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 Topic: Who else is still a virgin?

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  • Re: Who else is still a virgin?
     Reply #420 - December 08, 2010, 05:03 PM
    Quote from: ras111 on December 08, 2010, 04:53 PM
    But you will admit that you can relate one more than you can relate to the other


    Yep.

    Quote
    Because consequences and natural processes happen, regardless of whether one is obligated or not and because I think that a zygote should be allowed to realise its full potential if it doesn't endanger the mother's life.  Which is why I brought it up.


    Do you think a woman is ethically obligated to provide an environment for a zygote to grow?

    Quote
    This argument is pointless as we have different opinions on the zygotes


    What is more important, a woman's life being affected negatively or a non-sentient zygote being killed? And why?
  • Re: Who else is still a virgin?
     Reply #421 - December 08, 2010, 06:49 PM
    Quote from: Bardhi_i_zi on December 08, 2010, 04:56 PM
    ras11 as the blob of 4 cells still has no defined gender,


    But it would soon have one

    Quote from: Bardhi_i_zi on December 08, 2010, 04:56 PM

     you cant say that well it could be a woman and so both have the same rights... A woman should have control over her body, and have the ability to choose and control her reproduction...You, the pope, the imam can't tell a woman what she can or can't do with HER BODY!!!


    It not a question of telling her what to do with her body.  I see what you call that blob of cells as deserving of human rights as an adult.


    Quote from: Bardhi_i_zi on December 08, 2010, 04:56 PM

     Most men that are against abortions, are so because deep inside they are aware that they do not have the power of reproduction, and since the situation is like that, they want at least to control this power by not giving women the freedom to decide what she wants to do.....  voaaalaaa , this is one of the reasons of Patriarchy....


    What other men think is frankly none of my concern.  My reasons for being against abortion have nothing to do with wanting to control the woman and her body.  If I did I would have been against contraception like Papa Ratzinger.   I am against it (in normal circumstances) as I believe that one human should not have the power over life and death of another human.  And to me the zygote stage is when human life starts.  Naturally if the woman's life is in danger or it has no chance of surviving for long after birth, or perhaps in the case of rape, abortion should be considered.
    "Modern man's great illusion has been to convince himself that of all that has gone before he represents the zenith of human accomplishment, but can't summon the mental powers to read anything more demanding than emoticons. Fascinating. "

    One very horny Turk I met on the net.
  • Re: Who else is still a virgin?
     Reply #422 - December 08, 2010, 06:55 PM
     
    Quote from: Prince Spinoza on December 08, 2010, 05:03 PM

    Do you think a woman is ethically obligated to provide an environment for a zygote to grow?


    Yes as there is no other way it can grow.

     
    Quote from: Prince Spinoza on December 08, 2010, 05:03 PM

    What is more important, a woman's life being affected negatively or a non-sentient zygote being killed? And why?


    Depends on what the context is.  If the situation could have been avoided that personally I think she should have to carry it for 9 months while being supported by her partner and give the sprog up for adoption or government care if she does not want it.  She is not obliged to be its parent after.  I believe this because I think that every unborn human should be given a chance to develop its potential and become a successful adult.  It has nothing to do with wanting to control women.
    "Modern man's great illusion has been to convince himself that of all that has gone before he represents the zenith of human accomplishment, but can't summon the mental powers to read anything more demanding than emoticons. Fascinating. "

    One very horny Turk I met on the net.
  • Re: Who else is still a virgin?
     Reply #423 - December 08, 2010, 06:59 PM
    Quote
    Yes as there is no other way it can grow.


    What about some other needy woman who wants to adopt it?
    Admin of following facebook pages and groups:
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  • Re: Who else is still a virgin?
     Reply #424 - December 08, 2010, 07:04 PM
    Quote from: muddy on December 08, 2010, 06:59 PM
    What about some other needy woman who wants to adopt it?


    She can adopt it as far as I'm concerned.  I think surrogacy would be a good solution to the problem
    "Modern man's great illusion has been to convince himself that of all that has gone before he represents the zenith of human accomplishment, but can't summon the mental powers to read anything more demanding than emoticons. Fascinating. "

    One very horny Turk I met on the net.
  • Re: Who else is still a virgin?
     Reply #425 - December 08, 2010, 07:04 PM
    Quote from: ras111 on December 08, 2010, 06:49 PM
    It not a question of telling her what to do with her body.  I see what you call that blob of cells as deserving of human rights as an adult.


    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Re: Who else is still a virgin?
     Reply #426 - December 08, 2010, 07:05 PM
    What are your thoughts on stem cell reseach, ras11, is that murder?
    19:46   <zizo>: hugs could pimp u into sex

    Quote from: yeezevee
    well I am neither ex-Muslim nor absolute 100% Non-Muslim.. I am fucking Zebra

  • Re: Who else is still a virgin?
     Reply #427 - December 08, 2010, 07:07 PM
    Quote from: Ishina on December 08, 2010, 07:04 PM
    (Clicky for piccy!)


    The one in the bottom right corner is not a person YET.  That is the key issue.  Why should someone have the right to deny it the chance to reach that stage?
    "Modern man's great illusion has been to convince himself that of all that has gone before he represents the zenith of human accomplishment, but can't summon the mental powers to read anything more demanding than emoticons. Fascinating. "

    One very horny Turk I met on the net.
  • Re: Who else is still a virgin?
     Reply #428 - December 08, 2010, 07:09 PM
    Quote from: ras111 on December 08, 2010, 06:55 PM

    Yes as there is no other way it can grow.


    Why the hell does that mean she has to use HER body to allow IT to grow?


    Quote
    Depends on what the context is.  If the situation could have been avoided that personally I think she should have to carry it for 9 months


    Oh god, I'm done here.
  • Re: Who else is still a virgin?
     Reply #429 - December 08, 2010, 07:09 PM
    Quote from: ras111 on December 08, 2010, 07:07 PM
    The one in the bottom right corner is not a person YET.  That is the key issue.  Why should someone have the right to deny it the chance to reach that stage?


    Why should they grant it the chance to reach that stage?!!! Why don't they have the right to deny it?!!!
  • Re: Who else is still a virgin?
     Reply #430 - December 08, 2010, 07:12 PM
    Why does the blob of cells have the right to grow inside the woman? To affect her body? To potentially kill her?
  • Re: Who else is still a virgin?
     Reply #431 - December 08, 2010, 07:15 PM
    Quote from: ras111 on December 08, 2010, 07:07 PM
    The one in the bottom right corner is not a person YET.


    Exactly.
    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Re: Who else is still a virgin?
     Reply #432 - December 08, 2010, 07:16 PM
    Quote from: GodIsNotGreat on December 08, 2010, 07:05 PM
    What are your thoughts on stem cell reseach, ras11, is that murder?


    I have no problem with unused embryos from IVF being used for one
    "Modern man's great illusion has been to convince himself that of all that has gone before he represents the zenith of human accomplishment, but can't summon the mental powers to read anything more demanding than emoticons. Fascinating. "

    One very horny Turk I met on the net.
  • Re: Who else is still a virgin?
     Reply #433 - December 08, 2010, 07:17 PM
    Quote from: Prince Spinoza on December 08, 2010, 07:09 PM
    Why should they grant it the chance to reach that stage?!!! Why don't they have the right to deny it?!!!


    The same reason they don't have the right to deny it other, more physically developed people
    "Modern man's great illusion has been to convince himself that of all that has gone before he represents the zenith of human accomplishment, but can't summon the mental powers to read anything more demanding than emoticons. Fascinating. "

    One very horny Turk I met on the net.
  • Re: Who else is still a virgin?
     Reply #434 - December 08, 2010, 07:19 PM
    Quote from: ras111 on December 08, 2010, 07:17 PM
    The same reason they don't have the right to deny it other, more physically developed people


    No. You cannot deny it to the latter because they have feelings. You are too hung up on the sacredness of 'life'.
  • Re: Who else is still a virgin?
     Reply #435 - December 08, 2010, 07:21 PM
    Quote from: Prince Spinoza on December 08, 2010, 07:12 PM
    Why does the blob of cells have the right to grow inside the woman? To affect her body? To potentially kill her?


    I have argued again and again that if the mother's life is in danger she should have the right to save herself.  What's wrong with finding a willing surrogate who would accept the foetus instead of killing it?
    "Modern man's great illusion has been to convince himself that of all that has gone before he represents the zenith of human accomplishment, but can't summon the mental powers to read anything more demanding than emoticons. Fascinating. "

    One very horny Turk I met on the net.
  • Re: Who else is still a virgin?
     Reply #436 - December 08, 2010, 07:22 PM
    You're basically arguing the case for the soul.
    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Re: Who else is still a virgin?
     Reply #437 - December 08, 2010, 07:24 PM
    Quote from: ras111 on December 08, 2010, 07:21 PM
    I have argued again and again that if the mother's life is in danger she should have the right to save herself.  What's wrong with finding a willing surrogate who would accept the foetus instead of killing it?


    The mother's life is in danger. Women die giving birth. And even if it weren't, it would affect her in other ways. Physically, emotionally. What right does it have to affect the woman in that way?
  • Re: Who else is still a virgin?
     Reply #438 - December 08, 2010, 07:27 PM
    Quote from: Ishina on December 08, 2010, 07:22 PM
    You're basically arguing the case for the soul.


    How so? I only see them as potential individuals, that is why I cannot get myself to be fine with abortion.
    "Modern man's great illusion has been to convince himself that of all that has gone before he represents the zenith of human accomplishment, but can't summon the mental powers to read anything more demanding than emoticons. Fascinating. "

    One very horny Turk I met on the net.
  • Re: Who else is still a virgin?
     Reply #439 - December 08, 2010, 07:29 PM
    Everything is a potential individual. There are a huge number of potential people, they dont have rights because... they don't exist!
  • Re: Who else is still a virgin?
     Reply #440 - December 08, 2010, 07:30 PM
    Quote from: Prince Spinoza on December 08, 2010, 07:24 PM
    it would affect her in other ways. Physically, emotionally. What right does it have to affect the woman in that way?


    This is not an issue of rights. It does what it is meant to do, grow and live off the mother until it is born.  If the whole thing could have been avoided and the mother's life is not in any immediate danger then personally I don't think it should be denied the opportunity to eventually repay the mother in other ways for her troubles once it is able to.
    "Modern man's great illusion has been to convince himself that of all that has gone before he represents the zenith of human accomplishment, but can't summon the mental powers to read anything more demanding than emoticons. Fascinating. "

    One very horny Turk I met on the net.
  • Re: Who else is still a virgin?
     Reply #441 - December 08, 2010, 07:31 PM
    Quote from: Prince Spinoza on December 08, 2010, 07:29 PM
    Everything is a potential individual.


    You mean like the roll of toilet paper in my bog?  Is that a potential individual person too?
    "Modern man's great illusion has been to convince himself that of all that has gone before he represents the zenith of human accomplishment, but can't summon the mental powers to read anything more demanding than emoticons. Fascinating. "

    One very horny Turk I met on the net.
  • Re: Who else is still a virgin?
     Reply #442 - December 08, 2010, 07:33 PM
    Quote from: ras111 on December 08, 2010, 07:30 PM
    This is not an issue of rights. It does what it is meant to do, grow and live off the mother until it is born.  If the whole thing could have been avoided and the mother's life is not in any immediate danger then it should not be denied the opportunity to eventually repay the mother in other ways for her troubles once it is able to.


    Why only if the woman's life is in immediate danger? Is her mental health not more important than a cluster of cells that cannot feel?
  • Re: Who else is still a virgin?
     Reply #443 - December 08, 2010, 07:34 PM
    Quote from: ras111 on December 08, 2010, 07:27 PM
    How so? I only see them as potential individuals, that is why I cannot get myself to be fine with abortion.


    Are you against the morning after pill?
    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Re: Who else is still a virgin?
     Reply #444 - December 08, 2010, 07:36 PM
    Quote from: ras111 on December 08, 2010, 07:31 PM
    You mean like the roll of toilet paper in my bog?  Is that a potential individual person too?


    Yes, all the atoms in that toilet roll can become part of an individual. But guess what...we don't treat it like an individual... because it isn't one! Some of the atoms in your body could well have been part of turds.
  • Re: Who else is still a virgin?
     Reply #445 - December 08, 2010, 07:37 PM
    Quote from: Ishina on December 08, 2010, 07:34 PM
    Are you against the morning after pill?


    No of course not.
    "Modern man's great illusion has been to convince himself that of all that has gone before he represents the zenith of human accomplishment, but can't summon the mental powers to read anything more demanding than emoticons. Fascinating. "

    One very horny Turk I met on the net.
  • Re: Who else is still a virgin?
     Reply #446 - December 08, 2010, 07:38 PM
    ... do you even know what you're arguing for?
  • Re: Who else is still a virgin?
     Reply #447 - December 08, 2010, 07:39 PM
    Quote from: Prince Spinoza on December 08, 2010, 07:36 PM
    Yes, all the atoms in that toilet roll can become part of an individual. But guess what...we don't treat it like an individual... because it isn't one! Some of the atoms in your body could well have been part of turds.


    They could have been part of T Rex turds for all I care, what you are talking about is different from something which has a unique genetic makeup and is designed to organise itself in such a way that it grows into a human with full capabilities like a zygote can.  
    "Modern man's great illusion has been to convince himself that of all that has gone before he represents the zenith of human accomplishment, but can't summon the mental powers to read anything more demanding than emoticons. Fascinating. "

    One very horny Turk I met on the net.
  • Re: Who else is still a virgin?
     Reply #448 - December 08, 2010, 07:42 PM
    Quote from: ras111 on December 08, 2010, 07:39 PM
    They could have been part of T Rex turds for all I care, what you are talking about is different from something which has a unique genetic makeup and is designed to organise itself in such a way that it grows into a human with full capabilities like a zygote can.  


    Feeding off a woman. Growing inside her. Making her ill. Potentially killing her. Ruining her life.
  • Re: Who else is still a virgin?
     Reply #449 - December 08, 2010, 07:43 PM
    How about a woman removes the cluster of cells and let it fend for itself?
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