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 Topic: It's not Islam....

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  • Re: It's not Islam....
     Reply #30 - November 19, 2011, 07:05 PM
    Quote from: devilsadvokat on November 19, 2011, 07:01 PM
    Posthuman

    I am also a muslim athiest.


    Welcome brother. See you at the mosque, where we'll walk right by, and into the pub.
    Before Jesus was, I AM.
  • Re: It's not Islam....
     Reply #31 - November 19, 2011, 07:19 PM
    Salaam, shalom, hello Posthuman

    I have often wondered why posters on this forum like me and yourself and quite a few others who when making their profile on this board and given the choice to state whether they are ex-muslims or members, choose to be represented by the legend 'member' rather than 'ex-muslim'. Even though by our posts we are definately and defiantly non-believers in God/religion/islam etc.

    Some forum participants are comfortable with using ex-muslim, others not so, including me.

    What could be the reasons for this.

    I am my own worst enemy and best friend, itsa bit of a squeeze in a three-quarter bed, tho. Unhinged!? If I was a dog I would be having kittens, that is unhinged. Footloose n fancy free, forced to fit, fated to fly. One or 2 words, 3 and 3/thirds, looking comely but lonely, till I made them homely.D
  • Re: It's not Islam....
     Reply #32 - November 19, 2011, 07:43 PM
    I think it has to do with whether or not our rejection of religion has anything to do with negative personal experiences with family/friends/relatives etc.

    For those for whom it's purely intellectual there's less of a desire to do so.

    It's also why people sometimes use words like Bright, Skeptic, Rationalist instead of atheist. The connotations of names that suggest rejection or negation are instantly recognizable as such. I don't want to live with a title that says what I am not, but rather what I am. An ex-Muslim could be anything, so can an atheist, scientologists are atheists. wacko And they have a lot of douchebags. Buddhists can be atheists, yet irrational nonetheless.

    Muslim atheist, sounds like it begs a lot of questions to find out what you are. Everyone however knows what an ex-Muslim is. I kind of dislike people who make careers out of what they are not, like Ayaan Hirsi Ali, her job = not being Muslim. Well done. Afro A bit like Obama getting a Nobel prize for NOT being George W Bush. I could have done that!  finmad
    Before Jesus was, I AM.
  • Re: It's not Islam....
     Reply #33 - November 20, 2011, 12:56 AM
    Quote
    I think it has to do with whether or not our rejection of religion has anything to do with negative personal experiences with family/friends/relatives etc.

    For those for whom it's purely intellectual there's less of a desire to do so.


    And perhaps some hate being brown.
    I am my own worst enemy and best friend, itsa bit of a squeeze in a three-quarter bed, tho. Unhinged!? If I was a dog I would be having kittens, that is unhinged. Footloose n fancy free, forced to fit, fated to fly. One or 2 words, 3 and 3/thirds, looking comely but lonely, till I made them homely.D
  • Re: It's not Islam....
     Reply #34 - November 21, 2011, 05:44 AM
    Quote from: truth_seeker
    What I'm saying is everyone has the right to believe in anything they want. If somebody wants to believe that Allah is the Moon god and had three daughters. then that's their business. If they want to believe that Islam permits you to go have wild sex parties, eat pork, drink beer, and being gay, then that's their business. They have the right to believe whatever they want.

    But these Muslims need to understand that whatever bid'ah version of Islam they believe in is NOT the true Islam. The REAL Islam is as written in the Islamic scriptures. If it's not in the scriptures or goes against the scriptures, then it is NOT Real Islam.


    In other words they "need" to be told that their "gay friendly" Islam is NOT "real Islam" even if they have convinced themselves that it is. I can't see any other interpretation in what you are saying. Which means that Hassan Radwan is wrong in asserting:
    Quote
    Regardless of how you or I wish to define Islam – it is not up to us but those who call themselves Muslims.

     


    Quote
    And what I hate about that writer in the Guardian is that despite saying that there is no earthly punishment in the Quran, he seems to have forgotten to include the many vehement remarks and curses Allah has for apostates in the Quran, as well as the infernal punishments in hell. He also seems to have forgotten to include the bunch of Hadiths that call for death for apostasy. He also apparently forgot to mention the massacre of apostates by the hands of Abu Bakar during the Ridda conflict. And he apparently forgot to mention that the death penalty is prescribe by all four of the major sunni schools of jurispudence. He intentional used misinformation in order to trick naive liberal westerners and non-muslims that the barbaric act of killing apostates is "not REAL Islam". This is kind of dishonesty is completely disgusting.


    That's right he refers to the hadith when it suits him. Typical tactic of the taqiyya practitioner - which concept many here scornfully dismiss as the paranoid imaginings of "bigots" and "phobes".
    The mosque: the most epic display of collective douchbaggery, arrogance and delusion
  • Re: It's not Islam....
     Reply #35 - November 21, 2011, 05:48 AM
    Quote from: neale
    On what authority does the gay friendly muslim base their claim?


    According to Hassan Radwan and his supporters the "gay friendly muslim" does not have to justify his/her "version" of Islam on ANY grounds to you, me, Allah or anyone else. Isn't that right HR?
    The mosque: the most epic display of collective douchbaggery, arrogance and delusion
  • Re: It's not Islam....
     Reply #36 - November 21, 2011, 05:49 AM
    Quote from: devilsadvokat on November 19, 2011, 07:01 PM
    Posthuman

    I am also a muslim athiest.


    I'd be interested to know why you cling to your "Muslim" identity.
    The mosque: the most epic display of collective douchbaggery, arrogance and delusion
  • Re: It's not Islam....
     Reply #37 - November 21, 2011, 06:32 AM
    Quote from: posthuman
    I kind of dislike people who make careers out of what they are not, like Ayaan Hirsi Ali, her job = not being Muslim. Well done. Afro A bit like Obama getting a Nobel prize for NOT being George W Bush. I could have done that! 


     Cheesy Cheesy Good point! Afro


    The World is my country, all mankind are my brethren, and to do good is my religion.
                                   Thomas Paine

    Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored !- Aldous Huxley
  • Re: It's not Islam....
     Reply #38 - November 21, 2011, 06:54 AM
    Quote from: posthuman
    Muhammad hijacked Judaism, I'm hijacking Islam.


     Cheesy Cheesy Which brand of coffee did you have?


    The World is my country, all mankind are my brethren, and to do good is my religion.
                                   Thomas Paine

    Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored !- Aldous Huxley
  • Re: It's not Islam....
     Reply #39 - November 21, 2011, 06:16 PM


    I think it would be helpful to define what Islam is and what a Muslim is. If you are of the opinion that Islam is whatever you want it to be, the the word "Islam" becomes meaningless. After all, words are useful only because they do a job of identification for things, actions, people and emotions. If I define myself as a "person" it doesn't do a very descriptice job apart from stating the obvious. I define myself as a "mountaineer" for example, that word does a definite descriptive job. If I had never climbed a mountain and never intended to the description would be false. If we re-define the word "mountaineer" to make it conform to my current non mountain climbing lifestyle, what then? Difininging it as anything else other than a person who climbs mountains renders the word to be utterly meaningless. Why should the word "Muslim" be any different?

    Can a Muslim still be a Muslim and eat pork, drink alcohol, neglect to pray or ever go to a Mosque, fail to fast during rammadan, never go on Hajj, be openly homosexual, think that some of what Mohammad said was utter nonsense, disagree with Sharia as being gods law, openly criticize the Koran or doubt its authenticity? When does a Muslim stop being a Muslim; when the Muslim stops self defining as a Muslim? This is clearly wrong.

    Can Islam be anything other that what it defines itself to be? I realise that words can change their meaning and evolve over time, but Islam is a ridgid dogma and until it defines itself as otherwise (which is impossible) it cannot be said to mean anything else. The word "Muslim" is not a catch all term, it is for identifying a specific person with a specific set of beliefs. If you stray from the path of a non-evolving rigid dogma then you should heve the courage to call a spade a spade.

    I really can't see a way out of this dilemma.



    "Happy happy, joy joy!" Stimpson J Cat.
  • Re: It's not Islam....
     Reply #40 - November 21, 2011, 08:56 PM
    Quote from: DH on November 21, 2011, 05:49 AM
    I'd be interested to know why you cling to your "Muslim" identity.


    Because of the helmets, and the turbans.
    Before Jesus was, I AM.
  • Re: It's not Islam....
     Reply #41 - November 21, 2011, 08:58 PM
    Quote from: hypocrucifier on November 21, 2011, 06:54 AM
    Cheesy Cheesy Which brand of coffee did you have?


    Tesco value range that costs 46p.
    Before Jesus was, I AM.
  • Re: It's not Islam....
     Reply #42 - November 22, 2011, 01:48 AM
    Quote from: DH on November 21, 2011, 05:49 AM
    I'd be interested to know why you cling to your "Muslim" identity.


    Cling? I'm circumcised with a brown skin. Muslim athiest wouldn't be the first thing that would come to mind as an identity, british pakistani, or britpak. The only muslim aspect of me is cultural, i wash my arse using a lota(paper first lol), I don't eat pork, have a drink about four times a year, dont gamble, keep fasts (only the eating aspect, have to have a crafty fag), but read friday and eid prayers. But I dont believe in the divinity of Islam, or any supernatural being.

    My belief in evolution overrides all of that. But the sneaking feeling that evolution has inbuilt morality perhaps leads me to believe that there is something about 'not fucking out of place'.
    I am my own worst enemy and best friend, itsa bit of a squeeze in a three-quarter bed, tho. Unhinged!? If I was a dog I would be having kittens, that is unhinged. Footloose n fancy free, forced to fit, fated to fly. One or 2 words, 3 and 3/thirds, looking comely but lonely, till I made them homely.D
  • Re: It's not Islam....
     Reply #43 - November 22, 2011, 06:57 AM
    Quote from: post human
    Because of the helmets, and the turbans.


    I'm sure you know all about men in turbans and their helmets!
    The mosque: the most epic display of collective douchbaggery, arrogance and delusion
  • Re: It's not Islam....
     Reply #44 - November 22, 2011, 08:15 AM


    This helmet is more valuable to mankind than you will ever be.
    Before Jesus was, I AM.
  • Re: It's not Islam....
     Reply #45 - November 23, 2011, 05:47 AM
    Nice. Continues a tradition of ornate helmet ornamentation that goes WAY BACK before Islam:



    The mosque: the most epic display of collective douchbaggery, arrogance and delusion
  • Re: It's not Islam....
     Reply #46 - November 23, 2011, 05:48 AM
    Quote from: devilsadvokat on November 22, 2011, 01:48 AM
    Cling? I'm circumcised with a brown skin. Muslim athiest wouldn't be the first thing that would come to mind as an identity, british pakistani, or britpak. The only muslim aspect of me is cultural, i wash my arse using a lota(paper first lol), I don't eat pork, have a drink about four times a year, dont gamble, keep fasts (only the eating aspect, have to have a crafty fag), but read friday and eid prayers. But I dont believe in the divinity of Islam, or any supernatural being.

    My belief in evolution overrides all of that. But the sneaking feeling that evolution has inbuilt morality perhaps leads me to believe that there is something about 'not fucking out of place'.



    So why do you still call yourself a "Muslim"?
    The mosque: the most epic display of collective douchbaggery, arrogance and delusion
  • Re: It's not Islam....
     Reply #47 - November 23, 2011, 06:06 AM
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MwoMcN-YyVM

    In AD 802 Nicephorus usurped the throne of the Eastern Empire. He sent ambassadors with a letter to Harun to tell him that the tribute would no longer be paid. The letter contained these words:

        "The weak and faint-hearted Irene submitted to pay you tribute. She ought to have made you pay tribute to her. Return to me all that she paid you; else the matter must be settled by the sword."

    As soon as Harun had read these words the ambassadors threw a bundle of swords at his feet. The caliph smiled, and drawing his own sword, or scimitar, he cut the Roman swords in two with one stroke without injuring the blade, or even turning the edge of his weapon.

    Then he dictated a letter to Nicephorus, in which he said:

        "Harun-al-Rashid, Commander of the Faithful to Nicephorus, the Roman dog: I have read thy letter. Thou shalt not hear, thou shalt see my reply."

    Harun was as good as his word. He started that day with a large army to punish the emperor.
    ------------------------------

    Pwnage, must be respected. Especially when wearing the sexy helmets.


    Before Jesus was, I AM.
  • Re: It's not Islam....
     Reply #48 - November 23, 2011, 06:19 AM
    Quote from: DH on November 23, 2011, 05:47 AM
    Nice. Continues a tradition of ornate helmet ornamentation that goes WAY BACK before Islam:

    (Clicky for piccy!)




    I would say....that is Celtic. And since I was born in Scotland, that is mine too. All your helmets are belong to us.  Crystal Ball

    Before Jesus was, I AM.
  • Re: It's not Islam....
     Reply #49 - November 23, 2011, 02:30 PM




    Errr....That's not a Celtic helmet.

    Far too eastern looking.


    "Happy happy, joy joy!" Stimpson J Cat.
  • Re: It's not Islam....
     Reply #50 - November 23, 2011, 03:28 PM
    It looks persian to me. They had some pretty awesome decorative armours
    I've been driven mad trying to prove my sanity
  • Re: It's not Islam....
     Reply #51 - November 23, 2011, 04:06 PM
    DH wouldn't choose an Eastern helmet.

    The Celtic bronze craftsmanship was sufficietly complex, to make the above.
    Before Jesus was, I AM.
  • Re: It's not Islam....
     Reply #52 - November 23, 2011, 07:34 PM
    Postman is right, it's celtic.
  • Re: It's not Islam....
     Reply #53 - November 23, 2011, 07:57 PM

    It's not Scottish, that's for sure.

    The Scotts were still eating each other when that was made.


    "Happy happy, joy joy!" Stimpson J Cat.
  • Re: It's not Islam....
     Reply #54 - November 23, 2011, 08:44 PM
    Yeah it was found in what was Gaul.
  • Re: It's not Islam....
     Reply #55 - November 23, 2011, 08:59 PM
    Quote
    It's not Scottish, that's for sure.

    The Scotts were still eating each other when that was made.


     MSinghK SLOBLOCK!






    Before Jesus was, I AM.
  • Re: It's not Islam....
     Reply #56 - November 24, 2011, 07:33 AM
    Quote from: Mr Sanity on November 23, 2011, 03:28 PM
    It looks persian to me. They had some pretty awesome decorative armours


    Celtic craftsmen were strongly influenced by Persian art.
    The mosque: the most epic display of collective douchbaggery, arrogance and delusion
  • Re: It's not Islam....
     Reply #57 - November 24, 2011, 08:47 AM
    Quote from: Prince Spinoza on November 23, 2011, 07:34 PM
    Postman is right, it's celtic.


     turnipovich

    Before Jesus was, I AM.
  • Re: It's not Islam....
     Reply #58 - November 24, 2011, 03:49 PM
    Quote from: DH on November 21, 2011, 05:49 AM
    I'd be interested to know why you cling to your "Muslim" identity.


    I thought I answered when I said I am brown and circumcised. I asked one of my closest, intellectual even, english friends (who knows my thoughts and practices) Why am I muslim? he said because you are brown. I suppose becoming a coconut was a bridge too far. I suppose everyone brown in the uk goes through a phase of being a coconut, being insecure in their own skin, some just stay there.

    Perhaps Bernard manning was onto something when he said something along the lines of - a dog born in a stable is not a horse.
    I am my own worst enemy and best friend, itsa bit of a squeeze in a three-quarter bed, tho. Unhinged!? If I was a dog I would be having kittens, that is unhinged. Footloose n fancy free, forced to fit, fated to fly. One or 2 words, 3 and 3/thirds, looking comely but lonely, till I made them homely.D
  • Re: It's not Islam....
     Reply #59 - November 24, 2011, 04:35 PM
    ^^^man that post stinks^^^
    "Happy happy, joy joy!" Stimpson J Cat.
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