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 Topic: Jack Straw says some UK Pakistani men see white girls as "easy meat" for sex

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  • Re: Jack Straw says some UK Pakistani men see white girls as "easy meat" for sex
     Reply #150 - January 13, 2011, 03:03 PM
    Quote from: billy
    IsLame, I think its mostly to do with extreme insularity mixed with a warped, misogynistic and tribal minded value system inside a closed set of networks.


    So the roots of this "value system" lie in the pre-Islamic "tribal" beliefs and practices of present day Pakistan?
    The mosque: the most epic display of collective douchbaggery, arrogance and delusion
  • Re: Jack Straw says some UK Pakistani men see white girls as "easy meat" for sex
     Reply #151 - January 13, 2011, 03:06 PM
    Quote from: billy on January 12, 2011, 10:58 PM
    It could be happening elsewhere Maya we don't know for sure. All the cases except one in Derby have been centred in the north, Preston, Oldham, Rochdale, Blackburn, over into Yorkshire too. I'm just going on the evidence that there is, and on the presumption that if it was happening elsewhere, we would know about it for the same reason that people knew it was happening in the north for years and years before it was addressed. The first I personally came across it was in 2004 with the Channel 4 documentary, by all accounts its been happening since long back.


    Hmmm, puzzling then in that it's also been found in Derby.   I'm in the Midlands, and there's nothing like that here in Stoke as far as I'm aware.  Not sure what's so different about northern mill-towns than anywhere in the Midlands.  Huh?

    Quote from: sojournerlumus on January 13, 2011, 02:31 PM
    It's happening in Holland and perhaps Germany too. I've lost the link; I'll post it if I find it.
    Muslim men again and vulnerable girls being groomed for abuse.  


    Thanks, would be interesting to find out if it's more widespread and if the perpetrators are from various backgrounds or just concentrated on one.  
    "The greatest general is not the one who can take the most cities or spill the most blood. The greatest general is the one who can take Heaven and Earth without waging the battle." ~ Sun Tzu

  • Re: Jack Straw says some UK Pakistani men see white girls as "easy meat" for sex
     Reply #152 - January 13, 2011, 03:10 PM
    What were your feelings when you learned your daughter had "reverted" to Islam maya?
    The mosque: the most epic display of collective douchbaggery, arrogance and delusion
  • Re: Jack Straw says some UK Pakistani men see white girls as "easy meat" for sex
     Reply #153 - January 13, 2011, 03:12 PM
    Quote from: billy on January 13, 2011, 02:58 PM
    IsLame, I think its mostly to do with extreme insularity mixed with a warped, misogynistic and tribal minded value system inside a closed set of networks.

    Prior to Islam, Pakistani culture was pretty similar to Indian culture - in fact they were polytheists too.  And Indians in the UK have a very low crime rate.

    In fact the culture still is the same once you filter out the green.  They belong to the same ethnic group.  They are the same.

    Its clear to me the problem is Islam.
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  • Re: Jack Straw says some UK Pakistani men see white girls as "easy meat" for sex
     Reply #154 - January 13, 2011, 03:22 PM
    Quote from: DH on January 13, 2011, 03:10 PM
    What were your feelings when you learned your daughter had "reverted" to Islam maya?


    I expected it DH in view of her marriage to a muslim, done to please him and his family, in name only.  She's no muslim really.  Wink
    "The greatest general is not the one who can take the most cities or spill the most blood. The greatest general is the one who can take Heaven and Earth without waging the battle." ~ Sun Tzu

  • Re: Jack Straw says some UK Pakistani men see white girls as "easy meat" for sex
     Reply #155 - January 13, 2011, 03:40 PM
    Quote from: Q-Man on January 13, 2011, 02:39 PM
    (Clicky for piccy!)

    Yes, because that's exactly what's going on here.  Discussing 'race'- or culture-related statistics and patterns = white supremacy.

    Facts can be so fucking racist.
    Against the ruin of the world, there
    is only one defense: the creative act.

    -- Kenneth Rexroth
  • Re: Jack Straw says some UK Pakistani men see white girls as "easy meat" for sex
     Reply #156 - January 13, 2011, 04:59 PM
    Quote from: IsLame on January 13, 2011, 03:12 PM
    Its clear to me the problem is Islam.


    The same question arises though as to why it takes place in very specific localities and not elsewhere.

    Because its only a certain sub-set of individuals from a certain background who do this. The attitudes towards 'the other' mixed with a negative view of women can de-humanise and make it easier for 'kuffar' girls to be abused - they are not seen as fully human. But most Muslims or Pakistanis don't think that way let alone act on it. What are the missing ingredients that activates that value assumption into actively abusing dehumanised girls?

    Lets say one possibility that its the extreme insularity that in particular Mirpuri culture inculcates - high cousin-marriage, heightened suspicion of the 'outsider', all of these fuse with those particular assumptions about non Muslims and non Muslim women. And Mirpuris do form the large part of the Pakistani community in those towns, if I'm not mistaken. It would help if we had more information on the ethnic, regional background of the majority of the convicted. In fact, hopefully the Home Office is doing exactly that kind of research as we speak.

    But then you also need a network of people who share your criminality, and a confidence without regard to the law. Basically, these are criminals with the arrogance to continue it, feeling safe because they can use intimidation, and know that anyone else involved observes a code of silence. This has been going on for at least a decade, its only now that there seems to be a concerted effort to attack it and investigate and prosecute. If they got away with it, with a background assumption that because it was an issue people were reluctant to tackle head on because of fear of the BNP, and so on, it meant those that perpetrated it carried on regardless.
    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Jack Straw says some UK Pakistani men see white girls as "easy meat" for sex
     Reply #157 - January 13, 2011, 05:21 PM
    Quote from: billy on January 13, 2011, 04:59 PM
    The same question arises though as to why it takes place in very specific localities and not elsewhere.

    My argument is this could quite easily occur within a bangladeshi community, somali community etc.  Its wherever there is exaggerated Islamification - a place where they are free to build there own insular ghettos free from external influences.
    Currently the Pakistani community probably holds the strongest Islamic identity because thats why it was formed & it has large enough numbers to sustain itself in this loop of paranoid scizophrenia.

    Quote
    Lets say one possibility that its the extreme insularity that in particular Mirpuri culture inculcates

    Within the Pakistani community there are higher & lower levels of education.  Those that came from rural Pakistan vs those that came from the city.  Again Islamic influence will be greater or lower depending on the number of books they have read outside of Islam.

    Quote
    regional background of the majority of the convicted

    In London things are different because there may be more education, variance of cultures, less poverty, more jobs etc.

    Quote
    In fact, hopefully the Home Office is doing exactly that kind of research as we speak.

    If they need to deal with the problem, they should concentrate on Islam (UK) plc
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  • Re: Jack Straw says some UK Pakistani men see white girls as "easy meat" for sex
     Reply #158 - January 13, 2011, 05:37 PM
    Quote
    Currently the Pakistani community probably holds the strongest Islamic identity because thats why it was formed & it has large enough numbers to sustain itself in this loop of paranoid scizophrenia


    But only in certain limited places, and only in a small sub-section of people outside society's value systems. This is a perfect storm of various factors amongst a criminal sub-culture in a certain space and time. That has never really been fully tackled by agencies head on before.
    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Jack Straw says some UK Pakistani men see white girls as "easy meat" for sex
     Reply #159 - January 13, 2011, 05:40 PM
    Quote
    In London things are different because there may be more education, variance of cultures, less poverty, more jobs etc.


    Yes, this is definitely true.

    I wonder if this is one reason why it hasn't happened in Birmingham or Manchester proper (Rusholme). Because despite Birmingham having Pakistani Muslim ghettoes, there is at least a big city integration-ary pressure at play in the bigger cities. Whereas in an outlying small town like say Dudley or Walsall, maybe some of the conditions like in the smaller milltowns prevail. Same with Machester. Its those small satellite towns that are affected, not the big city suburbs with large Pakistani communities. Who knows, just speculating.


    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Jack Straw says some UK Pakistani men see white girls as "easy meat" for sex
     Reply #160 - January 13, 2011, 05:44 PM
    What i think everyone is forgetting is that these guys gave the girls alcohol and drugs, and probably took it themselves, now Idk of what pakistani or 'islamic' culture approves of such actions. They're just criminals who deserve to be punished. Why is it people always try to link it to culture or Islam when the criminal is a muslim?
  • Re: Jack Straw says some UK Pakistani men see white girls as "easy meat" for sex
     Reply #161 - January 13, 2011, 08:06 PM
    Quote from: Aphrodite on January 13, 2011, 05:44 PM
    What i think everyone is forgetting is that these guys gave the girls alcohol and drugs, and probably took it themselves, now Idk of what pakistani or 'islamic' culture approves of such actions. They're just criminals who deserve to be punished. Why is it people always try to link it to culture or Islam when the criminal is a muslim?


    x2
    I agree.
    They are criminals and I don't think this has anything to do with Islam.
    Blind faith is an ironic gift to return to the Creator of human intelligence

  • Re: Jack Straw says some UK Pakistani men see white girls as "easy meat" for sex
     Reply #162 - January 13, 2011, 10:21 PM
    Wow someone actually agrees with me without calling me anything?  Smiley
  • Re: Jack Straw says some UK Pakistani men see white girls as "easy meat" for sex
     Reply #163 - January 13, 2011, 10:29 PM
    it's your lucky day sister  Tongue
    ''we are morally and philisophically in the best position to win the league'' - Arsene Wenger
  • Re: Jack Straw says some UK Pakistani men see white girls as "easy meat" for sex
     Reply #164 - January 13, 2011, 10:45 PM
    Quote from: Aphrodite on January 13, 2011, 10:21 PM
    Wow someone actually agrees with me without calling me anything?  Smiley


    Why would I call you something? Did I miss something .... again
    When your right, you are right.  Wink
    Blind faith is an ironic gift to return to the Creator of human intelligence

  • Re: Jack Straw says some UK Pakistani men see white girls as "easy meat" for sex
     Reply #165 - January 13, 2011, 10:56 PM
    She wasn't talking about you with the insult reference. Wink
    fuck you
  • Re: Jack Straw says some UK Pakistani men see white girls as "easy meat" for sex
     Reply #166 - January 13, 2011, 11:42 PM
    Quote from: Aphrodite on January 13, 2011, 05:44 PM
    What i think everyone is forgetting is that these guys gave the girls alcohol and drugs, and probably took it themselves, now Idk of what pakistani or 'islamic' culture approves of such actions. They're just criminals who deserve to be punished. Why is it people always try to link it to culture or Islam when the criminal is a muslim?


    Fair enough! But by the same token why do Muslims always link western culture to the allegedly humongous number of rapes,wife beating cases,drunken punks,fornicators and other things which the Muslims feel so righteous about,when the culture doesn't explicitly approve of these things.They are just deviants and misfits who abuse the freedom.Tarring the entire culture because of these people is not fair. People are responsible for the excesses not the culture!

    Quote from: Loki on January 13, 2011, 08:06 PM
    x2
    I agree.
    They are criminals and I don't think this has anything to do with Islam.




     So in effect you are saying the perfect true religion can have 'imperfect ' followers despite all the good teachings of the religion and the fear of roasting in jahnum[hell]?
    If the answer is yes then couldn't any other religion on earth claim likewise,so how can Islam claim to be the one and only and go to town with it?
    If your answer is NO, obviously the other side wins!


    The World is my country, all mankind are my brethren, and to do good is my religion.
                                   Thomas Paine

    Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored !- Aldous Huxley
  • Re: Jack Straw says some UK Pakistani men see white girls as "easy meat" for sex
     Reply #167 - January 14, 2011, 05:31 AM
    Quote from: IsLame
    Within the Pakistani community there are higher & lower levels of education.  Those that came from rural Pakistan vs those that came from the city.  Again Islamic influence will be greater or lower depending on the number of books they have read outside of Islam.


    Given the ease with which so many well educated erstwhile Muslim "moderates" have been "radicalized" simply by being educated in the requirements of their professed faith I don't think a lack of NON-Islamic education is a factor in all this.
    The mosque: the most epic display of collective douchbaggery, arrogance and delusion
  • Re: Jack Straw says some UK Pakistani men see white girls as "easy meat" for sex
     Reply #168 - January 14, 2011, 05:42 AM
    Quote from: Aphrodite
    What i think everyone is forgetting is that these guys gave the girls alcohol and drugs, and probably took it themselves,


    Have you come across anything that suggests they did take drugs?

    Quote
    now Idk of what pakistani or 'islamic' culture approves of such actions. They're just criminals who deserve to be punished. Why is it people always try to link it to culture or Islam when the criminal is a muslim?


    Islam instills a general attitude of contempt towards non-Muslims and women which is transmitted culturally from one Muslim generation to the next. These negative attitudes to "outgroupers" and women is bound to still influence the behavior of members of the various Muslim communities even if their individual adherence to Islam has lapsed by, for instance, taking drugs or boozing.
    The mosque: the most epic display of collective douchbaggery, arrogance and delusion
  • Re: Jack Straw says some UK Pakistani men see white girls as "easy meat" for sex
     Reply #169 - January 14, 2011, 11:44 AM
    Quote from: Aphrodite on January 13, 2011, 05:44 PM
    What i think everyone is forgetting is that these guys gave the girls alcohol and drugs, and probably took it themselves, now Idk of what pakistani or 'islamic' culture approves of such actions. They're just criminals who deserve to be punished. Why is it people always try to link it to culture or Islam when the criminal is a muslim?


    I don't get the point about the perpetrators themselves taking alcohol and drugs themselves and how that is relevant. The groomers take children, get them hooked on drugs and alcohol to make their rape easier and make them dependent on them emotionally and physically. To put it simply, less physical resistance for them to be molested and abused. So, the groomers use drink and drugs recreationally, for fun, because they want to. They then use it as a tool of rape on the children. Completely different things.

    People don't always link crimes to culture or Islam when the criminal is a Muslim. Thats a strawman argument, and a victimhood plea.  The nature of this crime points to many different factors being at play, some of which are related to the intersection of a perverse value system that is in some senses linked to religious attitude, as well as an insular, tribal, binary sensibility with roots in a transplanted rural Pakistani culture. As many here have suggested, there are manifold things happening here, and many things that point to how its not simply about Islam, but Islamic attitudes interwoven with a cultural value system in a small sub-section of men in certain self-reinforcing networks in some towns in the north undoubtedly is an ingredient in the mix, even if the degree can be argued.



    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Jack Straw says some UK Pakistani men see white girls as "easy meat" for sex
     Reply #170 - January 14, 2011, 11:52 AM
    Quote from: IsLame on January 13, 2011, 02:48 PM
    But they are Morroccans not Pakistanis.  

    LIke I said earlier, I believe this is not a directly Pakistani related issue, not even a directly Islam related issue as it does not tell anywhere to go around randomly trading young kaffir girls (although there is a hadith context for prisoners of war as war booty.)  

    I believe its a traditional Islam issue, and communities that were founded on Islam, with little external influence, are likely to be affected to a greater extent.

    Yes, Pakistan culture is in a mess at the moment but this can be attributable to Islam too.  Note that Pakistan had the earliest known civilisation in the Indus Valley prior to Islam.

    Sorry Islame, I did say Muslim and not Pakistani.  I believe Kurds are involved in one place. I'll have to find the link again.
    Religion is ignorance giftwrapped in lyricism.
  • Re: Jack Straw says some UK Pakistani men see white girls as "easy meat" for sex
     Reply #171 - January 14, 2011, 12:00 PM
    Quote from: billy on January 14, 2011, 11:44 AM
    I don't get the point about the perpetrators themselves taking alcohol and drugs themselves and how that is relevant. The groomers take children, get them hooked on drugs and alcohol to make their rape easier and make them dependent on them emotionally and physically. To put it simply, less physical resistance for them to be molested and abused. So, the groomers use drink and drugs recreationally, for fun, because they want to. They then use it as a tool of rape on the children. Completely different things.

    People don't always link crimes to culture or Islam when the criminal is a Muslim. Thats a strawman argument, and a victimhood plea.  The nature of this crime points to many different factors being at play, some of which are related to the intersection of a perverse value system that is in some senses linked to religious attitude, as well as an insular, tribal, binary sensibility with roots in a transplanted rural Pakistani culture. As many here have suggested, there are manifold things happening here, and many things that point to how its not simply about Islam, but Islamic attitudes interwoven with a cultural value system in a small sub-section of men in certain self-reinforcing networks in some towns in the north undoubtedly is an ingredient in the mix, even if the degree can be argued.





    Good summation, Billy. And I think you must get Post of the Month for 'binary sensibility' alone. I like it, fantastic phrase.
    Religion is ignorance giftwrapped in lyricism.
  • Re: Jack Straw says some UK Pakistani men see white girls as "easy meat" for sex
     Reply #172 - January 14, 2011, 01:55 PM
    @BillyTheWilly

    Here's the take of a Muslim female writer whose work I used to follow when I lived in the British isles, Yasmin Alibhai Brown. I think she might have been propositioned once by Islame. She laughed.

    Quote
    The unrepentant British Pakistani gang leaders who violated young girls in Derby have been rightly reviled and given indefinite sentences. Their victims were almost all white. There it might have ended but for Jack Straw, who rekindled passions on all sides when he said that such Pakistani men thought these females were easy meat who deserved no respect or consideration ( I paraphrase). No solid evidence is provided by Straw to back these assertions. In fact, when he was Home Secretary he could have funded research on the matter, but failed to.

    Still, even a man used to controversies must be nonplussed by the reaction to his comments. His words were thrown on to blazing pyres by fulminating leftie liberals, feminists, Muslims, Pakistanis, anti-racists and influential individuals who think of themselves as gravely responsible. It was unacceptable, they said, to racialise or ethnicise a particular crime; some even declared that any discussion of cultural factors was dangerous and racist.
    Related articles

    Being avowedly a leftie liberal, anti-racist, feminist, Muslim, part-Pakistani, and yes, a very responsible person, I should be in the circle with these objectors - particularly as I can't stand the Rt Hon MP for Blackburn, his devious, shady politicking and moral expediency. However, just as when he criticised the full veil, I cannot condemn his views. How can I? Just before Christmas, I too wrote about these rapists and the anti-white cultural prejudices in some of their communities and families. It was a hard column to write, as is this one. Easier to pick your way barefoot through a dark park littered with broken glass. You need to think about every line, its effect, and know that you will step on the shard that will cut you, however carefully you tread.


    Read the whole thing here:

    http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/yasmin-alibhai-brown/yasmin-alibhai-brown-jack-straw-is-right-to-ask-hard-questions-about-asian-men-2180318.html
  • Re: Jack Straw says some UK Pakistani men see white girls as "easy meat" for sex
     Reply #173 - January 14, 2011, 02:16 PM

    I read it already MAB, cheers for thinking to bring it to my attention though  Afro
    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Jack Straw says some UK Pakistani men see white girls as "easy meat" for sex
     Reply #174 - January 14, 2011, 02:20 PM
    Quote from: sojournerlumus on January 14, 2011, 11:52 AM
    Sorry Islame, I did say Muslim and not Pakistani. 

    I know you did, but earlier remarks were made about it being Pakistani related.  Your example helps my argument that its an issue outside of Pakistanis & comes banging firmly on the doors of Islam.  

    Its just so happens that the Pakistani community in the UK represents the largest Islamic community, in Germany & France they have a different large group of Muslim immigrants who have a greater propensity of carrying out the same crime.  

    The common denominator here is not defined by race, but by being

    a) a large group
    b) uneducated immigrants
    c) perhaps Islam

    And I am yet to be convinced about the role of Islam here but perhaps could see a loose correlation.  This is because I wonder if gypsies, Romanians, Blacks, Polish immigrants in large enough numbers would have the same effect.  

    Until we have statistics to this effect then for now I am happy just to assume its just general problem with large groups of uneducated immigrants, with perhaps an added bias if they also happen to be Muslim (because its an additional dividing affect).
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  • Re: Jack Straw says some UK Pakistani men see white girls as "easy meat" for sex
     Reply #175 - January 14, 2011, 02:49 PM
    I have a sincere qeustion.
    Is it true, that they cannot kill a muslimah if she is a virgin,
    hence raping her before her execution? 

    And Q, Im sorry if I made you angry, I still have issues on some things  Cry
    When one door of happiness closes, another opens; but often we look so long at the closed door that we do not see the one which has been opened for us.
    Helen Keller
  • Re: Jack Straw says some UK Pakistani men see white girls as "easy meat" for sex
     Reply #176 - January 14, 2011, 02:59 PM
    Quote from: IsLame on January 14, 2011, 02:20 PM
    I know you did, but earlier remarks were made about it being Pakistani related.  Your example helps my argument that its an issue outside of Pakistanis & comes banging firmly on the doors of Islam.  

    Its just so happens that the Pakistani community in the UK represents the largest Islamic community, in Germany & France they have a different large group of Muslim immigrants who have a greater propensity of carrying out the same crime.  

    The common denominator here is not defined by race, but by being

    a) a large group
    b) uneducated immigrants
    c) perhaps Islam

    And I am yet to be convinced about the role of Islam here but perhaps could see a loose correlation.  This is because I wonder if gypsies, Romanians, Blacks, Polish immigrants in large enough numbers would have the same effect.  

    Until we have statistics to this effect then for now I am happy just to assume its just general problem with large groups of uneducated immigrants, with perhaps an added bias if they also happen to be Muslim (because its an additional dividing affect).

    Har Ha Ha Har. Is an estimated, at it's peak, a million Polish legal+illegal immigrant workers a big enough sample? But I agree with you, proper research needs to be carried out urgently.
    Religion is ignorance giftwrapped in lyricism.
  • Re: Jack Straw says some UK Pakistani men see white girls as "easy meat" for sex
     Reply #177 - January 14, 2011, 03:06 PM
    Quote from: IsLame on January 13, 2011, 03:12 PM
    Prior to Islam, Pakistani culture was pretty similar to Indian culture - in fact they were polytheists too.  And Indians in the UK have a very low crime rate.

    In fact the culture still is the same once you filter out the green.  They belong to the same ethnic group.  They are the same.

    Its clear to me the problem is Islam.

    Don't forget the (so called) honour and dowry killings and maimings in Hindu societies. It all points to an extra vicious kind of Misogyny emanating from the Sub-continent.
    Religion is ignorance giftwrapped in lyricism.
  • Re: Jack Straw says some UK Pakistani men see white girls as "easy meat" for sex
     Reply #178 - January 14, 2011, 03:07 PM
    Quote from: sojournerlumus on January 14, 2011, 02:59 PM
    But I agree with you, proper research needs to be carried out urgently.

    Sounds like you have already made your mind up down

    Quote from: sojournerlumus on January 14, 2011, 02:59 PM
    Har Ha Ha Har. Is an estimated, at it's peak, a million Polish legal+illegal immigrant workers a big enough sample?

    We need to compare like with like or you are likely to draw incorrect inferences.  The problem did not happen with first generation pakistani immigrants either.  Probably because, like the Poles, the first generation were too busy working to care.
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  • Re: Jack Straw says some UK Pakistani men see white girls as "easy meat" for sex
     Reply #179 - January 14, 2011, 03:12 PM
    @MAB
    Thanks for the article.

    Quote from: Loki on January 13, 2011, 10:45 PM
    When your right, you are right.  Wink

    True that. Except that Aphrodite might well be in the wrong here.

    Loki, I suppose you have at least read all the arguments presented here in the last 7 pages before you arrived at your conclusion?


    "But I still say we need to expose and discuss more openly the underpinning values of the Asian criminal rings in many of our cities. If we don't, the evil will grow. Fear of racism should no longer be the veil covering up hard truths. What the Derby gang did has planted and raised more racism – possibly even among good, benign people – than my words ever could. I am sure recruitment to extremist parties has gone up too. Prominent anti-racists know that, but will not openly say so.

    The criminals feel they did no wrong. These girls to them are trash, asking to be wasted – unlike their own women, who must be kept from the disorderly world out there.The whore and the virgin are both feared and severely controlled and abused.  A 2005 study in the Netherlands of Muslim males found the same bifurcation, and identified deep sexism as responsible for both.

    The conversations can be heard every day around dining tables and on streets; they are embedded in thought and language. I once interviewed the mother of a man who had been convicted of repeatedly raping his young wife, who came from a rural village in Pakistan. The head of the nursery school the couple's child attended had helped the victim report what was happening. In Urdu, the mother hissed: "How lucky was she to get my son? The dirty, ungrateful bitch – went to a white woman to complain. They sleep with everybody. She just didn't know how to make him happy. We have thrown her out. She can go on the streets like those whites now."

    I have been writing about these culturally- sanctioned injustices for two decades, and have interviewed countless people.I will not melt the misdemeanours into generalities, and do not accept that ethnicity and sexual abuse cannot and should not ever be linked.

    Some years back, a similar furore was raised over the Sierra Leonean journalist Sorious Samura, who made a TV documentary on the gang rape of young girls in British cities. Censured by the usual slate of apologists, he accepted that the attacks were carried out by men of all backgrounds, but pointed out that a high proportion were black or mixed-race. "As a black man as well as a journalist, I wanted to know what lay behind such attacks, the profoundly disturbing attitudes to females."
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