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 Topic: Wafa Sultan : Speak harshly and carry a stick

 (Read 12835 times)
  • Previous page 1 23 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Re: Wafa Sultan : Speak harshly and carry a stick
     Reply #30 - May 13, 2011, 11:12 AM

    Dude, the bitch has said on a couple of occasions she thinks nuking Muslim nations to bring pressure to bear on them is a good idea. She also says that Western nations need to stop considering Islam a religion, making it acceptable to have the state trample on people's religious freedoms.

    So people like her and Ali Sina have helped some people here apostate-- okay, fine-- but that is not enough reason to advocate allying with unprincipled, bigoted, authoritarian warmongering/scaremongering scum like Wafa Sultan. It's shameful you even suggested such a thing. You remind me of labor union activists who suck up to protectionist bigots like Pat Buchanan-- but, more in line with your experience, you also remind me of left-wing anti-imperialists who uncritically support groups like Hamas and Hizbollah. The enemy of my enemy of my friend, right, billy? Even if that friend is a bloodthirsty bigot advocating mass murder and wholesale oppression of large groups of people?


    Hi Q-Man  Afro

    I'm afraid I have to say that your memory is suspect, because I don't endorse all her views. In fact I said specifically that I don't agree with everything she says. So you'll have to correct your reminders, because they are premised on figments of your imagination.

    I also said that the reason why people like her get co-opted by the Right, is because people on the Left don't find a way to incorporate rigorous critiques of Islam into their worldview and rhetoric, for various reasons that we've covered here, that are in fact a constant recurring theme of discussions on this site. That, therefore is a failure and betrayal of the Left. Stardust has already mentioned how her commentary helped to dislodge her fear of confronting Islam, and I know one person who says the same, and have heard others say it too. Wafa Sultan seems to me to be a pretty spikey 'outlier' who in her eagerness to go for the jugular of Islam overstates the case occasionally. But the question for me is why is she left to be picked up by the Right and not assimilated and tempered by the Left, who appear to be witless and frightened to address radical critiques of Islam. (there is something else that may prevent this that is to do with being unable to articulate, in a secular context, a critique of any religion because the secular doesn't have the language to address the claims of divinity and religion - it feels embarassed or shy to do so, which is a failure caused by a lack of capability, not cowardice)

    Finally, do you have a reference to her saying Islamic countries should be nuked? I wasn't aware she had said such a thing. If she has, it goes without saying, she jumped the gun on that one.



    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Wafa Sultan : Speak harshly and carry a stick
     Reply #31 - May 13, 2011, 11:43 AM

     Roll Eyes

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vDeqlwhE2xc&feature=player_embedded

    Posted by even crazier even more bigoted Pam Geller

    Listen to the clarification the audience member asks at 0:52 and Sultan's clear response.

    "Jumping the gun" by advocating the indiscriminate massacre of over 200,000 civilians (around 700,000 if you include the pre-Hiroshima and Nagasaki firebombings)? Yeah, I guess that's one way of putting it.

    @DH Drop dead. I have a general policy of not replying to your posts, as I find it pointless, you may have noticed.

    "In battle, the well-honed spork is more dangerous than the mightiest sword" -- Sun Tzu
  • Re: Wafa Sultan : Speak harshly and carry a stick
     Reply #32 - May 13, 2011, 11:48 AM

    Quote
    "Jumping the gun" by advocating the indiscriminate massacre of over 200,000 civilians (around 700,000 if you include the pre-Hiroshima and Nagasaki firebombings)? Yeah, I guess that's one way of putting it.


     Roll Eyes

    I meant to say 'jumping the shark', ie: beyond the pale, if anyone advocates nuking anyone.




    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Wafa Sultan : Speak harshly and carry a stick
     Reply #33 - May 13, 2011, 12:20 PM

    I take the word bigot as a compliment these days. It's a fucking endorsement coming from the craven, panicking, simpering lefty clowns who normally throw it in mid-whine, like it's the most potent put down they could muster. Little wonder anyone with balls has been driven from the Left.

    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Re: Wafa Sultan : Speak harshly and carry a stick
     Reply #34 - May 13, 2011, 12:23 PM

    I take the word bigot as a compliment these days. It's a fucking endorsement coming from the craven, panicking, simpering lefty clowns who normally throw it in mid-whine, like it's the most potent put down they could muster.


    Never mind whether it's actually true or not?

    Quote
    Little wonder anyone with balls has been driven from the Left.


    Incorrect generalization.

    "In battle, the well-honed spork is more dangerous than the mightiest sword" -- Sun Tzu
  • Re: Wafa Sultan : Speak harshly and carry a stick
     Reply #35 - May 13, 2011, 12:26 PM

    Yawn.

    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Re: Wafa Sultan : Speak harshly and carry a stick
     Reply #36 - May 13, 2011, 12:29 PM

    You need head.

    "In battle, the well-honed spork is more dangerous than the mightiest sword" -- Sun Tzu
  • Re: Wafa Sultan : Speak harshly and carry a stick
     Reply #37 - May 13, 2011, 12:33 PM

    Who doesn't?

    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Re: Wafa Sultan : Speak harshly and carry a stick
     Reply #38 - May 13, 2011, 12:36 PM

    The Rev. does not.

    However, I hear Q-Man likes to both give and receive. Just sayin.

    "In battle, the well-honed spork is more dangerous than the mightiest sword" -- Sun Tzu
  • Re: Wafa Sultan : Speak harshly and carry a stick
     Reply #39 - May 13, 2011, 12:44 PM

    I also said that the reason why people like her get co-opted by the Right, is because people on the Left don't find a way to incorporate rigorous critiques of Islam into their world view and rhetoric, for various reasons that we've covered here, that are in fact a constant recurring theme of discussions on this site. That, therefore is a failure and betrayal of the Left.

    You are quite right there billy to point out that people like Wafa Sultan and A.H. Ali are lost opportunities for the progressive part of the political spectrum.
     
    In the UK and in Europe at large parties that are associated with left (Labour for example) have completely transformed their politics by privileging multicuturalist 'tolerance' and 'respect' (which in itself is completely patronising and fake anyway) thus turning multiculturalism into legally regulated mutual ignorance or even hatred between 'communities'.
    At the same time they have abandoned the working class and the struggle for socio-economical justice and started preaching that problems today are excursively culturo-ethical issues.

    The result is increasingly frustrated electorate and the rise of the far right in Europe that started presenting itself as guardian of the working class.

    Not to mention various "we are all Hamas/Hezbollah" loonies primarily defined by their 'anti-Americanism' and their uncritical acceptance of anti-American and anti-Western Muslim groups as automatic allies disregarding the fact that ideology of such groups is completely anti-modern and anti-egalitarian. Some groups on the left even consider emphasis on secularism as a 'Western' colonial plot.

    /rant

    Listen to the clarification the audience member asks at 0:52 and Sultan's clear response.

     
    Who is she referring to @0:38?

    EDIT:never mind; got the answer
  • Re: Wafa Sultan : Speak harshly and carry a stick
     Reply #40 - May 13, 2011, 12:47 PM

    The Rev. does not.

    However, I hear Q-Man likes to both give and receive. Just sayin.

    I'll leave you with this:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6VJNE01wXEc

    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Re: Wafa Sultan : Speak harshly and carry a stick
     Reply #41 - May 13, 2011, 03:58 PM

    Thanks for the Wafa Sultan vid Q-man. What Waffa Sultan actually SAID was "I truly believe that king Abdullah can change Islam overnight but you need to put pressure on him to do it and the same kind of pressure you put on Japan you MIGHT need it....Yes, eventually the west will need to do it. You have to put huge pressure on him to change Islam. This is the only way. I tell you a story."

    I did not catch the shout from the audience, but "the same kind of pressure you put on Japan" can only mean the use of nuclear weapons. However, it is disingenuous to suggest that Sultan is advocating a nuclear strike on "Muslim nations" at this moment in time. She is saying there are circumstances when it MIGHT be necessary (and I add "WILL" be necessary) - one circumstance I would imagine she is referring to is if the soldiers of Allah set off a nuclear weapon in the USA. How would you wish your government to respond in such circumstances?

    The mosque: the most epic display of collective douchbaggery, arrogance and delusion
  • Re: Wafa Sultan : Speak harshly and carry a stick
     Reply #42 - May 13, 2011, 04:24 PM

    I didn't hear about her calling for the nuking of muslims until I just searched it now, she does at the very least imply violence is needed against muslims Roll Eyes


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RxfjFHIlYhA
  • Re: Wafa Sultan : Speak harshly and carry a stick
     Reply #43 - May 13, 2011, 04:45 PM

    .
  • Re: Wafa Sultan : Speak harshly and carry a stick
     Reply #44 - May 13, 2011, 05:16 PM

    double post
  • Re: Wafa Sultan : Speak harshly and carry a stick
     Reply #45 - May 13, 2011, 05:54 PM

    Thanks for the Wafa Sultan vid Q-man. What Waffa Sultan actually SAID was "I truly believe that king Abdullah can change Islam overnight but you need to put pressure on him to do it and the same kind of pressure you put on Japan you MIGHT need it....Yes, eventually the west will need to do it. You have to put huge pressure on him to change Islam. This is the only way. I tell you a story."

    I did not catch the shout from the audience, but "the same kind of pressure you put on Japan" can only mean the use of nuclear weapons. However, it is disingenuous to suggest that Sultan is advocating a nuclear strike on "Muslim nations" at this moment in time. She is saying there are circumstances when it MIGHT be necessary (and I add "WILL" be necessary) - one circumstance I would imagine she is referring to is if the soldiers of Allah set off a nuclear weapon in the USA. How would you wish your government to respond in such circumstances?



    "In battle, the well-honed spork is more dangerous than the mightiest sword" -- Sun Tzu
  • Re: Wafa Sultan : Speak harshly and carry a stick
     Reply #46 - May 13, 2011, 05:56 PM

     Cheesy
  • Re: Wafa Sultan : Speak harshly and carry a stick
     Reply #47 - May 13, 2011, 06:34 PM

    Quote
    I take the word bigot as a compliment these days. It's a fucking endorsement coming from the craven, panicking, simpering lefty clowns who normally throw it in mid-whine, like it's the most potent put down they could muster. Little wonder anyone with balls has been driven from the Left.



    Very refreshing and thought provoking! Afro



    The World is my country, all mankind are my brethren, and to do good is my religion.
                                   Thomas Paine

    Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored !- Aldous Huxley
  • Re: Wafa Sultan : Speak harshly and carry a stick
     Reply #48 - May 13, 2011, 10:24 PM

    ....

    "The greatest general is not the one who can take the most cities or spill the most blood. The greatest general is the one who can take Heaven and Earth without waging the battle." ~ Sun Tzu

  • Re: Wafa Sultan : Speak harshly and carry a stick
     Reply #49 - May 13, 2011, 10:35 PM



    The pathetic state of the British Left!   Cheesy Cheesy



    The World is my country, all mankind are my brethren, and to do good is my religion.
                                   Thomas Paine

    Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored !- Aldous Huxley
  • Re: Wafa Sultan : Speak harshly and carry a stick
     Reply #50 - May 14, 2011, 10:45 AM

    Quote from: Mount A Bison
    Wafa Sultan is a matchless woman all may agree, a timeless woman, a dauntless woman, but my only caveat is that her sterling work might be more helpfully shelved in the fiction category. As, much as I respect you, does yours'. I've always held that the Nuke-Iran-Crowd was a fictional school of thought conjured by the wit tipped pen of some antiwar phrase-maker. But along comes my Turk-reviling Anglo brother DH to give it human form. Amusing.

    Indulge me now, against which towelhead country will the Pentagon wage thermonuclear war if AQ detonates a bomb in the sodomite clubs of San Franciso?


    You get me wrong. I personally would not advocate the use of nuclear weapons under ANY circumstances. I am merely placing Sultan's words in their proper context. With good reason she envisages a contuinually escalating process of aggression by the dar al-Islam against the non-Muslim world and forsees a situation where the threat of the use of nuclear weapons against the heartland of Islam will be forced upon the USA.

    The mosque: the most epic display of collective douchbaggery, arrogance and delusion
  • Re: Wafa Sultan : Speak harshly and carry a stick
     Reply #51 - May 16, 2011, 02:40 PM

    BTW, MAB, it looks like your blatant attempt to curry sexual favors from certain personages here by directing your withering scorn at my good self has earned you a removal from somebody's "ignore" list. Would the individual concerned care to own up so that MAB can insert his member after the manner of an  even-toed ungulate within the subfamily Bovidae into whichever bodily orifice(s) they are willing to receive it?

    The mosque: the most epic display of collective douchbaggery, arrogance and delusion
  • Re: Wafa Sultan : Speak harshly and carry a stick
     Reply #52 - May 16, 2011, 11:33 PM

    .
  • Re: Wafa Sultan : Speak harshly and carry a stick
     Reply #53 - May 17, 2011, 05:03 AM

    Quote from: Mount A Bison
    Your words do more to reveal Wafa's tenuous grasp on politics than to exculpate. Japan was not fried as she asserts for reasons of self defence. The declassified State Department files have longed shown that the Japs had been trying to surrender for months before Harry Truman baked them. The detonation of atomic weapons did not mark the end of the second world war so much as the beginning of the Cold War. Washington was trying to rattle the Soviet Union. There were many good strategic reasons for nuking imperial Japan, but saving lives was not one.


    That is my own understanding of those events. Wafa Sultan's choice of the nuking of Japan may not have been the ideal analogy but her overall argument is valid. The US was faced with an implacable foe against which it was forced to wage savage total war until it agreed to cease brutalizing the world.

    Quote
    I suppose what you mean by that is terrorism for aggression has a technical legal definition whose gravity surpasses the lesser crime of terror. If the US truly desired to put Jihadism to sleep thermonuclearly as Wafa suggests, it would have to inform the House of Saud that the game is up because it is from the Hijaz that most of the 9/11 attackers came. Not a single Afghan.


    MAB The non-Muslim world has been attacked by jihadists from accross the Ummah - a supranational entity which existed before the west drew lines on maps.

    Quote
    But steady now, the House of Saud is a key regional ally. They might be culpable for proliferating the contagion of Wahhabism by which the formerly Sufi nations of Islam are infected,


    MAB, the only notable difference between "Wahaabist" Saudi Arabia and what you refer to as "the former Sufi nations of Islam" is that the "Wahaabists" have actively sought to supress sufism on doctrinal grounds. The Ottoman Empire, which tolerated and patronized Sufis, was in all crucial areas as "wahaabist" as Saudi Arabia. Indeed, Sufis like the bektashi, mentored christian boys stolen from their families by the Ottoman state and brainwashed them to become the fanatical janissary shock troops.

    The mosque: the most epic display of collective douchbaggery, arrogance and delusion
  • Re: Wafa Sultan : Speak harshly and carry a stick
     Reply #54 - May 17, 2011, 06:42 AM

    .
  • Re: Wafa Sultan : Speak harshly and carry a stick
     Reply #55 - May 17, 2011, 07:53 PM

    An article which is kinda related to this:

    Quote
    On the morning of September 11, 2001, a Saudi pilot trained to fly in the US slammed a Boeing 757 jetliner into the Pentagon, killing more than 180 people.

    Less than a decade later, with the Middle East in a state of upheaval and following the recent arrest of a Saudi college student on bomb charges, the Pentagon is planning to bring dozens of Saudis to the US to train them to fly - and to kill.


    Quote
    Three of the many who joined the chorus against building an Islamic cultural centre two blocks from where seven Saudi terrorists helped to kill more than 2,700 people were congressman Mike Simpson and senators Jim Risch and Mike Crapo, all from Idaho.

    "I do not believe the construction of this Islamic centre so near to Ground Zero is proper," insisted Crapo.

    "This construction proposal is proving highly divisive to Americans across the political spectrum who are still seeking to recover fully from the emotional, economic and social scars caused by the terrorist attacks."

    Simpson echoed those sentiments, stating: "I think building a mosque at Ground Zero is inappropriate and insensitive."

    While Risch put his feelings this way: "Considering what occurred at Ground Zero in New York City I completely sympathise with those who object to a mosque being built in that area."

    All three Idaho politicians, however, have come out in favour of hosting hundreds of Saudi military personnel and their families at a US air force base in Idaho where they will be trained by US air force personnel to fly advanced fighter aircraft and learn the fundamentals of aerial combat.


    Full article:

    http://english.aljazeera.net/indepth/features/2011/03/2011316131230188238.html


    I hope the US and other nations realise that the Saudis might be an ally for now (short term) but long-term wise it will do more harm than good. You'd have thought the world learnt its lesson about how crazy these salafi jihadis are after the siege on Mecca in '79 but no they had to fund them with billions of $, weapons and their jihadist narrative. There are those who’ll say “we never knew what would happen” but the likes of Abdullah Azzam made their intentions quite clear even when touring the US

    They do say you reap what you sow whistling2
  • Re: Wafa Sultan : Speak harshly and carry a stick
     Reply #56 - May 18, 2011, 06:18 AM

    .
  • Re: Wafa Sultan : Speak harshly and carry a stick
     Reply #57 - May 18, 2011, 11:36 AM

    The Left is already full up and allied with bigots.




    Can you prove that statement or?

    I totally agree with Aphrodite regarding Wafa Sultan.

    Its one thing to become Ex-Muslim, but that doesn't mean you automatically have to become a right-wing zealot which condones Zionism and Western hegemony. Like many of those known Ex-Muslims are (except Maryam Namazie and the CEMB-people). But Mark Gabriel, Ayan Hirsi Ali, Wafa Sultan and that Ex-Hamas guy all are in reality spokespeople for Neo-Conservatives and Christian Fundamentalists which are fond of Huntingtons silly theory: http://www.thenation.com/article/clash-ignorance

    "Beauty is truth, truth beauty," - that is all
            Ye know on earth, and all ye need to know.

    - John Keats
  • Re: Wafa Sultan : Speak harshly and carry a stick
     Reply #58 - May 18, 2011, 11:43 AM

    I take the word bigot as a compliment these days. It's a fucking endorsement coming from the craven, panicking, simpering lefty clowns who normally throw it in mid-whine, like it's the most potent put down they could muster. Little wonder anyone with balls has been driven from the Left.


    Have you heard about George Orwell? Maybe you should look into what that guy wrote before you spew out your generalizations and typical right-wing rhetorics. There are strong anti-religious sentiments in the Left. The (European) Left is well-known for its "hatred" for religion.

    Seems like some Ex-Muslims thinks its cool to choose pest (right-wing zealots) instead of cholera (Islam/religion). The ironic part is their hypocrisy. The same people will say something positive about Christianity and Western imperialism, but will behave all crazy when some politicians from the Left say something positive about Muslims.

    "Beauty is truth, truth beauty," - that is all
            Ye know on earth, and all ye need to know.

    - John Keats
  • Re: Wafa Sultan : Speak harshly and carry a stick
     Reply #59 - May 18, 2011, 12:11 PM

    But Mark Gabriel, Ayan Hirsi Ali, Wafa Sultan and that Ex-Hamas guy all are in reality spokespeople for Neo-Conservatives and Christian Fundamentalists

    Hmmm...       How are you doing Al-Ma`arri ??  

    Ayan Hirsi Ali,   is a   Christian Fundamentalists ?  what did she write in support of Christianity ??

    and where did that Guy Pashtun go??

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
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