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 Topic: The poverty of the new atheism by Scott Stephens

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  • The poverty of the new atheism by Scott Stephens
     OP - August 30, 2011, 05:12 PM

    What made the atheist tradition proper so potent was its devotion to the tasks of flushing out the myriad idols, often unperceived, that clutter human society, and dismantling all the malign political, economic and sexual uses which those gods were made to serve.

    But there was another aspect of this tradition - frequently overlooked and now almost forgotten - that immunized it against the excesses and indiscretions which will almost certainly consign the "New Atheism" to the status of an early twenty-first century fad, like the recent spate of Hollywood remakes.

    There seems to have been an innate sense among atheists that the Promethean quest to topple the gods demands a certain seriousness and humility of any who would undertake it. Hence those atheists worthy of the name often adopted austere, chastened, almost ascetic forms of life - one thinks especially of Nietzsche or Beckett, or even the iconic Lord Asriel of Phillip Pullman's His Dark Materials trilogy - precisely because our disavowed idolatrous attachment manifest in practices and habits and cloying indulgences, and not simply in beliefs (this was Karl Marx's great observation about the "theological" dimension of Capital).

    By comparison, the "New Atheists" look like sensationalist media-pimps: smugly self-assured, profligate, unphilosophical and brazenly ahistorical, whose immense popularity says rather more about the illiteracy and moral impoverishment of Western audiences than it does about the relative merits of their arguments.

    But is there not is a kind of implicit acknowledgement of inferiority in the tone so many of the "New Atheists" have adopted? The air of contemptuous flippancy reduces atheism to a form of light entertainment and petit bourgeois chic.

    In other words, this is not a "New Atheism" but rather an "Atheism Lite" (perhaps "Lites" would be a better designation for adherents to the "New Atheism," rather than Daniel Dennett's proposed "brights").

    Let me try to demonstrate the difference between "Atheism Lite" and atheism proper by means of a brief analysis of what is arguably the most powerful argument ever advanced for the eradication of religion: the introduction to Karl Marx's A Critique of Hegel's Philosophy of Right. Marx famously writes:

    "The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is the demand for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusions about their condition is a demand to give up a condition that requires illusion. The criticism of religion is therefore the germ of the criticism of the valley of tears whose halo is religion."

    His point is that religion acts as a veil draped across the cold severity and injustice of life, making our lives tolerable by supplying them with a kind of "illusory happiness." Hence, for Marx, religion is a palliative. But tear away the illusion, remove those narcotic fantasies to which people cling and from which they derive a sense of contentment, and they will be forced to seek out true happiness through justice and self-determination. And so he goes on:

    "The criticism of religion disillusions man so that he may think, act and fashion his own reality as a disillusioned man come to his senses; so that he may revolve around himself as his real sun. Religion is only the illusory sun which revolves around man as long as he does not revolve around himself."

    It is here that the great paradox of Marx's critique lies. The only way to effect change on earth is by waging war against heaven, that is, by abolishing religion and its every arcane form. In this way, Marx says, "the criticism of heaven is transformed into the criticism of earth."

    But Marx's critique of religion has an unexpected twist, a barb in the tail that implicates the "Lites" by exposing the deeper complicity concealed by their cynicism. For, to be "dis-illusioned" in Marx's sense is not heroically to free oneself from the shackles and blinders of religious ideology and thus to gaze freely upon the world as it truly is, as Dawkins and Harris and even Hitchens would suppose.

    Rather, to be "dis-illusioned" is to expose oneself to the anxiety of the bare, unadorned fact of one's existence, to live unaided beneath what Baudelaire called "the horrible burden of Time, which racks your shoulders and bows you downwards to the earth".

    In Capital, Marx demonstrated that the advent of capitalism itself had the effect of denuding the world by ripping off the shroud of religion and dissolving the communal and familial ties that bind. But the mechanistic world laid bare by industrial capitalism induced madness among those that prospered from the wealth it generated and among those that found themselves dispossessed of the fruits of their labour.

    Consequently, it is as if capitalism generated its own antibodies, a form of religion inherent to its processes of production, exchange and consumption that would guarantee its survival by palliating its devotees. Walter Benjamin developed this further, suggesting that "capitalism is probably the first instance of a cult that creates guilt, not atonement ... A vast sense of guilt that is unable to find relief seizes on the cult, not to atone for this guilt but to make it universal, to hammer it into the conscious mind."

    And yet even the atonement for guilt comes within the purview of capitalism. This religion now has its own acts of penance for one's economic debauchery in the form of tokenistic charity, delayed gratification and the production of "green" or "fair trade" commodities.


    The great irony of capitalism is that its progress has seen the corruption and fragmentation of morality and the decimation of institutional religion, but in their place persists the menagerie of pseudo-moralities and plaintive spiritualities (often in the form of so-called Western Buddhism or what Martin Amis calls "an intensified reverence for the planet") that somehow sustain, or perhaps lubricate, its global machinations.

    To paraphrase Marx, the abolition of these false moralities and neo-paganisms would constitute the demand for the rediscovery of authentic reason, integral morality and sustainable, virtuous forms of communal life. And here the "New Atheists" fall tragically short.

    By failing to pursue the critique of religion into the sanctum of global capitalism itself, by reducing discussion of morality to a vapid form of well-being and personal security, and by failing to advocate alternate forms of virtuous community - all in the name of "reason" - they end up providing the pathologies of capitalism with a veneer of "commonsense" rationality.

    However noble the goals of the "New Atheism" may be, armed with nought but an impoverished form of commonsense rationality (of which Sam Harris's The Moral Landscape and the rather unwieldy The Australian Book of Atheism are the most opprobrious examples I've yet seen - but more on these books in a later piece) it is simply not up to the task of confronting the idols and evils of our time. Ayaan Hirsi Ali has recognized as much and has thus proposed - though not unproblematically - an alliance between atheism and Catholic Christianity.


    Christianity and atheism have been intertwined from the very beginning, such that their relationship is rather like two sides of a Moebius strip - follow one side far enough and you suddenly find yourself on the other. It was, after all, the first Christians that ripped the mouldering shroud of paganism off the cultures of late-antiquity by their scandalous declaration that God raised Jesus from death, thereby redefining what it might mean for God to be "God" in the first place. The resurrection of Jesus was thus the death of "God" and the destruction of the unjust and idolatrous politico-social edifice constructed around him.

    In Atheist Delusions, David Bentley Hart has described the original Christian revolution in terms of the stripping bare of the pagan life-world with its pantheon of gods, demigods and spirits who guaranteed the proper order of things, established political authority and provided life with meaning.

    "In such a world, the gospel was an outrage, and it was perfectly reasonable for its cultured despisers to describe its apostles as 'atheists'. Christians were ... enemies of society, impious, subversive, and irrational; and it was no more than civic prudence to detest them for refusing to honor the gods of their ancestors, for scorning the common good, and for advancing the grotesque and shameful claim that all gods and spirits had been made subject to a crucified criminal from Galilee ... This was far worse than mere irreverence; it was pure and misanthropic perversity; it was anarchy."

    By continuing to ignore its debt to the Christian intellectual and moral revolution, and by severing itself from the profoundest insights of its own tradition, the "New Atheism" will find it impossible to avoid becoming a fad, a pseudo-intellectual trifle.




    very concerning........

    "A belief in hell and the knowledge that every ambition is doomed to frustration at the hands of a skeleton have never prevented the majority of human beings from behaving as though death were no more than an unfounded rumour."
    Aldous Huxley
  • Re: The poverty of the new atheism by Scott Stephens
     Reply #1 - August 31, 2011, 12:18 AM

    tl dr
  • Re: The poverty of the new atheism by Scott Stephens
     Reply #2 - August 31, 2011, 12:26 AM

    Prince Spinoza - Baruch spinoza is turning in his grave . please change your profile name

    "A belief in hell and the knowledge that every ambition is doomed to frustration at the hands of a skeleton have never prevented the majority of human beings from behaving as though death were no more than an unfounded rumour."
    Aldous Huxley
  • Re: The poverty of the new atheism by Scott Stephens
     Reply #3 - August 31, 2011, 12:51 AM

    who dat
  • Re: The poverty of the new atheism by Scott Stephens
     Reply #4 - August 31, 2011, 03:49 AM

    While it is true that many "new atheists" have an amateur grasp of theology, morality and philosophy in general, I don't think it is necessary for one to critique every single form of idolatry (whether individual or social) to be considered a "real atheist".

    At evening, casual flocks of pigeons make
    Ambiguous undulations as they sink,
    Downward to darkness, on extended wings. - Stevens
  • Re: The poverty of the new atheism by Scott Stephens
     Reply #5 - August 31, 2011, 04:58 AM

    This guy criticizes the "idolatry" of capitalism while worshipping Marx. Ironic.
  • Re: The poverty of the new atheism by Scott Stephens
     Reply #6 - August 31, 2011, 05:03 AM

    What made the atheist tradition proper so potent was its devotion to the tasks of flushing out the myriad idols, often unperceived, that clutter human society, and dismantling all the malign political, economic and sexual uses which those gods were made to serve.

    But there was another aspect of this tradition - frequently overlooked and now almost forgotten - that immunized it against the excesses and indiscretions which will almost certainly consign the "New Atheism" to the status of an early twenty-first century fad, like the recent spate of Hollywood remakes.

    There seems to have been an innate sense among atheists that the Promethean quest to topple the gods demands a certain seriousness and humility of any who would undertake it. Hence those atheists worthy of the name often adopted austere, chastened, almost ascetic forms of life - one thinks especially of Nietzsche or Beckett, or even the iconic Lord Asriel of Phillip Pullman's His Dark Materials trilogy - precisely because our disavowed idolatrous attachment manifest in practices and habits and cloying indulgences, and not simply in beliefs (this was Karl Marx's great observation about the "theological" dimension of Capital).

    By comparison, the "New Atheists" look like sensationalist media-pimps: smugly self-assured, profligate, unphilosophical and brazenly ahistorical, whose immense popularity says rather more about the illiteracy and moral impoverishment of Western audiences than it does about the relative merits of their arguments.

    But is there not is a kind of implicit acknowledgement of inferiority in the tone so many of the "New Atheists" have adopted? The air of contemptuous flippancy reduces atheism to a form of light entertainment and petit bourgeois chic.

    In other words, this is not a "New Atheism" but rather an "Atheism Lite" (perhaps "Lites" would be a better designation for adherents to the "New Atheism," rather than Daniel Dennett's proposed "brights").

    Let me try to demonstrate the difference between "Atheism Lite" and atheism proper by means of a brief analysis of what is arguably the most powerful argument ever advanced for the eradication of religion: the introduction to Karl Marx's A Critique of Hegel's Philosophy of Right. Marx famously writes:

    "The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is the demand for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusions about their condition is a demand to give up a condition that requires illusion. The criticism of religion is therefore the germ of the criticism of the valley of tears whose halo is religion."

    His point is that religion acts as a veil draped across the cold severity and injustice of life, making our lives tolerable by supplying them with a kind of "illusory happiness." Hence, for Marx, religion is a palliative. But tear away the illusion, remove those narcotic fantasies to which people cling and from which they derive a sense of contentment, and they will be forced to seek out true happiness through justice and self-determination. And so he goes on:

    "The criticism of religion disillusions man so that he may think, act and fashion his own reality as a disillusioned man come to his senses; so that he may revolve around himself as his real sun. Religion is only the illusory sun which revolves around man as long as he does not revolve around himself."

    It is here that the great paradox of Marx's critique lies. The only way to effect change on earth is by waging war against heaven, that is, by abolishing religion and its every arcane form. In this way, Marx says, "the criticism of heaven is transformed into the criticism of earth."

    But Marx's critique of religion has an unexpected twist, a barb in the tail that implicates the "Lites" by exposing the deeper complicity concealed by their cynicism. For, to be "dis-illusioned" in Marx's sense is not heroically to free oneself from the shackles and blinders of religious ideology and thus to gaze freely upon the world as it truly is, as Dawkins and Harris and even Hitchens would suppose.

    Rather, to be "dis-illusioned" is to expose oneself to the anxiety of the bare, unadorned fact of one's existence, to live unaided beneath what Baudelaire called "the horrible burden of Time, which racks your shoulders and bows you downwards to the earth".

    In Capital, Marx demonstrated that the advent of capitalism itself had the effect of denuding the world by ripping off the shroud of religion and dissolving the communal and familial ties that bind. But the mechanistic world laid bare by industrial capitalism induced madness among those that prospered from the wealth it generated and among those that found themselves dispossessed of the fruits of their labour.

    Consequently, it is as if capitalism generated its own antibodies, a form of religion inherent to its processes of production, exchange and consumption that would guarantee its survival by palliating its devotees. Walter Benjamin developed this further, suggesting that "capitalism is probably the first instance of a cult that creates guilt, not atonement ... A vast sense of guilt that is unable to find relief seizes on the cult, not to atone for this guilt but to make it universal, to hammer it into the conscious mind."

    And yet even the atonement for guilt comes within the purview of capitalism. This religion now has its own acts of penance for one's economic debauchery in the form of tokenistic charity, delayed gratification and the production of "green" or "fair trade" commodities.


    The great irony of capitalism is that its progress has seen the corruption and fragmentation of morality and the decimation of institutional religion, but in their place persists the menagerie of pseudo-moralities and plaintive spiritualities (often in the form of so-called Western Buddhism or what Martin Amis calls "an intensified reverence for the planet") that somehow sustain, or perhaps lubricate, its global machinations.

    To paraphrase Marx, the abolition of these false moralities and neo-paganisms would constitute the demand for the rediscovery of authentic reason, integral morality and sustainable, virtuous forms of communal life. And here the "New Atheists" fall tragically short.

    By failing to pursue the critique of religion into the sanctum of global capitalism itself, by reducing discussion of morality to a vapid form of well-being and personal security, and by failing to advocate alternate forms of virtuous community - all in the name of "reason" - they end up providing the pathologies of capitalism with a veneer of "commonsense" rationality.

    However noble the goals of the "New Atheism" may be, armed with nought but an impoverished form of commonsense rationality (of which Sam Harris's The Moral Landscape and the rather unwieldy The Australian Book of Atheism are the most opprobrious examples I've yet seen - but more on these books in a later piece) it is simply not up to the task of confronting the idols and evils of our time. Ayaan Hirsi Ali has recognized as much and has thus proposed - though not unproblematically - an alliance between atheism and Catholic Christianity.


    Christianity and atheism have been intertwined from the very beginning, such that their relationship is rather like two sides of a Moebius strip - follow one side far enough and you suddenly find yourself on the other. It was, after all, the first Christians that ripped the mouldering shroud of paganism off the cultures of late-antiquity by their scandalous declaration that God raised Jesus from death, thereby redefining what it might mean for God to be "God" in the first place. The resurrection of Jesus was thus the death of "God" and the destruction of the unjust and idolatrous politico-social edifice constructed around him.

    In Atheist Delusions, David Bentley Hart has described the original Christian revolution in terms of the stripping bare of the pagan life-world with its pantheon of gods, demigods and spirits who guaranteed the proper order of things, established political authority and provided life with meaning.

    "In such a world, the gospel was an outrage, and it was perfectly reasonable for its cultured despisers to describe its apostles as 'atheists'. Christians were ... enemies of society, impious, subversive, and irrational; and it was no more than civic prudence to detest them for refusing to honor the gods of their ancestors, for scorning the common good, and for advancing the grotesque and shameful claim that all gods and spirits had been made subject to a crucified criminal from Galilee ... This was far worse than mere irreverence; it was pure and misanthropic perversity; it was anarchy."

    By continuing to ignore its debt to the Christian intellectual and moral revolution, and by severing itself from the profoundest insights of its own tradition, the "New Atheism" will find it impossible to avoid becoming a fad, a pseudo-intellectual trifle.




    very concerning........


    you're wrong

    Formerly known as Iblis
  • Re: The poverty of the new atheism by Scott Stephens
     Reply #7 - August 31, 2011, 06:13 PM

    While it is true that many "new atheists" have an amateur grasp of theology, morality and philosophy in general, I don't think it is necessary for one to critique every single form of idolatry (whether individual or social) to be considered a "real atheist".


    this has nothing to with a amateur grasp of theology, morality, philosophy. The new atheists have no clue what atheism is. the new atheists are the new theists and there god is flashing symbols and billboards, the myths of capitalism. A true atheist like a pedantic scientist would trace all the straits of religion, all its tentacles and eliminate everything he finds formed from a myth or formed from a myth for a myth. The true atheist that have done this have had to get rid of everything and found themselves outside in the open nihilism, they looked for a way forward. The new atheists are like retards, making allot of noise but not knowing where the fuck they are - i can tell you where they are. In religions mental institutions 

    religion is a absolute philosophical meta-physical system which includes morality. if you cant understand its meta-physics and morality and why it was constructed in the first place then how the fuck can you fight against religion?


    "by reducing discussion of morality to a vapid form of well-being and personal security, and by failing to advocate alternate forms of virtuous community - all in the name of "reason" - they end up providing the pathologies of capitalism with a veneer of "commonsense" rationality"

    this is why new atheists are laughed at
    they want to brake down the old house because they don't like it but don't know how to rebuild a new one so they make do with the rubble left from the broken house and put together a abomination of architecture

    what a achievement lol

    "A belief in hell and the knowledge that every ambition is doomed to frustration at the hands of a skeleton have never prevented the majority of human beings from behaving as though death were no more than an unfounded rumour."
    Aldous Huxley
  • Re: The poverty of the new atheism by Scott Stephens
     Reply #8 - August 31, 2011, 06:37 PM

    this has nothing to with a amateur grasp of theology, morality, philosophy. The new atheists have no clue what atheism is. the new atheists are the new theists and there god is flashing symbols and billboards, the myths of capitalism. A true atheist like a pedantic scientist would trace all the straits of religion, all its tentacles and eliminate everything he finds formed from a myth or formed from a myth for a myth. The true atheist that have done this have had to get rid of everything and found themselves outside in the open nihilism, they looked for a way forward. The new atheists are like retards, making allot of noise but not knowing where the fuck they are - i can tell you where they are. In religions mental institutions 

    religion is a absolute philosophical meta-physical system which includes morality. if you cant understand its meta-physics and morality and why it was constructed in the first place then how the fuck can you fight against religion?


    "by reducing discussion of morality to a vapid form of well-being and personal security, and by failing to advocate alternate forms of virtuous community - all in the name of "reason" - they end up providing the pathologies of capitalism with a veneer of "commonsense" rationality"

    this is why new atheists are laughed at
    they want to brake down the old house because they don't like it but don't know how to rebuild a new one so they make do with the rubble left from the broken house and put together a abomination of architecture

    what a achievement lol


    You're wrong... accept it.
  • Re: The poverty of the new atheism by Scott Stephens
     Reply #9 - August 31, 2011, 06:51 PM


    yeah i will because some fuckhead called strangestdude who thinks his inner spirit is a little pussycat  told me i was wrong and that i should accept it. No wonder new atheism is a fad, care to give me a reason. strangestdud the article applies to you more then anyone, it touches upon issues of spiritualism within capitalism and how poor delusional monkeys such yourself have a need to find some sort of abstract myth to hold onto ergo replacing deism, i hope you don't call yourself a atheist  

    sorry i should correct this. holding onto a new myth initslf is not bad , it may be the answer to true atheism. Only strange-dude you seem to look for a myth that resembles the one you supposedly left, a all unifying transcendent sort of thing.

    "A belief in hell and the knowledge that every ambition is doomed to frustration at the hands of a skeleton have never prevented the majority of human beings from behaving as though death were no more than an unfounded rumour."
    Aldous Huxley
  • Re: The poverty of the new atheism by Scott Stephens
     Reply #10 - August 31, 2011, 06:55 PM

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gAYL5H46QnQ
  • Re: The poverty of the new atheism by Scott Stephens
     Reply #11 - August 31, 2011, 07:32 PM

    The new atheists have no clue what atheism is. the new atheists are the new theists and there god is flashing symbols and billboards, the myths of capitalism. A true atheist like a pedantic scientist would trace all the straits of religion, all its tentacles and eliminate everything he finds formed from a myth or formed from a myth for a myth. The true atheist that have done this have had to get rid of everything and found themselves outside in the open nihilism, they looked for a way forward.

    If you know of any group who subject their beliefs to such minute scrutiny, please point me to them. If they're Scottish, all the better.

    Quote
    this is why new atheists are laughed at
    they want to brake down the old house because they don't like it but don't know how to rebuild a new one so they make do with the rubble left from the broken house and put together a abomination of architecture

    Your complaint rather predates the New Athiests.
  • Re: The poverty of the new atheism by Scott Stephens
     Reply #12 - August 31, 2011, 07:53 PM

    On the contrary, as much as I appreciate Nietzsche and others, they come across as too po–faced. god and religion need the piss taken out of them. Righteously.
  • Re: The poverty of the new atheism by Scott Stephens
     Reply #13 - August 31, 2011, 08:39 PM

    The problem with the new atheists is that they're modernists; they still seek absolute truth. They've abandoned God and replaced him with science, and they want to force everyone into their point of view.

    Nietzsche nailed it with his parable of the madman. What a lot of people don't get is that when he proclaimed "God is dead" he didn't mean the literal God, he meant objective values. He was actually addressing the atheists.
  • Re: The poverty of the new atheism by Scott Stephens
     Reply #14 - August 31, 2011, 08:46 PM

    I think Trent Reznor said it best: “god is dead. And no–one cares.”
  • Re: The poverty of the new atheism by Scott Stephens
     Reply #15 - August 31, 2011, 08:49 PM

    Kodanshi your living in ethical a system that was given its sustenance and raised by riligoen , riligoen permeated every aspect of existence hence the name META-physics. Then capitalism came along and things went haywire and structure broke down completely as capitalism consumed everything into its system but thanks to the likes of   Nietzsche  and then Marx atheism remained pure until recently with the new atheist movement. do you hate Islam, Christianity?  what are they ? myths? all encompassing all involving systems? morality? , language and arranger of thoughts?.  Even before monotheism we had paganism, we are unaware of any time period where man was a true atheist hence a few minutes to think about the consequences of atheism and what is to be a atheist and how we can move on  . Logical conclusion of atheism is nihilism.    

    "After Buddha was dead, his shadow was still shown for centuries in a cave-a tremendous, gruesome shadow. God is dead; but given the way of men, there may still be caves for thousands of years in which his shadow will be shown. -And we-we still have to vanquish his shadow, too."

    the new atheists are reactionary's forever living in the shadow of riligoen, still mourning gods death. If they leave the churches and walk out, they would come to realize - we have to build again, all over again.

    "A belief in hell and the knowledge that every ambition is doomed to frustration at the hands of a skeleton have never prevented the majority of human beings from behaving as though death were no more than an unfounded rumour."
    Aldous Huxley
  • Re: The poverty of the new atheism by Scott Stephens
     Reply #16 - August 31, 2011, 08:50 PM

    The problem with the new atheists is that they're modernists; they still seek absolute truth. They've abandoned God and replaced him with science, and they want to force everyone into their point of view.

    Nietzsche nailed it with his parable of the madman. What a lot of people don't get is that when he proclaimed "God is dead" he didn't mean the literal God, he meant objective values. He was actually addressing the atheists.


    good post

    At evening, casual flocks of pigeons make
    Ambiguous undulations as they sink,
    Downward to darkness, on extended wings. - Stevens
  • Re: The poverty of the new atheism by Scott Stephens
     Reply #17 - August 31, 2011, 08:53 PM

    The problem with the new atheists is that they're modernists; they still seek absolute truth. They've abandoned God and replaced him with science, and they want to force everyone into their point of view.

    Nietzsche nailed it with his parable of the madman. What a lot of people don't get is that when he proclaimed "God is dead" he didn't mean the literal God, he meant objective values. He was actually addressing the atheists.



    yes...also he wasn't a arrogant prick like dawkins. He could of easily said that there is no god and left it at that but instead he chose to say that 'god is dead'. if a industry dies if affects everyone in drastic ways, when a relative dies the affects our felt long after, photos are still kept and names are still remembered. The new atheist are incredibly shallow and because they get allot of media attention i believe the they are causing irreversible damage. atheism is not simply refusing scripture

    "A belief in hell and the knowledge that every ambition is doomed to frustration at the hands of a skeleton have never prevented the majority of human beings from behaving as though death were no more than an unfounded rumour."
    Aldous Huxley
  • Re: The poverty of the new atheism by Scott Stephens
     Reply #18 - August 31, 2011, 08:55 PM

  • Re: The poverty of the new atheism by Scott Stephens
     Reply #19 - August 31, 2011, 08:55 PM

    Nietzsche wasn't an arrogant prick? Cheesy He wrote an essay called Why I am So Wise, an essay called Why I am So Clever, and another called Why I Write Such Good Books. Cheesy
  • Re: The poverty of the new atheism by Scott Stephens
     Reply #20 - August 31, 2011, 08:57 PM



    thanks that was a lough  Cheesy

    "A belief in hell and the knowledge that every ambition is doomed to frustration at the hands of a skeleton have never prevented the majority of human beings from behaving as though death were no more than an unfounded rumour."
    Aldous Huxley
  • Re: The poverty of the new atheism by Scott Stephens
     Reply #21 - August 31, 2011, 08:58 PM

     
  • Re: The poverty of the new atheism by Scott Stephens
     Reply #22 - August 31, 2011, 09:00 PM

    Nietzsche wasn't an arrogant prick? Cheesy He wrote a whole book called Why I am So Wise. Cheesy


    you know what i mean, he wasn't a midget in thought, he could go to the deep end or even the bottom of the ocean in a single breath. btw there is a difference between arrogance and the will to power and loving yourself up a bit  Smiley


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ayNxG8iQT8

    you would like this  dance

    "A belief in hell and the knowledge that every ambition is doomed to frustration at the hands of a skeleton have never prevented the majority of human beings from behaving as though death were no more than an unfounded rumour."
    Aldous Huxley
  • Re: The poverty of the new atheism by Scott Stephens
     Reply #23 - August 31, 2011, 09:12 PM

    Nietzsche wasn't an arrogant prick? Cheesy He wrote an essay called Why I am So Wise, an essay called Why I am So Clever, and another called Why I Write Such Good Books. Cheesy



    "A belief in hell and the knowledge that every ambition is doomed to frustration at the hands of a skeleton have never prevented the majority of human beings from behaving as though death were no more than an unfounded rumour."
    Aldous Huxley
  • Re: The poverty of the new atheism by Scott Stephens
     Reply #24 - August 31, 2011, 09:19 PM

    yeah i will because some fuckhead called strangestdude who thinks his inner spirit is a little pussycat  told me i was wrong and that i should accept it. No wonder new atheism is a fad, care to give me a reason. strangestdud the article applies to you more then anyone, it touches upon issues of spiritualism within capitalism and how poor delusional monkeys such yourself have a need to find some sort of abstract myth to hold onto ergo replacing deism, i hope you don't call yourself a atheist   

     
    Crybaby.
  • Re: The poverty of the new atheism by Scott Stephens
     Reply #25 - August 31, 2011, 10:03 PM

    The problem with the new atheists is that they're modernists; they still seek absolute truth. They've abandoned God and replaced him with science, and they want to force everyone into their point of view.

    Nietzsche nailed it with his parable of the madman. What a lot of people don't get is that when he proclaimed "God is dead" he didn't mean the literal God, he meant objective values. He was actually addressing the atheists.


    thing is modernism stems from its conversation with post-modernism and modernism facilitated post modernism - weird
    its because the modernist of the past where able to engage with the idea of there being no objective truth, where they where able to come up with a stable systems of objectivity but new atheist simply cant comprehend the idea. They are like the average theist who just cant conceive of there being no god whereas the theist (theologians)of the past (who even atheists respect for there intellectual prowess) could engage with such an argument, they could start of with the position that there is no god and come to a conclusion that there is.The new atheist personify capitalist consumerism where they consume a idea that is being fed to them. Ex-muslim are in a vulnerable position in their vulnerability they have eaten up new atheism and simply cannot comprehend the idea of there being no objective truth. Whats concerning is that the very tool (dialectics) of reason that old atheist and modernist used has degraded to the point of going extinct and this leaves us in a terrible position. I presented a a post-modern argument in my other thread taking into account the use of language, the new atheists just couldn't understand the argument. Its like they have 2d vision, they seem to view religion as something 2d as well as you might have noticed from the responses in this thread , taking the piss out of religion or simply bashing it .

    "A belief in hell and the knowledge that every ambition is doomed to frustration at the hands of a skeleton have never prevented the majority of human beings from behaving as though death were no more than an unfounded rumour."
    Aldous Huxley
  • Re: The poverty of the new atheism by Scott Stephens
     Reply #26 - August 31, 2011, 10:19 PM



    Lol, best response to a Lucem Ferre thread that I've seen.

     Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy

    how fuck works without shit??


    Let's Play Chess!

    harakaat, friend, RIP
  • Re: The poverty of the new atheism by Scott Stephens
     Reply #27 - August 31, 2011, 10:41 PM



    Cheesy

    Formerly known as Iblis
  • Re: The poverty of the new atheism by Scott Stephens
     Reply #28 - August 31, 2011, 10:49 PM


    OK, atheists without humility are bad.

    Requisite amount and categorisation of humility to be decided by believers, or else bad atheists.


    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: The poverty of the new atheism by Scott Stephens
     Reply #29 - August 31, 2011, 10:58 PM

    billy this has nothing to do with humility - how can you miss the mark so badly ?

    "A belief in hell and the knowledge that every ambition is doomed to frustration at the hands of a skeleton have never prevented the majority of human beings from behaving as though death were no more than an unfounded rumour."
    Aldous Huxley
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