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Theme Changer

 Topic: The Ex-Muslim label

 (Read 5703 times)
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  • Re: The Ex-Muslim label
     Reply #30 - April 11, 2011, 01:05 PM

    We both left Islam at 24. We got something in common haha!
  • Re: The Ex-Muslim label
     Reply #31 - April 11, 2011, 01:11 PM

    It's the magic number!  Smiley

    The closer you get to 30, to marriage (as a Muslim), the more stresses life places on you and you just start to "accept" things. You get lazy intellectually and often much more practising because the fear just takes over. I've seen it happen so many times, it's sad.
  • Re: The Ex-Muslim label
     Reply #32 - April 11, 2011, 01:12 PM

    Just thought I'd add, I had a debate about something similar to this with someone, basically about Islam. He didn't know much about Islam or the plight of minorities under Islam, but he said referring to an ex-Muslim in a debate about Islam was like referring to an ex-gay in a debate about homosexuality; that it was illogical. What an absolute idiot.
  • Re: The Ex-Muslim label
     Reply #33 - April 11, 2011, 01:37 PM

    I keep this in my mind always and at all times.

    We all will die, but what legacy will I leave behind.

    The worst thing that could ever happen to me is not the downfall of al Islam or Mecca loosing pilgrims and Profit but Leaving this world without any Children.

    That is my worst nightmare. Our children will continue to keep us alive in this world.

    I hope science finds a way of preventing Death lol! I heard the Russians are already freezing peoples brains so maybe in the future they could be reactivated.
  • Re: The Ex-Muslim label
     Reply #34 - April 11, 2011, 02:04 PM

    You dont need to change or aglo-saxonise your name just to be "Totally" integrated. That is Sheer non-sense.

    Let me remind you that nobody was born a Muslim and neither has any culture been born from Islam.

    Everyone was once a Pagan or another faith.

    I got a Hebrew first name and a Turkish sure name, I would never change it just to impress a father in law who considers you to be a radical muslim in the next 20 years, if he cant accept you for who you are then sod him, he is ignorant and a complete twat!




    Sorry, I should have been more clear, you misunderstood.
    By total integration I don't mean conforming with my father in law's demands; I'm not doing it for him.
    But when I meet new people, I don't want the first image to be "an Arabic guy". Because even in tolerant countries, employees for example still take your "background" into account, and there have been cases of discrimination in job interviews.
    And likewise it would help in other situations where my background affects my odds of being approved.

    You still might calling it "selling your identity and giving in to the racist bastards", but it's not like I feel bad about it or feel obliged to do it.
    It will simply make life a bit easier and I have no problems with it at all.

    <dust>: i love tea!!!
    <dust>: milky tea
    <three>: soooo gentle for my neck (from the inside)
    <dust>: mm
    <three>: it's definitely not called neck
    <dust>: lol
    <three>: what's the word i'm looking for
    <dust>: throat
  • Re: The Ex-Muslim label
     Reply #35 - April 11, 2011, 02:12 PM

    Just thought I'd add, I had a debate about something similar to this with someone, basically about Islam. He didn't know much about Islam or the plight of minorities under Islam, but he said referring to an ex-Muslim in a debate about Islam was like referring to an ex-gay in a debate about homosexuality; that it was illogical. What an absolute idiot.

    This is clearly stupid, but to some degree or other I suspect very common amongst those with little exposure to Islam, Muslims and apostates. I can imagine it may be very difficult for most of you, as ex-Muslims, to appreciate just how ignorant the rest of society is. Conflation of Islam with ethnicity, nationality, physical appearance, culture and commonly associated behaviours is rife. As such, it can require a little bit of forced logic to appreciate what should be blindingly obvious, that religion is constituted by opinion, which can change. I'm afraid to say that, in the UK at least, the fact that the colour of your skin, the cover of your passport or the history of your family has not changed is lazily inferred to mean that neither has, or can, your religion. So, for those able to, time to start educating us life-long kafirs by talking about your apostasy.

    People must be enlightened as to the existence of ex-Muslims before they can start giving a shit about their plight...so get up, get out and start letting people know: ex-Muslims exist and will not be ignored! Smiley
  • Re: The Ex-Muslim label
     Reply #36 - April 11, 2011, 02:20 PM

    Just thought I'd add, I had a debate about something similar to this with someone, basically about Islam. He didn't know much about Islam or the plight of minorities under Islam, but he said referring to an ex-Muslim in a debate about Islam was like referring to an ex-gay in a debate about homosexuality; that it was illogical. What an absolute idiot.

    A better analogy would be: Referring to an Ex-Muslim in a debate about Islam is like referring to a closet gay in a debate about homophobia.

    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Re: The Ex-Muslim label
     Reply #37 - April 11, 2011, 03:01 PM

    I can understand the need to shed Islam completely. I presume more often than not that for Ex-Muslims, Islam is a power word that represents a darker time in their life. And Muslim is a word that represents the person they didn’t want to be and no longer are. Shedding these ideas is the best thing to do. Self-description like this is self-affliction. It's unnecessary psychological baggage for the most part. Those in a position to cleanse themselves of such mental constructs should do so, without shame or regret.

    However, I think there are practical reasons for retaining Ex-Muslim as part of your identity, or at least making it known when needs must. Ex-Muslims are still an unknown quantity in the society I know. Rather than a conforming label, Ex-Muslim should represent a diverse group of people, from a vast spectrum of different races and colours, with different opinions, ideas, passions, and it should represent it to the world. It proves that you can live a fulfilled life without Islam. You should be able to live an intimidation -free life without Islam too. But this isn’t the case for many. This is the shit that tears families apart. This simple identity amounts to threats, emotional blackmail and coercion, or ostracism, or in some cases violence and even death. It’s serious business. I feel blessed to be born in the UK. But even in the UK this happens.

    And there is the practicality I think - it’s something for others to relate to, those who do not have the luxury to even openly call themselves Ex-Muslim. There is often no external help for people trying to break out of Islam. Nobody knows. If the majority of Ex-Muslims here are anything like me, and I know many are, then they clawed their way out of Islam the hard way, alone. Just to know that there are others like you, going through or having gone through what you are going through, is a great boost to morale and spirit.

    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Re: The Ex-Muslim label
     Reply #38 - April 11, 2011, 03:13 PM

    Some thoughts on atheism, which could equally be a applied to Ex-Muslim:

    I don’t call myself an atheist because it represents my spiritual or moral outlook in a nutshell or handy label. Because it doesn’t, no more than theist represents a spiritual or moral outlook. There is a whole spectrum of different beliefs and moral alchemy under the umbrella terms of theism and atheism. It isn’t even necessarily a claim or statement of belief or faith for me. It doesn’t denote my personal spiritual path, political denomination, sexuality, likes or dislikes, hopes or dreams. The only thing you could possibly guess about me as a person if I say I’m an atheist is that I don’t believe in the existence of any of the current selection of deities and cartoon entities on offer. If that’s enough for you to sum me up, I don’t even wanna talk to you anyway. You’re boring. You’re not interested in me and I’m certainly not interested in you. Lets part ways and not waste each others time.

    The main reason I call myself an atheist is because, in 2010, its still a controversial affiliation with so much unnecessary stigma attached. I call myself an atheist as a measure of support and a show of solidarity with those worse off than me who are isolated in communities that would actively discriminate against them should they make themselves known, and who remain in the closet unable to express themselves freely for fear of upsetting or incurring the wrath of loved ones, persecution, social exclusion and alienation, harassment, bullying, or even death. I want to be counted amongst them, for what it is worth. And it is worth something. There are people out there who are drowning and suffocating, who need others to identify with, even complete strangers half a world away. Its understated how much just a nod, an acknowledgment, a bit of validation can mean to some people. This reason alone is enough for me to wear the atheist label with pride, wholeheartedly and unashamed.

    We feel so isolated sometimes, but humans are not meant to be alone. They'll take what they can get, be that a normal happy family, or a compromise in some form of social outlet, or hard brothers and sisters in blood who watch each others back living in dark streets. We all need to belong, need to be understood and appreciated. We move through life, trying to establish ourselves and make our mark, discover our sense of identity, trying to be unique, but all the time silently crying out for others just like us. There are no sign posts sometimes. You end up where you end up. It is understated how much simply hearing a few simple words from someone else can help you find your way. When you learn you are not alone, things can change in profound ways. It’s a spark that ignites you. When you find out others are going through what you are going through, you no longer need to feel guilty for it, because you know you are not flawed or wrong, just different. It isn't a bad thing to be different. This typically is what religious institutions have preyed upon, often having created this atmosphere or alienating individuals to this extent in the first place. Religion is a door that is always open - for the weak, the meek, the lost, for the predatory, for the manipulative, for the corrupt, for the abused and the abuser. They are, of a kind, reaping what they have sewn.

    For me, there is pride in separating myself from the religions of the world and calling myself an atheist. This is before we even get into armchair philosophical discussions, intellectual masturbation or anal-retentive definition arguments. I don’t relate to any of the religions currently preaching in this world, disagree wholeheartedly and often furiously with practically all their dogma and pseudo-philosophy. For me, the word atheism symbolises a disconnect from these religions, rejecting them, drawing a line and defending it. I think the fact that atheism isnt a religion or institution is what gives it its power, and more power to it if it ever becomes something bigger. There is a certain amount of dignity and a sense of individuality - freedom. Religion is for cattle and easy-mode living, for people who wish to buy their personality off of a mythology section bookshelf. I call myself an atheist because I identify with those lone voices of dissent in worse situations than me, where I was once upon a time, and I am an advocate of any form of solidarity against the institutions that go out of their way to alienate me and many others. I’ll stand and be counted amongst the minority who are in the closet and surrounded by religious deadheads and zealots, so that they might know they are not alone, and that they are one of many, and that it will get better. I’m quite happy to bear the stigma attached to atheism, and I’m quite willing to tear the face off anyone who has a problem with that, for myself and on behalf of anyone who stands with me. And I will continue to call myself an atheist until it is fully and unconditionally accepted and becomes a redundant term.

    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Re: The Ex-Muslim label
     Reply #39 - April 11, 2011, 04:12 PM


    I got a Hebrew first name and a Turkish sure name, I would never change it just to impress a father in law who considers you to be a radical muslim in the next 20 years, if he cant accept you for who you are then sod him, he is ignorant and a complete twat!


    Hmmmm  Bloody juice and you say I am juice??  Now i know why simple  Punjabi Muslim folks like this BOY Ahmed Quraishi   hate juice like you..

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r5qMHNFuil0


    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: The Ex-Muslim label
     Reply #40 - April 11, 2011, 08:08 PM

    I usually say "I'm from a Muslim background, though I do not believe in Islam myself." It takes longer to say, but it's worth it, because it shows that I am not trying to deny or be ashamed of my heritage, and that I know that I have the choice to take or leave parts of it. My heritage is part of who I am but not all of who I am. Just like my ancestors were also Hindu and Zoroastrian, etc., I do not have to pretend that they were not, and I do not have to defend the things they did that I do not agree with.

    There's a sense among many people in the world that being Muslim is a "race". Besides the fact that race is purely a social construct and not a biological one, this way of thinking of Muslims as "one people" is wrong because there are many different kinds of Muslims in the world. Different sects, different ethnicities, differences due to regional practices, etc. There's a saying with a lot of truth in: "race doesn't exist but racism does".

    For some people (generally the most close-minded Muslims and the most racist non-Muslims), I will be a Muslim no matter what I do or don't do. They have created in their mind the fallacy that being Muslim is a race in and of itself that can never change. I ask them how it is that someone can join Islam, if it's a race. If anyone can join it, then anyone can leave it. It's a philosophy, a school of thought (or rather a set of somewhat varying schools of thought). It's not a race anymore than being Christian is a race, or being Buddhist, etc.

    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
  • Re: The Ex-Muslim label
     Reply #41 - April 12, 2011, 08:12 AM

    hahah Yeeez!

    Ahmed Qureshi is the guy who was caught saying "We must lie and do Propaganda, as its all fair and love in War" on Facebook.

    He is just ISI's new tool! First it was Hamid Zaid, the Islamist who has his topi designed by a Skirt wearing Maria B.

    They are all entertainment, thats pretty much it. They know Zero about the current situation and this Bogus Pakistanism is a load of Non-Sense.

    Yeez, do you know Hamid Zaid once stated that my tribe being "Mahsud" receive monthly wages from Raw agency hahaha my tribe find it difficult to find a place to sleep let alone turning it into some jame bond movie.

    All these guys are the Teleevanglicals of Pakistan. They put fear into a already tarnished population to keep them under control. Last year, I travelled all over the Tribal belt of Pakistan, and I seen with my own eyes, Pakistan Army having "Gap Shap" with Taliban Militia.

    In Areas such as DI Khan and Tank, there are Pro Govt Afghan Taliban groups doing Police work and army work, why is the world silent on that issue?

    I personally hope India plays a vital and positive role in keep Pakistan Jihadi Influence out of the Region.
  • Re: The Ex-Muslim label
     Reply #42 - April 12, 2011, 08:13 AM

    hahah Yeeez!

    Ahmed Qureshi is the guy who was caught saying "We must lie and do Propaganda, as its all fair and love in War" on Facebook.

    He is just ISI's new tool! First it was Hamid Zaid, the Islamist who has his topi designed by a Skirt wearing Maria B.

    They are all entertainment, thats pretty much it. They know Zero about the current situation and this Bogus Pakistanism is a load of Non-Sense.

    Yeez, do you know Hamid Zaid once stated that my tribe being "Mahsud" receive monthly wages from Raw agency hahaha my tribe find it difficult to find a place to sleep let alone turning it into some jame bond movie.

    All these guys are the Teleevanglicals of Pakistan. They put fear into a already tarnished population to keep them under control. Last year, I travelled all over the Tribal belt of Pakistan, and I seen with my own eyes, Pakistan Army having "Gap Shap" with Taliban Militia.

    In Areas such as DI Khan and Tank, there are Pro Govt Afghan Taliban groups doing Police work and army work, why is the world silent on that issue?

    I personally hope India plays a vital and positive role in keep Pakistan Jihadi Influence out of the Region.
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