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Theme Changer

 Topic: a muslim...really

 (Read 16913 times)
  • Previous page 1 2 34 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Re: a muslim...really
     Reply #60 - April 09, 2011, 07:38 PM

    I think it comes down to faith, at the core of it all. I think that it comes down to an inherent belief in God


    Yes and that isn't a choice. (Nevermind a crime.) So how is it justifiable that god punishes people for it, let alone incomprehensibly painfully for ever and ever and ever more?
  • Re: a muslim...really
     Reply #61 - April 09, 2011, 07:39 PM

    BTW do you accept evolution, streetraydio?
  • Re: a muslim...really
     Reply #62 - April 09, 2011, 07:39 PM

    Cause that would make God, who is conceived of as being all good and merciful, a sick, sadistic fuck.


    yeah you're right. I suppose I should recant my stance and say that no, I don't believe that and God absolves whom he wills and I have no authority to condemn anyone to an eternity in agony
  • Re: a muslim...really
     Reply #63 - April 09, 2011, 07:41 PM



    I don't feel like watching 16 mins of video, reply when you're arm heals up. I imagine you're probably typing with one finger right now and that can't be too pleasing
  • Re: a muslim...really
     Reply #64 - April 09, 2011, 07:42 PM

    We do not need to assume any authority, Islam is pretty clear on this. You don't believe in Allah (supposing that you have been exposed to Islam) - you're going to hell. It's an irreconcilable absurdity.
  • Re: a muslim...really
     Reply #65 - April 09, 2011, 07:42 PM

    BTW do you accept evolution, streetraydio?


    I don't know I have yet to read the origin of species. I'm sure Darwin's published many other works but because that is his magnum opus I guess I should start there
  • Re: a muslim...really
     Reply #66 - April 09, 2011, 07:44 PM

    We do not need to assume any authority, Islam is pretty clear on this. You don't believe in Allah (supposing that you have been exposed to Islam) - you're going to hell. It's an irreconcilable absurdity.


    I don't think its anywhere close to that overt and explicit, God forgives whom he will and who are we to speculate who that may be?
  • Re: a muslim...really
     Reply #67 - April 09, 2011, 07:44 PM

    I would advise not to start there (though if you really feel you must, make sure it's the first edition). Are you familiar with how natural selection operates?
  • Re: a muslim...really
     Reply #68 - April 09, 2011, 07:45 PM

    Not only does Allah punish people for their sins, he also creates people predetermined to sin, creating some of us for the purpose of being punished, just because he can. Those made especially for hell are many in number. Thats an extra-special kind of sadistic.

    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Re: a muslim...really
     Reply #69 - April 09, 2011, 07:46 PM

    ^ More or less, I've watched "Charles Darwin and the Tree of Life" by David Attenborough so that provided a good background for me to start
  • Re: a muslim...really
     Reply #70 - April 09, 2011, 07:46 PM

    I don't think its anywhere close to that overt and explicit, God forgives whom he will and who are we to speculate who that may be?


    We don't need to suppose, Allah has told us about unforgivable sins. He is a liar or a sadist or a fiction.
  • Re: a muslim...really
     Reply #71 - April 09, 2011, 07:47 PM

    Not only does Allah punish people for their sins, he also creates people predetermined to sin, creating some of us for the purpose of being punished, just because he can. Those made especially for hell are many in number. Thats an extra-special kind of sadistic.


    OK what would you say if there was no inherent predisposition to disbelieve and people chose to do it?
  • Re: a muslim...really
     Reply #72 - April 09, 2011, 07:48 PM

    ^ More or less, I've watched "Charles Darwin and the Tree of Life" by David Attenborough so that provided a good background for me to start


    Hmm, what is your aversion to it, then? Would you need to read up on the evidence?
  • Re: a muslim...really
     Reply #73 - April 09, 2011, 07:49 PM

    We don't need to suppose, Allah has told us about unforgivable sins. He is a liar or a sadist or a fiction.


    Keep in mind I am a Muslim and although I don't readily endorse political correctness I still have feelings so tread with some trepidation.
  • Re: a muslim...really
     Reply #74 - April 09, 2011, 07:49 PM

    Hmm, what is your aversion to it, then? Would you need to read up on the evidence?


    Yes although he provides a good base, I still think there's a need for personal inquiry
  • Re: a muslim...really
     Reply #75 - April 09, 2011, 07:50 PM

    I don't know I have yet to read the origin of species. I'm sure Darwin's published many other works but because that is his magnum opus I guess I should start there

    Richard Dawkins' The Greatest Show on Earth would probably be a better start: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Greatest-Show-Earth-Evidence-Evolution/dp/055277524X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1302378410&sr=8-1

    It's only £5.19 (£4.93 for Kindle) or get it from your local library.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I-QWv_0Mjq0
  • Re: a muslim...really
     Reply #76 - April 09, 2011, 07:51 PM

    OK what would you say if there was no inherent predisposition to disbelieve and people chose to do it?


    But that isn't the case. You cannot choose to believe something. You can do things that may make you believe one way or the other, you can read arguments, you can attend lectures. You can act as if you believe, you could even pretend to believe. But what effect those have on you, whether you actually believe or not, is not a direct choice. Yet it is the only thing that matters in Islam. Everything else results in a finite punishment. But a year, or a million billion years is nothing compared to eternity. And it's kufr/shirk that earns you eternal hell. Where as even an iota of iman, of belief, will eventually get you to heaven, where you will spend eternity - again nullifying any finite punishment.

    And for what a crime! Who are we harming when we do not believe?
  • Re: a muslim...really
     Reply #77 - April 09, 2011, 07:53 PM

    OK what would you say if there was no inherent predisposition to disbelieve and people chose to do it?

    But "Allah Guides Whom He Wills"?
  • Re: a muslim...really
     Reply #78 - April 09, 2011, 07:53 PM

    Keep in mind I am a Muslim and although I don't readily endorse political correctness I still have feelings so tread with some trepidation.


    I wouldn't insult you, just your god. I think you need to realise that respect for a person's right to havea  belief does not equate to respect for that belief. But if you must insist... I will tone it down...
  • Re: a muslim...really
     Reply #79 - April 09, 2011, 07:54 PM

    OK what would you say if there was no inherent predisposition to disbelieve and people chose to do it?

    I don't understand the question. Can you clarify? Do you mean, if people were suffering infinite suffering for an infinite amount of time for disbelieving in something of their own free will, what would I think?

    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Re: a muslim...really
     Reply #80 - April 09, 2011, 07:57 PM

    I don't understand the question. Can you clarify? Do you mean, if people were suffering infinite suffering for an infinite amount of time for disbelieving in something of their own free will, what would I think?



    I think he's proposing the hypothetical scenario where people could pick beliefs ofo a shelf, and just choose to stop believing in allah. It obviously would make little difference as disbelief in-and-of-itself isn't a crime anyway...
  • Re: a muslim...really
     Reply #81 - April 09, 2011, 08:01 PM

    I think he's proposing the hypothetical scenario where people could pick beliefs of a shelf, and just choose to stop believing in allah. It obviously would make little difference as disbelief in-and-of-itself isn't a crime anyway...

    Well, this isn't the case with Islam. Our sins are written into us in the womb, according to Islam, and only Allah can change us should he decide to.

    And regardless, infinite suffering for an infinite amount of time is absolutely the worst possible experience. No crime that I can think of warrants such a punishment, and having an opinion about the nature of the universe isn't a crime anyway.

    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Re: a muslim...really
     Reply #82 - April 09, 2011, 08:04 PM

    You and I were created especially for Hell, Prince. Might as well enjoy Earthly pleasures while you're here.

    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Re: a muslim...really
     Reply #83 - April 09, 2011, 08:08 PM

    I'm not sure if I'm more upset by the idea of hell or an eternity with you.
  • Re: a muslim...really
     Reply #84 - April 09, 2011, 08:08 PM

    And regardless, infinite suffering for an infinite amount of time is absolutely the worst possible experience. No crime that I can think of warrants such a punishment, and having an opinion about the nature of the universe isn't a crime anyway.


    Succinctly put. I would like streetray to address that, and while he's at it address why God would create man with full knowledge that some men would rebel against his authority and thus he would be in the position to eternally torment his own creations.

    fuck you
  • Re: a muslim...really
     Reply #85 - April 09, 2011, 08:13 PM

    I don't think its anywhere close to that overt and explicit, God forgives whom he will and who are we to speculate who that may be?



    Are you kidding? The Qur'an is very explicit about unbelievers being tortured eternally in Hell.
  • Re: a muslim...really
     Reply #86 - April 09, 2011, 08:13 PM

    can you reference that please?


    yeah I'll try to Cheesy

    "its fashionable to be an ex Muslim these days"
  • Re: a muslim...really
     Reply #87 - April 09, 2011, 08:14 PM

    I'm not sure if I'm more upset by the idea of hell or an eternity with you.

    Keep in mind I am an atheist and although I don't readily endorse political correctness I still have feelings so tread with some trepidation.

    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Re: a muslim...really
     Reply #88 - April 09, 2011, 08:44 PM

    All Right All Right guys simmer down.

    I came to this website primarily because me perception of Islam was limited to the scope of prescient Muslims. I came here seeking a new perspective. Although I must admit that I came here thinking I would encounter people who were largely uninformed I have to say that that assumption was wrong. Please don't take offense to that, I haven't had much contact with ex-Muslims, (as you can see from my introductory post).

    Anyways, I came here seeking a new perspective and I found one, and even in my few hours here I can say that I've already learned so much from all of you here.

    I think it is time for me to regress into my very own fortress of solitude as your kryptonite (sowing the seeds of disbelief) is taking quite a toll, not on my imaan but on my faith in muslims

    A few personal acknowledgements:

    BlackDog: thanks for the inviting welcome and opinions

    Hassan: thanks for explaining to me your rationale, I've bookmarked your blog so be sure to update it regularly once your arm/hand/broken appendage heals up

    alsaeedm: Although we disagreed on a lot of issues I still respect your opinion and the inviting welcome

    Q-Man: it was nice to see someone actually enthused about my avatar and vice versa, all the best

    Spinoza: thanks for the invaluable conversational company, you provided me with questions I'll try answering

    Kenan: thanks for the book details, I'm not much a fan of Dawkins but after I've gone through the origin of species I might just take a look at it in passing

    Yeezeevee: although you seemed like you were spewing rubbish close to the end there I still admire the fact that you actually took time to research islamic organizations in Botswana LOL

    Ishina: Although I only got to know you close to the end I still respect the fact that you took time to post on this post. thanks

    Sorry if I've missed anyone, I might drop by once I've learned some more because, as was all too evident in my responses, I have a lot to learn.

    Parrots for everyone  parrot parrot parrot parrot parrot parrot parrot parrot parrot parrot

    Ciao and W. Salaam


  • Re: a muslim...really
     Reply #89 - April 09, 2011, 08:50 PM

    Aw, stick around man. Newcomer Muslims often find the sheer volume of responses on their intro threads overwhelming, but I hope you'll at least stick around and contribute to some other threads around the forum. If you are leaving, welcome back any time, brother.  Afro

    fuck you
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