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Theme Changer

 Topic: Hi from on the fence muslim

 (Read 119531 times)
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  • Re: Hi from on the fence muslim
     Reply #120 - January 08, 2011, 03:52 AM

    @Debunker:
    Quick question if you don't mind: Do you still believe in the censorship of unIslamic websites like this one (because it is sinful) if you were the governor?  And are you currently in Saudi Arabia enjoying the fact that the current Saudi government haven't censored this site?


    I guess i was speaking in the sense that I won't provide you the tool to attack my religion... you can create your own tools, i just won't provide them to you. Besides, I sometimes visit this site (only to read) using a proxy, sometimes i don't... depends on how paranoid i am on a particular day.

    A googolplex is *precisely* as far from infinity as is the number 1.--Carl Sagan
  • Re: Hi from on the fence muslim
     Reply #121 - January 08, 2011, 03:56 AM

    Well he hasnt formally apostacised yet either, as long as somebody still believes in monotheism & Muhammed as his last messenger, then I guess they can still call themselves a Muslim.



    that's only a *technicality* so he can guard against the disintegration of his family.

    A googolplex is *precisely* as far from infinity as is the number 1.--Carl Sagan
  • Re: Hi from on the fence muslim
     Reply #122 - January 08, 2011, 03:57 AM

    oh well, I guess I have to change my sig. now  Cheesy

    A googolplex is *precisely* as far from infinity as is the number 1.--Carl Sagan
  • Re: Hi from on the fence muslim
     Reply #123 - January 08, 2011, 04:07 AM

    You didn't ask me the question, but Satan, according to Quran, received the final judgement right after he explained his reason for not bowing down to Adam: he was too proud to do it. Poor Satan didn't see it coming. He didn't expect God would pass His judgement on Satan right then and there, he had to plead with Him to give him at least a chance to exact revenge at man, who was the reason behind his fall of grace ... btw, even when Pharoah finally believed, when he was drowning, his repentence was not accepted. Satan's fate was sealed, he was cast out of God's grace right then and there regardless of whether he wanted to tempt man or not.

    If the spiritual fate of Satan was forever decided on a single act of defiance notwithstanding all his years (perhaps centuries) of scraping his head furiously on the prayer mat, this would entail that he may not, try as he might, seek penitence. That may resolve the question I posed to Aba, but the answer is pregnant with contradictions of its own. For one thing it serves to cast God in a mendacious light for he states elsewhere that "O my Servants who have transgressed against their souls! Despair not of the Mercy of Allah: for Allah forgives all sins." (39: 53) Transparently he does not forgive all sins.

    For another, it gainsays Allah's claim to be the most compassionate and merciful. No genuinely compassionnate being condemns a man for a single act of dissent. In fact, a notable hadith says that Allah forgave a man who, despite killing a hundred men, was pardoned and ushered into paradise when he died for he was genuinely contrite. Nobody suggests that Satan's refusal to kneel is remotely comparable to slaughtering a hundred souls with the abandon of the Barbarians set loose on civilisation.

    also the order to Satan to leave Paradise, doesn't mean he can't visit it (after permission was granted) he just couldn't live there.

    On what documentary evidence do you base this? The Quran makes no such claim.

    In any case, I think Paradise was a place on Earth. Satan was cast out of Heaven (not Paradise) where he was standing with Angels ready to bow down to Adam. Adam was created (in heaven?) and was sent to live in a magical realm on Earth, known as Paradise.

    The distinction between paradise and heaven is interesting, but I was using the words synonymously. The Quran makes clear that Iblis was sent "down" from heaven (7:13). The expulsion was from the higher spheres. Adam remained in heaven till his own expulsion for picking the fruit, eliciting the question of how Iblis could tempt a man from whose company he was absent.
  • Re: Hi from on the fence muslim
     Reply #124 - January 08, 2011, 04:30 AM

    @ MB

    Satan didn't disobey God *out of weakness*, for example, he disobeyed Him out of pride. Right After he saw *ALL the Angels in Heavens* bowing down as they were told, what does he do? He stands there in defiance, in God's presence, to declare that he was too proud to do it.

    I don't do Hadith (no time to explain my stance, but I'm NOT a Quran only Muslim either). As for God being the most compassionate, that's an entirely different subject I don't wish to discuss here (especially that I discussed it many time before elsewhere).


    Quote
    On what documentary evidence do you base this? The Quran makes no such claim.

    Yes it does, you can get it from the conversation (I'll show verses later). But what is your evidence that Satan was not only denied *living* in Paradise, but also visiting Paradise? (assuming he was cast out of Paradise, even though i believe he was cast out of heaven, and Paradise was a place on Earth).

    Quote
    The distinction between paradise and heaven is interesting, but I was using the words synonymously. The Quran makes clear that Iblis was sent "down" from heaven (7:13). The expulsion was from the higher spheres.  

     

    that's right. Satan was cast out of heaven. And by the way, the Arabic verb used is the same exact one used to tell the Israelites to go back to Egypt if they're fed up with feeding on Mann/Salwa.

    the Arabic verb used in the Quran can mean to *go down*, but it also means to leave a good place/level for a worse one (hence the same verb was used with the Israelites when they complained about their food in Sinai).

    So how can we be sure, with the verb used not necessarily meaning to go down from above, how can we be sure that he was cast out of heaven? I'll show verses later.

    A googolplex is *precisely* as far from infinity as is the number 1.--Carl Sagan
  • Re: Hi from on the fence muslim
     Reply #125 - January 08, 2011, 05:03 AM

    @ MB

    Quote
    Consider number three (glance back at my last post to refresh your memory if you can’t recall). You contend that the reason why Satan will not repent is because he’s too bloated with pride. But if the animating goal of the devil is to convince the great mass of men that the Quran is a false document punctured with holes so wide through which one could drive a coach and three horses, if he wants to disprove its prophesy that he will swim in a lake of fire, all he needs to do is repent and be a Muslim again as he formally was. At a single stroke he could show the Quran to be fraudulent. If Iblis wants to invalidate the Quran, which is supposedly the all-consuming purpose of his life to which he devotes every waking hour, what remains to stop him from converting to Islam? Answer: Nothing.

     

    even *assuming* that Satan was given a chance at repentance, whenever he wanted, and he repented only to mislead people then that wouldn't be repentence and God knows what's in our hearts, not to mention the future too (as Aba pointed out)... anyway, poor satan wasn't even given the slightest chance at repentence (his only chance was to justify his disobedience and he blew it)...

    A googolplex is *precisely* as far from infinity as is the number 1.--Carl Sagan
  • Re: Hi from on the fence muslim
     Reply #126 - January 08, 2011, 10:25 AM

    Debunker! - Yay!! Hope you are OK, my friend Smiley
  • Re: Hi from on the fence muslim
     Reply #127 - January 08, 2011, 10:37 AM

    As for the 90 feet in the after life, and some person asked obnoxiously whether I believe in that shit.
    There are some matters that I believe on faith. It is not a stretch for me to believe that, if I believe that God created the universe, and all that exists, why would he not be able to resurrect us?


    Taking things on faith ends the conversation, because there is nothing that can't be explained / justified / contextualised by recourse to simple faith and belief, which transcends interrogation. Its a get out of jail free card in a debate, as much as a comfort to the believer in real life.

    What is obnoxious and true toxicity though is when those beliefs are part of an infrastructure that makes demands of people, that asserts a level of morality and 'rights' and interference in public and private lives, that priveliges the collective beliefs and faith over individual conscience.

    The belief and faith predicated on stories about angels, 90 feet in the afterlife, fire breathing donkeys that fly to heaven, jinns, shaitan, Adam and Eve can be harmless and benign when the believer is drained of any sense of righteousness. I think its possible for believers (of all religions) to be like this - I think millions are.

    But they are the ones who accept that their belief and faith in these things is the equal of and no better than the beliefs of jungle tribesmen in Papua New Guinea, who wear loin cloths, blow poison darts at monkeys, and think the world was formed out of the trunk of a tree. When a believer asserts moral primacy, or denigrates the faith in dragons and fairies in the mythology of others, let alone the moral fitness of those who disbelieve, then we get into the territories of delusion and an imperative arises to scrutinise and refute those beliefs and that faith.

    Please don't think I'm assuming you are in those territories (you may or many not be, depending on the litmus test of accepting the equivalency of your faith with that of the loin cloth wearing tribesmen in the jungle) - I'm speaking of the wider context of belief in myths and religious fantasy and faith and its relevancy to those who do not share it.





    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Hi from on the fence muslim
     Reply #128 - January 08, 2011, 12:05 PM

    Hassan! My first and only love!  far away hug

    btw, great work with AbuYunus! I mean it's really easy to help those who already want to get rid of their religion to finally let go of it, like it is obviously the case with our friend MAS here (he just wants to convince himself that he at least gave his faith a last chance) but people like poor Abu, he was a tough nut to crack! I mean when I first met him here and read some of his blog, and with all that enthusiasm for his faith, I didn't see this coming! But once you started to patiently work your magic with him, I was shocked to see that he was actually being sucked into the dark side! Cheesy You practically hypnotized him!

    anyway, I really missed you so much.    hugs

    A googolplex is *precisely* as far from infinity as is the number 1.--Carl Sagan
  • Re: Hi from on the fence muslim
     Reply #129 - January 08, 2011, 01:02 PM

    Hassan! My first and only love!  far away hug

    btw, great work with AbuYunus! I mean it's really easy to help those who already want to get rid of their religion to finally let go of it,

    Disagree - I think he has worked hard to keep it, and still calls himself a muslim despite a very unorthodox  (and I believe an untenable) position - so no, he certainly does not want to get rid of it

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Hi from on the fence muslim
     Reply #130 - January 08, 2011, 01:11 PM

    @Debunker:
    If you don't mind me asking.. how's life in your country given your unorthodox Islamic beliefs?  Do you discuss your beliefs (such as the disbelief in the miracles of Muhammad and all other prophets) with the Salafis there?

    "Many people would sooner die than think; In fact, they do so." -- Bertrand Russell

    Baloney Detection Kit
  • Re: Hi from on the fence muslim
     Reply #131 - January 08, 2011, 01:29 PM

    @ Islame

    He was ripened a long time ago until he reached the beginning of a chain-reaction leading to a definite apostasy... His staying here, after reaching that point, and interacting with other members only worked as a catalyst to hasten the inevitable outcome.

    Of course, ultimately, he himself (unintentionally) worked towards his own apostasy. It's almost poetic: He was the extremely excited Ex-Ex-Muslim who thought he finally figured a way to reconcile the Quranic God with his own *prelimiary* version of God (his blog). With his child-like enthusiasm, he came here and thought that his new exciting ideas would be received well, but through his interactions with forum members (mainly the ever charming Hassan), his evolving version of God became more and more at odds with the Quranic one, until he reached the point of no return.

    A googolplex is *precisely* as far from infinity as is the number 1.--Carl Sagan
  • Re: Hi from on the fence muslim
     Reply #132 - January 08, 2011, 01:39 PM

    @Debunker:
    If you don't mind me asking.. how's life in your country given your unorthodox Islamic beliefs?  Do you discuss your beliefs (such as the disbelief in the miracles of Muhammad and all other prophets) with the Salafis there?


    dude, even if I try to question the validity of the claims of the so-called scientific miracles of the Quran, this enrages people here, and raises their doubts regarding wheather i'm a closet apostate. Although to be honest, I still send emails from time to time, shyingly making fun of some Hadiths or Tafsir... those who are offended claim i don't understand Arabic (yes, they like to play this game even with me)... anyway, i quit discussing these things with family members... my mother now keeps reminding me that she always has me in her prayers lest I stray (as if she's begging me not to stray)... too much headache, i just stopped discussing anything (with my family at least).

    EDIT: I DO believe in all the miracles of all the prophets EXCEPT Muhammed. In other words, I believe only Muhammed didn't perform any miracles whatsoever, all the rest did perform miracles.

    A googolplex is *precisely* as far from infinity as is the number 1.--Carl Sagan
  • Re: Hi from on the fence muslim
     Reply #133 - January 08, 2011, 01:46 PM

    dude, even if I try to question the validity of the claims of the so-called scientific miracles of the Quran, this enrages people here, and raises their doubts regarding wheather i'm a closet apostate. Although to be honest, I still send emails from time to time, shyingly making fun of some Hadiths or Tafsir... those who are offended claim i don't understand Arabic (yes, they like to play this game even with me)... anyway, i quit discussing these things with family members... my mother now keeps reminding me that she always has me in her prayers lest I stray (as if she's begging me not to stray)... too much headache, i just stopped discussing anything (with my family at least).


     debunker  STOP THIS ANTI_ISLAMIC RUBBISH from the Place where you are in.. Start some business(EXPORT & IMPORT) with those you are in touch-with in west.

    And my good wishes to you.. happy new year..

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: Hi from on the fence muslim
     Reply #134 - January 08, 2011, 02:05 PM

    ..

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: Hi from on the fence muslim
     Reply #135 - January 08, 2011, 02:55 PM

    When I said that a person has to be sane. In Islam a person who has mental problems, or disabled, or a child, is not to be taken into account at all for anything that he/she does, they are exempt. I did not actually mean that you have to be insane to reject Islam. I just wanted to clear that misunderstanding.

    I didn't think that you were calling apostates insane.

    What you said reminded me of how an apostate was allowed to live if he/she were insane.


    I accept all of the fundamental beliefs, and I am not a reformer in the sense that I want to create my own laws whilst claiming to be a Muslim, nor do I want to water my religion down till the point where it holds no ground.

    On what issues do you draw the boundaries?


    In the Muslim world, we have two problems at the moment. Reformers, who want to water religion down completely to where it holds no ground and knock down Islam and rebuild it in their own image. Extremists who are not open to discussion and believe in their way or the highway, and that their version of Islam is true and any other interpretation other than their narrowminded one is wrong. The latter have very little comprehension and can't see beyond the literal, they are limited in thought and understanding.
    These are the two extremes. I accept the fundamentals that form the building structure of Islam, but what Islam leaves open for debate and dialogue I look at what past and present high calibre scholars have said, and see what makes the most sense to me.
    If there is no grounds for my opinion, or the it goes against what was revealed, then I discard my own opinion.

    I'd like to attribute a third. Masses of gullible Muslims, who don't realize what goes on, and couldn't care to.

    When you say 'holds no ground', do you mean power over society?

    Which 'high calibre scholars' are you an adherent of?

    "Life is not a matter of holding good cards, but of playing a poor hand well."
    - Robert Louis Stevenson
  • Re: Hi from on the fence muslim
     Reply #136 - January 08, 2011, 03:32 PM

    nah, it's alright. I'm a good Saudi citizen who thinks his government is the bestest in the entire world


     Cheesy

    Hey QI told me to tell you she still wants to have dirty, dirty Muslim-on-Christian sex with you.

    fuck you
  • Re: Hi from on the fence muslim
     Reply #137 - January 08, 2011, 04:42 PM

    EDIT: I DO believe in all the miracles of all the prophets EXCEPT Muhammed. In other words, I believe only Muhammed didn't perform any miracles whatsoever, all the rest did perform miracles.

    lol - you dont believe Muhammad split the moon in half?

    dude, even if I try to question the validity of the claims of the so-called scientific miracles of the Quran, this enrages people here, and raises their doubts regarding wheather i'm a closet apostate. Although to be honest, I still send emails from time to time, shyingly making fun of some Hadiths or Tafsir... those who are offended claim i don't understand Arabic (yes, they like to play this game even with me)... anyway, i quit discussing these things with family members... my mother now keeps reminding me that she always has me in her prayers lest I stray (as if she's begging me not to stray)... too much headache, i just stopped discussing anything (with my family at least).

    Looks like you've getting the same old crap we have to deal with, you might as well go the full hog  grin12 

    Btw is there anything that could make you change your mind.   Like for me a few levitating qurans with flipping pages Hogwart style, in other words what evidence/proof would it take for you believe the Quran is manmade?

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Hi from on the fence muslim
     Reply #138 - January 08, 2011, 05:58 PM

    @ Q

    Quote
    Hey QI told me to tell you she still wants to have dirty, dirty Muslim-on-Christian sex with you.

    Well, it’s too late for the both of us now… unless Marie’s willing to visit the middle east? Dubai, for example? lol.

    A googolplex is *precisely* as far from infinity as is the number 1.--Carl Sagan
  • Re: Hi from on the fence muslim
     Reply #139 - January 08, 2011, 06:03 PM

    @ Isalme

    Quote
    lol - you dont believe Muhammad split the moon in half?

    No. And I discussed this issue with you before, or was it someone else?

    Quote
    Btw is there anything that could make you change your mind.   Like for me a few levitating qurans with flipping pages Hogwart style, in other words what evidence/proof would it take for you believe the Quran is manmade?

    False historical accounts. For example, the lack of any evidence the Israelites lived in Egypt, for generations, is unsettling but not a proof of historically wrong Quranic accounts. The utter absence of any Byzantine records of the Battle of Tabuk, where, according to Quran, Muhammed subjugated the Northern Arab tribes (who were allies of the Byzantines and shared their religion), is also disturbing. But the absence of evidence is no evidence for absence (one could *speculate* many reasons why there’s no evidence, without anyone being able to disprove any of such speculations).

    I remember I watched two documentaries that were presented in such a way that would make it seem that the story of Adam&eve and Moses birth were stolen from pagan cultures.

    For example, a documentary used archeological evidence to show that the story of Adam&eve first originated somewhere in Ancient Iraq (way before the time of Abraham) in a decidedly pagan civilization. I remember I was troubled for many days after I watched it because the only explanation that I could think of is that the Quran is basing the creation story on a pagan myth. But then I realized that those archeological finds cannot *disprove* the Quranic claim that basically polytheism is born (and reborn) of monotheism, since the dawn of humanity. If we use this claim (which can’t be proven or disproven) then it’s easy to *speculate* that those pagan people were once monotheists and had prophets sent by God telling them the same story of Adam, Satan and the Garden and was still preserved despite polytheism taking over monotheism in that place. Of course, scientists are not compelled to *speculate*. They use Occam’s razor and put the issue to rest: Adam and Eve’s story is proven, according to archeological evidence, to have first appeared in a pagan civilization, way before the supposed time of Abraham.

    The other documentary that handled the birth of Moses was, I believe, a DELIBERATE attempt at lying. The documentary said that the birth story of Moses (the same EXACT details, except for the time and place) is the same story of the birth of the Assyrian king Sargon, who lived 700 years before Moses. I googled this information and to my horror everything turned out to be true. I frantically searched for more information, hoping there was some dispute regarding the date, but I found none, however, in my renewed search I found the missing piece that was needed to save my faith: the tablet on which the story of birth of Sargon dates back to 700 years after the birth of Moses. Again, throwing Occam’s razor away, all I had to do is to *speculate* that the (neo)Assyrians, who were the neighbors of the Israelites, are the ones who stole this birth story, and not the other way around, since the only physical evidence to the story (the tablet) cannot necessarily prove that the Israeilites stole the story from the Assyrians.

    A googolplex is *precisely* as far from infinity as is the number 1.--Carl Sagan
  • Re: Hi from on the fence muslim
     Reply #140 - January 08, 2011, 06:24 PM

    @ Isalme
    No. And I discussed this issue with you before, or was it someone else?

    Cant remember, but I was just joking anyway.  I mean cutting the moon in half is no small feat by any stretch of the imagination. 

    Quote
    False historical accounts. For example, the lack of any evidence the Israelites lived in Egypt, for generations, is unsettling but not a proof of historically wrong Quranic accounts. The utter absence of any Byzantine records of the Battle of Tabuk, where, according to Quran, Muhammed subjugated the Northern Arab tribes (who were allies of the Byzantines and shared their religion), is also disturbing. But the absence of evidence is no evidence for absence (one could *speculate* many reasons why there’s no evidence, without anyone being able to disprove any of such speculations).

    I remember I watched two documentaries that were presented in such a way that would make it seem that the story of Adam&eve and Moses birth were stolen from pagan cultures.

    For example, a documentary used archeological evidence to show that the story of Adam&eve first originated somewhere in Ancient Iraq (way before the time of Abraham) in a decidedly pagan civilization. I remember I was troubled for many days after I watched it because the only explanation that I could think of is that the Quran is basing the creation story on a pagan myth. But then I realized that those archeological finds cannot *disprove* the Quranic claim that basically polytheism is born (and reborn) of monotheism, since the dawn of humanity. If we use this claim (which can’t be proven or disproven) then it’s easy to *speculate* that those pagan people were once monotheists and had prophets sent by God telling them the same story of Adam, Satan and the Garden and was still preserved despite polytheism taking over monotheism in that place. Of course, scientists are not compelled to *speculate*. They use Occam’s razor and put the issue to rest: Adam and Eve’s story is proven, according to archeological evidence, to have first appeared in a pagan civilization, way before the supposed time of Abraham.

    The other documentary that handled the birth of Moses was, I believe, a DELIBERATE attempt at lying. The documentary said that the birth story of Moses (the same EXACT details, except for the time and place) is the same story of the birth of the Assyrian king Sargon, who lived 700 years before Moses. I googled this information and to my horror everything turned out to be true. I frantically searched for more information, hoping there was some dispute regarding the date, but I found none, however, in my renewed search I found the missing piece that was needed to save my faith: the tablet on which the story of birth of Sargon dates back to 700 years after the birth of Moses. Again, throwing Occam’s razor away, all I had to do is to *speculate* that the (neo)Assyrians, who were the neighbors of the Israelites, are the ones who stole this birth story, and not the other way around, since the only physical evidence to the story (the tablet) cannot necessarily prove that the Israeilites stole the story from the Assyrians.


    Yep, you've obviously given it a lot of carefully considered thought.  And the Quran does say the message was given before, so I dont think the polytheist Adam & Eve story proves very much.  In any case just because 2 lots of people believe in the same thing, it does not automatically mean one has robbed it off the other.

    Thats why I wonder if anything could be unearthed for you to stop believing, because the way I see it, there's always a way of spinning everything if somebody is not prepared to pay Occam razor principle a modicum of respect. 

    Once I realised there is a reasonable explanation for almost all the divinical claims of Muslims, Muhammed & the Quran, then Occam razor did the rest for me.

    So is there anything anyone could uncover, or prove in a certain way, or knowledge that can come to light that could lead to you changing your mind?

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Hi from on the fence muslim
     Reply #141 - January 08, 2011, 06:30 PM


    Debunker was just passing, but we've DRAGGED him back in  Afro

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Hi from on the fence muslim
     Reply #142 - January 08, 2011, 06:36 PM

    @Debunker:
    What do you think Allah will do to apostates like us?  I mean.. I genuinely lost my faith. I simply do not believe all that anymore.
    (Sorry if you have already answered this question many times before.  I haven't read your views on it.)

    "Many people would sooner die than think; In fact, they do so." -- Bertrand Russell

    Baloney Detection Kit
  • Re: Hi from on the fence muslim
     Reply #143 - January 08, 2011, 06:40 PM

    @ Q
    Well, it’s too late for the both of us now… unless Marie’s willing to visit the middle east? Dubai, for example? lol.




    fuck you
  • Re: Hi from on the fence muslim
     Reply #144 - January 08, 2011, 06:43 PM

    @ isalme


    Quote
    In any case just because 2 lots of people believe in the same thing, it does not automatically mean one has robbed it off the other.


    Moses' birth story: was born in a time of a king who killed male infants, his mother put him in a basket in a river, his sister watched him from afar, he was picked up by the wife of his enemy who decided to adopt him, his sister convinces them that her mother is a good wet nurse.

    Sargon's birth story: same exact one.

    at this level of details, someone must have stolen from the other.
     
    Quote
    So is there anything anyone could uncover, or prove in a certain way, or knowledge that can come to light that could lead to you changing your mind?


    well, other than what i already explained i can't think of anything else

    A googolplex is *precisely* as far from infinity as is the number 1.--Carl Sagan
  • Re: Hi from on the fence muslim
     Reply #145 - January 08, 2011, 06:43 PM

    Hassan! My first and only love!  far away hug

    btw, great work with AbuYunus! I mean it's really easy to help those who already want to get rid of their religion to finally let go of it, like it is obviously the case with our friend MAS here (he just wants to convince himself that he at least gave his faith a last chance) but people like poor Abu, he was a tough nut to crack! I mean when I first met him here and read some of his blog, and with all that enthusiasm for his faith, I didn't see this coming! But once you started to patiently work your magic with him, I was shocked to see that he was actually being sucked into the dark side! Cheesy You practically hypnotized him!

    anyway, I really missed you so much.    hugs


    lol... as always, you credit me with too much.

    Truly great to see you again, my friend!  far away hug
  • Re: Hi from on the fence muslim
     Reply #146 - January 08, 2011, 06:44 PM



    Marie is a boy?!!

    A googolplex is *precisely* as far from infinity as is the number 1.--Carl Sagan
  • Re: Hi from on the fence muslim
     Reply #147 - January 08, 2011, 06:45 PM

    No but she owns a strap-on

    fuck you
  • Re: Hi from on the fence muslim
     Reply #148 - January 08, 2011, 06:47 PM

    Debunker was just passing, but we've DRAGGED him back in  Afro


    i guess the best thing is to take a peek during weekends, but with this place you can't be sure how long you'd stay, once you step back in. I guess the system of self-banning is true a savior.

    A googolplex is *precisely* as far from infinity as is the number 1.--Carl Sagan
  • Re: Hi from on the fence muslim
     Reply #149 - January 08, 2011, 06:48 PM

    No but she owns a strap-on


    LOOOOOOOL!

    A googolplex is *precisely* as far from infinity as is the number 1.--Carl Sagan
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