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Theme Changer

 Topic: Hi

 (Read 5352 times)
  • 1« Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Hi
     OP - November 08, 2010, 09:42 PM

    Hi,

    I hope you don't mind reading this overly verbose introduction.  I started with the desire to write a couple brief paragraphs but it extended a bit longer than anticipated.

    I discovered this site after watching an inspiring video by Nessrriinn.  I've been an atheist for most of my life and, since I don't see myself as having 'abandoned' religion, there was an initial inclination to just read a couple posts here and then move on.  In recent years, I've lurked on a variety of religious and non-religious forums, hoping to gather snapshots of the diversity of opinion and ideology.  The free-thinking camps I've frequented tend to be composed of many ex-Christians, a smaller number of life-long agnostics/atheists and the occasional Christian apologist but rarely any ex-Muslims or Muslims.  I wanted to know what the believing outsiders were thinking.

    Religious perspectives have been of great interest to me since my early youth.  To me, the human hand in scripture was always extremely probable.  That's why it has been baffling to me that so many people take this bible/Quran stuff so seriously.  As a teen, I used to spend time discussing religion with Christian friends wondering if I could identify the utility of willful self-deception.  One devout Christian was honest enough to share his primary reason for believing - that having faith makes one stronger.  That kind of frank opinion was one I could almost respect.  Further, I could see much value coming out of religious affiliation, community and ritual.  Sure, folks could go around their communities musing about the truth of mythology while acknowledging to the more learned that such stories are but metaphors.

    From the level-headed outlook of my fellow Canadian theist friends, religion seemed friendly and pretty innocuous.  What I didn't realize is that, if I were to travel south into the heart of the neighbouring country, people actually believe this stuff.  An even greater shock would later occur in a random conversation with a Muslim neighbour.  I silently observed his unflinching lecture on the literal truth of creationism, Noah's Ark, the healing powers of Jesus, the evil conspiracies of Jews and non-believers, and the imminent return of Imam Medhi.  Although I was dumbfounded by such statements, I appreciate that he was willing to have such a dialog with me.  I've met other pious Muslims who refused to even shake my hand.

    Encounters like these helped me realize first-hand the dangers of dogmatic religion.  Religious indoctrination of children, promotion of divisiveness and deprivation of critical thinking are all evils in my opinion.  Hatred and devotion to ignorance can be witnessed on a daily basis in the real world and on some Islamic sites.  It seems that organized Islamic ideologies have much tighter controls over doctrinal questioning by it's adherents than other religions.  Driven by fear, family and group-think pressures, I can understand why so many born into the religion stay within the fold.

    In an increasingly globalized and fragile world, I see the necessity of cosmopolitanism.  Ethnic and ideological tribalism ought be relegated to the fringes.  In order to do so, brave and open-mined individuals need to champion the merits of critical thinking, freedom, equality, pluralism and integration.  I'm delighted to see that, against many obstacles, members on this site have managed to break free of the spell.  I hope to stick around for a while to hear these stories, learn from you and interact.
     
     
  • Re: Hi
     Reply #1 - November 08, 2010, 09:47 PM

    Welcome friend Smiley And what a lovely introduction, hardly verbose Smiley
  • Re: Hi
     Reply #2 - November 08, 2010, 10:08 PM

    In recent years, I've lurked on a variety of religious and non-religious forums, hoping to gather snapshots of the diversity of opinion and ideology.  The free-thinking camps I've frequented tend to be composed of many ex-Christians, a smaller number of life-long agnostics/atheists and the occasional Christian apologist but rarely any ex-Muslims or Muslims. 

    signwelcome  From what you have seen of this site so far, how does this site differ culturally from the other ex-christian sites you have frequented? 

    btw What are they called?

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Hi
     Reply #3 - November 08, 2010, 10:58 PM

                                                  signwelcome signwelcome signwelcome
     
                     
    Quote
    I'm delighted to see that, against many obstacles, members on this site have managed to break free of the spell.


    That's one of the true wonders of nature my friend! It's Mother Nature's defense mechanism to protect herself from the idiotic arrogance of humans.

                     
    Quote
    What I didn't realize is that, if I were to travel south into the heart of the neighbouring country, people actually believe this stuff.


    Now this is a modern miracle! Nobel prize winners living cheek by jowl with deluded fools,who think they are enlightened and preach their shit as the ultimate truth!



    The World is my country, all mankind are my brethren, and to do good is my religion.
                                   Thomas Paine

    Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored !- Aldous Huxley
  • Re: Hi
     Reply #4 - November 08, 2010, 11:08 PM

               
    Now this is a modern miracle! Nobel prize winners living cheek by jowl with deluded fools,who think they are enlightened and preach their shit as the ultimate truth!

    thanks for giving me the opportunity to post this again
    I now know the one (and only) true miracle of the Koran...  That over a billion human beings on this planet actually believe that incredibly toxic morass of brain blistering bullshit barfed up by an epileptic desert bandit.


    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Hi
     Reply #5 - November 09, 2010, 10:34 AM

    Welcome!

    I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
  • Re: Hi
     Reply #6 - November 09, 2010, 10:42 AM

    Hi Telomeme. Welcome! Very nice intro. Here's your parrot.  parrot

    Nessrriinn is awesome.  Afro

    "He hoped and prayed that there wasn't an afterlife. Then he realized there was a contradiction involved here and merely hoped that there wasn't an afterlife."
    ~ Douglas Adams
  • Re: Hi
     Reply #7 - November 09, 2010, 12:30 PM

    Welcome friend Smiley And what a lovely introduction, hardly verbose Smiley


    Thanks BlackDog :-)
  • Re: Hi
     Reply #8 - November 09, 2010, 12:42 PM

    signwelcome  From what you have seen of this site so far, how does this site differ culturally from the other ex-christian sites you have frequented? 
    btw What are they called?


    Well, to be honest, I've only had time to read through a half-dozen or so threads on this site so I can't say too much about the differences yet.  What originally brought me here was amazing and courageous poetry videos from the perspective of an ex-Muslim.  That's an outlook that is refreshingly new for me to see and I'm here to soak up more of it.  What I do find similar to other free-thinking sites is that people here seem intelligent, questioning and philosophically respectful of people with differing opinions.   Other freethinking sites I've observed include the RichardDawkins site, TheThinkingAtheist, FRDB and The Brights.
  • Re: Hi
     Reply #9 - November 09, 2010, 12:56 PM

                                                  signwelcome signwelcome signwelcome                
    That's one of the true wonders of nature my friend! It's Mother Nature's defense mechanism to protect herself from the idiotic arrogance of humans.


    It makes me glad that nature is ubiquitous.  I'd like to see the freethinking meme inoculate the masses.

                 
    Quote
       
    Now this is a modern miracle! Nobel prize winners living cheek by jowl with deluded fools,who think they are enlightened and preach their shit as the ultimate truth!


    It's saddening to witness all these zealots going around insisting they stand for the ultimate truth, God's truth.  Claims of victim-hood coupled with false dichotomies are used to fuel indignation against those with alternate subscriptions or lack thereof.  If only some of the pious could just stop and be humble for a moment; shine that spotlight on their own shortcomings and perhaps the world would be a better place.

  • Re: Hi
     Reply #10 - November 09, 2010, 12:59 PM

    thanks for giving me the opportunity to post this again

    Quote
    I now know the one (and only) true miracle of the Koran...  That over a billion human beings on this planet actually believe that incredibly toxic morass of brain blistering bullshit barfed up by an epileptic desert bandit.



    Nice quote.  Now here's a question for you: what percent of Muslims do you think actually believe the Quran literally?
  • Re: Hi
     Reply #11 - November 09, 2010, 12:59 PM

    Welcome!


    Thanks!
  • Re: Hi
     Reply #12 - November 09, 2010, 01:00 PM

    Hi Telomeme. Welcome! Very nice intro. Here's your parrot.  parrot

    Nessrriinn is awesome.  Afro


    Thanks for the warm welcome, Lukatic.  Yes, Nessrrinn is very impressive.
  • Re: Hi
     Reply #13 - November 09, 2010, 01:06 PM

    Nessi is brilliant, I love her videos.

    Welcome to the forum and I hope you find what you are looking for here!  victory

    Blind faith is an ironic gift to return to the Creator of human intelligence

  • Re: Hi
     Reply #14 - November 09, 2010, 03:14 PM

    Thanks Loki.
  • Re: Hi
     Reply #15 - November 09, 2010, 03:38 PM



    Nice quote.  Now here's a question for you: what percent of Muslims do you think actually believe the Quran literally?



    Because it is supposedly the direct word of God, I would say, if I were to ask the above question directly very few people who claim to be Muslims would dare to say no.  At a rough guess if I were to ask the question, say 95% believe it literally? 

    Still most are unaware of exactly whats in their scriptures, or are willing to contradict them with other verses that talk about peace & love or are happy to live with cognitive dissoance, so the situations not as bad as it could be.

    So why do you ask - what are your thoughs?

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Hi
     Reply #16 - November 09, 2010, 04:08 PM

    Quote from: Islame
    Because it is supposedly the direct word of God, I would say, if I were to ask the above question directly very few people who claim to be Muslims would dare to say no.  At a rough guess if I were to ask the question, say 95% believe it literally?

    Still most are unaware of exactly whats in their scriptures, or are willing to contradict them with other verses that talk about peace & love or are happy to live with cognitive dissoance, so the situations not as bad as it could be.

    So why do you ask - what are your thoughs?



    Wow, 95% is much higher than I would have expected for literalism in these modern times. Islam is louder in it's dogmatic assertions and the patriarchy has mastered the art of scaring people out of thinking.  I guess the Christians are better able to pick and choose their verses because of the diversity of bibles and acknowledged consortium of authors.  Further, mainstream Christianity has sought to reconcile it's theology with enlightenment values.  An Arabic-speaking friend of mine translated some of the nastier Quranic verses to include war-time context and a redefining of unbeliever to mean "evil-doer" but I understand that's not how most Muslims (at least not traditionalists) interpret this stuff.

    I ask mainly out of curiosity.  When people around here are asked their religion, many are liable to say that they're some form of Christian on the basis of their ancestry or culture as opposed to their actual beliefs.  I think many non-practicing 'Christians' are really deists, agnostics or atheists since they recognize scripture for what it is.  While I'm not a fan of such intellectual dishonesty, I'm not worried about the agendas of such people.  On the other hand, those who are religious literalists can pose serious challenges to society.
     
  • Re: Hi
     Reply #17 - November 09, 2010, 04:15 PM

    I thought it  was a weird question - how can you be a muslim if you dont believe the quran is the direct word of God.  And if it is protected by him, then how could there be any errors in there?

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Hi
     Reply #18 - November 09, 2010, 04:46 PM

    Quote from: Islame

    I thought it  was a weird question - how can you be a muslim if you dont believe the quran is the direct word of God.  And if it is protected by him, then how could there be any errors in there?


    I guess that's a testament to purity of the 'one true religion'.  It doesn't surprise me when Christians downgrade parts of the biblical text as mere parable or suggest that the religion is about it's moral teachings rather than scientific facts and divine revelation.  Contrast that with the absolutism of Islam, and it's an entirely different stance.

  • Re: Hi
     Reply #19 - November 09, 2010, 04:54 PM

    I guess that's a testament to purity of the 'one true religion'.

    True, in fairness to them it makes sense - I guess thats what they mean when they always repeat its the only religion that has remained true and in its original form, and what you would expect from a religion sent from God.

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Hi
     Reply #20 - November 09, 2010, 05:03 PM

    Quote from: Islame
    True, in fairness to them it makes sense - I guess thats what they mean when they always repeat its the only religion that has remained true and in its original form, and what you would expect from a religion sent from God.


    The idea of the unadulterated Quran has an appeal that you can't get from the plethora of other Holy texts.  I have heard something about the Shias adding or omitting some verses although this is coming from Sunnis.  With the Haadith, not all schools subscribe to the same teachings.  Puritanical religiosity is attractive to many and I suppose that's why Salafism has become such a menace.  With such sterile purity comes a nirvana of empty-headedness.
     
     
  • Re: Hi
     Reply #21 - November 09, 2010, 06:01 PM

    Puritanical religiosity is attractive to many and I suppose that's why Salafism has become such a menace.  With such sterile purity comes a nirvana of empty-headedness.

    +1

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Hi
     Reply #22 - November 09, 2010, 09:20 PM

    Welcome Telomeme! Your posts are quite complicated therefore I am sure I will learn a lot from you!

     far away hug
  • Re: Hi
     Reply #23 - November 10, 2010, 04:57 PM

    Thanks for the welcome, Eliphaz! 

    Quote from: Eliphaz
    Your posts are quite complicated therefore I am sure I will learn a lot from you!


    Yikes, I hope I'm not being too convoluted in my posts since I've never a big fan of excess wordiness.
  • Re: Hi
     Reply #24 - November 10, 2010, 06:25 PM

    Welcome Telomeme. I'm enjoying your posts so far. Wink

    "The ideal tyranny is that which is ignorantly self-administered by its victims. The most perfect slaves are, therefore, those which blissfully and unawaredly enslave themselves."
  • Re: Hi
     Reply #25 - November 10, 2010, 08:07 PM

     dance score one for the nessi!!

    theres freethinking camps ?? really.. ?
    "people acutally believe this stuff"..oh yes.. i did whole heartedly..

    hiya Telomeme HI and welcome! victory

  • Re: Hi
     Reply #26 - November 11, 2010, 05:45 PM

    Welcome Telomeme. I'm enjoying your posts so far. Wink


    Thanks, Heyjustlooking :-)
  • Re: Hi
     Reply #27 - November 11, 2010, 05:54 PM

    dance score one for the nessi!!

    theres freethinking camps ?? really.. ?


    By "camp", I meant a group of like-minded people, not the tent-pitching variety  Wink.... although the idea of ritualistic gatherings of the undogmatic has a certain ironic appeal..

    Quote from: nessrrinn
    "people acutally believe this stuff"..oh yes.. i did whole heartedly..


    We're you led to believe that the kaffirs are evil?  What was most significant factor making you question your beliefs?

    Quote from: nessrriinn
    hiya Telomeme HI and welcome! victory


    Thanks for the welcome!

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