salamanders at the other extreme.  That means that the salamanders on the West are genetically isolated from the ones on the East.  They are now free to have their average genetic information diverge from each other without the risk of cross breeding.  They are now on separate paths, they have diverged, they cannot now merge back into one.

    What you are seeing is the emersion of new species from a shared ancestor.
    I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
  • Re: 24:45, water or sperm?
     Reply #38 - October 25, 2010, 09:33 PM
    Quote from: TheRationalizer on October 25, 2010, 09:25 PM
    "Good" genetic mutation?  Genetic mutations aren't "good".  If a mutation takes hold in a group then later when their environment changes it either

    A: Proves to be beneficial
    B: Proves to be the least detrimental

    You should read "The Greatest Show On Earth", it explains the evidence very clearly using examples.


    Okay. Let's fight about words. Sometimes it is worth it, at least difining thier use. English spelling gives me trouble and my time is limited. You  two difinition are better. So what are the mathamatical odds of mutations causing beneficial changes over what period of time?
    If at first you succeed...try something harder.

    Failing isn't falling down. Failing is not getting back up again.
  • Re: 24:45, water or sperm?
     Reply #39 - October 25, 2010, 09:35 PM
    Quote from: Lynna on October 25, 2010, 09:33 PM
    Okay. Let's fight about words. Sometimes it is worth it, at least difining thier use. English spelling gives me trouble and my time is limited. You  two difinition are better. So what are the mathamatical odds of mutations causing beneficial changes over what period of time?


    Are you familiar with the e-coli experiment?  The one where the e-coli experienced multiple mutations to its DNA which allowed it to start consuming citric acid?
    I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
  • Re: 24:45, water or sperm?
     Reply #40 - October 25, 2010, 09:37 PM
    Quote from: Lynna on October 25, 2010, 09:22 PM
    Okay remember I'm a nurse and have a pretty good medical education. How many GOOD genetic mutation do we regularly see?


    How many life-permitting planets do we see? Not many, but that does not mean that they do not exist. Biologists freely acknowledge that most mutations are harmful to organisms.

    But I guess salient examples would be the mutation that allegedly caused the 'nylonase' gene in a species of bacteria, or polyploidy in plants.

    Quote from: Lynna on October 25, 2010, 09:19 PM
    The Bible says God created Each animal according to it's kind. Now "kind" is not a science word but can be used similiarly to the science word 'species".


    That doesn't necessarily contradict evolution. Every generation is of the same species, but with a different genetic make-up. Speciation only happens when the exchange of genetic information between two groups of a species is prevented, be it due to a migration of one group to another habitat or the like.

    After the groups of the same species have separated, natural selection and gene mutation gradually affect the genetic make up of each until there comes a point at which the two groups are no longer genetically compatible.

    So, each species does follow from its own kind or species. There's no reason really as to why that vague verse necessarily contradicts evolution.
  • Re: 24:45, water or sperm?
     Reply #41 - October 25, 2010, 09:39 PM
    Perhaps you have haven't because if that is the best you can do, it is rather poor.

    How about just a nice graft of one to the next to the next?
    If at first you succeed...try something harder.

    Failing isn't falling down. Failing is not getting back up again.
  • Re: 24:45, water or sperm?
     Reply #42 - October 25, 2010, 09:41 PM
    Quote from: Lynna on October 25, 2010, 09:39 PM
    Perhaps you have haven't because if that is the best you can do, it is rather poor.

    How about just a nice graft of one to the next to the next?


    Is this a reply to me?  If so I have no idea what you are saying.  Perhaps I haven't what?  Graft what from where to where?
    I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
  • Re: 24:45, water or sperm?
     Reply #43 - October 25, 2010, 09:43 PM
    @TheRationalizer

    That was not a response to you.
    If at first you succeed...try something harder.

    Failing isn't falling down. Failing is not getting back up again.
  • Re: 24:45, water or sperm?
     Reply #44 - October 25, 2010, 09:47 PM
    Quote from: Lynna on October 25, 2010, 09:43 PM
    @TheRationalizer

    That was not a response to you.


    Well, it was white noise to me too.
  • Re: 24:45, water or sperm?
     Reply #45 - October 25, 2010, 09:47 PM
    @Zebedee

    Okay. I used one verse there using the word "kind", your claim is correct.

    I also said I would be williing to methodically review alot of information regarding this topic.

    How willing are you to do that?
    If at first you succeed...try something harder.

    Failing isn't falling down. Failing is not getting back up again.
  • Re: 24:45, water or sperm?
     Reply #46 - October 25, 2010, 09:48 PM
    Quote from: Zebedee on October 25, 2010, 09:47 PM
    Well, it was white noise to me too.


    I don't know what a "white noise" is?
    If at first you succeed...try something harder.

    Failing isn't falling down. Failing is not getting back up again.
  • Re: 24:45, water or sperm?
     Reply #47 - October 25, 2010, 09:49 PM
    Quote from: Lynna on October 25, 2010, 09:39 PM
    How about just a nice graft of one to the next to the next?


    Do you mean like this?






    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Re: 24:45, water or sperm?
     Reply #48 - October 25, 2010, 09:49 PM
    Quote from: Lynna on October 25, 2010, 09:47 PM
    I also said I would be williing to methodically review alot of information regarding this topic.


    Great.  Start by reading "The Greatest Show On Earth".  It seems you are unfamiliar with basic concepts.
    I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
  • Re: 24:45, water or sperm?
     Reply #49 - October 25, 2010, 09:50 PM
    @Lynna

    Hit me.
  • Re: 24:45, water or sperm?
     Reply #50 - October 25, 2010, 10:00 PM
    Quote from: TheRationalizer on October 25, 2010, 09:49 PM
    Great.  Start by reading "The Greatest Show On Earth".  It seems you are unfamiliar with basic concepts.


    Is it on CD? I'll try and find out. Because of my brian injury it is very difficult for my to do new reading.  Listening is fine and my IQ isn't damaged.  But really the basic concept is not what I am unfamiiliar with I am a college grad. and like I've said I'm a nurse so I've had more then some science. I do believe it is poor reasoning to attack some ones level of eduction because they don't agree with you. Is your eduction in science?
    If at first you succeed...try something harder.

    Failing isn't falling down. Failing is not getting back up again.
  • Re: 24:45, water or sperm?
     Reply #51 - October 25, 2010, 10:02 PM
    Quote from: Lynna on October 25, 2010, 10:00 PM
    Is it on CD? I'll try and find out. Because of my brian injury it is very difficult for my to do new reading.  Listening is fine and my IQ isn't damaged.  But really the basic concept is not what I am unfamiiliar with I am a college grad. and like I've said I'm a nurse so I've had more then some science. I do believe it is poor reasoning to attack some ones level of eduction because they don't agree with you. Is your eduction in science?


    http://richarddawkins.net/pages/audio_books
    It's on there as an audio book.

    I didn't insult your level of education, I said that you seem to be unfamiliar with basic concepts.  Digest the book.
    I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
  • Re: 24:45, water or sperm?
     Reply #52 - October 25, 2010, 10:12 PM
    Hey Rationalizer

    While you're here, have you ever heard anything about there being any evidence to suggest that Homo sapiens has possibly existed for millions of years? I mean like, as many as 10 million?

    Someone gave me a book called the 'Hidden History of the Human Race' or something to that effect. I suspect it's BS, but I wonder if there exist any refutations of its claims.
  • Re: 24:45, water or sperm?
     Reply #53 - October 25, 2010, 10:16 PM
    Quote from: Zebedee on October 25, 2010, 09:50 PM
    @Lynna

    Hit me.


    @Zebedee
    Okay. Of all those who have been speaking up here at this point I'm really most interested in continuing the conversation with you.

    I don't have a computer, so am not on regularly and am seldom in a hurry about things.

    I believe God created the world and all things in it, as well as the universe and all things beyond it. It is my stand that evolution was not God's method of creation and this can be estabished using the Bible.
    If at first you succeed...try something harder.

    Failing isn't falling down. Failing is not getting back up again.
  • Re: 24:45, water or sperm?
     Reply #54 - October 25, 2010, 10:18 PM
    Good luck Zebedee  Afro
    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Re: 24:45, water or sperm?
     Reply #55 - October 25, 2010, 10:29 PM
    @Ishina

    When you have a chance check out how much of the skull they actually have in most of the cases and how much was assumed.

    I am looking for the progress of one animal as it becomes the next and the next and the next.

    Not how this part of this animal is like this part of this other animal.

    Do you understand the difference?

    It takes a little more then showing a little boob.
    If at first you succeed...try something harder.

    Failing isn't falling down. Failing is not getting back up again.
  • Re: 24:45, water or sperm?
     Reply #56 - October 25, 2010, 10:30 PM
    Quote from: Ishina on October 25, 2010, 10:18 PM
    Good luck Zebedee  Afro


    Thanks!

    Quote from: Lynna on October 25, 2010, 10:16 PM
    @Zebedee
    Okay. Of all those who have been speaking up here at this point I'm really most interested in continuing the conversation with you.

    I don't have a computer, so am not on regularly and am seldom in a hurry about things.

    I believe God created the world and all things in it, as well as the universe and all things beyond it. It is my stand that evolution was not God's method of creation and this can be estabished using the Bible.


    Well then, please show us the verses that you think contradict evolution. And while we're at it, do you know of any verse in the Bible that mentions the age of the earth? Particularly, that it is between 6,000 and 10,000 years old, or is that just something that Young-Earthers made up?

    And fine, I'll simply bookmark the thread and respond to your arguments when you present them.
  • Re: 24:45, water or sperm?
     Reply #57 - October 25, 2010, 10:35 PM
    Quote from: Lynna on October 25, 2010, 09:48 PM
    I don't know what a "white noise" is?

    irritating background noise that wont go away and spoils a good song, like you get on a badly recorded CD
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  • Re: 24:45, water or sperm?
     Reply #58 - October 25, 2010, 10:42 PM
    Quote from: Lynna on October 25, 2010, 10:29 PM
    When you have a chance check out how much of the skull they actually have in most of the cases and how much was assumed.

    Its just what I brought up with a simple google search.

    Quote from: Lynna on October 25, 2010, 10:29 PM
    I am looking for the progress of one animal as it becomes the next and the next and the next.

    Not how this part of this animal is like this part of this other animal.

    Do you understand the difference?


    No. Can you explain it to me please?

    Quote from: Lynna on October 25, 2010, 10:29 PM
    It takes a little more then showing a little boob.


    Can you explain this to me please?
    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Re: 24:45, water or sperm?
     Reply #59 - October 26, 2010, 06:42 AM
    Quote from: Zebedee on October 25, 2010, 10:12 PM

    While you're here, have you ever heard anything about there being any evidence to suggest that Homo sapiens has possibly existed for millions of years? I mean like, as many as 10 million?


    Nope.
    I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
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