A very late introduction.

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A very late introduction.
OP - January 16, 2011, 09:50 AM

Hello everyone,

I know this is very late, but better late than never. So, here it goes...I am an atheist (ex-muslim) from Pakistan. Well, I have been an atheist for about 3ish years now. I first started doubting when I got into astronomy and science. Once I learned how to think critically mysticism seemed to breakdown.

Breaking out of religion was hard for me, not that I was very religious, but the notion of not having god was very strange -- how could there be no god? I was quite distressed during that time. I was in doubt for quite some time, but as I got more into science I started to realise how grand and amazing the universe really is. I learned the physics and fundamental the workings of the universe. I found out that the Quran is an outdated book written by a desert bandit who had no knowledge of science or how the universe really is.Then I found out more stuff about Islam, things like Aisha's age, massacre of the Banu Qurayza tribe and the geocentric view of the Quran to name a few. That's really it, I guess. All of that combined helped me to break out of Islam.

In 2008, my parents found out about my apostasy. When my father found out he said, "you're eligible to be murdered" and also said that I either revert back to Islam or he's going to kick me out of the house "one bad apple spoils the bunch", he said. He called my grandmother over and said that he was disowning me. She said "he's just possessed by the devil" I couldn't help but laugh right in front of her. I told my father "you can't force me to believe in unicorns" and left the house before the deadline I was given. They came looking for me later that day and took me back home. Since then, my relation with my family has been rather bitter, and we try not to talk about religious matters. I realised on that day that religion truly harden hearts and enslaves minds. Most of my close family knows about my apostasy. I am quite open about my atheism and criticisms of Islam, but due to recent events I've decided to keep quiet, but I won't really hesitate to criticise it if pushed too far. I am not afraid to die, but dying over such a trivial issue like calling might mo a child molester seems foolish to me. My criticisms have made my sister hate me, but it also made my brother sceptical about religion. He's an agnostic now.

I've been studying astronomy and cosmology for a while and I love it. I joined this forum to help and contribute in the science section of the site. I wanted to meet like-minded people and so far it's been great. I've met very nice people here -- hi guys -- and I hope to meet more.
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Re: A very late introduction.
Reply #1 - January 16, 2011, 10:05 AM

Thanks for posting that, its good to see that I'm not the only ex muslim still living in Pakistan here .

Quote from: J. on January 16, 2011, 09:50 AM
In 2008, my parents found out about my apostasy. When my father found out he said, "you're eligible to be murdered" and also said that I either revert back to Islam or he's going to kick me out of the house "one bad apple spoils the bunch", he said. He called my grandmother over and said that he was disowning me. She said "he's just possessed by the devil" I couldn't help but laugh right in front of her. I told my father "you can't force me to believe in unicorns" and left the house before the deadline I was given. They came looking for me later that day and took me back home.

You have some guts for doing that. You must've been only 17-18 at that time? Were you already financially independent?

Have you been living in Pakistan all your life or have you been overseas?

& What are your future plants?

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Re: A very late introduction.
Reply #2 - January 16, 2011, 10:14 AM

Welcome J - thanks for sharing
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Re: A very late introduction.
Reply #3 - January 16, 2011, 10:15 AM

Hey J! Massive round of applause for not only freeing your mind also but having the conviction to come out to your family . At only 19 you've got your life ahead of you to see the universe in all it's splendour without the blinding blinkers of religion. It sounds like you may have made the passage for your brother a whole lot easier too...I can't think of a better gift to give a loved one. As for others, you never do know. Anger and hostility can hide a range of thoughts and feelings, and for some around you it may be that you've facilitated a new found uncertainty that's given rise to internal conflicts and frustrations. These too can be the first steps toward a more critical, realistic view of life and the universe. What a lovely intro message to wake up to on a Sunday morning!

So are you living in Pakistan now, or did your family migrate elsewhere? And what your immediate plans for life...have you considered going to university to continue your passion for science? I just so happened to look for an astronomy society near me recently, but sadly could not find one...maybe when you feel confident or have found some like minded folk in your locality, you could start one up and spread the knowledge?

Take care.
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Re: A very late introduction.
Reply #4 - January 16, 2011, 10:18 AM

Welcome to the forum, J. Thanks for sharing your story.

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Re: A very late introduction.
Reply #5 - January 16, 2011, 10:21 AM

Quote from: donatelo on January 16, 2011, 10:05 AM
Thanks for posting that, its good to see that I'm not the only ex muslim still living in Pakistan here .

Yeah, I thought I was the only one, too. But I know there are quite few rational people here in Pakistan.

Quote from: donatelo on January 16, 2011, 10:05 AM
You have some guts for doing that. You must've been only 17-18 at that time? Were you already financially independent?

Yes, I was 17 back then. I wasn't financially independent, I didn't even have any money or a place to live. But whatever I was going to do, I decided that I wasn't going to live with people who refused to accept me for who I am.
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Re: A very late introduction.
Reply #6 - January 16, 2011, 10:27 AM

I hope you stay safe, especially if your extended family (uncles, aunts, cousins, etc) know about you being an open atheist. If you get kicked out again I might be able to let you camp out at my flat in lahore .

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Re: A very late introduction.
Reply #7 - January 16, 2011, 10:29 AM

Quote from: chris on January 16, 2011, 10:15 AM
Maybe when you feel confident or have found some like minded folk in your locality, you could start one up and spread the knowledge?

I've tried doing that, but I didn't get a good response. I get as much people as I can to look up, that's all it takes to fall in love with astronomy. Seeing a random bright object in the sky can evoke a sense of wonder in some people.
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Re: A very late introduction.
Reply #8 - January 16, 2011, 10:40 AM

Welcome to the forum, J

An interesting Story and i admire your courage for opening up your beliefs to your parents. we would appreciate your contribution on Science

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Re: A very late introduction.
Reply #9 - January 16, 2011, 10:46 AM

Quote from: donatelo on January 16, 2011, 10:27 AM
I hope you stay safe, especially if your extended family (uncles, aunts, cousins, etc) know about you being an open atheist. If you get kicked out again I might be able to let you camp out at my flat in lahore .

I feel safer where I am than I would living anywhere in Punjab. I never really worried about my safety until the recent assassination of Salman Taseer. It made me realise how serious and grim things are here.

I've lived in Islamabad, and I found that people are very conservative compared to Karachi, but thanks for the offer
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Re: A very late introduction.
Reply #10 - January 16, 2011, 10:52 AM

Well, you won't be telling the neighbors about your apostasy, would you?? Otherwise we'd both get killed!

You're right though, things are definitely more conservative in Punjab than in Karachi. But then we have a cleaner environment / less pollution / less target killings than Karachi

I see I was right about my guess in PM about Salman Taseer's assassination being the event that caused you to be less vocal, as it has done for me.

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Re: A very late introduction.
Reply #11 - January 16, 2011, 10:59 AM

Quote from: J. on January 16, 2011, 10:46 AM
I feel safer where I am than I would living anywhere in Punjab. I never really worried about my safety until the recent assassination of Salman Taseer. It made me realise how serious and grim things are here.

That makes you sound like you haven't been living in Pakistan. Did that really come as a shock/surprise to you?

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Re: A very late introduction.
Reply #12 - January 16, 2011, 11:36 AM

WELCOME

Quote
Yeah, I thought I was the only one, too. But I know there are quite few rational people here in Pakistan.

That's very encouraging indeed!

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Re: A very late introduction.
Reply #13 - January 16, 2011, 11:54 AM

that was beautiful J. . I want to have ur braveheart. But each time I start talking logic, they would give me the look and I would stop. But it's amazing ur doing this in PAKISTAN :O though I recommend u to not go all wacko.
Wow it's like we get a new guy every damn day. I'm a newbie too btw. Just 1 month and a day today.

<AliIsAli>: in ur sharia law, am i to be killed???
<ghutlu>: Yes sure sure u should 4 firstly Being Ex muslim
<ghutlu>: for leaving ISLAM
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<ghutlu>: yes surely
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Re: A very late introduction.
Reply #14 - January 16, 2011, 03:03 PM

Quote from: donatelo on January 16, 2011, 10:59 AM
That makes you sound like you haven't been living in Pakistan. Did that really come as a shock/surprise to you?

What surprises me is that no one is safe here, not even the top level officials and the guy who did it got showered with roses, it's just fucking horrid. They treating him like a hero, a coward like him being treated like a hero, it's just a shame.

Ali, there's nothing brave about being yourself. If others can't accept who you are it's their problem, not yours. If your parents really love you and care for you, they'll eventually accept you.
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Re: A very late introduction.
Reply #15 - January 16, 2011, 03:11 PM

Hey J.
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Re: A very late introduction.
Reply #16 - January 16, 2011, 03:29 PM

Interesting J., thanks for sharing.

fuck you
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Re: A very late introduction.
Reply #17 - January 16, 2011, 03:30 PM

Before I welcome you J, do you have a ring on that finger? If so, can I induce you to remove it for an hour? I wanna show you something special on the webcam. Can you guess what it is my sugarplum?
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Re: A very late introduction.
Reply #18 - January 16, 2011, 03:35 PM

Welcome J.

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Re: A very late introduction.
Reply #19 - January 16, 2011, 04:04 PM

Welcome to the forum J. I am from Pakistan too and understand it is not easy to come out. However I will suggest you should be careful and not too open about your apostasy even with friends.
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Re: A very late introduction.
Reply #20 - January 16, 2011, 06:16 PM

welcome bro!! keep quiet in that country for your own good !!

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Re: A very late introduction.
Reply #21 - January 16, 2011, 08:33 PM

Quote from: J. on January 16, 2011, 09:50 AM
I've been studying astronomy for almost 3 years, cosmology for 1 and I love it. I joined this forum to help and contribute in the science section of the site. I wanted to meet like-minded people and so far it's been great. I've met very nice people here -- hi guys -- and I hope to meet more.

You're a couragrous lad. I am glad you found us, how did you bump into this site?

Sounds like you have done your research about Islam, what literature did you read? Also do you know any other exmuslims in Pakistan? When they think you are being stupid & call you the devil, list for them the worlds greatest thinkers who are atheists.

My advice is focus the negative anger you have towards Islam in a postive way. Try to make it better & easier for anybody else in your situtation to come out. Try to spread the word, but be careful about how you phrase things.

Theres no benefit in rubbing people up the wrong way, even if they are rude to you. Join one of the many Pakistani atheist clubs, and I look forward to reading your name in the newspapers one day

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Re: A very late introduction.
Reply #22 - January 16, 2011, 08:37 PM

btw there are a few Pakistanis on this site too - you guys/girls need a bit more solidarity & should get together to form a group

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Re: A very late introduction.
Reply #23 - January 16, 2011, 08:58 PM

Welcome to the forum, J.

Nice intro.

I am 'teapot' in the chatroom.

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Re: A very late introduction.
Reply #24 - January 16, 2011, 10:58 PM

Welcome officially J!
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Re: A very late introduction.
Reply #25 - January 17, 2011, 01:44 AM

Quote from: IsLame on January 16, 2011, 08:33 PM
You're a couragrous lad. I am glad you found us, how did you bump into this site?

I found this site surfing the internet back in October. I don't remember how I got here exactly, but once I got here I kept coming back.

Quote from: IsLame on January 16, 2011, 08:33 PM
Sounds like you have done your research about Islam, what literature did you read? Also do you know any other exmuslims in Pakistan? When they think you are being stupid & call you the devil, list for them the worlds greatest thinkers who are atheists.

There just isn't one piece of literature that I can remember. The main thing seemed be thinking critically, questioning what can't be questioned. I read the Quran and found many things questionable, and I started asking questions. No one seemed to answer the questions I asked. I asked my father about 4:34, he had nothing to say about it, he thinks it's perfectly fine. Well, I can think of many horrible things that you can do to your wife that won't leave a mark...water boarding doesn't leave a mark ...I've read books like The God Delusion and such.

And don't you know that Einstein was a closet Muslim?

Quote from: IsLame on January 16, 2011, 08:33 PM
My advice is focus the negative anger you have towards Islam in a postive way. Try to make it better & easier for anybody else in your situtation to come out. Try to spread the word, but be careful about how you phrase things.

Yeah, it's not the best idea to attack Islam directly, most people just shut down and go into defence mode. It's just best to teach a man how to think and not what to think. Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day, teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime.
Quote from: IsLame on January 16, 2011, 08:33 PM
Join one of the many Pakistani atheist clubs, and I look forward to reading your name in the newspapers one day

I don't know of any Pakistani atheist clubs. And I hope my name isn't in the papers for the wrong reasons.

Quote from: IsLame on January 16, 2011, 08:37 PM
btw there are a few Pakistanis on this site too - you guys/girls need a bit more solidarity & should get together to form a group

CEMB Pakistani Mafia perhaps?
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Re: A very late introduction.
Reply #26 - January 17, 2011, 02:08 AM

Welcome. Nothing wrong with doing late introductions. I haven't done one yet, but that's because having understood more about the mass majority of humanity and their stupidity, I've become a right fuckin' misanthrope.
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Re: A very late introduction.
Reply #27 - January 17, 2011, 04:03 AM

Quote from: J. on January 17, 2011, 01:44 AM
CEMB Pakistani Mafia perhaps?

I propose: Land of Pure Underworld

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Re: A very late introduction.
Reply #28 - January 19, 2011, 01:33 AM

^ I like that

Or 'Na-pakistan' (land of impures)

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Re: A very late introduction.
Reply #29 - January 19, 2011, 03:19 PM

Or you could call it Kasifistan.

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