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 Topic: Treatment of Parents/Elders before and after Islam

 (Read 7493 times)
  • 12 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Treatment of Parents/Elders before and after Islam
     OP - October 21, 2011, 01:02 AM
    One of the things I always found nice about Islamic cultures are the way they promote caring and respect for parents and elders. Hence this is one of the issues in which I maintain a rather Islamic outlook.

    Anyway, have any of your feelings about familial relationships changed since you left Islam? How many of you are/were willing to care for your parents/grandparents etc. in their old age?
    Quote from: yeezevee on February 11, 2016, 02:05 PM
    how fuck works without shit??


    Let's Play Chess!

    harakaat, friend, RIP
  • Re: Treatment of Parents/Elders before and after Islam
     Reply #1 - October 21, 2011, 09:13 AM
    Actually my views on the subject have changed in a positive way. I used to see caring my parents as a duty, something that, if done badly, would lend me in trouble with the Big Man. Now I just feel that it's something I want to do, because I love them, not necessarily because I owe it to them.

    As for grandparents, been there, done that (would change my grandmother's diapers until she died right before my eyes) but given the choice, I wouldn't have. A grandchild shouldn't have to do that. It scarred me for life.
    He's no friend to the friendless
    And he's the mother of grief
    There's only sorrow for tomorrow
    Surely life is too brief
  • Re: Treatment of Parents/Elders before and after Islam
     Reply #2 - October 21, 2011, 09:22 AM
    Quote from: Naerys on October 21, 2011, 09:13 AM
    ................................
    As for grandparents, been there, done that (would change my grandmother's diapers until she died right before my eyes) but given the choice, I wouldn't have. A grandchild shouldn't have to do that. It scarred me for life.




    You are Jinn.. you are Ghost.. you are an Angel.,   I don't want my grandchild to change diapers of his/her grandmother/father(I know how to leave this planet when I am healthy) BUT I WANT A GRAND CHILD LIKE YOU... if I  have children and grandchildren...

    Let me send a note to Allah on that., If Allah rejects my request, I am going to kill him..

    with best wishes
    yeezevee
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Re: Treatment of Parents/Elders before and after Islam
     Reply #3 - October 21, 2011, 09:32 AM
    Aww <3
    He's no friend to the friendless
    And he's the mother of grief
    There's only sorrow for tomorrow
    Surely life is too brief
  • Re: Treatment of Parents/Elders before and after Islam
     Reply #4 - October 21, 2011, 01:41 PM
    Quote from: asbdsp on October 21, 2011, 01:02 AM
    Hence this is one of the issues in which I maintain a rather Islamic outlook.


    There's nothing specifically 'Islamic' about it. Its a feature of Asiatic / African / Southern European culture. From Japan to India across Africa, into the Levant and to the Mediterranean. A family orientated strongly patriarchal / and matriarchal culture rooted in the priveliging of the extended clan that lays great emphasis on reverence for elders. And along this broad geography, lie Buddhists, Hindus, Christians, Animists and myriad other religious / belief systems.

    I know you're not intending to do it, but many Muslims make amazing exclusivist claims for what Islam achieves and is responsible for.

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Treatment of Parents/Elders before and after Islam
     Reply #5 - October 21, 2011, 01:59 PM
    why should taking care of, and honoring your elders change?
    Just because you are no longer muslim, if you have a good
    relationship with them, and are up to the challenge, whats
    the problem?

    One thing I found so refreshing after leaving islam is that
    I could still be a good person, be compassionate, etc,
    without having to think about or become jaded of any
    obligations.  You do something good because you WANT
    to, not because you HAVE to, or stop and count how many
    friggin jannah points you get by doing it.  You do something
    good and right because its the right thing to do, not because
    you have heaven and hell hanging on every act.
    When one door of happiness closes, another opens; but often we look so long at the closed door that we do not see the one which has been opened for us.
    Helen Keller
  • Re: Treatment of Parents/Elders before and after Islam
     Reply #6 - October 21, 2011, 03:12 PM
    This is more of a cultural thing which dates back pre Islam. Islam needs to stop making claims about things it just gathered from other places and wrote out.
    ***~Church is where bad people go to hide~***
  • Re: Treatment of Parents/Elders before and after Islam
     Reply #7 - October 24, 2011, 01:05 AM
    Quote from: billy on October 21, 2011, 01:41 PM

    I know you're not intending to do it, but many Muslims make amazing exclusivist claims for what Islam achieves and is responsible for.




    Yeah, I only called it Islamic because it is also rooted in Islamic religious dogma, but point well taken.  Wink
    Quote from: yeezevee on February 11, 2016, 02:05 PM
    how fuck works without shit??


    Let's Play Chess!

    harakaat, friend, RIP
  • Re: Treatment of Parents/Elders before and after Islam
     Reply #8 - October 24, 2011, 02:21 AM
    Just want to ask. How many of you are going to have your parents live with you when they are retired instead of putting them in a retirement home.(assuming they are too old to work and need someone to take care of them)

    I personally would like to have them live with me when they are retired.( After getting through all the drama of telling them i am an atheist) because when you realize that you only have one life parents become more special.  far away hug

    Even if they try to cut off relations with you for being an apostate i still think that as ex muslim atheists we should maintain good relationships with them to remove the "evil kafir" stereo type imams and mullas portray atheists as. This will also remove the taboo associated with renouncing islam which is one of the goals of this council
    In my opinion a life without curiosity is not a life worth living
  • Re: Treatment of Parents/Elders before and after Islam
     Reply #9 - October 24, 2011, 03:54 AM
    Yeah I plan to share in taking care of my parents/hypothetical partner's parents with my siblings. This is of course if my parents are willing to enter into my life as I have chosen to conceive of it, and they don't insist on trying to impose their moral guidelines for life on me. I guess that makes me a hypothetically bad son.  Roll Eyes
    Quote from: yeezevee on February 11, 2016, 02:05 PM
    how fuck works without shit??


    Let's Play Chess!

    harakaat, friend, RIP
  • Re: Treatment of Parents/Elders before and after Islam
     Reply #10 - October 24, 2011, 11:34 AM
    I treat my parents the same, I think I'm slightly more rebellious now than I was during my religious period.


    Quote from: billy on October 21, 2011, 01:41 PM
    There's nothing specifically 'Islamic' about it. Its a feature of Asiatic / African / Southern European culture. From Japan to India across Africa, into the Levant and to the Mediterranean. A family orientated strongly patriarchal / and matriarchal culture rooted in the priveliging of the extended clan that lays great emphasis on reverence for elders. And along this broad geography, lie Buddhists, Hindus, Christians, Animists and myriad other religious / belief systems.

    I know you're not intending to do it, but many Muslims make amazing exclusivist claims for what Islam achieves and is responsible for.



    True, but Islam makes such things an obligation on a believer. There's a difference between someone who believes they're commanded by their god to act in such a way and someone who does it because its the traditional thing to do.
  • Re: Treatment of Parents/Elders before and after Islam
     Reply #11 - October 24, 2011, 12:20 PM
    Quote
    There's a difference between someone who believes they're commanded by their god to act in such a way and someone who does it because its the traditional thing to do.


    Thats an interesting way of looking at it.

    What exactly is the difference?

    To me, making something that you're supposed to do, and that is done by billions of people anyway, of all religions and none, an obligation unto a certain God, is superfluous self righteousness. Trying to claim extra points, for things that people do because of the natural bonds of humanity, family and culture.

    Also, if you look after your parents and elderly primarily because Islam tells you that you have to, you've relegated the natural instinctual state of humanity to a code enforced by Islam.
    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Treatment of Parents/Elders before and after Islam
     Reply #12 - October 24, 2011, 12:35 PM
    Quote from: Aphrodite on October 24, 2011, 11:34 AM
    True, but Islam makes such things an obligation on a believer. There's a difference between someone who believes they're commanded by their god to act in such a way

    Not exactly an example of a moral conduct, is it? Doing something because one is scared of brutal reprisals from the chief psychopath.
    This is the very definition of a behaviour that is anything but intrinsically moral.

    Quote from: Aphrodite on October 24, 2011, 11:34 AM
    and someone who does it because its the traditional thing to do.

    People do that sort of thing 'because its the traditional thing to do'?
    Meaning they wouldn't help their parents in need in case this accidentally happened not to be a 'tradition'?


    What about those who would help their elderly parents simply because its the right thing to do? You know - atheist moral stance and all that.
  • Re: Treatment of Parents/Elders before and after Islam
     Reply #13 - October 24, 2011, 01:22 PM
    Quote from: billy on October 24, 2011, 12:20 PM
    What exactly is the difference?


    The difference is a person can shun 'tradition' quite easily but its a lot harder to disobey Allah.

    Quote from: billy on October 24, 2011, 12:20 PM
    To me, making something that you're supposed to do, and that is done by billions of people anyway, of all religions and none, an obligation unto a certain God, is superfluous self righteousness. Trying to claim extra points, for things that people do because of the natural bonds of humanity, family and culture.


    Agreed. Never liked the boastful muslims who basically say shit like "oh look how great our deen is" I mean  what happened to modesty ?  whistling2

    Quote from: billy on October 24, 2011, 12:20 PM
    Also, if you look after your parents and elderly primarily because Islam tells you that you have to, you've relegated the natural instinctual state of humanity to a code enforced by Islam.


    That is what Islam does :/ Its all about how you think Allah wants you to behave.   You're taught to love, hate, fight, etc. for the sake of Allah  Roll Eyes You can see that in muslims; the ones who think Islam is all about love and that is what Allah wants (sufi type) and the ones who have hatred of the "kuffar" and their "way of life" -- the Anjem salafi type.  
  • Re: Treatment of Parents/Elders before and after Islam
     Reply #14 - October 24, 2011, 01:26 PM
    Quote from: Kenan on October 24, 2011, 12:35 PM
    People do that sort of thing 'because its the traditional thing to do'?
    Meaning they wouldn't help their parents in need in case this accidentally happened not to be a 'tradition'?

    What about those who would help their elderly parents simply because its the right thing to do? You know - atheist moral stance and all that.



    Yes, I know a lot of desis who would just love to shove their elderly parents into care homes but don't because they don't want their 'honour' amongst the society ruined or whatever.  Some may do it for the right reasons, I was just saying some don't.
  • Re: Treatment of Parents/Elders before and after Islam
     Reply #15 - October 24, 2011, 01:28 PM
    Quote
    The difference is a person can shun 'tradition' quite easily but its a lot harder to disobey Allah.


    Benign traditions in any society persist naturally - and things like this are rooted in a basic human instinct anyway, to care for your parents and elderly. The perverse effect of making everything contingent on Allah's grace is that non benign traditions get frozen and a society becomes paralysed through fear and inhibition to question things.
    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Treatment of Parents/Elders before and after Islam
     Reply #16 - October 24, 2011, 02:31 PM
    i'm in many ways culturally a muslim. i was raised a muslim arab and it's part of who i am. i'm very westernized, but i don't deny my heritage. i think people who drop their culture entirely and just replace it with white culture are pawns of cultural imperialism.
  • Re: Treatment of Parents/Elders before and after Islam
     Reply #17 - October 24, 2011, 02:41 PM
    Your very rhetoric is a pawn of cultural imperialism.
  • Re: Treatment of Parents/Elders before and after Islam
     Reply #18 - October 24, 2011, 02:43 PM
     Roll Eyes
  • Re: Treatment of Parents/Elders before and after Islam
     Reply #19 - October 24, 2011, 02:44 PM
    I appreciate them more now.... knowing that this is probably the only life we will have together. Cry Cry Cry
  • Re: Treatment of Parents/Elders before and after Islam
     Reply #20 - October 24, 2011, 02:46 PM
    Quote from: Abood on October 24, 2011, 02:31 PM
    i'm in many ways culturally a muslim. i was raised a muslim arab and it's part of who i am. i'm very westernized, but i don't deny my heritage. i think people who drop their culture entirely and just replace it with white culture are pawns of cultural imperialism.


    What is white culture?

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Treatment of Parents/Elders before and after Islam
     Reply #21 - October 24, 2011, 02:51 PM
    Quote from: Abood on October 24, 2011, 02:43 PM
    Roll Eyes

    I am not joking.

    You read Zizek, right?

    The way you have laid out your previous post is typical of European political legacy - that of Enlightenment. Hence you have succumbed to the thing you claim to despise - cultural imperialism.

    Not to mention the fact that you have completely essentialised a whole culture simply based on race/skin colour as if there is such a thing as a homogeneous 'white' culture. Far too simplistic to say the least.

    The very thing that I like the most about Liberalism (despite it's many shortcomings) is that is completely anti-essentialist.

  • Re: Treatment of Parents/Elders before and after Islam
     Reply #22 - October 24, 2011, 03:01 PM
    yes, i know what you were saying. but it's very ironic that people are willing to point out that using the term "white culture" is essentialist, yet completely ignoring doing the same for "arab" and "muslim" culture. in your criticism of my supposed essentialism you've asserted another essentialism, that of the Other. the Other is always seen as a group, whereas the dominant is an individual.

    i'm very much a post-structuralist and anti-essentialist, which is precisely why i believe in a mix of different cultures, rather than having them as existing in a mutually exclusive dichotomy. when i say "replace" i mean dropping one culture entirely and taking up another as a whole. doing that is reinforcing essentialism.
  • Re: Treatment of Parents/Elders before and after Islam
     Reply #23 - October 24, 2011, 03:04 PM

    But what do you mean by 'white culture'? I'm interested.

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Treatment of Parents/Elders before and after Islam
     Reply #24 - October 24, 2011, 03:19 PM
    it's not what i mean, it's what people become when they drop their upbringing whole and assimilate into the western, dominant culture, and people do it in different ways.

    it's very telling that a lot of people here are trying to argue themselves out of admitting they still have aspects of islam within them. "oh, but it's not originally from islam", "oh, but i don't do it because of islam". it's as if islam is satan manifest and you want nothing to do with it. if you grew up a muslim, you will always retain a part of islamic culture within you, and that's not necessarily a bad thing. live with it.
  • Re: Treatment of Parents/Elders before and after Islam
     Reply #25 - October 24, 2011, 03:26 PM
    Quote
    it's not what i mean, it's what people become when they drop their upbringing whole and assimilate into the western, dominant culture, and people do it in different ways.


    People become 'white culture'? Sounds strange.

    Also sounds like a re-tread of race / culture betrayal, self-loathing / Uncle Tom / coconut accusations.

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Treatment of Parents/Elders before and after Islam
     Reply #26 - October 24, 2011, 03:28 PM
    Quote
    i'm very much a post-structuralist and anti-essentialist, which is precisely why i believe in a mix of different cultures, rather than having them as existing in a mutually exclusive dichotomy. when i say "replace" i mean dropping one culture entirely and taking up another as a whole. doing that is reinforcing essentialism.

  • Re: Treatment of Parents/Elders before and after Islam
     Reply #27 - October 24, 2011, 03:38 PM

    I think people here are exceptionally balanced and in so many ways personify the cosmopolitan identity so well.

     
    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Treatment of Parents/Elders before and after Islam
     Reply #28 - October 24, 2011, 03:40 PM
    many are, undoubtedly. yes.
  • Re: Treatment of Parents/Elders before and after Islam
     Reply #29 - October 24, 2011, 03:51 PM
    As a Muslim, I was an irreverent bastard of a son, as an ex-Muslim, I am still an irreverent bastard of a son.
    قل للمليحة في الخمار الأسود
    مـاذا فـعــلت بــناسـك مـتـعـبد

    قـد كـان شـمّر لــلـصلاة ثـيابه
    حتى خـطرت له بباب المسجد

    ردي عليـه صـلاتـه وصيـامــه
    لا تـقــتـلــيه بـحـق ديــن محمد
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