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 Topic: Imam Al Ghazali

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  • Imam Al Ghazali
     OP - June 14, 2011, 11:07 PM
    I've heard this character raised many times by my islamic indoctrinator, and well he seems like quite an interesting piece of work. I want to know more about him but not through the generic ways of finding out, eg "sheikh google" Cheesy or the muslim sites that are bound to be biased.

    Hopefully you'll know who Imam Al Ghazali is/was (i don't even know if he's alive or not Huh?) and what your personal views are about him.

    What i've heard, but unsure of it's validity so pardon any incorrections. He went through a similar ordeal of questioning his faith, and he searched and researched to find out the truth, he had everything in life (sounds like a dawahganda story) he is/was intellectual, wise, knowledgeable, socialable, pious etc. But he reached a point in his life where he felt he was missing something or had got to a point in his life where he had achieved everything he could aspire to achieve, and he felt there was a need for something consistently eternal in his life; God.

    So, when he ultimately found the truth (obviously Islam Roll Eyes) he wrote a book about his life and his struggle to get to this truth.

    • Have any of you read this book of his?
    • Is he genuinely an intriguing character?
    • Is his book any good?
    • what are the ratings/reviews?
    • what do you think of Imam Al Ghazali?

    Clearly this topic is open to discussion, but i genuinely want to learn more about him for my own personal quest, help me oh fellow Cembers

     Smiley
  • Re: Imam Al Ghazali
     Reply #1 - June 14, 2011, 11:24 PM
    He was a douchebag if you ask me - to put it mildly. But Ibn Taymiyyah was worser.



    "Beauty is truth, truth beauty," - that is all
            Ye know on earth, and all ye need to know.

    - John Keats
  • Re: Imam Al Ghazali
     Reply #2 - June 14, 2011, 11:29 PM
    Quote from: Al-Ma`arri on June 14, 2011, 11:24 PM
    He was a douchebag if you ask me - to put it mildly. But Ibn Taymiyyah was worser.




    Was? meaning he's dead? why was he a douchebag? i need explanations Al Ma'arri 001_tongue

    and whose Ibn Taymiyyah Huh?
  • Re: Imam Al Ghazali
     Reply #3 - June 14, 2011, 11:38 PM
    Yeah he is dead. He lived in the 11th century. But people (especially "Sufi-inclined" Muslims) still "jerks off" to his stuff today.

    His attacks on philosophers like Ibn Sina and Al Farabi shows that he was pretty fond of dogmatic and traditionalist approach to Islam.  There is a lot to say about him. But the main issue that should raised is how destructive his thoughts has been in the Muslim world. He is very known in the Muslim world today. He is the guy who killed the little rationalism (Neoplatonism) that could have evolved in the Muslim world. Al Ghazali declared "war" on neoplatonism in Islamic philosophy (falasifa) and theology.

    Ibn Taymiyyah is another nutjob which is loved by some Muslims - particulary those "beardos" called Salafis. If Al Ghazali is a douchebag, Ibn Taymiyyah is the King of Douchebags. And with that i mean the fact that this guy criticized Al Ghazali (!). Haha.

    "Beauty is truth, truth beauty," - that is all
            Ye know on earth, and all ye need to know.

    - John Keats
  • Re: Imam Al Ghazali
     Reply #4 - June 14, 2011, 11:41 PM
    Wow that does sound interesting. I was hoping he was an influential yet rationally sane character, clearly not.

     Afro

    thanks for the info, what's more to know matey? Smiley
  • Re: Imam Al Ghazali
     Reply #5 - June 14, 2011, 11:45 PM
    I know that what you are saying is a commonly held view al-ma'arri but I think Ghazali would have seen the issue a different way.
    He left dogmatic, orthodox Islam himself and spend 12 years as an agnostic before declaring himself a sufi. He is anything but a dogmatist.

    In fact, his attack on neoplatonism is exactly the same attack that Descartes made upon rationalists in Christendom 400 years later. It is the idea that rationalism itself, when unquestioned, can be a dogma as well. He wanted to free himself from every dogma and hence, I think, was following in the proud tradition of Socrates and every sceptic since. Far from being a douche, I would think he is one of the greatest minds that ever lived.

    it goes without saying of course that it is not Ghazali's fault that muslims misunderstand him.
    At evening, casual flocks of pigeons make
    Ambiguous undulations as they sink,
    Downward to darkness, on extended wings. - Stevens
  • Re: Imam Al Ghazali
     Reply #6 - June 14, 2011, 11:52 PM
    Now that's what i've been told z10, i geniunely thought he was still alive cause by the looks of it my islamic indoctrinator definitely refers to him in the present tense. Hence the confusion.

    So when he was an agnostic, what was his train of thought and how did his journey undertake?

     Geek
  • Re: Imam Al Ghazali
     Reply #7 - June 15, 2011, 12:01 AM
    I think Ghazali became agnostic because he had an existential crisis. He realised that he couldn't prove his faith in Islam rationally, and even worse, (like most philosophers) realised that he could not prove anything rationally, rationality was incapable of providing any truth (which is quite correct).
    He then decided that instead of trying to rationally reach the truth, he will instead try to experience the truth. Hence, he became a sufi and attempted to experience God, to sidestep all logic and to directly drink from the source, so to speak. He says that he succeeded but of course when somebody undertakes such a mystical journey it is impossible for those of us that didn't experience what he did to know whether what he experienced was the truth or not. All we can do is either experience it for ourselves or decline to pass judgement.
    At evening, casual flocks of pigeons make
    Ambiguous undulations as they sink,
    Downward to darkness, on extended wings. - Stevens
  • Re: Imam Al Ghazali
     Reply #8 - June 15, 2011, 12:38 AM
    As far as I remember Ibn Taymiyyah wasn't a complete asshole.  He was orthodox but his version of orthodoxy wasn't exclusionary or hugely dogmatic.  He conversed and had various friends and aquantances and was accepting of various strains of faith and other religions.  His idea of takfir was used in response to a specific historical problem of invaders who "took advantage" of Islam's rule of not killing Muslims.   It was forgotten afterwards even when dealing with other strands of Islam and heretical versions.  It gets so much love from Salafis because they  can use it like a razor blade to cut out any dissent and by jihadis originally to bomb and kills other Muslims who didn't prescribe to their version.

    I haven't had time to read his response to the Greek philosophers yet.   
    So once again I'm left with the classic Irish man's dilemma, do I eat the potato or do I let it ferment so I can drink it later?
    My political philosophy below
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwGat4i8pJI&feature=g-vrec
    Just kidding, here are some true heros
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBTgvK6LQqA
  • Re: Imam Al Ghazali
     Reply #9 - June 15, 2011, 12:44 AM
    Thanks guys you've given me a lot of food for thought.

     Afro

    keep the informative posts coming!
  • Re: Imam Al Ghazali
     Reply #10 - June 15, 2011, 01:15 AM
    http://ar.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D8%A3%D8%A8%D9%88_%D8%AD%D8%A7%D9%85%D8%AF_%D9%85%D8%AD%D9%85%D8%AF_%D8%A8%D9%86_%D9%85%D8%AD%D9%85%D8%AF_%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%BA%D8%B2%D8%A7%D9%84%D9%8A
    [13:36] <Fimbles> anything above 7 inches
    [13:37] <Fimbles> is wacko
    [13:37] <Fimbles> see
    [13:37] <Fimbles> you think i'd enjoy anything above 7 inches up my arse?
  • Re: Imam Al Ghazali
     Reply #11 - June 15, 2011, 08:31 PM
    Come on guys!  keep this place alive, there's so much i wana know about this dude.

     17

    Geek
  • Re: Imam Al Ghazali
     Reply #12 - June 15, 2011, 09:50 PM
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2S4LrnzqocU
    At evening, casual flocks of pigeons make
    Ambiguous undulations as they sink,
    Downward to darkness, on extended wings. - Stevens
  • Re: Imam Al Ghazali
     Reply #13 - June 16, 2011, 01:24 AM
    I feel kinda proud that i went out and hepled myself .. hehehe dance

    silly me ..

    here's a thread i found for myself, mentioning and discussing the topic i have been trying ever so hard to ignite here.

    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=7205.0

    I guess reading from what i have gathered from this forum, Imam Al Ghazali was a only a great character for the muslims only and that i don't have much to learn from him. Unfortunately he doesn't to seem to have met my high expectations of him. I was hoping he was, you know one of those unusually rational, skeptical philosophers who believe in a god? yeah that.
  • Re: Imam Al Ghazali
     Reply #14 - June 16, 2011, 04:51 AM
    Zaiba who is the lady in your avatar?


    The World is my country, all mankind are my brethren, and to do good is my religion.
                                   Thomas Paine

    Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored !- Aldous Huxley
  • Re: Imam Al Ghazali
     Reply #15 - June 16, 2011, 10:41 AM
    Quote from: hypocrucifier on June 16, 2011, 04:51 AM
    Zaiba who is the lady in your avatar?


    me?
  • Re: Imam Al Ghazali
     Reply #16 - June 16, 2011, 10:33 PM
    I don't know why your avatar reminded me of this lady.



    Hey! why the question mark after me? Not sure of yourself?rofl

                                                     
                                                                  ANYWAY   IT'S
                                                                                                                                                   


    The World is my country, all mankind are my brethren, and to do good is my religion.
                                   Thomas Paine

    Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored !- Aldous Huxley
  • Re: Imam Al Ghazali
     Reply #17 - June 16, 2011, 11:06 PM
    WTF?! who is she?! and why would i remind you of her.  finmad
  • Re: Imam Al Ghazali
     Reply #18 - June 16, 2011, 11:18 PM
    Hey! cool it! Focus on the chin and the nose [to some extent] LOL!
    She was a famous theater personality!
    But I complimented your avatar! Cry Cry


    The World is my country, all mankind are my brethren, and to do good is my religion.
                                   Thomas Paine

    Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored !- Aldous Huxley
  • Re: Imam Al Ghazali
     Reply #19 - June 16, 2011, 11:25 PM
    I see no resemblance finmad you making me mad. I know i'm fat but jheeze don't insult me like that sad
  • Re: Imam Al Ghazali
     Reply #20 - June 16, 2011, 11:32 PM

    You don't look anything like that person zaiba, and hypocrucifier is a fucking prick.

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Imam Al Ghazali
     Reply #21 - June 16, 2011, 11:39 PM
    na i think he's right, i am fat and ugly sad
  • Re: Imam Al Ghazali
     Reply #22 - June 16, 2011, 11:49 PM
    Quote from: Zaiba on June 16, 2011, 11:39 PM
    na i think he's right, i am fat and ugly sad


    OMFG! so that's what enraged you? Come on now if i thought you were fat and ugly why on earth would I say you were awesome?
    I had thought that the lady in her younger days would have borne some resemblance to you. Honestly the thought of 'fat' and 'ugly' had never crossed my mind! Embarrassed

    No offense was intended at all! I offer an unconditional apology!


    The World is my country, all mankind are my brethren, and to do good is my religion.
                                   Thomas Paine

    Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored !- Aldous Huxley
  • Re: Imam Al Ghazali
     Reply #23 - June 16, 2011, 11:55 PM
    Quote from: billy on June 16, 2011, 11:32 PM
    You don't look anything like that person zaiba, and hypocrucifier is a fucking prick.




    Peace brother!  See above!


    The World is my country, all mankind are my brethren, and to do good is my religion.
                                   Thomas Paine

    Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored !- Aldous Huxley
  • Re: Imam Al Ghazali
     Reply #24 - June 16, 2011, 11:57 PM

    Quote from: hypocrucifier on June 16, 2011, 11:49 PM
    OMFG! so that's what enraged you? Come on now if i thought you were fat and ugly why on earth would I say you were awesome?
    I had thought that the lady in her younger days would have borne some resemblance to you. Honestly the thought of 'fat' and 'ugly' had never crossed my mind! Embarrassed

    No offense was intended at all! I offer an unconditional apology!


    it's okay Afro Hypo to be honest your name does remind me of a hippo too  whistling2
  • Re: Imam Al Ghazali
     Reply #25 - June 17, 2011, 12:00 AM
    Quote from: hypocrucifier on June 16, 2011, 11:55 PM
    Peace brother!  See above!


    Yeah, peace to you too dude.

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Imam Al Ghazali
     Reply #26 - June 17, 2011, 12:01 AM
     
    Quote from: Zaiba on June 16, 2011, 11:57 PM
    it's okay Afro Hypo to be honest your name does remind me of a hippo too  whistling2




    Cheesy Cheesy Lmao Even-stevens?


    The World is my country, all mankind are my brethren, and to do good is my religion.
                                   Thomas Paine

    Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored !- Aldous Huxley
  • Re: Imam Al Ghazali
     Reply #27 - June 17, 2011, 12:06 AM
    Quote from: billy on June 17, 2011, 12:00 AM
    Yeah, peace to you too dude.




    rofl

    I feel as if Billy's my own personal bouncer! 001_tongue

    Quote from: hypocrucifier on June 17, 2011, 12:01 AM


    Cheesy Cheesy Lmao Even-stevens?


    Umm what does that mean? truce? then yes yes
  • Re: Imam Al Ghazali
     Reply #28 - June 17, 2011, 12:09 AM
    See! peace can be had without religion! dance dance


    The World is my country, all mankind are my brethren, and to do good is my religion.
                                   Thomas Paine

    Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored !- Aldous Huxley
  • Re: Imam Al Ghazali
     Reply #29 - June 17, 2011, 12:11 AM
    Quote
    See! peace can be had without religion!  dance dance


    More likely than religion could ever do so in it's life span.  cool2
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