Minority forward acting Muslims on taking the general Muslim public

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Minority forward acting Muslims on taking the general Muslim public
OP - April 25, 2011, 03:35 PM

Whether it is a Muslim MP not wearing a scarf to a Muslim girl entering the Miss Universe contest to a Muslim lady on Playboy ... do you think second generations are starting to show they can go public and are challenging backwards Islam to a more Modern Islam? i.e.g one that is not much like the real Islam except for the label?

All we need now are Muslim singers, rappers, dancers, movie stars (happy to kiss and bare nude), alcohol becoming acceptable to Muslims in the public eye, some prominent Muslims open to having a gf or bf and this would give younger Muslims more confidence to adopt developed cultural values.

.... just a thought.

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Re: Minority forward acting Muslims on taking the general Muslim public
Reply #1 - April 25, 2011, 03:41 PM

for sure they are. all those things u mentioned are happening everywhere in the western world with muslim societies. the way i see it it will take some time.

plus you forgot to mention the desi porn stars

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Re: Minority forward acting Muslims on taking the general Muslim public
Reply #2 - April 25, 2011, 05:31 PM

Well due to the internet not only Muslims, but people from all over the world are being exposed to the lifestyles of different cultures and some wish to adapt a similar lifestyles, it works both ways. With all the negative stereotypes of Muslims it'll be beneficial when they start contributing to the cultures of 'other societies' be it music or something else (I don't support porn though sorry :p). I hate to say West because it makes it sound like the West is the only place in the entire world where alcohol, music and dating and other haram stuff is acceptable the world doesn't revolve around us, even though some of us like to believe it so.

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Re: Minority forward acting Muslims on taking the general Muslim public
Reply #3 - April 25, 2011, 09:07 PM

About the porn: yes, I can see people's apprehension. But I think when a woman can freely expose herself either on page 3 or a playboy magazine; however indecent, it reveals a lot about that culture's freedom: people are given wider boundaries of choice to live their lives which are bounded by logical/rational reasons which men continually improve on (e.g. laws), than a static idealism which during one snapshot in time was decided by a few people.

This wider boundary is important for progress, even if it does mean people get drunk, do porno shoots or become a prostitute for a living; in the same way that freedom allows people to think into science and challenge religion, develop medical care over prayers to cure people, advance with technology than live a life by doing things on how things were done before. Freedom is an overall positive thing, and when Muslim/Islamic leaders just try to take "the good parts of the west" and forget "the bad parts", they are missing the point of why that culture allows those "bad things" to happen in the first place.

I also think it is better to phrase it as developed culture, not Western culture. "Western culture" is practiced in Japan, S. Korea, Hong Kong, Singapore, Thailand, and other nations. India is well on it's way to the same ideal too, but it'll take it a while.

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Re: Minority forward acting Muslims on taking the general Muslim public
Reply #4 - April 25, 2011, 09:42 PM

HO, I hope you're right.

I think though that there are a few factors that liberalisers in the Muslim community at large face (note I am referring to those Muslims who just want to have some space for individualism, not nessecarily those who want to get into the nitty gritty of structurally liberalising the religion itself)

Three things:

* Any liberalisation and loosening of affiliation to traditional or reactionary versions of Islam will produce a counter-reaction. When literalists and conservatives and extremists flourish, they are doing so with an eye on liberal Muslims as much as non Muslims. When someone in your family or circle of friends rejects Islam, or liberalises their life away from Islam, it provides a personal, near example and narrative of why 'Islam is in danger', and so the walls close in further.

* Islamic identity politics on a grassroots level is the bane of Muslims in the UK.

* Feeding into both of the above, the constant injection into the blood supply of British Muslims of the reactionary, literalist, brutalist Jamaat-e-Islami, Tableegi-Jamaati, Deobandi, Salafi, Maududi-ist version of Islam, which brings the reactionary mores and mindsets and attitudes of South Asian Islam to bear in a modern, liberal, secular context of 21st Century Britain......as much liberalisation occurs, wil be depleted by the constant stream of this Islam, transferring ideology like heroin in a needle into the atmospherics and space of British Muslim communities.

Those are some of the challenges. As more liberal Muslims come to the fore, attitudes will harden too.

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Re: Minority forward acting Muslims on taking the general Muslim public
Reply #5 - April 25, 2011, 11:10 PM

Hmm I've not seen serious political counter-reactions against these individual Muslim displays of "freedom". Well, I think I read about the Muslim Council of Britain against the Miss Universe lady's actions but I can't remember.

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Re: Minority forward acting Muslims on taking the general Muslim public
Reply #6 - April 25, 2011, 11:46 PM

Identity politics and reactionary Islam(ism) doesn't give British Muslims the space and time they need to settle on their own compact and relationship with the faith, including moving away from it in degree, or even totally. These are pressures that compromise the balanced life they seek to find.

Its complex.

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Re: Minority forward acting Muslims on taking the general Muslim public
Reply #7 - April 26, 2011, 12:10 AM

Quote from: HighOctane on April 25, 2011, 11:10 PM
Hmm I've not seen serious political counter-reactions against these individual Muslim displays of "freedom". Well, I think I read about the Muslim Council of Britain against the Miss Universe lady's actions but I can't remember.

Well Christian fundamentalism ( of the American kind) was a reaction against Darwinism, liberalism, etc. It draws people to the extremes ( extremes as in dogmatic adherence or "cultural religious affiliation" as the center cannot hold.

So once again I'm left with the classic Irish man's dilemma, do I eat the potato or do I let it ferment so I can drink it later?
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Re: Minority forward acting Muslims on taking the general Muslim public
Reply #8 - April 26, 2011, 02:39 AM

Quote from: billy on April 25, 2011, 11:46 PM
Identity politics and reactionary Islam(ism) doesn't give British Muslims the space and time they need to settle on their own compact and relationship with the faith, including moving away from it in degree, or even totally. These are pressures that compromise the balanced life they seek to find.

Its complex.

Well, I think Zakir Naik is a real threat to moderates. So long a critical mass watching Muslim moderates are censored from his virus of hate and rubbish there is a better hope. Others are the bloomin' PeaceTV and Channel S and all that rubbish with the Mullahs and good Muslim kids on TV mindlessly reading out arabic prayers. Those channels really need to be tightly regulated I think. Or better yet, broadcast propaganda to the parents their kids can be in relationships and their daughters don't need to wear a headscarf and stay out as late as the boys since and that evolution is not at odds with Islam because some scholar somewhere said so.

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Re: Minority forward acting Muslims on taking the general Muslim public
Reply #9 - April 26, 2011, 03:16 AM

I don't think truly liberated Muslims can exist. Scholars will always condemn the drinking of alcohol, sex before marriage, etc. No matter if it's a modern version of Islam or an old version. Fundamentally it's an overpowering ~~religion~~ way of life. I think moderate Muslims feel they need to follow a bare minimum to make them feel like they are still Muslim. The bare minimum for someone might be not to drink alcohol and pray Jummah once in a while, but they have to follow some fundamental rules to feel like Muslims. Since Islam is a way of life it will always hold Muslims back in western society to a degree if they try to follow even a little. If people try to reinterpret bits of faith I can only see it being met with hostility given the current state of mainstream Muslims at the moment. Once someone stops following the bare fundamentals, Muslim just becomes an old useless identity tag that can be thrown away.

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