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 Topic: can islam be prevented from vanquishing civilization ?

 (Read 5619 times)
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  • Re: can islam be prevented from vanquishing civilization ?
     Reply #30 - June 04, 2011, 04:01 PM
    Let me try a different way.

    Do you think all Muslims put an equal amount of faith in any given theistic proposition?
    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Re: can islam be prevented from vanquishing civilization ?
     Reply #31 - June 04, 2011, 04:03 PM
    Equal to each other, you mean? No.
  • Re: can islam be prevented from vanquishing civilization ?
     Reply #32 - June 04, 2011, 04:05 PM
    Do you think this is an example of how there are degrees of faith?
    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Re: can islam be prevented from vanquishing civilization ?
     Reply #33 - June 04, 2011, 04:15 PM
    As I've just looked up 'degree' and it is specified in most online dictionaries as referring to, a position in a series, and not only in continuums, I will say - yes.
  • Re: can islam be prevented from vanquishing civilization ?
     Reply #34 - June 04, 2011, 04:18 PM
    Do you think the amount of faith a Muslim has in any given theistic proposition varies by degrees throughout their lifetime?
    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Re: can islam be prevented from vanquishing civilization ?
     Reply #35 - June 04, 2011, 04:22 PM
    Are we still using the definition of faith I outlined above?  Huh?

    If yes, quite probably. If no, please define 'faith'.
  • Re: can islam be prevented from vanquishing civilization ?
     Reply #36 - June 04, 2011, 04:28 PM
    In this context, lets say faith is the belief that a proposition is true, not necessarily with proof.
    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Re: can islam be prevented from vanquishing civilization ?
     Reply #37 - June 04, 2011, 04:32 PM
    And you're asking whether a Muslim's faith can intensify or diminish? Sure.
  • Re: can islam be prevented from vanquishing civilization ?
     Reply #38 - June 04, 2011, 04:33 PM
    Given that the amount of faith in any given proposition can vary by degrees from person to person, and that the amount of faith a person has in any given proposition can vary by degrees throughout their lifetime, would you say that there are degrees of faith?
    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Re: can islam be prevented from vanquishing civilization ?
     Reply #39 - June 04, 2011, 04:38 PM
    Didn't I already answer 'yes'?

    Well, yes.
  • Re: can islam be prevented from vanquishing civilization ?
     Reply #40 - June 04, 2011, 04:39 PM
    No further questions.
    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Re: can islam be prevented from vanquishing civilization ?
     Reply #41 - June 04, 2011, 04:41 PM
    And I was just beginning to get into that. :(
  • Re: can islam be prevented from vanquishing civilization ?
     Reply #42 - June 04, 2011, 04:47 PM
    Well, I simply disagree with the idea that there are no degrees of faith. And we agree, there are degrees of faith.
    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Re: can islam be prevented from vanquishing civilization ?
     Reply #43 - June 04, 2011, 04:51 PM
    Quote
    They cannot understand why the infidels have a way higher standard of living despite eating pork, not covering women etc.

     Nope, they say that Allah is giving them the chance of a good life now coz they will be punished for eternity in the afterlife Cheesy
    I'm open for debate (of why we should re-/embrace Islam), but I will no longer participate in this forum. Message me if you need anything. Good luck and may you all find your way... again...
  • Re: can islam be prevented from vanquishing civilization ?
     Reply #44 - June 04, 2011, 05:18 PM
    At Ishina and Prince:
     questions2 Run for the hills jawdrop

    Wow... now I feel like I don't have a brain...  Cheesy
    I'm open for debate (of why we should re-/embrace Islam), but I will no longer participate in this forum. Message me if you need anything. Good luck and may you all find your way... again...
  • Re: can islam be prevented from vanquishing civilization ?
     Reply #45 - June 04, 2011, 06:15 PM
    Having a brain is much over-rated.




    So I tell myself when I can remember what a brain is.
  • Re: can islam be prevented from vanquishing civilization ?
     Reply #46 - June 04, 2011, 06:43 PM
    Quote from: Ishina on June 04, 2011, 04:47 PM
    Well, I simply disagree with the idea that there are no degrees of faith. And we agree, there are degrees of faith.


    I think it is important to bear in mind how faith is being measured here. My point about the degrees of faith was in relation to the absolute truth, and in this regard there can be no degrees, a belief is either true or not, the very idea of different degrees of distance from the truth makes no sense because we can only know how far a belief is from the truth if we know the truth - seeing as we don't, we can't have a discussion on distance, we can only speak of truth and not-truth.

    This is not to say that perhaps degrees cannot be measured in other instances. As in my post above, I stated that making naturalistic assumptions as opposed to religious ones made far more sense in dealing with the world because it was far more useful - thus perhaps it is possible to have degrees of faith in relation to what is useful. Your discussion above with Prince about the intensity of faith a religious person may feel is perhaps another marker of degrees of faith because it is measured in emotional terms, it is faith in relation to the emotional experience of a person.
    I do not know whether such continuums exist or if positing these degrees makes sense but it is entirely possible there are degrees of faith. The only place where it is not possible is in relation to the truth, because we have no way of measuring it.
    At evening, casual flocks of pigeons make
    Ambiguous undulations as they sink,
    Downward to darkness, on extended wings. - Stevens
  • Re: can islam be prevented from vanquishing civilization ?
     Reply #47 - June 04, 2011, 09:41 PM
    Quote from: luftazure on June 04, 2011, 05:18 PM
    At Ishina and Prince:
     questions2 Run for the hills jawdrop

    Wow... now I feel like I don't have a brain...  Cheesy


    Not Really, you are just to lazy to read :p Smiley
    "I'm standing here like an asshole holding my Charles Dickens"

    "No theory,No ready made system,no book that has ever been written to save the world. i cleave to no system.."-Bakunin
  • Re: can islam be prevented from vanquishing civilization ?
     Reply #48 - June 05, 2011, 10:44 AM
    Quote from: z10 on June 04, 2011, 06:43 PM
    I think it is important to bear in mind how faith is being measured here.

    I presume by 'eliminating Faith and Dogma', Klingshcor meant where they necessitate and perpetuate each other. As in, where harmful effects manifest as a consequence of that relationship.

    Quote from: z10 on June 04, 2011, 06:43 PM
    My point about the degrees of faith was in relation to the absolute truth, and in this regard there can be no degrees, a belief is either true or not, the very idea of different degrees of distance from the truth makes no sense because we can only know how far a belief is from the truth if we know the truth - seeing as we don't, we can't have a discussion on distance, we can only speak of truth and not-truth.

    Isn't faith a phenomenon that is independent of truth?

    Quote from: z10 on June 04, 2011, 06:43 PM
    This is not to say that perhaps degrees cannot be measured in other instances. As in my post above, I stated that making naturalistic assumptions as opposed to religious ones made far more sense in dealing with the world because it was far more useful - thus perhaps it is possible to have degrees of faith in relation to what is useful. Your discussion above with Prince about the intensity of faith a religious person may feel is perhaps another marker of degrees of faith because it is measured in emotional terms, it is faith in relation to the emotional experience of a person.

    What is faith if not a thing experienced and perpetuated by an individual?
    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Re: can islam be prevented from vanquishing civilization ?
     Reply #49 - June 05, 2011, 11:04 AM
    Quote from: Ishina on June 05, 2011, 10:44 AM

    Isn't faith a phenomenon that is independent of truth?


     
    Generally speaking very much so!

    Quote from: Ishina on June 05, 2011, 10:44 AM
    What is faith if not a thing experienced and perpetuated by an individual?


    Indeed!


    The World is my country, all mankind are my brethren, and to do good is my religion.
                                   Thomas Paine

    Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored !- Aldous Huxley
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